First Time Build

[ixivaderixi]

I'm currently a hardcore console gamer (Xbox 360) looking to venture out into the PC Gaming field. I am aware that PC Gaming is higher priced and I am prepared.

Here's a system that I'm looking at:

Mobo: EVGA nForce 680i SLI Motherboard $160
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Processor 3.0 gHz $180
Video Card: XFX GeForce 8800 GT Video Card - 512MB DDR3 $125
OS: Windows Vista Home Prem 64-bit $110
HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB Hard Drive - 7200, 16MB $70
DVD Drive: Sony DRU190A 20X DVD Rewritable Drive $30
Case: Apevia Black/Black X-Plorer ATX Mid-Tower Case w/ free 800 watt PSU $120
Memory:G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 $85

Total: Around $970 -Wasn't really looking to spend that much, I really want to spend around $800 if possible but if I have to put out $970, so be it.

Questions:
-Should I avoid the case/psu bundle and get both of them separate? If so which ones should I get instead?

-Is SLI (Dual Video Cards) worth the money? Is there a huge jump in graphics?

-On the list, is there anything that is unnecessary? Please tell me anything that I should switch that would make it either better or cheaper.

Thanks.

 

[kawininjazx]

Skip the 680i board and get a P35 for like $90, change out the 8800gt for an HD4850, avoid the PSU/Case bundle, those PSUs suck and will kill your system. Spend a few more bucks, get the 32mb cache hard drive, for dvd drive get the samsung sata 22x burner

 

[eklipz330]

a free 800watt psu for only 120 is never good news
buy it seperately, IMO

SLI doesn't scale well all the time, sometimes it does, other times, it may actually degrade video performance

if you get an intel chipset mobo, its cheaper, and with the extra cash, u can get a 4850

http://promotions.newegg.com/asus/070308/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_IntelMotherboards-_-ASUS070308-_-http%3a%2f%-_-http%3a%2f%2fpromotions.newegg.com%2fasus%2f070308%2f478x88.jpg

a promotion on newegg with a p45/4850 combo, ~278 after rebate and discounts

 

[eklipz330]

of course, you can probably fidn better deals on newegg, so look around

 

[shadowthor]

+1 for changing mobos, get the p45 mobo, or x38/x48 chipsets if you plan to crossfire.

 

[ixivaderixi]

*UPDATE*

Mobo: ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 (w/Crossfire) $150
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Processor 3.0 gHz $180
Video Card: ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB $190
OS: Windows Vista Home Prem 64-bit $110
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache $85
DVD Drive: SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R w/ Lightscribe $30
Case: RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEB 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower $90
Power Supply: OCZ / StealthXStream / 600-Watt $55
Memory:G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 $85

Total: $960 (Before Shipping +Tax [Darn Newegg with their NY Tax] )

Again if there's anyway I could make this cheaper, that would be helpful.

 

[dirtmountain]

Looking like a much better system. Make sure your burner and HD are SATA.

 

[thepowerofdonuts]

The 32MB cache doesn't really make a difference. It might in one or two synthetic benchmarks, but in practicality it doesn't. The WD Caviar 640GB is faster than those, and it only has a 16MB cache. Get that one, it's only $90, and you get a faster drive and 140 more GB. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

For $80 you can get this case, which is better in every way. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

There are better choices for the 4850. This one is the cheapest at $155 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102747 and this one is $15 more and comes with a remote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131112

Go with this PSU if you're willing to spend $25 more (after rebate). It's single rail, which is always better, and it's 80+ certified. It's really one of the best deals you can find.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

Don't get that RAM. Get this if you're willing to drop down to 800, which you can easilly overclock: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146777
If you want 1066, get this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
I think the Mushkin is one of the best pieces of ram. 5-4-4-12 timings at the price of many 5-5-5-15 or even 5-5-5-18 sets, and the same low voltage. Plus it's only $65 after rebate.

 

[spunks]

Looks like a good start. I just did a build for a freind with that case (its a neat case)

okay, you wanna drop down to the $800 dollar mark.

First off, your dont need a crossfire board unless you go past a 22" monitor. a single HD4850 will serve you well, and if not, they have a Dual GPU version right around the corner. this gigabyte board seems to be the popular one currently and has all solid state capictors, which makes it a little more durable.

GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $94

Cheapest burner possibe (though I hear lightsscribe burners hold up better if you do a lot of that)

Sony NEC Optiarc 20X DVD±R Burner Black SATA Model AD-7200S-0B - OEM (free shipping) $26

All HD4850's are basically the same, some are clocked faster though.

SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB $175 ($155 after rebate)

the hard drive is fine, but its $65 (not $70) consider spending $10 more and getting a 500GB (which is acutally faster due to platter sizes)

The memory is also fine, but if spend 3 dollars more for patriot, you qualify for a 20 dollar rebate, or a little more than that you could get a $30 dollar rebate (i dont count rebates in price, just letting you know)

that knocks off $80 in the price you have to pay at check out.

I not keen on your power supply choice. I would go with (currently) a cosair 650tx for $109 ($80 after rebate). Multi 12V rail power supplies have a tendcy to starve high end gaming cards. The one you picked divides up the power in three rails, and if one goes to low, it cant pull from the other rails. this cosair has one massive 52 amp 12v rail so the full potential of the power avaliable is there. But this is really a Nit Pick / personal prefrence.




Spunks

 

[ixivaderixi]

I'm hooking my computer up to a 27" HDTV LCD Monitor (Westinghouse). Does that mean that I need Crossfire support?

 

[spunks]

Oh wow!, I actually use that coolmaster case. I do like it. But I also just did a build with the raidmax smilodom and its not too bad either. the smilodom definatly wins in design and gaming rig look. I love the fold down door and fold down motherboard tray (made it very easy to install a motherboard). Its got a bar that provides extra support to the video card (but still screw the video card in!). Its also got that window so you can look in and see if your fans are spinning or too dirty. The drivebays are all tooless in design too. Where it fails in my opinion, is the very cheap fans that come with it. They didnt seem to move a lot of air. The cool LED lights I hear fail real easy too, but thats internet hersay. The LED lights on the front panel obsucres the hard drive indicator, which is annoying but some people never look at that anyway. and the front panel usb/audio ports are on the inside of the cover, which would annoy me every now and then. The front door is held closed by magnets, which seem far too week but is serviable.

The cool master case has a way more minimlist look, which I like. I picked it up for 34 dollars when compusa closed there retail stores. Has very good cooling. The front I/O stuff is on top, which I find annoying casue it sits on my desk, but if you use it on the floor they are in a good spot. I think the coolmaster also had a little more room on the inside than the smilodom. I do hate the buttons on the side of this coolmaster. they just seem to click weird. the hard drive light on mine is real weak, but I wouldnt expect that on them all. The bottom of the front slants in, which is hard to see in the pictures, which kinda makes it looks like someone kicked it.



Hope that helps you choose

Spunks

 

[spunks]

You can hook this computer up through a d-sub input that most lcd tvs have. If it doesn't, then use the provided hmdi adapter that the card will come with and purchase a hmdi cable off of ebay (they rape you at a retail store), though that wont deliver your sound unless you setup the video card properly (most pc inputs on tv have a sound jack for them).

Crossfire is a dual videocard setup. A single card can output to two displays. you would only (maybe) need crossfire if your tv was a 1080p one (1900x1080), and only because you would want to get better frame rates, not because it wouldnt display anything.





Spunks

 

[nussrods]

+1 dirtmountain sata = definitely
+1 spunks power supplies,= single rail for gaming
Check out corsair memory, antec 900 case, and with a monitor that large, crossfire would probably really help.

 

[ixivaderixi]

I found a Quad Cores for $200 bucks by both AMD and Intel. However they're only 2.4 and 2.5 gHz, respectively. Would you rather get a CPU with more cores and less gHz or a cpu with less cores and higher gHz?

Also I've found what seems like a good deal on RAM. OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB. Looks like really good RAM, and it has excellent reviews. What do you think?

After reading nussrods's post I decided to take a look at the Antec 900. It looks really good. Not as pretty as the Smilodon, however it has free shipping and I trying the cut costs as much as possible.

I've also decided to use ZipZoomFly due to the fact that Newegg has decided to start charging NY sales tax which makes the computer cost a lot more. After transferring the items to ZZF, the price came down a lot. Also all items get shipped via 2 day.

 

[shadowthor]

if you are getting a quad, i would recommend getting either the q6600 or q9450.

 

[ixivaderixi]

I'm having a problem with the motherboard. I would prefer to have one that supports crossfire and/or sli. But I cant find an Intel motherboard that supports ATI's Crossfire.

 

[nussrods]

Check out some of the posts on the Antec 900. There are mods and wire management pics and videos that are amazing. The cooling is great, and very quiet given the multitude of fans!

Go dual core for gaming for now, E-8400 for $175.00 PCP&C psu, and save your big bucks for Q4-08, when we all get to see the new goodies and at what price!!!!

PSU is the heart, don't skimp.

Read more of these forums, these guys that continually support us noobs are awesome.

 

[nussrods]

I'm not an expert on ATI crossfire compatability, but I think the P45 and X38 boards all support crossfire.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131297

 

[eklipz330]

x38 supports full cf where p45 does not

 

[spunks]

nussrods statement of a monitor that large is off. Its big, but what we are looking at is resolution when it comes to calculating the required needs. The resolution (at best) of the westinghouse is 1366x768. which is less than a 19"lcd MONITOR. I've driven several LCD TV's with video cards (no 1080p's though) and sometimes you dont even get that resolution (unless you go through hmdi, which still doesnt garuntee anything). I had an LG 32 LCD tv that would only do 1280x1024 though the pc input (yeah it stetched it too). Went though the HMDI and it got somewhat better, but it was hard to read and I think it cut off some of the bottom. My current samsung 32" LCD sets up as 1360x768 through the d-sub, and my hd3870 plays games awesome on it (bioshock, gears of war, ect) and the hd4850 is more than twice as strong as what I have. My current monitor is a 24" HP that has 1900x1200 resolution, and my HD3870 still pushes 45+ frames on most games (cyrsis being the notable exception, but youd be hard press to get that to play at 1900x1200 with high settings with TWO cards and get 45FPS). When people mention that you should get crossfire when you go to a 24" or larger screen, its because computer monitors hit 1900x1200 or greater then. TV's, for the most part, dont hit 1900x1080 till they are 37". Your tv WILL display a 1080P signal, but it will knock it down to 720P before its displayed.

whew, Okay, now knowing that and your still insistant on crossfire, lets see what we have.

That asus PQ5 you picked earlier has support for crossfire (crossfire X is what they call the lastest version), but that bumps the price up $56 bucks
the chipset you should be searching for is the P45 (though some P43 mothersboars have it? not sure). If you really want to hurt your wallet, go with a X48 chipset, which offers the full potential of crossfire
(has to due to the PCI-E 2.0 bus. You crossfire with the P45 chipset, the bus lanes are divided into the two cards (two 8x buses). The X48 chipset gives full bandwidth (16x) to both).


you wont find a motherboard that supports sli AND crossfire. You must pick one.

search for the motherboard on newegg, its way easier than zipzoomfly. (you can still buy at zipzoomfly though, I live in NY too so I know your pain but I still havent switched to a different company)

your search paramters should be a P43/P45 or a X48 if you want crossfire and PCI-E 2.0 (the lastest standard)

If you know how to tell, look for all solid state capacitors in the pictures(more durable)
a cooling pipe over the voltage regulators and northbridge is a good thing too (but not nessicary, unless you want to overclock to the max)


The CPU choice is a tough one. I would recomend a E8400 to you, because its at 3.0ghz without overclocking and most games only take advange of two cores
the q6600 quad is only at 2.4ghz (but can easily be bumped to 3.0ghz, but your new so I wont recommend doing that, you got enough on your plate). Future games will definalty take advantage of quad (or more) cores. Cyrsis (I HATE YOU CYRSIS!) will utilize all four cores, but I think thats the only notable exception.

above all, remember, if your systems ends up lacking is some way, GAMES WILL SCALE DOWN to fit your hardware.

If you do decide to go crossfire, definatly do not skimp on the power supply. Even if your only going to get the motherboard and not buy the card, consider upping the supply to a 750w single 12volt one, which is what I rocemend if your going to do a dual card setup (though the 650 watt cosair should cover the actual needs). Gives your sytem headroom incase every thing turns on at once



Spunks

 

[ixivaderixi]

After reading that post, I decided NOT to go Crossfire. I am new to Computer Gaming and I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference.

About the CPU, by "bumping to 3.0 gHz" I assume you mean Overclocking. Now I want my computer be as "future proof" as possible, so I would really prefer to go Quad. I just want to know which is faster, a 3.0 Duo or a 2.4 Quad?

Also as far as gaming, should I go for XP or Vista?

 

[spunks]

Yes, you can overclock both cpus. Right now, though, you should concentrate on the build not on how to void warranties by overclocking.

get the dual core E8400 because it will probably perform the best without tweaking with current games


Vista or XP?


XP runs games faster

Vista runs games prettier (has directx 10) but slower (sometimes a lot slower)


some newer games will only run on vista

some older games will not run on vista


Overall Vista looks better visualy, but has some quirks xp does not have. It does take forever to boot also (like 2-3 minutes)



Thats my general impression. There are way more deciding factors than this, but your focus is on games so I'll leave it at that



Spunks

 

[spunks]

Oh, and theres no such thing as future proofing a PC LOL

The e8400 will serve you well for a few years. By the time its slow enough for you to get iritated, there will be 8 core cpus or 16 core cpus. The price of a 3ghz+ quad core should be a lot cheaper in a year too, and you can always swap that out.


November Intel is switching platforms (CPU socket) so a quad core is probably the best you'll be able to get for this board.


Dont worry too much about it. This is a viable game setup for at least 3-4 years and nothing you buy today (quad core with crossfire) will stop you from becoming absolete in that time. I have an old Athlon system with a 7800gt sitting in the corner that still runs crysis (toughest game out hardwarewise) thats probably four years old. (But the newer one I have Looks SOOOO much better )


Spunks

 

[ixivaderixi]

*UPDATE 2*

Mobo: ASUS P5Q LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard $130
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Processor 3.0 gHz $175
Video Card: ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB $190
OS: Windows Vista Home Prem 64-bit $90
HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA $90
DVD Drive: SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA $27
Case: RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WB Black 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout $85
Power Supply: CORSAIR 650TX 650W Power Supply $98
Memory:OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 $96

Total [shipped]: $1088.46

How about now?

 

[spunks]

Sounds real solid. Sorry for creeping the price the other way, though






Spunks