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Core i7? No. An arm and a leg

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October 6, 2008 5:50:27 PM

Howdy folks,
We were just surfing as usual and found indications of the pricing for X58 boards. Wow. The cheapest one according to FudZ will be Intels at around $400. The more full featured ASUS board is said to be closer to $500.

I see a Deneb in a lot of futures.

Check out fudzilla for the whole story and some links.

More about : core arm leg

October 6, 2008 6:01:23 PM

Early indications seem to suggest that these new Intel processors are not going to be a huge step up for gamers at least, I wouldn't upgrade to these CPU's until there cheaper and Motherboards are more affordable.
Deneb probably wont take the performance lead, but they look set to be much faster and at the right price Intel will not have it so easy this time.
October 6, 2008 6:21:53 PM

I was just shocked that the first boards cost so much. From what was said the Intel board only has 4 slots instead of 6 which leaves one slot unused.


Oh and I'm come up with a new saying for the Brood:


Choice, we don't need no stinking choice.
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October 6, 2008 6:28:16 PM

Those prices are from the UK, they got some hefty taxes (17.5%) in the EU plus OCUK is price gouging as usual.

Just compare the i7 prices between UK and Canadian stores (also from Fuddo):

Quote:
In terms of pricing, well, they're not going to be cheap if you pre-order from OcUK as they want no less than £258.49 (€334/$454) for the Core i7 920, £469.99 (€607/$826) for the 940 and £822.49 (€1,062/$1,446) for the Core i7 965 Extreme Edition, all prices including VAT at 17.5 percent.

However, if you live in Canada and pre-order via PC Village, you'll end up spending a whole lot less as they're listing the Core i7 920 for C$339.95 (€229/£178), the 940 for C$649.95 (€439/£340) and finally the 965 Extreme Edition for C$1,099.95 (€742/£575), all prices in this case excluding sales tax.


In a snapshot (using Euros as the currency):
i7 920 - €334 (UK) vs €229 (Canada) 46% difference
i7 940 - €607 (UK) vs €439 (Canada) 38% difference
i7 965 - €1,062 (UK) vs €742 (Canada) 43% difference

OCUK is charging 40 - 45% higher prices than Canadian stores, apply the same rule to the mobos and its not nearly as daunting as you make it out to be, we're probably looking at ~$300 USD for decent X58 mobos, maybe a bit less for the stock standard Intel one. Even $300 is still very expensive mind you (for me anyway, I've never spent over $200 on a mobo), but its not frightening expensive for a high end mobo when you consider top end X48 mobos cost a similar amount and high end 790FX mobos are $200+. Don't forget you get both SLI + CF support with X58, so its a bit more flexible in regards to multi-GPU choice, a very welcome feature - now you don't have to choose between nVidia chipsets for SLI or CF with Intel chipsets.
October 6, 2008 6:31:14 PM

epsilon84 said:
Those prices are from the UK, they got some hefty taxes in the EU.


It's less the taxes than the fact that Britain is the ripoff capital of the world; when I lived there, for electronics I could generally assume that something that cost 100 dollars in America would cost 100 pounds in Britain, before tax.
a c 113 à CPUs
October 6, 2008 6:37:02 PM

I think i7 is the tock (or is it the tick?) primarily on the enterprise side and doesn't seem at initial launch to bring much to the desktop/gaming sector.

That doesn't mean that Intel won't improve i7 microprocessors and chipsets after the initial launch and eventually bring down costs to the desktop. Intel would never take advantage of their fans in rolling out new tech (rolling eyes) and neither would AMD.

It's just proof that the desktop gains little from massive parallell multithreading - and won't - for the foreseeable future. SMP just ain't worth it on the typical desktop regardless of multiple 'core envy' and marketing hype.

If the folks at videoguys are to be believed, not even Premiere or Vegas Pro really gain from 4+ parallel threads.
October 6, 2008 6:38:48 PM

MarkG said:
It's less the taxes than the fact that Britain is the ripoff capital of the world; when I lived there, for electronics I could generally assume that something that cost 100 dollars in America would cost 100 pounds in Britain, before tax.


That was certainly the case with the Nintendo SP. From a financial perspective, I'm glad I don't live there anymore.
October 6, 2008 6:49:50 PM

Wisecracker said:
If the folks at videoguys are to be believed, not even Premiere or Vegas Pro really gain from 4+ parallel threads.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if Premiere and Vega take a while to catch up to hardware changes.

But Avid Media Composer, for example, will already use at least four threads when that's possible; the main limitation, I believe, is third-party software (codecs, etc) which can't handle multiple threads.

Similarly, I believe Fusion will use as many threads as it can get for effects rendering. I don't know of any limit on the number of threads that Lightwave can use for 3D rendering, and I'm guessing that any 'pro' 3D package should be the same (3D rendering is about as multithreading friendly as you can get).
October 6, 2008 6:55:29 PM

Wisecracker said:
I think i7 is the tock (or is it the tick?) primarily on the enterprise side and doesn't seem at initial launch to bring much to the desktop/gaming sector.

That doesn't mean that Intel won't improve i7 microprocessors and chipsets after the initial launch and eventually bring down costs to the desktop. Intel would never take advantage of their fans in rolling out new tech (rolling eyes) and neither would AMD.

It's just proof that the desktop gains little from massive parallell multithreading - and won't - for the foreseeable future. SMP just ain't worth it on the typical desktop regardless of multiple 'core envy' and marketing hype.

If the folks at videoguys are to be believed, not even Premiere or Vegas Pro really gain from 4+ parallel threads.



I think it's the tock. The tick is the new arch(?)

The problem with threading for video processing is that if divide up the screen into sections, you still have to align the pixels with the same processing applied. But believe if you slap a GPU in with 800 processors it will increase since GPUs do much better at quick repeated processing (parallel).

I was hoping that the boards wouldn't be the $400+ that was hinted at. Prices are supposed to be going down.
October 6, 2008 7:02:26 PM

BaronMatrix said:
I was hoping that the boards wouldn't be the $400+ that was hinted at. Prices are supposed to be going down.


I'm convinced you have selective reading issues... its only that expensive in the UK, or as MarkG said the 'ripoff capital of the world'.

i7 920 - €334 (UK) vs €229 (Canada) 46% difference
i7 940 - €607 (UK) vs €439 (Canada) 38% difference
i7 965 - €1,062 (UK) vs €742 (Canada) 43% difference

Conclusion? OCUK price gouges the s*** out of everything! :sarcastic: 

October 6, 2008 7:05:47 PM

Its just like when 4x4 first came out (800 bucks just for the CPUs). If you're one of the early adopters for a new tech, you always need to bend over for it.
October 6, 2008 7:09:53 PM

The ironic thing is Baron had no issues back then with the $400 QuadFX mobo... ;) 
October 6, 2008 7:15:32 PM

Yep yomamafor1 is right in here. The prizes will come down after a while. If you want to be the first, it's gonna cost you some premium.
The most important thing is that they are actually coming. It's biggest change in Intel Architecture for long time.
Amd and Intel will be closer together in chip archicultural perspective than in long time, pity that Intel have so big manufacturing technology advantage. Othervice we would see some fierce competition in here in all levels.
October 6, 2008 7:27:32 PM

Im just hoping Intel doesnt set up a 2 tier system. The highend Penryns will come down in price, but should be competitive to like i7s. If they reduce all their Penryns, theyll be competing against themselves. Honestly, it would be good if AMDs cpus kick some tail. Im thinki9ng along these lines. If AMDs top chip kicks, and is affordable, itll effect Penryns pricing mainly, and i7s slightly, just like weve seen in the ATI vs nVidia pricing. The 9800x2 is incredibly cheap and is one of the top cards out, and thats only because of ATIs low entry pricing/performance. So having a decent showing from AMD would benefit us, not so much the early adopters going after i7, but everyone else
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October 6, 2008 7:36:27 PM

epsilon84 said:
I'm convinced you have selective reading issues...


:) 

Don't feed the trolls! This is typical BaronMatrix style. Come on here quoting an unreliable source just to start an anti-Intel thread. Of course the initial boards will be expensive. Remember this is the X58 chipset. The current X48 chipset boards run well over $200.
October 6, 2008 7:36:51 PM

epsilon84 said:
The ironic thing is Baron had no issues back then with the $400 QuadFX mobo... ;) 



You mean the one I DIDN'T BUY? I guess I didn't.
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October 6, 2008 7:41:15 PM

You should be happy. With all that BS you ranted about Intel charging to little for its cpus. Now the troll complains about the hardware priced high. Nothing but a troll
a b à CPUs
October 6, 2008 7:41:26 PM

Baron you must have selective memory also. You spent months singing the praises of QuadFX. What was it you called yourself? Was it "Megatasker" LOL
October 6, 2008 7:42:50 PM

shortstuff_mt said:
:) 

Don't feed the trolls! This is typical BaronMatrix style. Come on here quoting an unreliable source just to start an anti-Intel thread. Of course the initial boards will be expensive. Remember this is the X58 chipset. The current X48 chipset boards run well over $200.



Hush Broodite. These prices came from an online store. Not an unreliable source. The Striker is OVER $400 (780i). And that's NOT X58. It was interesting news. Thought I would share it. According the average price for X48 is above $300. They've been out a while. Now is the time when Intel starts to raise their prices again. They will drop a few "mainstream" chips (ok one, but everything else will be above $500)
Anonymous
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October 6, 2008 7:43:48 PM

nehalem isn't worth it for average desktop builders or gamers... or even avid ones... it is just a money pool that you'll get 5 % more performance out of... if even that

I'll stick with my q9550 at 3.85 ghz for a couple years.... or atleast until the next BIG step
October 6, 2008 7:46:18 PM

someguy7 said:
You should be happy. With all that BS you ranted about Intel charging to little for its cpus. Now the troll complains about the hardware priced high. Nothing but a troll



I never said that. I said they dropped the bottom out of desktop pricing to hurt AMD. It may even be contributing to this current financial crisis. I mean, there was point last year when volume increased but revenue didn't Inflation took its toll and a lot of people (companies) weren't generated enough income. CRASH!!!

Hell, even Dell and HP had to restructure (read: layoff folks) but that's probably a coincidence. Hell how could CPU prices affect PC manufacturers? I'd wonder if Porsche suddenly slashed their prices too. Or any other company.
October 6, 2008 7:46:41 PM

BaronMatrix said:
You mean the one I DIDN'T BUY? I guess I didn't.


LOL I can't be bothered digging up your old posts, maybe TC will do it and show how much of a hypocrite you are. :lol: 

a b à CPUs
October 6, 2008 7:51:52 PM

Not for nothing, but are higher than anticipated prices for any of Intel's latest and greatest tech anything out of the ordinary? Let's face it, it's no real surprise that early adopters are going to pay premium (*cough*price gouged*cough*) for bragging rights. As usual, you are better of waiting at least 6 months after the initial release for prices to stabilize and drop to more realistic levels.

speedbird said:
Early indications seem to suggest that these new Intel processors are not going to be a huge step up for gamers at least, I wouldn't upgrade to these CPU's until there cheaper and Motherboards are more affordable.
Deneb probably wont take the performance lead, but they look set to be much faster and at the right price Intel will not have it so easy this time.

I hear ya! The prelim benches suggest an average of 10% perf increase over Core2 in single threaded applications; which is most games. Almost better off sticking with or buying an E8600 or Q9300 over Nehalem.

Deneb won't take the performance lead but AMD will slip right into their favorite price/performance niche and appeal to the enthusiast and seemingly try to duplicate their success like with the X2's. I have to admit, the 790FX chipset with the 750 southbridge is becoming more and more appealing expecially considering the auto-overclocking features. My guess is the Deneb and the SB750 mobos will be priced just right for most bang for the buck; especially if Deneb clocks are over 3GHz.

Generally speaking, it seems to me that a fast dual core is the mainstream and will be the best bet for most gamers and casual users until software catches up and can take advantage of mutliple cores.
October 6, 2008 7:53:27 PM

The mobos should be cheaper actually, with the IMC, theres one less component. Entry products are always higher. i7 will cost more, it should, it does give improvements, maybe not alot at ST, but overall it does. I dont believe in future proofing, and even getting a quad seems a little early at this point, as Im mainly a gamer. A year from now? If you plan on keeping this cpu for over a year, and have to have an upgrade, Id still wait for all the bugs to get ironed out, let the early adopters pay the higher price, and let them live with the bugs. By March or so, the prices should be better, and the bugs should be ironed out
October 6, 2008 7:55:48 PM

$500 is pretty high. It will, eventually, drop. Cheaper 775 chips will be around for a while yet. I don't know when Intel plans to stop making 775 chips, but I suspect it won't be for a while yet, considering how many 775 boards are still floating around out there.
a c 127 à CPUs
October 6, 2008 8:05:14 PM

BaronMatrix said:
I think it's the tock. The tick is the new arch(?)

The problem with threading for video processing is that if divide up the screen into sections, you still have to align the pixels with the same processing applied. But believe if you slap a GPU in with 800 processors it will increase since GPUs do much better at quick repeated processing (parallel).

I was hoping that the boards wouldn't be the $400+ that was hinted at. Prices are supposed to be going down.


No the tick is the die shrink, the tock is the new arch. Hence Conroe (tock), Penryn (tick), Nehalem (tock) and then Westmere (tick).

Its easy to understand and has been around for 4 years in 2009.

The boards are not going to be $400+. If you read everything then you see it is from the UK which is always known for its uber higher than needed prices. Hell a lot of places outside the US are like that. Australia being one too. Even when we have a good deal on anything here it will normally be higher there.

So stop trying to use FUD. I mean this is sad. You went from using AMD crap to using something from another part of the world that wont affect the majority of people on the forums (from the US). Yes there are those from the UK and other places but the obviously know about this.

Shame on you BM

BaronMatrix said:
I never said that. I said they dropped the bottom out of desktop pricing to hurt AMD. It may even be contributing to this current financial crisis. I mean, there was point last year when volume increased but revenue didn't Inflation took its toll and a lot of people (companies) weren't generated enough income. CRASH!!!

Hell, even Dell and HP had to restructure (read: layoff folks) but that's probably a coincidence. Hell how could CPU prices affect PC manufacturers? I'd wonder if Porsche suddenly slashed their prices too. Or any other company.


Oh yea. Intel somehow influenced the financial instatution to invest in sub-prime mortgages and then told them to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. Thats what they did. The current economy is all Intels fault. Dude I worked for Citi. It was the financial instatutions fault and its all because of THEM that the economy is in such a down spiral, not technology leaders. In fact if you pay attention a lot of the more recent financial instatutions that have been going down the drain or have been doing bad have had CEOs who took them that path, Citi being one with out last CEO who also quit and got a nice $125million parting package for putting Citi in a horrible position. Go figure.

HP and Dell restructured for 2 reasons. 1 they plan to move more of their PC manufacturing over seas where its cheaper for them so they will make more money and 2 they are feeling the effects of less people buying new PCs because of the uncertainty of the economy. Believe me they make money when they get the CPUs for less since they buy them in bulk. Where we may pay $300 for a CPU, they pay $250 or less because of the bulk discount from both AMD and Intel.

Stop trying to blame Intel for the economical crap we are in and stop trying to spread FUD.

You call them the brood when you are just a AMD zealiot to the bone. Thats just sad. Common BM you should be better than this.
a c 127 à CPUs
October 6, 2008 8:07:44 PM

snarfies1 said:
$500 is pretty high. It will, eventually, drop. Cheaper 775 chips will be around for a while yet. I don't know when Intel plans to stop making 775 chips, but I suspect it won't be for a while yet, considering how many 775 boards are still floating around out there.


From what I have seen and heard mid to late 2009, after Havendale the dual core comes out, will be the last LGA775 CPU put out. During 2009 we will see the FABs being changed to do Nehalem only and probably begining of 2010 we will see no more LGA775 CPUs and the mobos will probably go out before that.
October 6, 2008 8:25:54 PM

Baron, I dont usually talk directly to you, and Ive been in the same threads lots of times. Ill say this. Thinking Intels pricing and the subsequent AMD reaction has had nothing to do with our present economy. Youre seeing this as too personal. These are only chips, thats it. One house at 300,000$ is how many chips? While I agree i7 looks to be an expensive chip overall, and being this early on, so is the new memory, and its not even refined yet for timings like it will become. Intel more or less told the memory manus to keep it sane, but they didnt, and thats going to set the timings back, and keep prices high, as this is the only segment they can charge this much on. The mobo and all the bio's will get better both in pricing and performance, but therell be a premium on them as well, and stay priced slightly higher than what youd expect, but not outlandishly so. Yes, i7 is going to cost, and alot of people buying first will have to more than likely have to change their mempry if they want to keep up, and it wont be cheap, but this is intro pricing with a few caveates, so a lil higher than usual, and likely to remain a lil higher than usual. All this does is allow for Deneb to come in at a decent price and be able to better compete, so Im not sure why you have to dig in on Intel with this, as it benefits AMD as well
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October 6, 2008 9:29:14 PM

Without AMD to challenge them on the higher end they can charge whatever they want on the top end parts. They don't want to cut into their Core 2 and Core Quad segments until they've cleared out those parts and the MB chipsets that support them. I have no pity for the early adopters, just like I didn't have any pitty for the people who rushed out to buy a 280 just before the 4870 Launched :D .
a c 127 à CPUs
October 6, 2008 9:53:42 PM

^Um this isn't the CPU. And Intel does not control the mobo pricing at all apart from the price of the chipset. Mostly I think that mobo makers charge more for Intel based mobos because they know they will sell more right now. Same would happen if AMD was the top of the crop.
October 6, 2008 10:00:07 PM

No, I think its just Intel. Intel branded boards are always more expensive than the other brands. Example, the Bad Axe 2 is still $230.
October 6, 2008 10:18:28 PM

Who cares if Intel an Asus mobos are expensive. The onees for testing are the premium Overclocking boards, of course they are expensive. Premium boards now are as well.

If you dont want to pay for a premium board buy from ECS or Biostar. They will be available at decent prices. Have you ever heard of competion?
October 6, 2008 10:58:08 PM

BaronMatrix said:
Hush Broodite. These prices came from an online store. Not an unreliable source. The Striker is OVER $400 (780i). And that's NOT X58. It was interesting news. Thought I would share it. According the average price for X48 is above $300. They've been out a while. Now is the time when Intel starts to raise their prices again. They will drop a few "mainstream" chips (ok one, but everything else will be above $500)


This Striker http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
The one thats under $300?

Even some of the 790i's are under $300 on newegg.
October 6, 2008 11:06:03 PM

The 790i Striker 2 Extreme is $450. However the 780i Striker 2 Formula is $300, think thats the one silent was linking.

And actually the "average price" for the X48 is under $300. There are 16 different models of X48 between $200 and $300, while there are only 6 above $300. Not to mention there are 9 of them at $230 or below.
October 6, 2008 11:06:04 PM

Not intended to be a flame, but this is what happens when one company produces the "best" technology on the market. Prices go up because the other "competition" isn't competitive. 500$+ mobo and 1500+ chip with 1100$ ram (3x2gb 1800 ram. . .cheap ram = poor overclocking) as well as any other parts you might want. The Nehalem upgrade isn't going to come cheap. You might as well wait for Christmas 09 when the desktop versions are supposed to arrive. Or buy AMD.
October 6, 2008 11:09:43 PM

spathotan said:
The 790i Striker 2 Extreme is $450. However the 780i Striker 2 Formula is $300, think thats the one silent was linking.

And actually the "average price" for the X48 is under $300. There are 21 different models of X48 between $200 and $300, while there are only 6 above $300.



Yeah, c/p'd wrong page. But he even specified the 780i in his post.
October 6, 2008 11:15:39 PM

The mobos and the CPUs are going to be quite expensive at launch. The intial Nehalems are going to be socket 1366, which is designed for server and Extreme Edition CPUs - both of which command enormous premiums..

The mainstream Socket 1160 chips are due in H1/09, as well as a budget version (socket 715).
October 6, 2008 11:55:27 PM

socket 715? Does that mean # of contacts? I think that will be the first time in Intel history that a superseding socket had fewer pins than its predecessor.
October 6, 2008 11:58:43 PM

BaronMatrix said:
You mean the one I DIDN'T BUY? I guess I didn't.



Funny, after bombarding us for 3 (yes 3) months with 'im buying a QFX', you chose not to buy it because of some excuse about the RAM, not becuase of the the price....so you said. Go ahead, tell me thats BS....watch how fast I pull the threads up.

October 7, 2008 12:07:11 AM

I still remember him blaming it all on Windows' lack of support for NUMA... then he started yapping about how great the platform is when FASN8 was around the corner.

I can see that it left a permanent scar when AMD decided to drop that platform. :sarcastic: 
October 7, 2008 12:09:18 AM

joefriday said:
socket 715? Does that mean # of contacts? I think that will be the first time in Intel history that a superseding socket had fewer pins than its predecessor.


715 is supposed to be for the budget series. IIRC, it is only to support a dualcore and has no IMC.
October 7, 2008 12:13:57 AM

hmm...no IMC and dual core. How is that different than a penryn?
October 7, 2008 12:17:08 AM

This one features MG.
October 7, 2008 12:20:04 AM

Just Googling - and it appears that it's not much different (except 32nm).

Apparently, it's going to have a 1xQuickPath to the northbridge, so it could even be used to support DDR2.

Not a very current link, but probably the best I've found yet:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/540
October 7, 2008 12:20:11 AM

MG = magical giblets?

EDIT: thanks for the link DOS.
October 7, 2008 12:21:13 AM

MoneyGrab
October 7, 2008 12:22:44 AM

silent_744 said:
This Striker http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
The one thats under $300?

Even some of the 790i's are under $300 on newegg.


I went to Newegg and all X48s were quite above $300. I was commenting that it seems like AMD has an in IF Deneb is really faster than Penryn as has been reported. 790FX mobos are sitting around $200 with all the features. the 780a from nVidia is even more than 790FXs.
a b à CPUs
October 7, 2008 12:23:06 AM

I want Magical Giblets
October 7, 2008 12:23:33 AM

turpit said:
Funny, after bombarding us for 3 (yes 3) months with 'im buying a QFX', you chose not to buy it because of some excuse about the RAM, not becuase of the the price....so you said. Go ahead, tell me thats BS....watch how fast I pull the threads up.




I think it's that I don't really like you.
October 7, 2008 12:24:43 AM

No, all X48s are not quite above $300. I just typed out the prices in grand detail. There is no balking around this, AMD board prices are irrelivent to it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E... There you go, right there. I even went ahead and listed them lowest to highest for you. Count them, please. See if you come up with the same 6(SIX) $300+ boards as I do, out of 23 total.
!