Ummm, lessee, doesnt Phenom hit 3Ghz? Is it better than K8? Better clock for clock? Yes, yes and yes. You can argue all you want, Im speaking now, and Im speaking facts. It has nothing to do with how fast either i7 or Phenom will finally be, but clock for clock. The walls been hit as far as how faster, Im talking IPC. Yes, Phenom was better by alot in IPC, and i7 doesnt do much there, as far as gaming goes, so yes, Phenom did more coming out than i7 did, as far as gaming. Some people just cant stand anything positive about AMD, or even worse, that AMD has done better regarding their own cpus than Intel has, again, as far as gaming. I know, people will say anything, to me its crazy. i7 just doesnt do it for gaming, wasnt a upgrade for gaming, isnt an upgrade for gaming, tho, for AMD users Phenom is. And Deneb even looks better, again for AMD users, than i7 does as far as overall increases goes, again, as far as gaming. Why this is controversial or shocking or anything else is crazy, because its true. Show me, clock for clock how much better i9 is for gaming than Penryn? Ill show you better results with Phenom clock for clock over K8.