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720 tri-core + 1066 ddr2 = cant overclock ?

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September 15, 2009 9:12:47 AM

hi guys got a problem :-9 need some advice from the pro's
heres my system spec:

Thermaltake 700watt PSU
AMD phenom 720 x3 core (2.8ghz)
Gigabyte OC 4890 1GB DDR5 <- (latest drivers)
Silicone Xpower 4GB 1066 DDR2 -2 channel
Asus MX68 ---ddr2 1066 compatible MB--- <- (latest drivers)

Problem:

when running prevous 2gb of 800MHZ i can run overclock to 3.0 and above fine.
post menu showed : GANGED MODE

but when i got the new 1066 4gb and change bios to settings 533MHZ (1066) and voltage to 2.0 (recomended on box)
i can only run standard 2.8ghz or i get "ATI VPU RECOVER" something about not being able to meet 'driver demands"(when loading up some games) and also some lag spikes in others. even on auto %7 overclock profile it cannot.
after changing to 533MHZ and 2.0v for 1066 to work, the post screen showed : UNGANGED MODE

but when ram settings on "auto" (runs only on 800mhz) i can overclock fine? as well.



Question:

Why can i not overclock when running 1066MHZ mode? above standard with errors?

note*
Runs fine at stock 2.8GHZ with the ram set at 1066 (shows 1066 on post screen)
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September 15, 2009 10:09:49 AM

Don't force it to run at 1066 by selecting 533. You should have the option of an Auto setting, or a 1:2 or 1:1 ratio, or failing that, set it to 400MHz. You should be able to get back to 3GHz and beyond.

Here's a bit on Ganged/Unganged Mode:
Officially, the classic ganged mode provides the fastest memory access in single-threaded applications, while the unganged mode is called to improve the performance of multi-threaded software.

As for the question if we were right, the 0.1 point (0.1%) difference is hardly a reason to start using the Unganged mode in primary tests. Especially as the Ganged mode is motherboard default, and even the 10 times higher value (1%) would still be negligible as a possible measurement error.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/amd-phenom-x4-9850-ganged-unganged-p1.html
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September 15, 2009 3:00:39 PM

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/amd-phenom-x4-9850-ga...

This link is outdated, and focus's on benchmarks from the original Phenoms, which quite frankly were a big disappointment. In other words, they were crap.
The new Phenom II's run by default unganged, and it is best to leave them running unganged.

The reason you cannot overclock with the 1066 memory is because you are running it much closer to it's upper threshold of stability to start with. When you start overclocking, you are pushing it too far. The 800mhz memory you had apparently was decent memory, and at 800mhz was running conservatively, it simply could stand much more overclocking on the bus. I bought memory rated at 1200mhz, so my 1066 memory, being guarenteed to run at 1200, overclocks quite well.
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September 15, 2009 7:00:07 PM

so if i set my memory at 533MHZ and 2.1v

how does that effect me running my "cpu" manualy set at 3.0GHZ...

can i not run 1066 with a mild overclock of my cpu?

whats the point in even having 1066 if i cant even do anything with it


this is with ram settings at auto, and auto overclock profile %7

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September 15, 2009 7:09:08 PM

Ok, the reason you are having this issue has nothing to do with the ram itself... The memory controller that you have on your CPU is the issue here. Most AMD platforms will have an issue running 1066Mhz regardless. 1066Mhz ram is really 800Mhz designed to run at a higher speed with a voltage increase.

Here is the good news, I had the exact same issue trying to run my OCZ 1066Mhz at 2.1/2.2v and it was impossible to get the system stable no matter what I did... I decided to run them at 800Mhz and it is stable as a rock. Now one thing you should take into consideration is the fact that there is only a 4% performance increase overall when you compare PC2-6400 to PC2-8500.... I run my x2 550 at 3.85Ghz on a daily basis using PC2-6400 at 866Mhz....

As far as Ganged/Unganged mode, just leave it Unganed and you will be fine...
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September 15, 2009 7:18:01 PM

OvrClkr said:
Ok, the reason you are having this issue has nothing to do with the ram itself... The memory controller that you have on your CPU is the issue here. Most AMD platforms will have an issue running 1066Mhz regardless. 1066Mhz ram is really 800Mhz designed to run at a higher speed with a voltage increase.

Here is the good news, I had the exact same issue trying to run my OCZ 1066Mhz at 2.1/2.2v and it was impossible to get the system stable no matter what I did... I decided to run them at 800Mhz and it is stable as a rock. Now one thing you should take into consideration is the fact that there is only a 4% performance increase overall when you compare PC2-6400 to PC2-8500.... I run my x2 550 at 3.85Ghz on a daily basis using PC2-6400 at 866Mhz....

As far as Ganged/Unganged mode, just leave it Unganed and you will be fine...



but i didnt change it from ganged/unganged, just changed after setting manualy MHZ for ram and voltage,

so basicaly i can only run at 800MHZ? at 2.0v??? :-(

so i just wasted 130 bucks lol?, i posted a few 800mhz vs 1066 threads (with my system specs) and none
said "oh yeah 1066 is faster but........... you cant overclock with it,,,, AT ALL", wouldnt of bought it if so...
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September 15, 2009 7:22:43 PM

No, at 800Mhz you would run it at either 1.8/1.9v, but make sure you set the timings correctly as well. Check the SPD tab in CPU-Z and you should have a better understanding of how you should set your timings.

130 bucks for 2x2Gb of 1066Mhz?
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September 15, 2009 7:36:16 PM

Having to use my FSB to OC my 710, my decisions are made for me, lol. My new daily set up is FSB@250, so dropping my ram to 4x runs it at 1000mhz. At stock CPU clock, I am able to raise it to 5.33x, but only by raising the voltage to 2.0v, as well. My mobo autodetected the timings accurately, and overclocked and dropped to 4x gave me much tighter timings, essentially the rated timings @1066 that I could never get it to run at (5-6-6-18).
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September 15, 2009 7:47:06 PM

@ OP Are you overclocking via the multiplier or the bus speed? If you use the bus speed, then that is the problem, since it will also overclock the ram. And at 1066mhz, the ram is almost as high as it will go already. Also, manually set your overclock. Do not use an auto overclocking profile like you said for the screenshot.
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September 15, 2009 8:31:13 PM

when i set the ram for 1066, i cant use autooverclock

and..

i also cant change it to manual, and use the FSB multiplyer, same thing graphics errors and lag spikes also, but will work okay with FSB multiplyer set at 2.8,

130 bucks NZD (50 or 60 u.s) --i think,,

--> how i lust for 3.2 GHZ / 1066 MHZ,, HOW BLOODY GAY!!!!!!
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September 15, 2009 8:44:46 PM

^ Um, I have no idea what you just said and I'm not going to guess at it. If you want help, clearly answer the questions asked of you.
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September 15, 2009 10:18:01 PM

when ram settings = auto
cpu settings = auto

result =runs fine

when ram settings = 533mhz, 2.1v
cpu settings = auto

result = runs fine

when ramsettings = 533mhz, 2.1v
cpu settings = 200MHZ / fsb multiplyer (=3.0)

result = graphical errors and sudden lag spikes

when ram settings = auto
cpu settings = auto overclock %7 (800 mhz displayed in post screen)

result = runs fine



--when ever it is set to 1066 MHZ ram frequency i cannot get any stable overclock above my cpu's stock 2.8GHZ weather its auto overclock profile, or manualy setting the frequency or using the fsb multplyer

hopefuly thats enough information
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September 15, 2009 10:45:55 PM

So, just to confirm.
Ram set at 1066 and 2.0v manually, CPU OC'd to 3.0ghz using FSB Multiplier x 15 (FSB@200 and CPU volts on auto) = unstable?

If so, try bumping the ram to 2.1v. If that works, then you know that your ram needs a little more than the recommended volts (but 2.1 is still in safe range for 1066 rated Ram)

If that doesn't help at all, return your ram to 2.0 and try bumping your CPU voltage by .025 (take it off auto). If that works, then you know you have a chip that is greedy for volts.

That's all I got for ya.
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September 15, 2009 11:58:36 PM

cheers for your help mate il try that tonight,

note, when v at 1.9v, writing is blue, above that is green, and 2.1 writing changes to pink,
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September 16, 2009 6:20:51 PM

My BIOS also has the +.300v in pink. It is because 1066 DDR2 ram on AMD is just OC stably ram, as the mobo is limited to 800mhz by default, and running 800mhz at 2.1v is definitely a pink setting, lol.
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Best solution

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September 17, 2009 7:41:46 AM

rodney007 said:
when ram settings = auto
cpu settings = auto

result =runs fine

when ram settings = 533mhz, 2.1v
cpu settings = auto

result = runs fine

when ramsettings = 533mhz, 2.1v
cpu settings = 200MHZ / fsb multiplyer (=3.0)

result = graphical errors and sudden lag spikes

when ram settings = auto
cpu settings = auto overclock %7 (800 mhz displayed in post screen)

result = runs fine



--when ever it is set to 1066 MHZ ram frequency i cannot get any stable overclock above my cpu's stock 2.8GHZ weather its auto overclock profile, or manualy setting the frequency or using the fsb multplyer

hopefuly thats enough information


There is no FSB multiplier, the FSB is set at 200 by default... Leave that alone till you have a stable system. Set your ram to 533Mhz and keep using 2.1v ..... Once stable, you can increase the FSB in increments, you will also notice that by raising your FSB you are also raising your RAM's speed as well... Here is an example :

2x2Gb of DDR2 800Mhz running at 900Mhz






The multipliers are for the CPU and North Bridge (NB)... you can raise the CPU multiplier but leave the NB at x10 2000Mhz
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September 17, 2009 1:55:36 PM

Yeah, that is what I said, but it was my typo, lol. I meant to type CPU mulitplier (instead of FSB mulitplier) but yeah, what he said.
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September 17, 2009 7:23:50 PM

ok il make this simple,

533 MHZ / 2.1 V - ram settings (like iv been told to do)

(so now its in 1066 mode and running at standard 2.8GHZ)

ok, so lets try and get more than 2.8 GHZ from the CPU!!!!!!-this is the problem,



ok il change the cpu frequency ----from 200MHZ to 210MHZ, OH NO COMPUTER DOESNT LIKE THAT AND GIVES STARTUP ERRORS,

ok so.... il change the cpu multiplyer, to x16.5 (at 200MHZ) = 3.0 GHZ
OH NO DOESNT LIKE THAT EITHER,,, ok ok il change back to 400 MHZ and hopefuly
doing what iv just done will over clock my ram above 800MHZ along with my cpu RATHER than overclocking above 1066, OH NO just stays at 800 mhz,


can someone please please tell me how? all these damn new words being said by different ppl meaning different things, theres only a few options in there sureley it cant be that hard... i just want 2.8GHZ---> 3.0 GHZ and 1066 MHZ ram THATS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,

is that too much for a boy to ask for!!!

cheers
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September 17, 2009 7:45:44 PM

DUDE, you ram has NOTHING to do with your CPU overclock. When you raise the FSB you are barely raising the CPU clock, if that does not work like you stated then leave the bus alone at 200 and raise your CPU voltage and multiplier to achieve a higher more stable clock.

For example : I have 2 sets of RAM, 1 set is 2x2GB of OCZ 1066Mhz that HAS to run at either 2.1/2.2v to operate. But my CPU cannot handle that RAM at 1066Mhz without crashing, so what did I do? I lowered the frequency from 533 to 400 and lowered the voltage to 1.9v. Of course I ended up swapping the OCZ's for some G.Skill 800 Mhz that are even faster than the OCZ's due to lower timings... That does not mean I am putting my CPU clock at jeopardy since I can still get 4.0Ghz using DDR2 800 modules...

In other words my G.Skill's are faster and more stable @ 800Mhz compared to my OCZ's that are suposed to run at 1066MHZ.... Get the idea?

First off, lower your RAM from 533 to 400 and lower the RAM voltage to 1.8/1.9v (just to check for stability)... make sure your timings are correct also, memtest your ram (if you have not done this) and check for errors. If you ram is good to go try overclocking your CPU but leave your RAM at 400 (800Mhz) just to see how high the CPU can go... later on you can try running your ram at 1066 once your clock is stable...
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September 17, 2009 8:32:25 PM

I can get stable clock at 3.2 GHZ @ 800 MHZ . 1.9 , 2.0 or 2.1

as soon as i change it to 533MHZ i get unstabilty? above 2.8GHZ cpu with voltage of ram at 1.9 2.0 or 2.1,


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September 17, 2009 9:09:28 PM

rodney007 said:
I can get stable clock at 3.2 GHZ @ 800 MHZ . 1.9 , 2.0 or 2.1

as soon as i change it to 533MHZ i get unstabilty? above 2.8GHZ cpu with voltage of ram at 1.9 2.0 or 2.1,


The problem is not your ram nor the board it self, the reason you cannot run at 1066Mhz is due to the fact that the CPU cannot run stable enough using that RAM voltage... 1066Mhz ram is really 800Mhz designed to run at higher speeds with a VOLTAGE increase, if that increase causes instability then you must run your ram at 800Mhz and you should be able to raise the FSB to at least 210/215... Like I said my PC runs faster using DDR2 800 vs. DDR2 1066 .... Why? cause 800Mhz is J-dec standard for DDR2, 1066Mhz was really intended for DDR3 only but someone had the nuts to overide that rule and companies ended up producing DDR2 1066Mhz.... This issue is very common with AMD platforms, Intel's run fine using DDR2 1066Mhz.....
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September 17, 2009 9:19:10 PM

rodney007 said:
I can get stable clock at 3.2 GHZ @ 800 MHZ . 1.9 , 2.0 or 2.1

as soon as i change it to 533MHZ i get unstabilty? above 2.8GHZ cpu with voltage of ram at 1.9 2.0 or 2.1,


Here is a pic without touching the FSB and still using DDR2 800 :




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May 11, 2010 6:49:18 PM

Jedec has a standard for 1066 @ 6/6/6 or 7/7/7 with 1.8-1.9 voltage. For anyone saying 1066mhz is simply overclocked 800mhz you are wrong!

With a Black Edition cpu you do not want to raise the cpu clock; instead raise the cpu's multiplier. I got my 720 BE to 3ghz @ 16x multiplier and stock voltage stable. I also have Corsair Dominator 2x2gb kit that states 5/5/5/15/22 T2 @ 2.1 volts 1066mhz but it is not stable. I am forced to use 800mhz. Instead of 6/6/6/15/22 T2, fastest for this ram using Jedec specs, I use 4/4/4/5/13 T1 and subtimings lowered as well.

My same Dominator pair were stable in another AMD motherboard before it @ the stated speeds and timings.
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May 11, 2010 6:58:04 PM

I forgot to add this here.
Unganged may be lowering your tRAS by 2 clocks as does my A7DA-S Foxconn motherboard.
If you have two channels that your BIOS allows individual clocks like DCT0 and DCT1 you may try adding 2 clocks to the second, DCT1, tRAS for 15 instead of 12.
Look under CPU-Tweaker and it should show channels A and B and their individual clocks.
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