Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Watecooling Loop. Need Recommendations

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
September 3, 2009 7:53:57 AM

Friends,
I fried my mobo and am going to upgrade to nehalem. but i dont have money right now, and i am sitting totally idle. So i thought that why not design an efficient watercooling system for my soon to come pc?
There are problems though. i am totally new to watercooling. i dont know any of the criteria nor the reputable brands which are the components of a good watercooling system.. The good news is i am not a total noob and i have the brains for designing a good loop. This is my final loop.<sorry i didnt have any designing software except paint>

Explanation.
The loop is-- reservoir>pump>splitter>cpu/NB/GPU>joint>radiator>flow controller>reservoir
>radiator>reservoir.
till the radiator<air cooled> the loop is a normal one. but what i will do is attach a flow control to the outlet of the Rad. one pipe leading to reservoir and the other leading to a radiator in a fridge. I will purchase the air cooled rad and the fridge cooled one will be made by me. so that way even if i forget to turn the fridge on, the air cooled rad will hold.

I will be using CM Elite 334 case <mid tower>

Now that u have seen the case....
My problems..
1. there will be only one drive bay for the reservoir. and i do not have the money nor the courage to mod my case to the extreme.. pls suggest a viable position for reservoir..
2. i cannot see space for a good pump. pls suggest if one would fit.
3. Since i am totally new, i dont have any idea abt what spec of a pump would be required.
4. How does the reservoir capacity affect the efficiency? is 1 liter enough for my loop?
5.what size of hosing will be required <diameter>??
6. Will my loop be efficient?
7. as far as i know, Frozen cpu ships to my country.<india>. pls quote any other site which ships to india or take your recommendations from frozen cpu itself.
8. i will be buying only the pump, waterblock, radiator and hosing from the market. everything else will be custom made by me.
9. I have About 250$-300$ USD for the above mentioned items. Please recommend the best suited for my needs.
10. thanks!!
Oh and as soon as i start building this thing, i will start a mod thread. keep Track!!
September 3, 2009 7:57:55 AM

the fridge cooled rad will give less than ambient temps for extreme overclocking!!
September 3, 2009 8:24:36 AM

You will burn out the fridge, it's not designed to constantly cool something. It brings temps down on food taking an hr or so, then only has to do maintenance cooling to keep the temperature stable. The cooling power of a fridge is pretty crappy also. Although the theory sounds good, in practice it would be disappointing.

BUT if you hooked a rad up to an AC unit, THEN your talking some cooling :)  My knowledge on how to go about such things is limited, but there are some avid extreme cooling nerds on here. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.

First i'll have a go at your list of questions.
1. There are one drive bay reservoirs, but perhaps a T Reservoir word work for you. Basically all you do is at the highest point in your loop, you put a T junction. Run a small bit of tubing upwards, cap it, and there's your reservoir :)  You can even go as far as drilling a hole in the top of your case, attach the tube reservoir to it with a nice valve and plug system. And now it's easy to fill up. Apparently it's less restrictive for the entire loop to do it that way anway.

2. You can mount a pump easily in almost any mid size case. It's best to mount them on the bottom, so i've heard. Usually next to the PSU. Or in your case at the bottom anywhere in front of the motherboard would do, or a bit to the right in front of the drive bays. OR in the bottom of the drive bays. Either way you're potentially blocking stuff. It's up to you to decide where is most convenient.

3. Not sure on pumps, all i know is there should have a decent Gallons Per Hour, and good pressure. There another term for it, can't remember.

4. 1 Liter is enough :)  A Small res i think is slightly better for efficiency, i could be wrong though.

5. Big hosing :)  1/2 i think is pretty common. You could go for 3/4 too i remember correctly. Large hosing hold more water obviously, thus more heat absorbing potential. Just have to make sure you get the proper sized barbs.

6. In short, no. You can't expect to cool the CPU, Chipset, AND GPU in one loop. Your temps wouldn't be that good. To much resistance, etc. Unless you got the proper components to do so, thus costing a lot more then 300USD. For 250-300USD you'd be able to setup a good CPU only water cooling loop. You MIGHT me able to afford a chip set water block in that loop. But definitely not with a GPU block, far too expensive.

7. Can't help ya there, sry bud.

8. Ok

9. I'll leave that to the Pros of the Forum :) 

10. You Welcome :sol: 
Related resources
September 3, 2009 1:02:39 PM

Thanks man <prompt reply>!
k...
1. i will only be using the fridge cooled rad for limited periods <overclocking> <that is what the controller is for> ...
it will have some kind of tray to put ice in for near zero temps..
2 . will a powerful pump <Innovatek Eheim HPPS i High Power> hold my loop?
3. i will fit the vga block much later when i am a watercooling pro.. i just want to keep the option open...
4. How the hell will a rad fit an AC unit?
5. Pls give recommendations.
6. that t-juction thing seems really intelligent but at the same time brings a doubt to ma mind.. if this method is really so space saving and efficient, why do ppl use normal reservoirs? ...
7. how much tubing shud i put above the t-junction?
thanks!
keep track of the thread that i would start in a week or so..
September 3, 2009 1:12:11 PM

oh and i may even build my own custom case..
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 3:03:58 PM

Here is why a mini fridge won't work:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=373263

If you want to go below ambient, look in to phase change or TEC (haven't seen a good TEC that's able to cool an i7 tho).

What are your rad sizes? Why cool Northbridge? Also why buy the rads? I'm sure you can pick up some heatercores from a local auto store insted of paying for Frozen CPU's shipping.


Please read below first. I do not think you have a solid understanding of the WCing basics (because you asked one of the most nubish questions: "what size of hosing will be required <diameter>?? " )
Conumdrum said:
Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Maybe this long rewritten and modified thing will help. Most say OMG TY, some don’t, they usually just don’t ever reply.
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $65 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU. You can do it for less, but a CPU only loop is $250 or so, add a GPU, add $100. If your looking at an i7 and a BIG GPU, start thinking about a big rad, possibly two rads, or even TWO loops.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while reading this info, get a feel for what your getting into and learn.
It’s not 'Roket Science', but you need to know the basics and the lingo as a beginner.
You should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads, guides and more. It's how YOU learn. I can recommend the best stuff, but there are things only reading and participating on forums will ya learn anything. You don’t have to join all the forums. But reading ALL the WC stickies and many threads that interest you is important. A thread might be 50 replies long, and 15 of those replies might be what you needed to ‘PASS THE TEST’. Remember, once the $500 of goodies show up on your doorstep you’re on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. It took me a while; I was big into Air over clocking and started to read about water-cooling. I made my decision to water-cool. THREE months later I made my first purchase of parts. Yes it took me that long and I have built a few systems and always just fine.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. Your temps with a good WC rig will be better than you could of got on air, guaranteed. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators do NOT fit in many cases. Reading up on pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky. Look here too…. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22...
...........................
2009/2010 Heat thoughts:
With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger dual chip GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big over clocks, better go 320 sized rad.
Expect a i7 at 4.1 to be putting out close to 250 watts. Using the radiator testing charts, a PA 120.3 with medium fans on high you’ll get a Delta T of 5C, very good. Some have suggested a GTX295 puts out about 250 watts of heat, possibly more like 280 under load. You try and put both of those on a 120x3 radiator the CPU will not over clock at all, it will be very very unhappy. You want to learn more about heat load and the all important measurement, Delta T, read up in the stickies I provided.
2007/2008 Old stuff heat thoughts:
For the old Q6600 CPUs and the old 4870 and GTX280 cards.
IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.
…………………………………………………………
Just general info what you should do once a year to keep your WC at 100%:
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The blocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean. You can pour it in a clean bowl and inspect the water if you like.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. It’s very relaxing with some mellow jazz in the background. Run a rag using a coat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well. I always consider replacing my hose every year. Plasticizers leach out, the tubing isn’t as flexible. Consider it a ‘Hobby Cost’.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HW monitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: Real Temp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking. [...] p?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index. [...] s&catid=40 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking. [...] p?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com
http://www.frozencpu.com/
……………………………………………………………

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/253958-29-shadow-wate....
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 3:06:46 PM

Here is the general loop I recommend for cooling ONLY and i7:

Swiftech GTZ
MCP655 aka D5
MCR320 or heater core
1/2" ID Tygon
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 4:53:13 PM

That is, perhaps, the MOST INEFFICIENT depiction of a cooling loop I have seen to date.

You don't need NB cooling...you aren't going for record overclocks, and if you are, you should do a lot more research first. Having all those splitters and junk in there will only kill your pump's flow rates. I am not sure about the 'refrigerant cooled' radiator...you are starting to mix into phase change with things like that, and as a few others have stated...refrigerators being used for PC cooling is a failure waiting to happen. There are some ways to DIY this with other components, but since you lack some basic knowledge (like Shadow stated) you might want to start at the beginning and build a kite before you put a rocket in space.
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 5:38:23 PM

Quote:
That is, perhaps, the MOST INEFFICIENT depiction of a cooling loop I have seen to date.

True that. The OP splits it in to like 3??? Adblock+ blocked it so didn't see it the 1st time.

Quote:
you might want to start at the beginning and build a kite before you put a rocket in space.

That's a first. :lol:  EPIC!
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 7:51:27 PM

Hey, sometimes you have to spit out a witty analogy before someone gets what you are are trying to tell them. If it gets worse than that, try pictures...but here, we started with the picture first...
September 3, 2009 8:50:21 PM

ok..
before u guys try any more analogies .. i told u I AM NEW TO WC.
and fyi i saw a DIY thread <probably on bit tech> which split the main line into SIX connections. all with a ehiem.
if six connections can hold, why not 3??
and pls i am tired of telling ppl that the vga loop will be added much later.. maybe on another pump. so pls read carefully.
and lastly my mobo- ex58 UD5 extreme <gigabyte> has a NB waterblock prefitted. so if i dont install WC on it, its an investment gone waste aint it?


And be nice to ppl.... u never know what the person at the other end of the table packs....
thats wht forums are for- sharing info..--POLITELY
oh and one more thing -rocket scientists do fly kites..
September 3, 2009 9:00:00 PM

arjun_jamil1 said:
the fridge cooled rad will give less than ambient temps for extreme overclocking!!

Condensation will be a HUGE issue if you go under room temp.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 9:16:11 PM

Its not about the 'connections holding' its about the flow rate and the ability for the components to be cooled by an adequate amount of coolant to maintain the temps.

No offense, the point I am trying to make is that you should read on some more informed forums to see the points I am trying to make. All too often, we get people in here with illusions of grandeur who always think they have the next best thing that 'no one else thought of yet' and because, in theory, it should work, they are very easily upset.

And I would be willing to bet that every rocket scientist first flew something far closer to the ground than outer space in his or her life, first.
a b K Overclocking
September 3, 2009 10:11:55 PM

^Well said. Sorry if we offended you in any way. But fact still stands that you need to learn MUCH more before you do any WCing. (see: your own question about tube sizing).
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 4:56:02 AM

arjun_jamil1 said:
ok..
before u guys try any more analogies .. i told u I AM NEW TO WC.
and fyi i saw a DIY thread <probably on bit tech> which split the main line into SIX connections. all with a ehiem.
if six connections can hold, why not 3??
and pls i am tired of telling ppl that the vga loop will be added much later.. maybe on another pump. so pls read carefully.
and lastly my mobo- ex58 UD5 extreme <gigabyte> has a NB waterblock prefitted. so if i dont install WC on it, its an investment gone waste aint it?


And be nice to ppl.... u never know what the person at the other end of the table packs....
thats wht forums are for- sharing info..--POLITELY
oh and one more thing -rocket scientists do fly kites..



Lets go back to watercooling basics 101. If you haven't read all the guides and spent more than a few hours just reading on other forums your clueless and just going to frustrate yourself. Start over.

Slow down. It's gonna just get worse.

And your comment about what someone is packing could be construed as a personal threat here and it's possible you will be if not already been reported.
September 4, 2009 8:29:22 AM

OK guys Sorry for the "threat". i didnt write it to be taken that way. You all r the big fishes of WC , sorry......
Now .
Firstly i need you guys to approve/criticize/improve my normal loop.<till the aircooled rad>.
then we will start talking about the refrigerant cooled rad.ok??

I look at the fridge cooled rad this way--
Some hot day, i feel like playing crysis on my shiny watercooled i7. i start playing. but the gamer craving <for more fps> kicks in. so what to do? i already had pushed my WC system to the limits. So i get a flashback <in sepia tone> about the things i learnt in school abt thermodynamics. And suddenly the modder spirit in me wakes up. i take an old mini fridge, drill holes in it for the rad barbs and put some kind of flow alternator at its inlet. So now my new rad is a part of my cooling system WHEN I WANT IT. <the flow alternator/controller will enable me to kick out or bring in the fridge cooled rad whenever i want.> ok Now the real thing begins....
since i told u ill make the 2nd rad myself... i add some kind of tray in it for ice.
the water cooled rad will be inactive for most periods, but will still be in an active fridge there fore cooling the liquid inside it <which is just as the beer kept beside the rad.> now when i turn it on, the cool liquid will enter my loop giving a sudden drop in temps, which will be maintained by the ice i put in the tray. and since the copper <or aluminum> in the rad will stay cool for some time, it will cool the liquid running in it.Also before the 2nd rad receives the liquid , it will be cooled by the air cooled rad <to normal temps> .all of these factors will put minimum load on the compressor of the fridge <which btw will be covered by the huge 5 yr warranty>. so wen all other cooling resources will deplete, the fridge will cool the rad. And that to for minimal time <time i want to run the cooling session <eg-1hr> - time taken for other resources to deplete <eg-45 min>= time the fridge actually cools at its full power..>.
and pls i still dont understand..... how is asking for a hose's recommended diameter nubish??
September 4, 2009 8:33:36 AM

oh and sorry rubix. i took your comment as get the f... outta here when it was - dude ...chill. i dont think it will work...
September 4, 2009 8:47:26 AM

Oh and fyi @ conundrum... u r so famous , that i may have read most of your posts.. i remember one guy asking if that ehiem <red accent> will hold his loop.. and you said it was WAYY overkill.. so why not my loop?
September 4, 2009 9:16:43 AM

I suppose if you really wanted to, it couldn't hurt to find out how it works. Though i'm fairly certain it will be a disappointment, although a fun project. I should add that once you put those nifty barbs on your fridge the warranty will be void.

All things aside, if you're set on doin' it. Have fun, and enjoy yourself. Experiments are fun, look at Mythbusters :)  Just remember the results you get may be completely different then what you expect, that's why it's an experiment.

EDIT: I am directing this post entirely at the fridge thing. The rest of the project i'm sure will be a success with the help of our forum vets here :) 
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 1:32:46 PM

That's the problem with email/IM/forums is that most of commmunication is visual and body language, not the actual wording, so most of what is meant to be said is actually lost in translation. Yes, you need to chill a little...I like the enthusiasm and drive, but a lot of these ideas have already been tried (multiple times) and failed to produce results. Yes, in theory, they sound like good ideas, but unless you really know what you are doing in most cases, jumping into more advanced ideas of cooling before you try out the next step is very much like the kite/rocket analogy...just give it a try and see what your results are first...
a b K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 1:58:47 PM

The fridge idea will fail. It's been tried, and has failed. I remember a post over at OCN where a guy used an industrial grade fridge and still couldn't keep his P4 EE cool.
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 3:05:20 PM

Ohh a guy was looking at the massive ehiem pump? Yea it happens. Maybe thats what your asking about? Could you find the link? I'm curious.

Anyway, we don't split loops in a simple watercooling setup. It affects flow rates and can starve the other parellel loop. Many blocks need a minimum of xx flow rates otherwise the temps skyrocket. We go something like this:
Res-Pump-Rad-CPU-GPU-NB-back to res. This keeps the flow rate equal in the loop and as high as it can be. There are limitations like too tiny hose, too many 90 deg fittings, restrictive blocks, weak pump. It's a big INFORMED balance of the whole picture.

If you want to try the fridgerator, go ahead. Look at the back of the fridge, what is it's watt rating? Say, for example, it says 800 watts. I can safely say about 25% of that is lost in normal electronics and pump mechanics. Lets say the fridge can cool 600 watts.

An i7 and a GTX295 under load can get over 500 watts of heat if overclocked. If the rad was put inside the fridge, and you had massive HS fans blowing cool air over the rad you wouldn't be able to keep it up for a long long time. The fridge compressor is not meant to run for long periods of time, maybe 2-6 minutes, then it shuts down. You'd have to use a AC unit or industrial compressor.

AND, a fridge has TWO compartments. The total cooling is divided between the freezer and fridge section. Ohh I'm not talking a small fridge, a normal kitchen fridge in my first part. A small fridge is wayyy to weak.

You might want to consider buying a bigger case. Your choice isn't made for watercooling. You can't even fit a 120x2 rad in the front unless you like dremeling etc. You will want a 120x3 rad at a MINIMUM for CPU/GPU/NB, more like a 120x3 AND a 120x2 depending on your GPU you pick.

Have you started reading all the guides etc that has been posted in this 'discussion'?
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 3:30:24 PM

^ We have a winner!

Thank you for helping explain the fridge failure concept in more detail.
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 3:47:04 PM

Umm and we guys are not even close to the WC gods. I consider myself a noob next to them. And on many advanced forums I'm not even a blip on the radar.

This is a chilled water rig. The OP has rads for normal use, chilled for gaming, just like you want. When he's chilling and the compressor is running and the massive Delta fans are running, you can bet it can be heard down the hallway and up the stairs. The room he's in will get nice n toasty too.

Look closely at the insulation he has had to do on the Mobo and GPU. Ever seen a cold glass of water drip water on the outside? You have to insulate or the water will drip onto stuff.

What you have proposed just isn't nearly powerful enough to even chill the water. You have to do something like this to even get any benefit.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21...
a b K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 5:26:19 PM

^Nice 2 posts Conumdrum! Well done.
September 4, 2009 9:41:13 PM

ok so i have to drop the fridge idea.....:( 
tell me....
1. is the normal loop okay? coz frm wht i read about that ehiem, it looks like the best in the market, which u say cannot hold a tri- split..
2. is using a car's heater core as a rad a good idea? is it mostly standard <size>?
3. I need to know how the T reservoir works. i mean wouldnt the pump just push the water out from the "inlet"? as it wouldnt have any resistance... and the T would obviously be within the pump's head capacity..<sorry if nubish... i always flunked in fluid mechanics.>
4. i have an AC unit 2 meters away from my case... at the same level.. anything we could do about that?
5. i have half decided that i will be building my own case <taking inspiration from the 1200 and cosmos>.. i have all the plans ready in my mind.i will paste schematics <with the agonizing MS paint> soon.
But i need to know where ill get those front panel ports<usb firewire etc>
and that Special Momentary LED illuminated switch.... for fans and lighting, ill use heavy duty duckbill switches.. Oh and pls i dont want to waste my drive bay for one of those "flashy" multi controllers. i am a simple man of a classy taste..... pls suggest.
a b K Overclocking
September 4, 2009 11:12:17 PM

damn thats a nice chiller any idea on the wattage they pull from the plug? and the heat load they can handle?

also why are there more threads poping up about fridges and pc's?
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 5, 2009 3:52:49 AM

arjun_jamil1 said:
ok so i have to drop the fridge idea.....:( 
tell me....
1. is the normal loop okay? coz frm wht i read about that ehiem, it looks like the best in the market, which u say cannot hold a tri- split..
2. is using a car's heater core as a rad a good idea? is it mostly standard <size>?
3. I need to know how the T reservoir works. i mean wouldnt the pump just push the water out from the "inlet"? as it wouldnt have any resistance... and the T would obviously be within the pump's head capacity..<sorry if nubish... i always flunked in fluid mechanics.>
4. i have an AC unit 2 meters away from my case... at the same level.. anything we could do about that?
5. i have half decided that i will be building my own case <taking inspiration from the 1200 and cosmos>.. i have all the plans ready in my mind.i will paste schematics <with the agonizing MS paint> soon.
But i need to know where ill get those front panel ports<usb firewire etc>
and that Special Momentary LED illuminated switch.... for fans and lighting, ill use heavy duty duckbill switches.. Oh and pls i dont want to waste my drive bay for one of those "flashy" multi controllers. i am a simple man of a classy taste..... pls suggest.


I don't care that your building your own case. This is a cooling forum.
You don't need fliud mechanics math.
You find your front stuff by looking, I don't care.
Flashy whatever I don't care.
You want to focus on watercooling your rig or not? Or going high end air cooling?

FOCUS my young one, lets not make a laundry list of what color you want to paint the bottom of your butt.




You want to focus on watercooling your rig or not? Or going high end air cooling?




Okay, great. Your listening. Now I have a instruction for you from a Fallout II Shelter. I can't disclose the location, but you get a Bobblehead of +2 of watercooling knowledge and a +5 of respect from us.

'Take a week off, use the links provided here by me and learn, read, quit asking silly questions.'
That is your task. Your prize is listed, the questions you'll need to answer is:
1. What TWO pumps are most commonly used in a modern WC loop?
2. What is the term Delta T mean in watercooling?
3. What rad company makes the PA 120.3? Pay attention to the . between the 0 and 3.
4. Your question:
2. is using a car's heater core as a rad a good idea? is it mostly standard <size>?
Why don't you tell me? Looks like you glossed over using a car heater core. There are hundreds of rigs using such, mostly from the older days, but it's valid usage. NM, you don't get a chance to answer this one.


Maybe then we can help you quit typing and build the darn thing. It's getting old, I'd rather ignore and move on to intelligent life.

Here is the links AGAIN.Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Maybe this long rewritten and modified thing will help. Most say OMG TY, some don’t, they usually just don’t ever reply.
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for Vram and Mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $65 +
Reservoir $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU. You can do it for less, but a CPU only loop is $250 or so, add a GPU, add $100. If your looking at an i7 and a BIG GPU, start thinking about a big rad, possibly two rads, or even TWO loops.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while reading this info, get a feel for what your getting into and learn.
It’s not 'Roket Science', but you need to know the basics and the lingo as a beginner.
You should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads, guides and more. It's how YOU learn. I can recommend the best stuff, but there are things only reading and participating on forums will ya learn anything. You don’t have to join all the forums. But reading ALL the WC stickies and many threads that interest you is important. A thread might be 50 replies long, and 15 of those replies might be what you needed to ‘PASS THE TEST’. Remember, once the $500 of goodies show up on your doorstep you’re on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. It took me a while; I was big into Air over clocking and started to read about water-cooling. I made my decision to water-cool. THREE months later I made my first purchase of parts. Yes it took me that long and I have built a few systems and always just fine.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. Your temps with a good WC rig will be better than you could of got on air, guaranteed. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators do NOT fit in many cases. Reading up on pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky. Look here too…. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22...
...........................
2009/2010 Heat thoughts:
With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger dual chip GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big over clocks, better go 320 sized rad.
Expect an i7 at 4.1 to be putting out close to 250 watts. Using the radiator testing charts, a PA 120.3 with medium fans on high you’ll get a Delta T of 5C, very good. Some have suggested a GTX295 puts out about 250 watts of heat, possibly more like 280 under load. You try and put both of those on a 120x3 radiator the CPU will not over clock at all, it will be very very unhappy. You want to learn more about heat load and the all important measurement, Delta T, read up in the stickies I provided.
2007/2008 Old stuff heat thoughts:
For a setup using the old Q6600 CPUs and the old 4870 and GTX280 cards this is for you.
IF you just cool your CPU and you’re NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.
…………………………………………………………
Just general info what you should do once a year to keep your WC at 100%:
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The blocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean. You can pour it in a clean bowl and inspect the water if you like.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. It’s very relaxing with some mellow jazz in the background. Run a rag using a coat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well. I always consider replacing my hose every year. Plasticizers leach out, the tubing isn’t as flexible. Consider it a ‘Hobby Cost’.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HW monitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: Real Temp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking. [...] p?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index. [...] s&catid=40 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking. [...] p?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=38... Why we use distilled water. Or de-ionized in the UK because distilled ain’t available unless your rich.

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com
http://www.frozencpu.com/
……………………………………………………………




a c 86 K Overclocking
September 5, 2009 3:57:27 AM

richardscott said:
damn thats a nice chiller any idea on the wattage they pull from the plug? and the heat load they can handle?

also why are there more threads poping up about fridges and pc's?



Dunno. But just spend hours at Xtreme Systems and see the magic. Not a noob place by any means. You get noobish, really uninformed and poor questions, meaning lazy, your immediate ignore from the users and never get replies. No bans, but no help.

This is XS at it's best, was an open bar. I'm a member, and the event was in my hometown, so I went.
Just happen Fugger lives in Vegas, he's been on stage with the Intel CEO.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/26/amds-phenom-ii-pushe...






September 5, 2009 7:29:54 AM

1816740,29,301719 said:
I don't care that your building your own case. This is a cooling forum.
You don't need fliud mechanics math.
You find your front stuff by looking, I don't care.
Flashy whatever I don't care.
You want to focus on watercooling your rig or not? Or going high end air cooling?

FOCUS my young one, lets not make a laundry list of what color you want to paint the bottom of your butt.




You want to focus on watercooling your rig or not? Or going high end air cooling?




Okay, great. Your listening. Now I have a instruction for you from a Fallout II Shelter. I can't disclose the location, but you get a Bobblehead of +2 of watercooling knowledge and a +5 of respect from us.

'Take a week off, use the links provided here by me and learn, read, quit asking silly questions.'
That is your task. Your prize is listed, the questions you'll need to answer is:
1. What TWO pumps are most commonly used in a modern WC loop?
2. What is the term Delta T mean in watercooling?
3. What rad company makes the PA 120.3? Pay attention to the . between the 0 and 3.
4. Your question:
2. is using a car's heater core as a rad a good idea? is it mostly standard <size>?
Why don't you tell me? Looks like you glossed over using a car heater core. There are hundreds of rigs using such, mostly from the older days, but it's valid usage. NM, you don't get a chance to answer this one.


Maybe then we can help you quit typing and build the darn thing. It's getting old, I'd rather ignore and move on to intelligent life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
umm okay,
1.if u r talking brand and model, its laing d5 and MCP355. primochill typhoon and ehiem are pretty much famous too. if u r talking type, i dont know.
2. D T <differentiation of temperature> or 'Triangle' T is a very popular term in Thermodynamics. it means temprature difference ie T2-T1, in terms if heat output, T2 being greater and in terms of cooling T1 being greater.
in chemistry this means to apply temp. difference to initiate a reaction.
for water cooling.... probably one of the above.
3.Thermochill made it. company was purchased by watercooling.uk. renamed Feser.
4.clearly ask the question. i seriously cannot understand....
Oh and i replied when i read..... your questions did not need any research...

September 5, 2009 8:45:02 AM

gimme those bobble heads now!!
or i ll mini-nuke u to hell....
!!!!!!! lol!!!!!!!
okay,okay it seemed funnier in my head...
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 5, 2009 4:09:29 PM

I know, it was a fun game. Figured ya played it
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 5, 2009 5:01:28 PM

So, you know what kind of rad to buy, whats a good pump, probably know about a good CPU block, and probably know enuff about a GPU block to be dangerous.

So I think you can just make up a parts list now and we'll review that and make recommemdations.

Yea, the Delta T we use is the ambient air temp vs the water temp in a loop. The lower the water temp the more efficient your loop is. Usually meaning you got a big radiator. Under 5C is super good, over 10c isn't that good.

A car heater core is awesome. You need to make a custom shroud and get some high speed HIGH HIGH pressure fans because the FPI is so high on one of those. Used to be very popular long ago before rads were made just for us. Shadow has used one I think. They don't fit very well, but with good modz skillz they can fit.

And sure you can buy a stoopidly large, loud AC pump with a large heat dump for your loop. Your stuff!
a b K Overclocking
September 5, 2009 8:22:41 PM

Quote:
Shadow has used one I think.

Yup. Don't bother fitting a heatercore inside a case imo. It's much easier to put it outside. Lol, I mount like 99% of the rads outside.
September 6, 2009 7:34:16 AM

Ok.............
So the parts list is final then,
1. Mcp655 vario
2. tygon tubing.<uv reactive> 1/2 "
3. Distilled Water <@conumdrum-- ya i saw what feser 1 did to that guy's water block. what was the green stuff anyway?>
4. Reservoir if multi-loop or T-line if single.
5. Radiator bought or made or heater core..
6. Swiftech GTZ Apogee
7. NB waterblock prefitted

Question..
1. i still dont understand the T line. i mean i read like All guides, nearly scanned XS and all.
2. i have plans for a HUGE Rad.<like 120x 8.>.If i dont get a suitable heatercore. Tell me ... Since the one pump cannot handle so much length, if i put a Mcp355 at the radiators outlet, will it work?
Res>pump>rad>pump>waterblocks>res...



Case on left Rad right
September 6, 2009 7:39:14 AM

i mount it Obviously outside on the right side..
a b K Overclocking
September 6, 2009 6:22:57 PM

I think a single MCP655(~300GPH) or a Eheim 1262(800+ GPH) will do. On your design, the max head really matters. I used the MCP655 with my heatercore. I'v never run pumps in series, so can't comment on that.
September 8, 2009 10:45:35 AM

Shadow703793 said:
I think a single MCP655(~300GPH) or a Eheim 1262(800+ GPH) will do. Ond your design, the max head really matters. I used the MCP655 with my heatercore. I'v never run pumps in series, so can't comment on that.



Tell me.....
how does flow rate get effected by tubing length or the total length water has to be moved??
and what happened to conumdrum?? wasnt he gonna review my list?...
September 8, 2009 12:50:39 PM

You know, if you are new to the whole thing, it might be best to recommend that you strt small and work your way up until you have a bit more experience handling water cooling. At the very least, you can at least learn a lot of the information that shadow and conundrum have been hand-feeding you just by practical application. Try setting up a simple loop (CPU block, reservoir, radiator, pump) and run that for a while. You will get practical experience on how to assemble the loop, how to test for leaks, and finally a real-world model so you can see exactly what the rest of us have been working with for years. Water cooling isn't magic. You still have to dump the heat somehow. It's just that water cooling does it more efficiently than air cooling by centralizing your heat dump in one place (radiator) by using a more efficient heat exchange system (cooling loop).

This is kinda like driving a car. You can't expect to go straight from driver's ed to the formula one racing circuit. You have to build up to it. Sure, you may have some mean overclocking creds, but the most important thing is to read read read (the research materials are out there, just google away at it) and then take what you have read and apply it to practice. Sure, you will have a few dismal failures, but just like shadow and conundrum would tell you, every failure is a learning opportunity.

Take the advice of others, but don't be afraid to try new ground, fully expecting to land flat on your face at any given turn of events. The trick is to pick yourself up and try again, learning from your experience. You've burned out one motherboard...I still remember the first one I fried. Dropped a screw and it crossed connections on the CPU mosfets. Fried the motherboard, CPU and video card. But I learned the hard way that if you are moving anything around that could possibly drop onto the motherboard, shut it down first.
September 8, 2009 1:09:13 PM

arjun_jamil1 said:
Tell me.....
how does flow rate get effected by tubing length or the total length water has to be moved??
and what happened to conumdrum?? wasnt he gonna review my list?...


Tube length (I take it you mean circuit length) can affect flow rate significantly. The pump you choose to use has a certain pressure rating which is expressed as a flow rate or as a pressure (head) rating. That is the flow rate without any impingement. If you were to add straight tubing to this pump, it would impede overall flow rate by the force of the flow pushing against the tube walls, especially if the pump has to push the fluid against the force of gravity. Additionally, every turn, bend or angle that is made in the loop also adds impingement, as well as any changes in the diameter of the loop. When you start to add water blocks and radiators into your cooling loop, the total flow is reduced considerably, as both of these devices trade impingement to either add heat into the loop or remove it from the loop. This is how you can go from a pump rated at 600 LpH to having a total loop flow rate of just under 100 LpH.
a b K Overclocking
September 8, 2009 3:25:35 PM

^Thank you. Glad I didn't explain it as I would have probably used some explicit words there....

@OP: READ MORE!
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 8, 2009 3:49:58 PM

Houndsteeth, your doing great!
September 9, 2009 5:51:12 PM

ok....
after having my butt flown around... i will not ask for any more help.. but will leave you with a question............................ is it bad to be ambitious? to dream and achieve beyond what is expected from a beginner?
anyways, thanks for the help... introduced me to the world of modding....
thanks...
moderator..pls close the thread..
September 9, 2009 8:11:43 PM

arjun_jamil1 said:
ok....
after having my butt flown around... i will not ask for any more help.. but will leave you with a question............................ is it bad to be ambitious? to dream and achieve beyond what is expected from a beginner?
anyways, thanks for the help... introduced me to the world of modding....
thanks...
moderator..pls close the thread..


No, it is not bad to be ambitious. Just take things in stages until you get a better handle on what you are doing rather than try to do everything at once. The fun thing about water cooling is that you can start smsll and eventually add to it. So build a CPU cooling loop first, get your feet wet, and when you feel more comfortable about what you are doing and have more experience about what you are doing, you can add a reservoir and a second loop (with it's own pump) to cool your graphics card(s). As for adding the north bridge to the loop...most of us don't even bother as adding an active heat sink fan combo is more than enough to keep that part within spec.

I was not trying to shoot you down, I was just trying to channel your enthusiasm to keep you from biting off more than you could chew at one time. Now, if you have the physical assistance of someone who is experienced doing water cooling builds, or you are a certified plumber, then the sky is the limit as to how far you should go. But for now, as you are new to the process, and we can only impart so much wisdom over a board, there is a lot that you learn (no matter how much research you do) from actually getting your hands wet. Starting in smaller and simpler steps will let you glean this knowledge with a lot less frustration than trying to build your proposed loop all at once. Remember, baby steps. You can't expect to run before you can walk.

For instance, one of the most irritating things to learn during a water cooling build is filling the loop for the first time and then bleeding the air out of the lines. Since every build is unique, there is no single method that works best. Instead, you have to use several techniques, most of which are learned by trial and error, and give your loop time to move all the air into your reservoir or T-line. While doing this, you have to supply power to your pump without powering up the mainboard, as your processor would probably overheat if you were to run into an air bubble in your pump and you loop came to a standstill. I do this using a power supply tester that allows to to turn on the power supply without a mainboard (you can also hotwire the power supply). My friend actually has an external 12 volt power supply (plug in power brick) that he hooks up to his pump to bleed the lines. Patience is a huge factor here, as you have to wait hours, sometimes days, before all the air finally works its way out of your loop.

On top of that, you eventually learn to put in a drain port as well as a fill port, or learn how you can turn your computer on its side or top to use the fill port as a drain port, as there will be several instances when you need to drain you loop. I have done both (a fill port and a drain port) on several builds because the shape of the modded case didn't allow me to turn it upside down or on its side.

Anyways, best of luck to you. I hope your ambition allows you to build the cooling loop you desire. I just hope you don't learn your lessons the expensive way.
a b K Overclocking
September 9, 2009 11:55:39 PM

LOL! This is just EPIC!
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 10, 2009 5:56:33 AM

Hounds, you will figure out when to spend 30 min on a welcome addition, or waste 30 min on a lost cause. Nice post tho.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 11, 2009 1:27:57 PM

Looks like you guys have this one well in-hand.

Its truly sad when people cannot take constructive criticism from a forum thread.
!