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Quick question about SSD's

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December 5, 2009 9:42:34 PM

Hey everyone!

I'm planning on getting an SSD for my desktop PC and i have several questions. I did some research and browsed these forums but i did not find any satisfactory answers.


1. First of all i have a 650GB HDD, and i was wondering if i can run that side by side with an SSD? I wouldn't think it'll be a problem, but i figured i should make sure before i shell out some serious ca$h.

2. If i do decide to buy the SSD, do you have any recommendations as to for which interface i should buy it for? After some research it seems as if the two most popular interfaces are PCIe and SATA

As a side note, if it turns out to be SATA, where exactly am i supposed to put that SSD? I know its a stupid question (i can hear you guys laughing! :non:  ) but those SSD's look waaaay too small to fit into any of my drive bays.


This site actually helped me in building my first computer several months ago, so i really appreciate you're guy's help.

Thanks in advance,

Clydefrog

More about : quick question ssd

December 5, 2009 9:59:38 PM

1. yes it will work
2. Dunno bout pcie but i know that some of the ssd come with 3.5 mounting rack things
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a b G Storage
December 5, 2009 10:48:49 PM

Pcie ones are crazy expensive, but offer a drop in solution to speeds beyond what the sata interface can do. However if you have the room in your case and still want those speeds I hear you can do just as well with a independent RAID controller and buying multiple SSD's.

SSD's in RAID cannot use TRIM. I haven't found an answer to this but I guess that means you'll have to wipe the drives and reinstall every 6-12 months depending on usage.

If your going to get a SSD I would recommend getting a good single one such as the intel g2 or the patriot torqx.
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December 6, 2009 4:21:15 AM

Yeah, after looking around on the net after i posting this, i realized the PCIe ones were really freaking expensive.

Also, i was thinking about setting up a RAID using some SSD's (probably RAID1 or RAID5) so knowing i cant use TRIM is very helpful; thanks for the heads up. If i do set up a RAID, i dont think that would be a problem though, since i usually reformat my hard drive every 12-18 months.

And thanks for the recommendations (intel g2 or the patriot torqx) i will defiantly look into those.

Thanks,

Clydefrog
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a b G Storage
December 6, 2009 5:18:24 AM

Hi, most SSD's in your price range will not ever be able to reach the speeds of SATA II. Therefore your SSD will be a drop in replacement in SATA II. Very highend and fast hard drives that can exceed the speeds of what SATA II can provide use PCI-E lanes for connection which provides much more bandwidth than SATA II. Now here are the answers for your questions:
-There will be no problem in running an SSD and an HDD side by side, you can't raid them ofcourse but running them together is fine. Infact most people buy an SSD for the OS/Applications and use an HDD for storage.

-In terms where you put the SSD...it doesn't matter, you can honestly just let lay down your case bottom. Since it has no moving parts, it can be any position and anywhere it won't matter for it. However most SSD's now come with rackets that you screw them into and then the racket w/ the SSD fits into a 3.5 inch standard drive bay with no problem.

-About not support trim...here is the thing. If you do lots of writes and deletes which includes installing and reinstalling apps, transfering data and use programs that mess with files than by 12-18months you are going to be wishing you had a HDD. A single good SSD will give you lightning performance and Trim will keep it working like a spring chicken for a much longer time. Also I see since you are planning to use Raid 1 or 5, you are looking for Data safety not performance correct?...well in that case I would get a small 32GB SSD for solely your OS and then buy two fast HDD's to install your apps and keep your Data there.
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December 6, 2009 6:25:15 AM

blackhawk1928 said:
Infact most people buy an SSD for the OS/Applications and use an HDD for storage.


Yeah, thats what i was thinking about doing if i dont plan on investing in larger SSD's

blackhawk1928 said:
-About not support trim...here is the thing. If you do lots of writes and deletes which includes installing and reinstalling apps, transfering data and use programs that mess with files than by 12-18months you are going to be wishing you had a HDD.


Wait, why?

blackhawk1928 said:
Also I see since you are planning to use Raid 1 or 5, you are looking for Data safety not performance correct?...well in that case I would get a small 32GB SSD for solely your OS and then buy two fast HDD's to install your apps and keep your Data there.


Thats correct. Getting an SSD soley for my OS seems pretty logical. I might end up doing that. I wasnt going to set up the RAID or purchase the other SSD soon; setting up an SSD RAID was just something i was giving thought to in the future (after saving up some money for another SSD and RAID controller). However, seeing as how you recommend using the SSD for my OS (which was also my initial thought) i may just do that instead.

Thanks alot, this was very helpful!

Clydefrog

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a b G Storage
December 6, 2009 12:44:49 PM

Well I said that you will be wishing you had an HDD after 12-18 months, because SSD's cannot write over data. Basically, when you have an HDD and you delete a file, it actually isn't deleted, instead the OS just tricks the HDD into thinking and ignoring that data so therefore the next time it writes a a peice of information, it just writes over the previous data with no problem or performance affect. With an SSD it works differently. An SSD cannot write over other data like an HDD can and before a block in the SSD can be written to it must be fully whiped clean. Operating systems will treat the SSD as an HDD and will do the same trick of not deleting data until other data is written on top, but it doesn't work. Once the SSD runs out of clean blocks its going to start having to use older blocks so everytime it performs a write it needs pull the block into the cache, wipe it, than put it back and write to it which is very slow...very slow. Trim is a fix for this issue. What it does is basically once a file is deleted, it will take a couple seconds longer and Trim will wipe them clean and fresh while you delete so as to keep all your cells ready to go for fast writes. Thats why Trim is so important. You would much rather have to delete data longer than to take forever to write data longer.

And I wouldn't count on raiding the SSD if you buy them at different times, when you mean later down the road, there will probably be bigger and faster SSD's for a lower price and this specific model might not be available anymore or not support the latest and greatest as it does now. Depending on what you mean "down the road", it usually is best to buy them at once or not at all becuase it can be hard to find that part later.
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December 6, 2009 3:40:16 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
An SSD cannot write over other data like an HDD can and before a block in the SSD can be written to it must be fully whiped clean. Operating systems will treat the SSD as an HDD and will do the same trick of not deleting data until other data is written on top, but it doesn't work.


Oh wow. Thats really good to know! Thanks for telling me, otherwise i would have been SOL :lol: 

Also a quick question about TRIM. Is TRIM a program i need to purchase seperatly, is it built into the OS or does it come with the SSD?

blackhawk1928 said:
And I wouldn't count on raiding the SSD if you buy them at different times, when you mean later down the road, there will probably be bigger and faster SSD's for a lower price and this specific model might not be available anymore or not support the latest and greatest as it does now.


I suppose you're right. I dont have the money to get two or three SSD's right now at once so i guess ill just scrap the idea of RAIDing them. Instead ill just get a small SSD, like you suggested and put my OS on it, with my HDD being used to store my date. Any personal suggestions for a particular model SSD; perhaps ones you were satisfied with?

Thank you,

Clydefrog
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a b G Storage
December 6, 2009 3:56:10 PM

One more thing about RAID and TRIM: You can't use TRIM (yet) with RAID.

+1 for blackhawk. Well said.

My recommendation: Get a Intel X25-M G2 for $250 here: http://www.tankguys.com/intel-x-25m-80gb-solid-state-di...
for your OS. You may also want to look at the Kingston M series which uses the Intel controller: http://www.kingston.com/ukroot/ssd/m_series.asp
Usually, you can find the Kingston quit a bit cheaper than the X25-M G2. I'v seen the 80GB Kingston (M series) for sale for low as $150-170.
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a b G Storage
December 6, 2009 5:21:01 PM

If you buy an Intel SSD, you do not need to purchase Trim, it comes with the firmware updates for your SSD from the Intel website, its free and it actually is part of the SSD where the firmware is.
A personal suggestion for a model?...Intel X-25M 80GB, i had to learn a bit and was confused about all the differen't things it has and does and how to get everything right but now i got everything up and running and its probably the smartest purchase i made for my computer. Everything is 100x faster than an HDD, you can forget about stuttering, waiting for apps to open, taking a long boot time...etc. It will redefine your computer expirience forever. However 80GB is way to big for just the OS, you will be able to install your apps on it also. If you want one just for your OS than get a 20-40GB from another brand.
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a b G Storage
December 7, 2009 6:07:14 AM

I use the patriot torqx. I have 2 in my system in RAID 0. They use the indillex controller and support TRIM through windows 7 when not in RAID. I'm very happy with them.
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