VelociRaptors vs. SDD

What's best for performance (boot drive and running main apps)?

WD VelociRaptors 10,000 RPM vs. SSD?

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136296

or

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136322

VS.

Solid State Disks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] rder=PRICE

Reply to Eng1neering

SSD will always win, especially Intel SSD's - just install everything to it, and any data you have (music, docs, iso's etc) just get another normal or green series hdd for that.

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Intel 120gb SSD + 1tb WD // 2xGTX570 SLI // Corsair 750w // 2xE900F HD Tuners
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Reply to apache_lives

apache_lives wrote :

SSD will always win, especially Intel SSD's - just install everything to it, and any data you have (music, docs, iso's etc) just get another normal or green series hdd for that.

Sorry my friend, but you are not speaking right. A good SSD will always win. For example take the Kingston V series and the VR steps all over it! And that is just one drive, there are other low performance SSDs out there that the VR beats them.

So to summarise and answer to our friend here: A good (and usually expensive) SSD will be much better than the VR

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Reply to darkguset

darkguset wrote :

Sorry my friend, but you are not speaking right. A good SSD will always win. For example take the Kingston V series and the VR steps all over it!

You're comparing sequential transfer rates, not access times. There aren't ANY SSDs made that I'm aware of that ANY mechanical drive can beat in terms of access times - and that's the performance metric that really matters for things like boot speed and application load times.

Sequential transfer rates only matter if you copy a lot of large files or are running programs like video editors which have to do a lot of large file I/O.

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Reply to sminlal

sminlal wrote :

You're comparing sequential transfer rates, not access times. There aren't ANY SSDs made that I'm aware of that ANY mechanical drive can beat in terms of access times - and that's the performance metric that really matters for things like boot speed and application load times.

Sequential transfer rates only matter if you copy a lot of large files or are running programs like video editors which have to do a lot of large file I/O.

Would this be a good choice?

OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX30GXXX 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227393

Sequential Access - Read Up to 230 MB/s
Sequential Access - Write Up to 135MB/s
Sustained Write: Up to 80MB/s

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Reply to Eng1neering

sminlal wrote :

You're comparing sequential transfer rates, not access times. There aren't ANY SSDs made that I'm aware of that ANY mechanical drive can beat in terms of access times - and that's the performance metric that really matters for things like boot speed and application load times.

Sequential transfer rates only matter if you copy a lot of large files or are running programs like video editors which have to do a lot of large file I/O.

Oh dear...

Who said anything about sequential? Did i mention anything like that and i did not see it?

Yes access times are far better in ALL SSDs BUT it is not the only metric that really matters. You are completely wrong here. I will take the Kingston V series for example again, since it takes 0.1ms to reach an area to make a write operation (compared to 6.5ms for the VR), but it takes a whopping 3 seconds to begin and finish that write at a paltry 40MB/s!!! The VR begins the operation immediately and it does so at a random write of ~90MB/s. That means that the VR person will in many cases see a faster computer.

And like you explained to me what a sequential transfer is, let me explain to you that your PC not only performs read operations (where access time matters like you say), but it performs a lot of write operations as well, hence if a crappy SSD takes 30 seconds to write a file that a normal HD or even VR takes 3 seconds, you will see a lot of stuttering and pauses on the SSD system.

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Reply to darkguset

Eng1neering wrote :

Would this be a good choice?

OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX30GXXX 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227393

Sequential Access - Read Up to 230 MB/s
Sequential Access - Write Up to 135MB/s
Sustained Write: Up to 80MB/s

Go for at least a 64GB model minimum.Not only it will give you bigger capacity but it will give you improved speeds as well.

OCZ's agility series is good value and Super Talent Ultradrive GX series too (i own the ST).

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Reply to darkguset

The newer Agilitys are faster than the Vertexs (I hate to use the correct plural for that name ).

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Reply to randoMIZER

randoMIZER wrote :

The newer Agilitys are faster than the Vertexs (I hate to use the correct plural for that name ).

..and a tiny bit better value too!

lol at the plural!

Reply to darkguset

darkguset wrote :

Oh dear...

Who said anything about sequential? Did i mention anything like that and i did not see it?

Yes access times are far better in ALL SSDs BUT it is not the only metric that really matters. You are completely wrong here. I will take the Kingston V series for example again, since it takes 0.1ms to reach an area to make a write operation (compared to 6.5ms for the VR), but it takes a whopping 3 seconds to begin and finish that write at a paltry 40MB/s!!! The VR begins the operation immediately and it does so at a random write of ~90MB/s. That means that the VR person will in many cases see a faster computer.

And like you explained to me what a sequential transfer is, let me explain to you that your PC not only performs read operations (where access time matters like you say), but it performs a lot of write operations as well, hence if a crappy SSD takes 30 seconds to write a file that a normal HD or even VR takes 3 seconds, you will see a lot of stuttering and pauses on the SSD system.

So would you recommend VR over a SSD all around? What would you use? (certainly not interested in seeing the system bottleneck and stutter) I understand a high-end SSD would be ideal, but $500+ might be extreme for most of our budgets.

So what do we go with? VR or SSD?

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Reply to Eng1neering

darkguset wrote :

Go for at least a 64GB model minimum.Not only it will give you bigger capacity but it will give you improved speeds as well.

OCZ's agility series is good value and Super Talent Ultradrive GX series too (i own the ST).

So would you recommend this better over the previous mentioned choice?

OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227461

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Reply to Eng1neering

randoMIZER wrote :

The newer Agilitys are faster than the Vertexs (I hate to use the correct plural for that name ).

What would you use?

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Reply to Eng1neering

Eng1neering wrote :

So would you recommend VR over a SSD all around? What would you use? (certainly not interested in seeing the system bottleneck and stutter) I understand a high-end SSD would be ideal, but $500+ might be extreme for most of our budgets.

So what do we go with? VR or SSD?

I would go for a 128Gb Agility or Vertex or Ultradrive model if money allowed for. If not, next on scale the 64GB variants... if not even that, then for a VR definitely over a HD.

I own both. I have the 150GB VR for WinXP and Games (2 partitions) and the 64GB Ultradrive GX for W7.

They are both very good and in this case SSD>VR (except for space obviously)

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Reply to darkguset

Eng1neering wrote :

So would you recommend this better over the previous mentioned choice?

OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227461

Yes! For sure! Like i said, it is worth spending a little extra to get a 64GB minimum! It is a major major investment+improvement!

Reply to darkguset

I have almost 60 GB in games alone. A good 1 or even 2 TB drive with a small 200 GB partition for the OS and programs would also be a good choice overall. The real world load time difference between SSDs and HDDs aren't worth the hassle of having to constantly uninstall and reinstall your games as you need them. Just my opinion.

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Reply to PsyKhiqZero

Eng1neering wrote :

What would you use?

I would use an Agility if I had the cash, but I won a 30GB Vertex so that's what I am using

PsyKhiqZero wrote :

I have almost 60 GB in games alone. A good 1 or even 2 TB drive with a small 200 GB partition for the OS and programs would also be a good choice overall. The real world load time difference between SSDs and HDDs aren't worth the hassle of having to constantly uninstall and reinstall your games as you need them. Just my opinion.

Install the games on the HDD, OS and smaller programs on the SSD. Perfect balance.

Reply to randoMIZER

He is asking for a boot drive + main applications, not games.

SSD as main drive + VR for games=WIN-WIN @ performance/cost

Reply to darkguset

darkguset wrote :

I would go for a 128Gb Agility or Vertex or Ultradrive model if money allowed for. If not, next on scale the 64GB variants... if not even that, then for a VR definitely over a HD.

I own both. I have the 150GB VR for WinXP and Games (2 partitions) and the 64GB Ultradrive GX for W7.

They are both very good and in this case SSD>VR (except for space obviously)

The Intel 80GB would also be a good choice, and would in most ways be faster than any of these ones that you mentioned.

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Reply to cjl

darkguset wrote :

Yes access times are far better in ALL SSDs BUT it is not the only metric that really matters.

My point was that you claimed that the Velociratpor would "step all over" the Kingston SSD. This is misleading because, while it may be true for sequential I/O, it's not true for random I/O. And for most people, random I/O is more important.

Everyone benefits from faster random I/O through quicker boot and application startup times. The only people who benefit from faster sequential I/O are those who regularly work with large files, and then only if they put the files on the SSD (which is not the norm since most people put the OS on the SSD and use a hard drive for bulk storage).

The two types of drives have different performance characteristics and excel at different tasks. It's inaccurate to simply say that one is flat-out better than the other.

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Reply to sminlal

cjl wrote :

The Intel 80GB would also be a good choice, and would in most ways be faster than any of these ones that you mentioned.

...and it would also be much more expensive! lol!

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Reply to darkguset

sminlal wrote :

My point was that you claimed that the Velociratpor would "step all over" the Kingston SSD. This is misleading because, while it may be true for sequential I/O, it's not true for random I/O. And for most people, random I/O is more important.

Everyone benefits from faster random I/O through quicker boot and application startup times. The only people who benefit from faster sequential I/O are those who regularly work with large files, and then only if they put the files on the SSD (which is not the norm since most people put the OS on the SSD and use a hard drive for bulk storage).

The two types of drives have different performance characteristics and excel at different tasks. It's inaccurate to simply say that one is flat-out better than the other.

Ok, you got stuck on that specific quote. I did not mean that the VR will win in ALL benchmarks. You can read if you want the following quote when i say that ALL SSDs have faster access times (including the Kingston) and later that a computer user with a VR will in many cases (NOT ALL) feel his system more responsive.

So i am not saying that VR beats all and wins all. I am just trying to state the fact that there are crap SSDs out there that are not worth the money at all compared to a normal HDD, not even a VR. Now if you do not want to believe that... whatever.

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Reply to darkguset

I am using Patriot Torqx 128GB and it was HUGE improvement over 15krpm SAS disk which outperform any raptor.
I am using SSD just for OS (w7 Profesional) and few small basic applications and rest have on 1.5TB drive and it gives me around 15s boot time 5-7s shutdown (7s if it needs to close several applications).

Reply to xrodney

Mix it up I say!

SSD for OS and apps

VR for games and maybe some larger apps

7200RPM for storage/media

At least, that's what I plan on doing.

Message edited by Raidur on 12-14-2009 at 11:46:05 AM

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Reply to Raidur

darkguset wrote :

...and it would also be much more expensive! lol!

Not really...

I picked one up a month ago for $229.

Reply to cjl

If you just looking for a boot drives+applications. The 30gb OCZ is fine, a slimmed out Win 7 OS is only 7-8GB.
If you want a model with more space, go with the Intel 80gb SSD.

Newegg is having a OCZ SSD as it's shellshocker on Thursday morning.

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Reply to cory1234

HI,
I have two vertex 30gig in raid and I used the tools develop by the community in ocz website to set everything to be optimal, moving swap file temp and other thing I don't remember.
for the SSD drive you also have to update the firmware too the last version, to used windows 7 to it's full possibilty, meaning using of the trim command.
If you're not familar with any of thoses task or the process to doing it it's more easy and secure to get a velociraptor, 2X150 (258$ for 280gig of storage) in raid then setting everything for the ocz vertex. you will see an improvement in your systems and it's a little bit cheaper.

Reply to jive

darkguset wrote :

So i am not saying that VR beats all and wins all. I am just trying to state the fact that there are crap SSDs out there that are not worth the money at all compared to a normal HDD

And what I'm trying to say is that even the crap SSDs beat ANY hard drive in SOME respects. So whether they're "not worth the money" depends entirely on WHAT kind of performance you're looking for.

But I personally would spring for the extra cost of an Intel.

Reply to sminlal

cory1234 wrote :

Newegg is having a OCZ SSD as it's shellshocker on Thursday morning.

Good heads up

Message edited by Eng1neering on 12-14-2009 at 08:18:21 PM

Reply to Eng1neering

Hey guys. im going to be doing a new build soon. Will be running windows seven, rig will be for gaming ONLY. Music etc i keep on a removable wd hdd. Do you think a decent sdd (up to $600 budget tops) is the fastest choice? Been outa the loop for a while, was going to go vr's raid 0. Could get by on 150gb storage space min. Also Just wondering if there are an problems with ssd's malfuntioning etc.

Message edited by Anonymous on 12-15-2009 at 07:04:00 AM

Reply to Anonymous

Forum Storage : General Discussion VelociRaptors vs. SDD

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