Trashing the 5 yr old hp for a home build

[weenrock]

So heres the scoop.

I have a old ass amd anthlon 3200 64 bit that is coming to an obcelete era.

I have always been a fan for the amd's in the past but with recent benchmarks on intel, its got me pulling they're way. I see that they are a tad more spending and I would like to keep a budget under about a grand.

I'm not looking for super fancy looks and I just need the desktop.

So first thing to keep in mind to do a budget build, dual vs quad. I have seen benchmarks on the amd x4's lagging behind intels dual core.

In reality, I am looking for something to do some decent gaming and something that will last 4-5 yrs. Part of me wants me to go amd for the cost difference but also looking for something that will last. Also wanting to do the SLI dual graphics cards.

I have looked around on some recent posts, but some are not up to date with recent products. Please help my suffering in trying to the best bang for the buck, I have been searching the web and cyberpowerpc.com at set ups and products.

I know I will get a lot of mixed opinions because this is a touchy touchy topic. But the real question is, is going with a cheaper amd really that bad, if so what would be appropriate for my application. (I heard phenom is a drag, and ddr3 is not as stable?)

 

[4Ryan6]

Money vs braggin rights = AMD over your OCing skills

Because if you want the Intel claims you are reading about, you're going to have to either overclock to get it, or spend a serious chunk of change for out of the box performance.

So how are your OCing skills?

AMD is presently hitting the market with some serious hardware, like its Black Edition line with unlocked multipliers, a simple OC solution to just raise the multiplier and keep the CPU cool and you have more speed right out of the box, vs days of tweaking and benching to get a stable OC.

OCing by raising the multiplier everything stays in spec, you don't have to tweak a thing and its rock solid!

AMDs new 750 southbridge is bringing new possibilities to the table, so before you take the Intel route make sure you've thoroughly looked all aspects over.

Just assembled a machine for a friend of mine the tower cost $378.77 consisted of an AMD AM2 500+ Black Edition Dual Core clocked stock @ 2.6G[Its Retail but does not come with a CPU cooler], Biostar A740G M2+ M/B, 2G OCZ memory, Seagate SATA 3 160G HDD, Ultra Defender ATX Mid Tower Case w 400W Ultra P/S, Philips 20X DVD Burner, and a Floppy Drive.

I'm presently running a Skt939 FX60 OCd to 3G and this build is like an FX60 on steroids, I almost kept the freakin thing myself, but I can always build my own!

 

[eric54]

Are you fu$#%ng insane 4ryan6? How the hell did you come across that blatantly false bit of info? Intel is what give you the serious out-of-box performance you are referring to. Overclocking an Intel proc is just as easy as changing the multiplier. No, overclocking AMD is NOT necessarily as simple as changing the multiplier. It comes down to the same principles as with Intel proc's. Adjusting voltages can be necessary for both types, for AMD one method in some cases can be changing the multi but it isnt like you can pick x20 and expect it to be stable, for intel you adjust the FSB, you literally use the same button on your keyboard to change it as you would for AMD. There is no truth in what you say, I'm so agitated by the total BS spewing from your mouth that i'm actually making this post just to make sure the OP DOESNT take your ignorant, misleading, and entirely fanboy'd opinion.

OP, 4ryan6 is an idiot and shouldnt be allowed to post ever again. Go with intel, get an amd 4850 gfx card, get a good PSU, you can even check out the build i recommended in another thread since it is both cheap and will kick the living crap out of any AMD configuration you can put together. BTW an 8400 proc is 169 on newegg or less. I'll throw the link up once I get a hold of it.

Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1 Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E7200

Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 2.53GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
Item #:N82E16819115052
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

$119.99
1 Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Item #:N82E16822136218
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

$84.99
1 SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F

SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F
Item #:N82E16827151171
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

$26.99
1 Antec Sonata Plus 550 Black/ Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 550W Power Supply

Antec Sonata Plus 550 Black/ Silver Computer Case
Item #:N82E16811129037
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

-$70.00 Instant
$179.99
$109.99
1 SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4850 100242L Video Card
Item #:N82E16814102747
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

-$10.00 Instant
$179.99
$169.99
1 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD
Item #:N82E16832116488
Return Policy: Software Return Policy
Add item to Cart Add this item to your cart

$109.99
1 OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2N10662GKBIOSTAR TForce TP43D2A7 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard

* OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
Item #: N82E16820227178
Return Policy: Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy
Add combo to Cart Add this combo to your cart

* BIOSTAR TForce TP43D2A7 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813138122
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

-$40.00 Combo
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate
$159.98
$119.98
Grand Total: $741.92

I found a solid 24" lcd to go with that, its a benq for 339.95. Gotta go to bed now.

 

[eric54]

"w 400W Ultra P/S"

Oh ffs man. I get you have a love affair with amd and all, but the current leader in performance/$ is Intel, get over it, welcome to 2007/2008! Heres the PSU list in tiered form so its easy to differentiate crap from quality.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

To the OP, just ignore this AMD troll. He is right about AMD being good 2-3 years ago, but right now AMD just isnt up to snuff. (although their graphics cards are awesome, you'll do nicely with a 4850). Don't go SLI, its a waste, just get a better single card. Never go two crappy cards, just expect crap+25% less crap. Go Intel, dont go ddr3.


What is your budget? the build I offered is pretty much as good as it gets as for performance per dollar. You can get even more performance if you choose to overclock, it is easy and there is LOTS of help out there. The overhead in Intel proc's especially the e8400 gives you lots of room to get more performance as your computing needs change in time. AMD will not be able to offer the same performance the e8400 offers even if you oc it to its max, it really isnt cost effective to go AMD at this point. They just dont have a competing product in the processor market right now.

 

[4Ryan6]

@eric54

Your remarks toward my post are completely uncalled for and rude, the OP may not even have intentions of overclocking at all, just adding your comments and not trying to downgrade what I said would be a better approach.

Its not like I got into computing yesterday dude!

And FYI no one holds the crown forever, history shows that, AMD will have its day again, and I will be so laughing my a$$ off at you!

 

[eric54]

It annoyed me to see you take such a slanted approach in you post. Though its not implemented in my post(s) I did assume you were trying to help, but in order to ensure the OP wasn't misled I acted as strongly as possible so that he isn't given false, and blatantly misleading advice. I'm sure you feel the same way towards some best buy sales reps shooting off total BS to customers. That's where I stand on the matter, maybe I wasn't polite but sometimes people say stuff that sets me off, you just managed to do that.

"And FYI no one holds the crown forever, history shows that, AMD will have its day again, and I will be so laughing my a$$ off at you!"

Indeed, but history also dictates that companies losing billions per quarter tend to go out of business. Just so you know, my last rig had an AMD 3500+ in it, wanna know why? Because it performed better than Intel's offering at that time, so nobody will be laughing if i buy AMD again. However you can be sure that it wont be for quite some time.

 

[4Ryan6]

@eric54

You're accusing me of lying and giving false information, of which I have not done, AMD OCIng by raising the multiplier is just that simple, only if you plan on taking it to extreme levels do you have to raise the Vcore, normally you can raise the multiplier up one level on the stock voltage and thats a 200mhz increase right there, rock solid.

So what exactly have I lied about? What is necessary to successfully OC and Intel CPU and get it stable, by tweaking your settings and testing for stability to attain a solid OC?

So what the Hell am I lying about and passing out false information about?

You remind me of some child throwing a temper tantrum!

Grow the Hell up dude!

 

[zenmaster]

OP,

What is your Budget?
Also, Consider spending less on your Computer and Upgrading More often.
The best system now will be dated in a couple of years regardless of what you buy now.

It will be fine for "Office" work, but when you toss gaming into the mix it will not.

I find that Buy a good build for your money now and then upgrading or selling/building fresh in 2-3 years is a good way to run.

 

[eric54]

@eric54

You're accusing me of lying and giving false information, of which I have not done, AMD OCIng by raising the multiplier is just that simple, only if you plan on taking it to extreme levels do you have to raise the Vcore, normally you can raise the multiplier up one level on the stock voltage and thats a 200mhz increase right there, rock solid.

So what exactly have I lied about? What is necessary to successfully OC and Intel CPU and get it stable, by tweaking your settings and testing for stability to attain a solid OC?

So what the Hell am I lying about and passing out false information about?

You remind me of some child throwing a temper tantrum!

Grow the Hell up dude!

It is very simple. You told the OP that AMD was the best way to go, used a reference to a build that features a processor that is beating by virtually all "e" series Core 2 Duo's from Intel, and then promoted Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) regarding overclocking Intel processors.

Overclocking Intel Cpu's involves adjusting the Front Side Bus (FSB). Changing it is as simple as entering in a new number, or pushing "page up" or "page down". Just as with AMD it can be necessary to adjust the Vcore. The difference is that Intel CPU's overclock 15-25% on a regular basis, its actually expected at this point. With most AMD cpu's you're lucky to get the 200mhz you mentioned. Using stability programs that stress CPU's should be used regardless of CPU so that aspect is the same. Both cases can require loads of tweaking, as it stands, Intel offers more reward from the OC by providing unprecidented performance, whereas OCing an AMD CPU will get you on par with an Intel offering.

The rest speaks for itself, here is a good link for getting an idea of performance of different CPU's.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2007/clone-dvd-2-908,374.html

Here is a site that shows different pricing for different CPU's.
http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=34&name=CPUs-Processors

Combine the two and you get Price/Performance, you do the math.

Now that that is over with. How about we end this bickering and let the OP have his thread back. My apologies for being rude, it was crass and uncalled for.

 

[zenmaster]

Guys, Lets get back on Target Helping the OP.
We can have this debate in any one of the numerous FanBoy Threads.

Let's Get the Ops Budget, and Work on Suggesting a Build.

In Regards to your build Eric, That is a good start.
The DDR2-1066 RAM is likely overkill for the E7200 since it does not need RAM that fast to hit very high OCs.

However, if the OP wanted to consider a 1333FSB Quad Core such as the Q9300 which has dropped below $200 in some sales then it would work great.

http://shop3.frys.com/product/5513390?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

However, to properly OC the Quad, a more expensive Mobo would likely be required.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Seems to me the OP wanted an AMD, has one now, but finds Intels products superior. Thats true when ocing, and barely true at stock clocks. At stock, Intel doesnt kill AMD, edges it out yes, but no destrution. In the frame the OP put it, needing to know about AMDs current solutions isnt a bad idea since hes mentioned his like for them. At stock, you wouldnt be able to actually tell the difference between a Intel or AMD chip. Im talking about AMDs newest Phenom. To the OP, if youre planning on ocing, then yes, get Intel. If not, dont dismiss AMD, as you may find some decent deals/pricing and youll lose very little performance with Phenom

 

[rodney_ws]

4ryan6 gave misleading and highly biased information to the OP who had a genuine question. Eric54 called him out on it.

Here's the quote from 4ryan6 that proves Eric right...

"And FYI no one holds the crown forever, history shows that, AMD will have its day again, and I will be so laughing my a$$ off at you!"

That right there... "AMD will have its day again" ... that's future tense (and pure speculation at best) However, the OP is looking to buy a new rig in the present. Nehalem, Bulldozer, whatever... the future will settle out the winners from the losers... but for right now? Intel holds the crown. Why else are they the only ones selling $1000 CPUs? Because they can. Anyone being steered towards an AMD processor in 2008 is being led astray. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

 

[50bmg]

Generic Info: see newegg for more info.

CPU = E2180($70) or Intel C2D E7200($129) or E8400($170) - all overclockable

Mobo = X38($200) for crossfire or P45 ($140) for Single card

RAM = 4G DDR2 800Mhz ($100) , OCZ, Patriot, crucial,

vid = ATI 4850, ( i dont like sapphire) ($200)

HD = seagate 7200.11 500G ($85)

PSU = 650w coolermaster ($100) for cross fire go with 750w($125). Shop & can find a good name for good prices. Get a known brand tier 1 or tier 2 psu. Anyone have the link to tomswiki on psus?

OS = Vista 64 home prem ($110)

mid tower Case, opt-drives, fans, etc. (~$250)

Some of those prices are rounded up a little. With some give and take you should be able to build a nice, single card, system for well under $1000. If you have DVDs or CDs, you can use those. But get a nice airy case and good Heat sink and fans.

 

[lerner]

Why everybody asks for the OP's budget? It's clearly stated in the first post...

 

[zenmaster]

Why everybody asks for the OP's budget? It's clearly stated in the first post...

We are dumb and can't read words. Only numbers :>

Grand=$1000.
I missed that the 1st time :>

 

[zenmaster]

Case - $60 Shipped - Good Cooling for the Price
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042

PSU - $60 Shipped - 80% Certified - Seasonic OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

Mobo - $104 Shipped - Good Gigabyte Board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128347

CPU - $190 Shipped - C2Q 2.5Ghz Quad Core
http://shop3.frys.com/product/5513390?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

CPU Cooler - $27 Shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134

GPU - $255 AR Shipped - HD 5870
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131113

HDD - $85 Shipped - 640GB and good Performance.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

RAM - $65 AR Shipped - Fast Ram for Good Price after Rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267

Vista Home Premium - $110 Shipped - The MS Tax :>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

MS Keyboard/Mouse - $25 Shipped - They Come in Handy :>
---------------------------------------------
$981 Shipped After Rebates.


Note: Edited to add CPU Cooler.

 

[Shadow703793]

^ +1. I do hope you mean the 4870 as there is NO 5870 yet :lol: OP could also get a 4850 and save some $.

 

[arthurh]

weenrock the OP wrote;

"I know I will get a lot of mixed opinions because this is a touchy touchy topic. But the real question is, is going with a cheaper amd really that bad, if so what would be appropriate for my application. (I heard phenom is a drag, and ddr3 is not as stable?)"

jaydeejohn wrote;

"Seems to me the OP wanted an AMD, has one now, but finds Intels products superior. Thats true when ocing, and barely true at stock clocks. At stock, Intel doesnt kill AMD, edges it out yes, but no destrution. In the frame the OP put it, needing to know about AMDs current solutions isnt a bad idea since hes mentioned his like for them. At stock, you wouldnt be able to actually tell the difference between a Intel or AMD chip. Im talking about AMDs newest Phenom. To the OP, if youre planning on ocing, then yes, get Intel. If not, dont dismiss AMD, as you may find some decent deals/pricing and youll lose very little performance with Phenom"

Nobody seems to dispute this. I don't.

4ryan6 wrote;

"Just assembled a machine for a friend of mine the tower cost $378.77 consisted of an AMD AM2 500+ Black Edition Dual Core clocked stock @ 2.6G[Its Retail but does not come with a CPU cooler], Biostar A740G M2+ M/B, 2G OCZ memory, Seagate SATA 3 160G HDD, Ultra Defender ATX Mid Tower Case w 400W Ultra P/S, Philips 20X DVD Burner, and a Floppy Drive.

I'm presently running a Skt939 FX60 OCd to 3G and this build is like an FX60 on steroids, I almost kept the freakin thing myself, but I can always build my own!"

Notice that build hes talking about has onbd video? Looks like a PC with economy in mind but has really good function aimed at non-gaming needs. Then compares it with his PC which is OCed to 3GH using a FX60. Sounds like a gamer to me. His PC must still be doing what he wants it to do. 939 is yesterday news and yet heres an example of todays PC with yesterdays PC being apparently out done by a lesser PC? Both have AMD CPUs! One is running at 2.6GH with 2 X 512 L2 cache and the other is OC'd to 3GH with 2 X 1000MH.

That economy PC is stock as can be, but man if hes running 3GH on an ole FX60...........(stock was 2.6GH), then I'd think he gave one hell of a comparision for the OP.

Is he a AMD fanboy? Yup. So am I. The meat and potatoes of his post to me was that comparision. You know how fond we are of our own little creations and he showed where his PC was underperforming compared to that new build.

The OP knew that this could really turn into a fanboy test of wills but actually wanted just the kind of info that jaydeejohn and 4ryan6 provided. AS WELL AS what eric54, 50bmg and zenmaster spec'd out for him. He also got but didn't need how to trash someone. He probably knows how to do that without our help.

Have a good day.

 

[weenrock]

Wow, I posted this nearly 14.5 hrs ago. The thread itself is destroyed. I don't even know if I would consider this valid because of the biased.

Yes, I plan on overclocking with a aftermarket cpu cooler. Heres the kicker: I have never overclocked once.

So I plan on doing some gaming and music. Not much with video editing or CS3.

I would like to get it around 700 to 800 and DEFinetly looking for the biggest bang for the buck. I'm sure I can figure out the ocing.

But I still have a question to be answered: What cpu would be best with my application? Just looking for amd or intel to oc for biggest bang 4 buck. But would it be dual or quad? I saw some quad benchmarks that dont help as much with gaming. Dual is better with gaming?

So.

Shoot!

 

[zenmaster]

Ween,

Intel will almost always give the best bang for the buck by far.
If you are looking for the Best Bang for the Buck CPUs,

Consider the E7200 for about $120 or the E2180 for about $75
The HD4850 is a bit cheaper than the 4870 I listed above and will have you about $100

That right there will drop the build from just under $1000 to just under $800.

Consider dropping to the Gigabyte EP35-DS3L to save another $20.
I would leave the rest the same.

In regards to Dual vs Quad, Right now a Dual is just fine but more and more items will fully utilize the Quad cores in the future. So the Quad will be more future protected.

With an $800 Budget, I would do a Dual.
With a $1000 Budget, I would go Quad.

 

[weenrock]

Also, I was lookin at the core2 duo 8500. Can i oc that? and is that a decent bang for buck or should I go lower?

 

[weenrock]

ok I think i have decided on getting a core 2 dual e8000 series, I dont know what one yet, but I am looking for a motherboard that might be able to be upgradable in the future. Also, is ddr 3 worth it?

 

[arthurh]

What games do you specifically plan on playing. Some are CPU intensive but most are graphics intensive.(newer games)

I play FSX (multi-cpu intensive but still needs a good graphics card) mostly and have a AMD X2 5000+. Non BE edition OC'd to 3.2GH using water cooling. My video card is a 7800 GTX for now. I know a Intel quad would do better with this game 'cause it will OC much higher than what I have but don't wish to change platforms at this time. I play this game at 1280 X 1024 on a 20" CRT monitor. That also will play a role in what resolution you play with.

My M/BD is a Asrock 939 Dualsata with a daughter card that allows me to use a AM2 CPU and DDR2 ram. Its a hybrid from late '06. Its only fault as far as I'm concerned is not being able to raise my Vc higher than 1.4V, thus limiting my possible OC. I don't want to volt mode my M/BD so I play with what I have. So for me this is satisfactory.

I tell you this so you can better help those who are trying to help you. You may only need a low end CPU with a low to mid range video card or something much better depending on the game you play most.

 

[weenrock]

well some rally games like colin mcrae 2005 command of heroes opposing fronts, maybe some future ones.

Also since SLI or crossfire is the way to go... I want to get 2 video cards to increase its mileage.

Your going to have to take it easy with the jargon, I dont know a lot of the stuff yet. I used to be one with computers but college came along.

what is fsx?

what motherboard should I get if I want to expand and upgrade?

is the e8500 able to be oced? if so what cooler should I get?

ddr3?

 

[weenrock]

Looking for the mobo to be easy ocing.

next step: sli vs crossfire. Worth the extra v card?