4870x2 or GTX 280 SLI ?

[Guest]

Hello everyone! First time poster, long time reader.

I'm putting together a new dev / gaming rig fairly soon to replace an
aging P4 Northwood system and currently sussing out what components
will make up the system. Price is not too much of an issue, but i'm not going to throw
money at parts unless I can see some justifiable benefit from it. I'm looking to get the
best machine possible but within the bounds of reason, if you know what I mean.

Here's what im considering getting so far:

1000w PSU
Nforce 780i or Intel x48 motherboard depending on graphics card
Intel Q9550 2.87 Ghz - Plan to overclock it to 3.4 Ghz by raising FSB to 400 mhz
4GB DDR2 800 Mhz
Creative X-Fi sound card
1TB Barracuda HDD
Blu-ray and DVD-RAM Drives
24" LCD Monitor with 1920x1200 native resolution

I will be running Vista x64 on this machine also.

I'm in a bit of a pickle over what graphics card to get however and I'd be interested to hear
your thoughts about it. Basically I'm torn between getting the new 4870x2 and a dual GTX 280 setup.
I've considered a crossfire-x setup for the 4870x2 also but from what I've seen in the benchmarks it's either
a case of near zero gains in most cases, or even bad for performance in others- hence the reason I ruled this out.

I've drawn up a list of pros and cons for both options:

=== HD4870x2 - Pros ===

- Appears to be the fastest card in a lot of benchmarks
- Excels in image quality, does exceptionally well with anti-aliasing enabled
- Direct X 10.1 support
- Not tied to any particular motherboard platform (nforce/sli)
- Upcoming Havok GPGPU support ?

=== HD4870x2 - Cons ===

- Slower GPU cores, might not help so much in vertex limited scenes
- Performance and crossfire scaling higly dependant on crossfire profiles and driver optimisations
- Appears to be quite a bit hotter than a GTX 280

=== GTX280 SLI - Pros ===

- Fastest single GPU core available at the moment. May be more consistent in performance across
games with or without crossfire/sli profiles.
- GPGPU PhysX support. I'd say CUDA as well but ATI have their own API too so that's not really an
advantage, and OpenCL / DX11 will standardise this stuff too.
- SLI scaling appears to be quite good in most games, much more consistent than crossfire. Also
being able to choose the SLI method in the absence of a profile is an added advantage.

=== GTX280 SLI - Cons ===

- Higher overall power draw than a 4870x2 setup, need a bigger PSU
- Lacks DX 10.1 support
- Restricted to SLI compatible motherboard

I've probably been quite sloppy with this list so feel free to add to the pros/cons if you want. So what
do you think, should I go green or red ? Right now i'm leaning slighltly towards the 4870x2 setup, but
I haven't decided for sure..

Any thoughts ?

 

[dagger]

Does cost come into consideration at all? gtx280 sli will certain outperform a single 4870x2 by a large amount. But it also cost much more.

 

[lambofgode3x]

i'd honestly say getting the 4870x2 is good enough for your resolution.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Since the 4870x2 does as well and better in some games, and since it doesnt run hotter by that much, and when the G280 SLI wins, its not by much. Also, using nVidia chips have their own drawbacls, an sli mobo is premium cost, and everything bad on your list towards the 4870x2 would be the same for the SLI setup. Id actually look at the good review sites, see what theyve come up with. I dont mean dodgy sites that dont include AA or high res or slow clocked cpus, all these things contribute to the SLI setup, and take away from the x2. To clarify, the performance with sli isnt worth the cost ratio, and in many games the x2 does win out anyways, and at 19x12 itd be pointless for anything costing more, you wont ever see the difference, if there is any. Also, Id like to point out, ATI has commited itself to multi gpus for now and the future. Also, show me where CF scaling isnt at least on par with sli? Thats not what Ive seen. Just look at the 3870x2 to see what Im talking about, the improvements made there with that card

 

[invisik]

its a close one. In my opinion the gtx 280 sli and 4870x2 perform around the same at 1600x1200 resolution while the 4870x2 performance is slightly better i believe at 2560x1080. Both very good cards but i would have to go with the 4870x2. less power requirement and one single card so less heating issues. oh ya did i mention gtx280 will run u around 800$ while the 4870x2 is around 560-580$
Good Luck. =]

 

[Guest]

Does cost come into consideration at all? gtx280 sli will certain outperform a single 4870x2 by a large amount. But it also cost much more.

It does, but not to a large extent. I wont consider a tri-way SLI solution for instance because its very much a case of diminishing returns; likewise a quad-crossfire setup with the 4870x2 is just silly also.

 

[dagger]

its a close one. In my opinion the gtx 280 and 4870x2 perform around same in the 1600x1200 resolution while the 4870x2 performance is slightly better i believe at 2560x1080. Both very good cards but i would have to go with the 4870x2. less power requirement and one single card so less heating issues. oh ya did i mention gtx280 will run u around 800$ while the 4870x2 is around 560-580$
Good Luck. =]

That's wrong. 2 gtx280 in sli will outperform either single 4870x2 or 2 4870 in cf across the board, just in different amounts. The overall performance lead is big enough to overshadow any perks. The real reason against the former is cost. But hey, we're not Communists, if he's rich, good for him.

 

[invisik]

really they seem to beat each other here and there.
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3372&p=5
(grid , age of conan elder scrolls IV)

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Better look at Annandtech

 

[Guest]

But hey, we're not Communists, if he's rich, good for him.

I wish man.. :lol: Nah I've been running this P4 rig for 5 years now (can't believe its lasted this well) and I've decided
to treat myself with something beastly for a change. Next upgrade will probably be in 2012/2013 or thereabouts..

 

[Guest]

really they seem to beat each other here and there.
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3372&p=5
(grid , age of conan elder scrolls IV)

Yep.. Which makes things all the more confusing !

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

In my mind, the x2 will only get better, much like the 3870x2 has

 

[Guest]

In my mind, the x2 will only get better, much like the 3870x2 has

Good point- that's another thing to take into consideration as well. This argument is really starting to
look one sided so it is

 

[-Fran-]

IHMO, get 6 or 8Gb of RAM (Vista 64 sucks up big). I don't know bout the x48, but i'm sure 'bout the video card. Go for the 4870X2 (either in CF or single), since u're looking for a smart buy and not a fanboy/elitist-jerk buy, we all know that the 4870 is the card for the go. Well, Ati is getting better and better in a lot of ways, so it seems about right to give it a shot. There's a lot of room for the Catalyst drivers to get more juice from the 4870.

Also get a 1200W PSU (in case u might want to add a second 4870X2 in the short run and a lot of HDDs or who-knows-what-else =P) and go for a liquid solution since u're planning for a hardcore OC (wich means, a lot of heat). I don't have many details 'bout liquid solutions at hand, but i'm sure u can get a lot of references from around.

G'Luck with your build!

 

[invisik]

In my mind, the x2 will only get better, much like the 3870x2 has

+1
side port seems useful in the future.

1200w psu!!? overkill for one 4870x2 650w is enough and for cf i would recommend 850w.

 

[dagger]

really they seem to beat each other here and there.
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3372&p=5
(grid , age of conan elder scrolls IV)

Better look at Annandtech

I'm looking at it, but you should keep in mind, the significant lead of 4870x2 in Age of Conan is due to the game's perks, not the graphics card itself. It displays differently in ATI and Nvidia cards. See here:
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6192732/p-5.html

GRID is highly optimized for ATI cards and deliver much higher performance with it across the board compared to games on average, not only with the latest generation cards, but with older ones too. Ender Scrolls is similarily optimized, although not as much. Performance drops on high resolutions, despite x2's more ram, higher bus speed, and inherently better scaling of the high aa and af they used on that benchmark.

I can't help but feel those titles used in that benchmark is cheerypicked to mislead. Most of the titles they chose are not heavy enough in graphics to be typically used in benchmarking on other reviews. Yet they chose to use them, then bump up aa/af, which 4870 handles extremely well compared to others, to tank fps. Where is Call of Duty 4? Prey? Stalker? FEAR? Company of Heros? Supreme Commander? Or any number of heavier games typically used for benchmarks? Why the relatively light weight games?

It reeks of fanboyism. 4870x2 outperforms a single gtx280 by an average of 25%, as shown on countless benchmark reviews. How can it outperform a pair of gtx280 by the same 25%?

 

[Physicz]

=== HD4870x2 - Cons ===

- Slower GPU cores, might not help so much in vertex limited scenes
- Performance and crossfire scaling higly dependant on crossfire profiles and driver optimisations
- Appears to be quite a bit hotter than a GTX 280

the hell you talking about the cores are clocked the same as the 4870

the scaling is great on the x2.

and of course its gonna be hotter.

you have 2 freaking cores

 

[Guest]

IHMO, get 6 or 8Gb of RAM (Vista 64 sucks up big).

I don't think its that bad though.. I run Vista 64 at work and it uses about 800mb- close enough to what the 32-bit version was using. Then again it never hurts to have more does it ?

Also get a 1200W PSU (in case u might want to add a second 4870X2 in the short run and a lot of HDDs or who-knows-what-else =P) and go for a liquid solution since u're planning for a hardcore OC (wich means, a lot of heat). I don't have many details 'bout liquid solutions at hand, but i'm sure u can get a lot of references from around.

Is liquid necessary for a 3.4 GHZ overclock ? I would have thought it to be a light overclock (could get away with stock cooling), especially with the improved thermal dynamics on the new 45nm quad. Maybe I'm wrong..

 

[invisik]

I don't think its that bad though.. I run Vista 64 at work and it uses about 800mb- close enough to what the 32-bit version was using. Then again it never hurts to have more does it ?



Is liquid necessary for a 3.4 GHZ overclock ? I would have thought it to be a light overclock (could get away with stock cooling), especially with the improved thermal dynamics on the new 45nm quad. Maybe I'm wrong..

4gigs would be more then enough.
no u dont need liquid cooling for only 3.4ghz oc. people r running near 4.0ghz with air cooling lol.

 

[jcorqian]

Four gigs of RAM should be more than sufficient for Vista 64. And no, liquid cooling isn't necessary, I'd get a pretty heatsink though.

 

[Guest]

the hell you talking about the cores are clocked the same as the 4870

the scaling is great on the x2.

and of course its gonna be hotter.

you have 2 freaking cores

Sorry for the confusion; I was talking about it's core / single gpu speed relative to the GTX 280- not a single HD 4870.

 

[Physicz]

clock for clock the 4870x2 is still faster mhz wise at 750mhz. while the 280 is i believe 650? or 625?


but the architectures speak for themselves.

 

[-Fran-]

1200w psu!!? overkill for one 4870x2 650w is enough and for cf i would recommend 850w.

Well, i always make buys thinking about "not falling short" in any possible way. Think 'bout some time in the future when he might need to upgrade to a 4870X3 (zomg, it might happen, lolzorz) and get them in CF.

I don't have solid arguments to say "absolutely go for a 1200W PSU", but sounds about right to me =P

At the end, the +12V1-4 matters for SLi and CF with the 80% max out. So, getting a 850W or a 1200W with +12V1-4 with 20A on each, should be the same.

Esop!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

CoD here http://techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5 where the 4850 in CF wins over G280 slied. Not so sure about your suspicions. I wouldnt call Anands a fanboy site. At TPU, a site I know youre familiar with, they show the x2 getting 192 fps at 4xAA 16AF at 19x12 vs the single G280 getting 122. Even with 80% scaling with sli, thered be really no difference between the cards

 

[invisik]

Well, i always make buys thinking about "not falling short" in any possible way. Think 'bout some time in the future when he might need to upgrade to a 4870X3 (zomg, it might happen, lolzorz) and get them in CF.

I don't have solid arguments to say "absolutely go for a 1200W PSU", but sounds about right to me =P

At the end, the +12V1-4 matters for SLi and CF with the 80% max out. So, getting a 850W or a 1200W with +12V1-4 with 20A on each, should be the same.

Esop!

thats tru if he wanted to put 3! which is insane then 1200w would be reasonable. im just annoyed by ppl telling ppl to buy a high end psu with like 1000w for a system that only uses 500w peak. ppl were telling me to go get like 800w+ for my system but it runs perfectly fine with 500w. =]