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Do I need to reapply AS5? Or something else?

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September 3, 2009 3:42:10 AM

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9823/hwmon.jpg

What would these temperatures imply at idle (Prolimatech Megahalem heatsink + AS5 thermal compound)?


My system (currently at stock, all default settings in BIOS, etc):
Intel i7 920
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P Motherboard
GTX 295
Corsair 850W
12 GB OCZ Gold RAM
Antec 1200 Case (I opened the side panel and the temps were the same, so airflow is good)

I feel like my idle temps are way too high... I mean, 40C with a Megahalem and AS5? What's going on?

More about : reapply as5

a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 4:14:23 AM

Well your case is pretty warm itself at 38C so no it's not to high. You want to fix it, turn on the air conditioner :D .

If your room isn't that warm then make sure that the hot air being exhausted out your case isn't being blocked as well as making sure that the air intake isn't significantly impeded. Also, used compressed air to get rid of the dust.
September 3, 2009 4:16:57 AM

Thing is, I just built this system just a few days ago. There's plenty of room behind/in front of/to the sides of the case in order to allow air to flow in and out. There's really no dust buildup yet because it's new.

Thing is, at load my temps go up to like 60C. This is just at 2.8 Ghz! I want to OC but I worry my temps are WAY too high, especially considering that I've got a beast of a heatsink and high-grade thermal compound (Arctic Silver 5).

Is it impossible for my cores to be "colder" than ambient? I was expecting my cores, with this heatsink/compound, to be like low 30's or something.
Related resources
September 3, 2009 5:29:09 AM

It is impossible to go below ambient with just air or water cooling alone.
September 3, 2009 5:32:44 AM

I can't tell why my ambient is so high! The house is air-conditioned and everything. Does it depend on whether or not it's seated on the floor or desk? I've even got a ceiling fan going.
September 3, 2009 5:40:23 AM

Ambient temps will be the temp in your room, the air the case is sucking into itself. Then there's case temp, if you think that seems a bit high, then your case airflow might not be very good. One way to test is to take the side of the case off, then check your temps again.
September 3, 2009 5:42:46 AM

The temps were the same when I took the side of the case off
a c 197 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 6:41:39 AM

Measure the temperature right in front of the front fan closest to the CPU inside. That is your ambient temperature.

Is the CPU heatsink oriented horizontally to blow air out the back, or vertically to blow the warm air upward out the top?

I have Antec 900 cases and I orient the heatsinks vertically. I figure that warm air wants to rise. Why fight physics?
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 6:47:23 AM

Your looking for magic. You have to realize that the processor under load is making incredible amounts of heat on a teeny teeny piece of silicon. The heat is distributed to the heatsink as well as it can be. Get a clue.

For example, my I7 965 at stock at 3.4 at less than 1V using CPUZ, ambient temps at 28C ambients, open case tech station, WATERCOOLING, 120X3 QUALITY RAD, GREAT PUMP, fans on low, my idle temps are 39C right now.

So your fine. Your load temps are wayyy diff due to my cooling setup. I load at these ambients at under 60C easy.

You cannot ever ever go sub ambient on ANY air cooled rig. Watercooling is still air cooled even.

Maybe you have been reading too much hype on your cooler, maybe they were on a much cooler chip like a Q6600, your overclock voltages might be stoopid high, especially if your voltages are on auto, your fans on the heatsink might be crap, you might need to understand the basics of what you bought and how it really works.

That said, I don't see your temps being out of line at all.
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 6:51:17 AM

BTW, AS5 isn't high end TPaste. It's okay as the newer stuff goes. It's still okay, but even between the new/older stuff like you used it's only 2-3 C diff.

High end, nope, the new stuff? Read, open your mind.........................
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23...
Newegg reviews or other fun sources are fun to read............. Expert inputs are worth their weight in gold.
September 3, 2009 7:03:02 AM

I've got the heatsink oriented vertically, with two fans pushing air up through the heatsink towards my 200mm fan. The case itself has a total of like 10 or 11 fans working, so airflow is very good. I still can't understand why my temps are so high.

I really want to overclock my system but I worry that I am going to nuke it based on these already-high temps on stock alone. I hear people overclocking their systems all the time with i7 920's with far lesser-quality heatsinks/paste than what I'm using. Most of my fans are 120mm with decent RPM and CFM, not to mention my top 200mm fan.

But yes many voltage settings are indeed on Auto, I think. What should I try changing?
September 3, 2009 3:42:59 PM

you need to get a peltier (TEC) for your CPU.
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 3:46:18 PM

If memory serves doesn't AS5 need about 200 hours of operation to cure?

I think you are not being realistic and that you expect too much.

I have a reference for all the Core i7 cpu temperatures. Unfortunately I am not at home right now. I'll post the link to the temp chart tonight. I think you'll find your temps are okay.

EDIT - I found one reference from another thread. I suggest you read it:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-sticky-core...

I'll post the Core i7 temp charts I mentioned tonight.
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 5:52:39 PM

Conumdrum said:
Your looking for magic. You have to realize that the processor under load is making incredible amounts of heat on a teeny teeny piece of silicon. The heat is distributed to the heatsink as well as it can be. Get a clue.

For example, my I7 965 at stock at 3.4 at less than 1V using CPUZ, ambient temps at 28C ambients, open case tech station, WATERCOOLING, 120X3 QUALITY RAD, GREAT PUMP, fans on low, my idle temps are 39C right now.

So your fine. Your load temps are wayyy diff due to my cooling setup. I load at these ambients at under 60C easy.

You cannot ever ever go sub ambient on ANY air cooled rig. Watercooling is still air cooled even.

Maybe you have been reading too much hype on your cooler, maybe they were on a much cooler chip like a Q6600, your overclock voltages might be stoopid high, especially if your voltages are on auto, your fans on the heatsink might be crap, you might need to understand the basics of what you bought and how it really works.

That said, I don't see your temps being out of line at all.

Agreed. With my 480 rad and OCed i7 I run around 35C. ~22-23 ambient. Vcore is ~1.15v under load. Load temps are 62-64C MAX. (Btw, I have 2x ULTRA KAZE 120mm @2700-2800 rpm and it's rated at ~133CFM @ 3000rpm).

@OP; what are your voltages?
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 7:39:24 PM

I just visited the Intel web site. According to Intel specifications the operating temperature for Core i7 cpu's is 43.2 Celsius at idle and 67.9 Celsius at load.

Hmmm....let's see you measured 40 degrees Celsius. That means you are running 3.2 degrees cooler than specifications call for. Congratulations! The darn thing works! Don't worry! Be Happy!
September 3, 2009 8:02:44 PM

But I am only at 2.8 Ghz, 60C under load. If I were to OC to 3.6 or even 4 ghz (which many people have shown to be possible on air on the i7's) my temps would be absurdly high. Clearly 4 ghz is possible, and so I think I need lower temps, no?

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9823/hwmon.jpg

Show my voltages
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 8:20:40 PM

^If those are correct, you have very high voltage going in to that chip. 1.23v?!???? Even I don't need that much voltage to hit 3.8Ghz.

Those readings are wrong FYI. 1.92v on the +12 rail. Nice. You won't even boot with that. Give us the CPUZ readings.

I think you messed up with the installation of the HSF. Used too much/too little paste,etc.
September 3, 2009 8:31:02 PM

That is my concern too.

Let me get my CPUZ output real quick, one moment
September 3, 2009 10:14:34 PM

Anyone have any interpretation of these?
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 10:14:37 PM

^Yup. Like I thought. You have some messed up setting. You are putting in WAY too much voltage for that CPU. Set BIOS voltages manually. There is NO WAY you need 1.2v for stock speed.
September 3, 2009 10:21:42 PM

What should I set my voltages to?
Well I am going out right now to buy some isoprop alcohol to clean my heatsink. I'm going to try reseating it and then I want to change my voltages. Although really I'd like to overclock everything.
September 4, 2009 1:03:41 AM

I've got some alcohol (99% isopropyl)... what's the best way to do this?

Just remove the heatsink, wipe away what I can with a towel, the apply some alcohol and wipe the rest clean? Do I need to wait?
September 4, 2009 1:38:34 AM

What i do i scrape as much off as i can with my fingernail, lightly mind you. You don't want to mark the surface, or file your nail, lol. Then i lick my finger and rub in a circular motion, then wipe with a paper towel or lint free cloth. Continue till it's quite clean, saliva works very well for removing thermal paste. Then i grab a Q-Tip soak up some Iso, and sterilize, and finish cleaning the surface. You do not want any leftover spit on there, lol.

After wiping with the alcohol you only need to wait till it's evaporated, which takes seconds.
September 4, 2009 2:24:09 AM

Possible problems - Bad mounting of heatsink, fans not running properly.

You guys do realise he has speedstep on, at 1.6GHZ he's at around 40C.
Which is ridiculously high, make sure you mount heatsink properly read the manual. After mounting, try to lift the heatsink, if he moves a lot then it's a problem.
September 4, 2009 2:55:02 AM

I took off the heatsink, cleaned everything, and tried reinstalling. Will let you know shortly how temps change.

BTW the thermal compound was almost nonexistent in the center! It was spread out to the perimeters.
September 4, 2009 2:57:15 AM

WHAT THE HELL.

Temps are still around 40C. UNGH.

At load 2.8 Ghz, still around 60C. 1.232V core, and now it's saying 8V on the +12V at load, 1.5V idle
September 4, 2009 3:10:43 AM

What are you using to load your CPU btw? I re-skimmed through your posts and didn't see which program you used. If you're using Prime95 or similar then your temps are pretty good actually. Mainly because your voltage is already above normal it seems.

Try overclocking on that voltage and see how high it can go. I'm guessing 3.6ghz wouldn't be hard.
September 4, 2009 3:12:45 AM

Prime95, yes.

My problem is that I am worried that if I OC, I will run into dangerously high temps. I also don't know anything about voltages or what is considered safe/reasonable depending on my base clock, or if I need to enable speedstep, etc.


Right now I am trying .93125 volts with default base clock of 133, speedstep enabled. Not sure if that's too low or not, or if I should try less?
September 4, 2009 3:14:35 AM

Aaaaaaaaaand I bluescreened.
September 4, 2009 3:17:10 AM

Gonna try 1.2V with base clock 150 (3 ghz)
September 4, 2009 3:29:47 AM

I decided to stick with base clock of 133 first to see how low I can go with the voltages on stock. Right now I have it manually set to .95something and my load temps are around 50C. 10C better than before! Although my idle temps are still 40C, the load is what matters. Should I try to go lower? .93 gave me a bluescreen -- safe or did I screw up?

My rationale: If I can keep going lower with VCore on stock until I can boot and run Prime95 without things dying on me, I should figure out what that minimum VCore is, no?

And then, from there, rev up the baseclock until I start getting errors, then jack up the voltages until I regain stability, repeat. All the while ensuring load temps don't go above, say, 75-80 (I hear 85 is particularly unsafe).

Is this process how one correctly adjusts the CPU voltages?


Also, why do my VCore readings look different from what I set in the bios? At idle i was like .93V and then at load, now, I am at 50C and .912V? What is going on?
September 4, 2009 3:37:52 AM

That method would work yes, but what i would do is first turn off speed step, and leave the voltage at 1.2vcore. About 75C under Prime Small FFT load is usually where i draw the line. Lower is better.

From there start turning up your clock speed until your not stable, little by little of course. Then if temps are good, increase vcore till it's stable. Provided temps are good keep continuing up. For a long term stability test in prime I like to keep temps below 75C. I don't like to leave it that high for very long, but for the sake of stability i do it. A few hours is sufficient.

There's a guide for overclocking I7's at the top of this forum that should help too.

EDIT: Too answer additional question.

That's what happens when the CPU is under load, the voltage drops a little. It's normal.
September 4, 2009 3:42:43 AM

I'm just trying to, again, find the optimal point. What would actually DAMAGE my system? I don't want to go too high.

Is the general process to set the voltage and then find maximum clock that works, or do you set the clock and manipulate vcore until it works? Do I have to mess with QPI/Uncore?

What about RAM overclocking? Is that something I can mess with after the fact or does it interfere with CPU clocks?
September 4, 2009 4:28:25 AM

Voltage too high could damage your system, as well as temps too high. 100C is when it will turn itself off i believe. Best just to stay around 73C after 10min Prime. I'd call it a good personal maximum.

There's more then one way to do it, some like to set voltage that they're comfortable with, and clock up to it's unstable, then clock down until it is. Other like to bump clocks up a bit at a time, and add a little voltage when it becomes unstable, either way works. I believe you do utilize QPI/Uncore, my knowledge of I7 overclocking is pretty limited to just the basics for any processor.

RAM overclocking is practically useless, i wouldn't bother. BUT if you REALLY want to, do it after you're done with the processor and only after it's declared Prime Stable. I'm pretty sure you just have to change the RAM ratio with the CPU to change the RAM speeds. That again is a realm i haven't explored with I7 as i have never done any I7 overclocking myself. Only with the Core 2 line i have any real experience.
September 4, 2009 4:40:45 PM

to the OP.. on one of your posts where you said you removed the HSF to clean and reapply paste...

You said,
"BTW the thermal compound was almost nonexistent in the center! It was spread out to the perimeters. "

based on how you worded that... you DID apply some in the middle (hopefully evenly) and the HSF pressing on the CPU spread it out.... that's normal... how much Thermal Goo are you putting on there? If you apply too much then your temps will go up. The point of the TIG is to fill in micro-cracks between the HSF and the CPU.

Another point to "too much TIG" is if you over apply then the TIG can leak out the sides and hit the MoBo or maybe even the pins.

I'm not trying to say you applied it wrong, but based on what you've typed it sounds like you may have over applied.

The point is to have as thin and evenly spread amount of TIG as you can.

You should need more than 2 rice sized dabs of TIG... AT MOST.
!