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DX 10.1, should I care?

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  • Directx
  • Nvidia
  • Graphics
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August 24, 2008 3:21:11 PM

Hey,

I was originally planning to go with a GTX280 from NVIDIA, but then I found out it doesn't support DirectX 10.1 (and Pixel Shader 4.1). Should I be worried? Can something like this be updated with a driver, or is it fixed with the card you get? Either way, should I just stick with NVIDIA, or should I maybe consider getting a card that supports DX10.1?

More about : care

August 24, 2008 3:31:16 PM

If you care, get a 4870x2. It's better anyways.

I don't think 10.1 will ever be popular since 11 is just around the corner.
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 3:32:28 PM

(he asked a ? just answer it.)
anyway in my opinion dont worry about dx10.1 or shader 4.1 because games today wont support it. the next big thing is dx11. go for the gtx 280 its a great card but drivers wont make it support dx10.1. its a little on the expensive side when comparing to the 4870.
if u have the money get the gtx280 but if on a slightly tighter budget go for the 4870.
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 3:50:04 PM

the guy just joined aug, 20 2008 cut the guy some slack. lol.
=]
August 24, 2008 3:50:17 PM

DEFEDR OF TEH TOMSHARDWARRR FORUMZ!!11 ^^^
August 24, 2008 3:55:17 PM

As long as nvidia refuses to support it game developers won't use it. The only case where it could matter is with dx11. I'm getting the impression that dx11 will be more compatible with dx10.1 hardware, might even be fully compatible, meaning you don't need new hardware at all.
August 24, 2008 4:00:58 PM

The 280 GTX ($400), is about 100-200$ cheaper than the 4870 X2, so for now I'd say the 280 GTX has a better price/performance ratio.

Unless you can find a 4870 X2 for 500$ I don't think it would be worth it over the 280 GTX:) 

Games will be more into DX11, but doesn't mean that DX 10.1 won't benefit, since DX11 will be backwards compatible and still have all the goodies the DX10.1 cards have to offer:) 
August 24, 2008 4:34:36 PM

DX10/10.1 why worry about them when so few programs support them in the first place?

August 24, 2008 4:39:30 PM

I thought that DX 10.1 cards are going to be fully compatible with DX 11 (unlike DX 10 cards). Therefore, if this is the case, then yes, you should care about DX 10.1
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 4:50:43 PM

dx10.1 i believe will support some features in dx11.
August 24, 2008 4:53:02 PM

I agree with Greg86. Everyone forgets that DX 11 will be fully backwards compatible, but only with hardware that supports both DX 10 and DX 10.1.
If the card only supports DX 10 like the GT 200 series, then its not going to work.

So the HD 4800 cards already support DX 11. Combine that with its current performance and you are looking at a card with serious longevity.
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 5:22:44 PM

MrKbot said:
I agree with Greg86. Everyone forgets that DX 11 will be fully backwards compatible, but only with hardware that supports both DX 10 and DX 10.1.
If the card only supports DX 10 like the GT 200 series, then its not going to work.

So the HD 4800 cards already support DX 11. Combine that with its current performance and you are looking at a card with serious longevity.


if its a gtx 200 series it wont work?
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 5:49:16 PM

Just a head's up here, Direct X 11 isn't slated to be released until late 2009. That's well over a year away. So, telling the OP to wait until DX11 is really just like telling him to wait another year or so to buy another video card...not cool..

To the OP - should you are about DX10.1. Yes and No, for games that support it, you will get all the eye candy and visual glory that goes with the API; eye candy and visuals that you will not get with cards/games that do not support DX10.1. And, for games that don't support it, then it's a non issue.

Truly tho, whether or not you should care about DX10.1 is a lesser question to what card you should get. In my opinion, the 4870 is the sweet spot right now for video cards. ATI got it right with this round of gpu's with the GTX2xx series being over priced and over hyped.

So to add my $.02 to this mish-mash, get a 4870 to use for the next year or so and then plan on buying another video card early 2010 after DX11 is released and there are games and gpu's on the market that actually support and use it.
August 24, 2008 6:11:22 PM

Sorry for not searching first...

If DX10.1 cards will work with DX11, but not DX10 cards, well then that makes me want to get a DX10.1 card. Is this certain?

I suppose it also may be worth mentioning that I'm a bit of a DirectX developer in training, if that changes anyone's opinions.

An ATI solution is seeming better and better to me. I'm getting an ASUS mobo with an Intel chipset, that doesn't support SLI (which doesn't really bother me since I wasn't planning on using it), but it did support Crossfire (which did bother me - logically if not having SLI didnt bother me than having Crossfire shouldn't either, but I still felt a bit weird).

Budget isn't too much of an issue with me, as long as I'm not wasting my money. If the benefit I'm getting is worth the price, I'll get it, and being future-proof for DX 11 is worth a fair amount to me.
August 24, 2008 6:39:36 PM

It depends whether or not the hype about DX 10.1 being faster at antialiasing than DX10 and generally "Faster" actually hold out to be true. Don't mention assassin's creed. Yes I know about it and no that doesn't count. There needs to be solid proof on multiple titles and that hasn't happened yet.
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 6:44:48 PM

If you are a developer, why didn't you search MSDN?

Here is a techie link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb694530(VS.85).aspx

With all of the DX 10.0 cards already sold, game developers will either target 10.0 only or write different routines for both. I would imagine that most will stick with 10.0.

And don't forget that they can still target 9.0L on Vista too. Given the failures of Vista, developers will want to target XP too (9.0c). Many will write to the lowest common denominator. :p 
August 24, 2008 6:51:01 PM

Because soooo many games have supported directx 10, I'm sure soooo many will support 10.1 and 11 lol.
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 6:57:14 PM

just stick with dx10. no need to future proof. in tech world there is no such term as future proof.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
August 24, 2008 7:35:27 PM

Features: DX10.1>DX10.0>DX9.0C
Performance: HD4870X2>GF9800GX2>GTX280>HD4870>GTX260>HD4850>GF9800GTX<HD3870

It depends which of those two lines matters most to you.

Unlike the DX10/DX9 break games coded for DX11 will enable DX10.1 features on DX10.1-only cards and DX10 features on DX10-only cards. There won't be the same division between generations.

So DX10.1 will definitely matter at some point, but it's the future not now, and whether or not that matter to you depends on you.

And a little search will show you enough to let you decide, if you care enough you should be able to educate yourself well enough to determine whether it matters or not to you.
August 24, 2008 7:57:03 PM

@L1qu1d: I dunno how about USA but we Europeans got gtx280 for just 20 Euro cheaper than HD4870 X2...

As for the DX10.1 goes... you shoudn't care that much, when dx11 will come out you will want to change your VGA anyway since GPU requirements will grow over a year.

btw is pricing in USA is anything like EU go for HD4870 X2.


http://www.4launch.nl/shop/#p-3-subshop-Componenten-hoo...
August 24, 2008 8:14:42 PM

Quote:
take a guess how many times this has been answered already.


You took the time to type out a response... Why not make it a meaningfull one?

Just answer the question or don't. No one benefits from this type of post at all.
August 24, 2008 9:01:40 PM

given the massive success of the ati cards , this might influence companys to now use DX10.1 , popularity on its own can bring a piece of software to the forefront , dont be suprised if we see more use of DX10.1 in the next few months.
August 24, 2008 9:49:36 PM

Quote:
the forums would benefit from people having a minimum level of intelligence.

I'm sorry, but that is unnecessary (if you're referring to my intelligence). Yes, I should have searched before I posted. From past experience (not necessarily on this forum), I've found that searching usually doesn't answer my question, though in this case it apparently would have. Personally, I don't mind too much when people ask questions that have been answered before. You care - fine, and I realize that your post wasn't directed towards me specifically. But that doesn't call for such a gross overstatement in saying I have less than minimum intelligence.
August 24, 2008 10:00:13 PM

Quote:

clearly your past experience has been on forums where everyone has had pretty much the same level of intelligence as yourself, which is why searching won't find you your answer.

I believe it has more to do with the fact that it's a C++ forum, and a good portion of my posts (or at least posts in topics I start) involve specific code samples.
August 24, 2008 10:04:07 PM

no forget about DX10.1 is never going to get popular like Nvidia PhysX on GPU(well at least now anyway).
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 10:07:04 PM

Quote:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

a classic that should be watched by all.

clearly your past experience has been on forums where everyone has had pretty much the same level of intelligence as yourself, which is why searching won't find you your answer.

oh and btw, yes i am a git but hey, what can you do, oh wait, think before posting that's what.



the question he had is an opinion. theres no right or wrong answer to the question.
should he care about dx10.1? some ppl say yes some say no. (ex zoldud doesnt think its not important and u can skip it, while liquid thinks it has extra benefits) so he just wanted to no wat we thought. if u have nothing to say dont write in this thread. its as simple as that.
August 24, 2008 11:27:59 PM

If I do go with an ATI HD 4870 X2 (which I probably will), who should I buy it from? Sapphire seemed to be a good company, but I thought the picture of the girl on the card looked a bit tacky. Not a major concern, but I'm getting a case with a side window, so I was going to get it from HIS. If there's any reason to get it from Sapphire over HIS, however, I'll bear the card's look. Or, is there another company I should get it from besides Sapphire and HIS?

EDIT: One more question. (sorry if it's off topic). I was originally planning on getting the GTX 280, and a friend of mine said it would be too large for the Antec 900 (at least to fit comfortably). He told me to get the 1200 instead. The GTX 280's dimensions are 4.37"(H) x 10.5"(L) x "Dual Slot" (W). According to amazon (couldnt find it on ATI site), the dimensions of the HD4870 X2 are 4 x 1.5 x 7 inches (guessing its HxWxL). Would this fit in the Antec 900? Or would I still need the 1200?
a b U Graphics card
August 24, 2008 11:54:58 PM

CoolGamer48 said:
If I do go with an ATI HD 4870 X2 (which I probably will), who should I buy it from? Sapphire seemed to be a good company, but I thought the picture of the girl on the card looked a bit tacky. Not a major concern, but I'm getting a case with a side window, so I was going to get it from HIS. If there's any reason to get it from Sapphire over HIS, however, I'll bear the card's look. Or, is there another company I should get it from besides Sapphire and HIS?


u should check out visiontek they have lifetime warranty i believe.
August 25, 2008 12:42:13 AM

Quote:
no, rewarding lazy people is not the correct way, they should be informed of how to act properly on a forum.


Glad to see The Forum police are still around:p 

Anyway i wouldnt be bothered too much by Dx 10.1 since even Dx10 support itself is only getting started and still an option. As far as i can remember Halo 2 is the only Dx10 title even though its really Dx9.
August 25, 2008 1:34:57 AM

invisik said:
u should check out visiontek they have lifetime warranty i believe.

Ya, I think they do. Has anyone bought from them? Do they honor their warranty, and are there any issues with their quality?
August 25, 2008 1:39:17 AM

I'd stay away from powercolor, all of the cards I had from them would start Artifcating at first, then just power down and run only in DOS:)  when i would get in Windows it would just go pink red and then black.

Visiontek is a very respectable company:D 
August 25, 2008 1:44:27 AM

i think sapphire will be the best out of all the AIB.
August 25, 2008 1:45:22 AM

Another great company^
August 25, 2008 1:47:55 AM

^another great man im talking to.

so what rig uses your 4870X2 now?

i gonna sleep now!99
August 25, 2008 1:53:34 AM

L1qu1d said:
Another great company^

Is there a difference in quality? Like is one better, or are they both good? Warranties are good with VisionTek, but it has no reviews on NewEgg so it makes me a bit uneasy. Also, apparently Sapphire is ATI's #1 distributor? Makes me want to go with them despite the weird label.

If sapphire's better even by a little, I'd probably forget about the label.
a b U Graphics card
August 25, 2008 2:00:29 AM

there all the same since they all follow the reference design. depending on the company u get different warranty. for ex i had bfg all i can say there customer service isnt good at all long hold time and dumb tech there step up program is garbage compared to evga. while evga staff helped me alot and efficiently. there tech staff seems smarter. so it depends i cant really vouche for visiontek i never owned them but i heard from ppl the offer great service.
August 25, 2008 2:04:19 AM

i think its more of a personal experience and preference on the company. since nowadays e-tailer does all the exchanges under warranty it makes the graphics card company less important on the customers.
a b U Graphics card
August 25, 2008 2:41:12 AM

invisik said:
there all the same since they all follow the reference design. depending on the company u get different warranty. for ex i had bfg all i can say there customer service isnt good at all long hold time and dumb tech there step up program is garbage compared to evga. while evga staff helped me alot and efficiently. there tech staff seems smarter. so it depends i cant really vouche for visiontek i never owned them but i heard from ppl the offer great service.


Well, for what i know and always looked, they might follow a ref. design board, but can vary a lot in components (cheaper cooling solutions, cheaper memory modules, plastic instead of steel, etc...). Or you only mean in this case, with the 4800 series and the vendors?

Esop!
August 25, 2008 2:41:34 AM

Exactly! took the words right from my mouth.

To answer your question your question, the 4870 X2 is in my secondary till I'm ready for Crossfire:) 

@Coolgamer48, the quality should be the same between Visiontek and Sapphire, although Sapphire tends to be ont he cheaper side usually.

I'd prob wouldn't worry going with either company, I mean the GPU comes from ATI, and both offer very good warranties, so follow the price:) 
August 25, 2008 3:50:22 AM

Yeah, I am sorry, but insulting peopel is unnecessary. I agree that it would probably help if people looked firsty but no need to start insulting people. Takwe a breath man. Its only a forum.
August 25, 2008 3:58:26 AM

personally the BFG ppl with me have always been great, but then again I never had anything break from bfg. And I really stress out my cards alot:) 

Anarchy4sale who you talkin about? I see no insults, or did I miss it? And remember ppl get mad on forums because useless/Unrelated information tends to come out of the mouths of some people (No fingers pointed, just a general idea)
August 25, 2008 4:19:07 AM

I think he was talking about how strangerstranger implied I did not have a minimum level of intelligence for not searching the forum before posting.
August 25, 2008 4:20:22 AM

lol, don't worry he's just direct person, deep down he means, plz look around and you will find:D 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
August 25, 2008 5:22:54 PM

iluvgillgill said:
no forget about DX10.1 is never going to get popular like Nvidia PhysX on GPU(well at least now anyway).


PhysX? [:mousemonkey:1]
Yeah, shiny Demo levels, OOooh so useful. DX10.1 will definitely get more popular than PhysX, but when that is is another question.
PhysX is far from popular now, unless you consider 3Dmark and it's ilk 'games'.

PhysX, just like DX10.1 is a 'wait and see option' which isn't intergrated into any major title yet as the core physics. That will change eventually, but for now, neither is a 'killer app' by any means.

August 25, 2008 5:33:47 PM

I was wondering what you guys think of this. Maybe it would change mind about DX10.1

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,...

"SUNNYVALE, Calif. -- August 25, 2008 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that leading game developers are working with AMD to create a new generation of game titles utilizing Microsoft DirectX® 10.1 to deliver improved features and performance, and an overall better game experience. Developers including Electronic Arts Phenomic Studio and its forthcoming fantasy online real-time strategy game Battleforge™, SEGA and its futuristic military real-time strategy game Stormrise, and NHN Games and its 3D role-playing game Cloud 9, all exploit DirectX 10.1 for advanced gaming performance and visual realism. Only AMD graphics offer top-to-bottom DirectX 10.1 support: the ATI Radeon™ HD 3000 series and the new ATI Radeon™ HD 4800 series."
a b U Graphics card
August 25, 2008 5:38:31 PM

moe2freaky said:
Hi all. I was wondering what you guys think of this. Maybe it would change minds about DX10.1

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,...


That depends on how much time takes to teach developers and make a full DX10.1 title. If we say 1 year, then DX11 it's gonna hit the corner.

If they can give a good title that shows off DX10.1 (wich might be a teaser for DX11) at it's full before Q1 2009, then i'll be impressed.

Esop!
August 25, 2008 5:47:56 PM

Given that it's posted on AMD's site, I'd say it would have considerable bias... Not that that makes it useless.

Honestly, I don't really care too much about having DirectX 10.1 from what I've been hearing, but I do want to try to get the longest lifespan possible for my video card, and if it is true that only cards that support DirectX 10.1 will work with DX11 (can someone give a source for that?), then I definitely want to try and get 10.1. I mean, I care about performance, but more than that I care about the ability to play games period. I don't think I ever purchased a game because it had great graphics. I purchase them because they're entertaining. But some games (like Oblivion), are extremely entertaining to me, yet are also graphically demanding (at least at the time it came out I think it was...), so I want to make sure I can get the best graphics card I can to run those games at a good framerate.

So even if the GTX 280 is slightly better (not saying it is or isn't), I'd still go with ATI if it is indeed true that the 10.1/11 backward compatibility point is true.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
August 25, 2008 6:08:48 PM

Yuka said:
That depends on how much time takes to teach developers and make a full DX10.1 title. If we say 1 year, then DX11 it's gonna hit the corner.


Could youexplain that last part? I agree about it perhaps taking a while, but who cares if DX11 arrives at the same time? If DX11 arrived tomorrow, that wouldn't change what games can use the DX10.1 components, and when a game was coded for DX11, that would open up the DX10.1 subset. And the idea that the day DX11 launches that it would suddenyl have games that would hit the ground running anymore than previous generations is beyond optimistic.

Although from the titles listed, meh, they're 'B' titles at best, interesting, but unlikely to even have the interest that Assasin's Creed had.
RTSs jst don't have the same ability to showcase features as much as an FPS. It's not a judegement call on playability or enjoyability, but really, the differences would be relatively 2D in nature.
The benefits would be more along the lines of materials management, and writing straight to/from the buffers, perhaps cube map arrays if there were enough interiors. But I wouldn't be surprised if the games are still largely CPU bound, so the differences between DX10 and DX10.1 will likely be minor and subtle.
a b U Graphics card
August 25, 2008 7:55:22 PM

Yuka said:
Well, for what i know and always looked, they might follow a ref. design board, but can vary a lot in components (cheaper cooling solutions, cheaper memory modules, plastic instead of steel, etc...). Or you only mean in this case, with the 4800 series and the vendors?

Esop!



well they all follow the same design and use very much similar parts so clock for clock there all the same but i guess in oc situation one might oc like 2-5mhz more.
but the stock fan is usually always the same.
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