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AMD CPU won't stop overheating!

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October 19, 2008 11:20:34 PM

I had just assembled my first PC from the ground up 2 days ago from parts ordered from newegg. The only thing I am having issues with is my AMD 6400+ X2 idling at 46c in BIOS, then SLOWLY lowering to 26c-35c when the computer is fully booted up. I am using an ASUS M2N-E AM2 Nvidia nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard with this Rosewill RCX-Z23 to cool it.

I have recently found out that the fact this thing hits 65c EASY when I just open World of Warcraft, for example, is bad. It idles ok under no load but takes a while to lower to it. My case is a Antec Nine Hundred, very good cooling. I reversed the top 200 MM fan so it blows OUT and my CPU fan is blowing straight up at it, so the hot air exits the case completely. I made sure to use SATA2 cables and managed to minimize clutter inside the case, yet this thing wont stay cool! I double checked to make sure that the heatsink was installed correctly. CPU came brand new so no substances on it, I used a very thin layer of the thermal grease that came with the Rosewill cooler and made sure it fit snug with the screws tightened to max. I can't figure out why it won't stay at a normal temperature, please help =(

So far, no choppiness or weird performance, though. Had 2 blue screens recently where it said "dumping to harddrive" then rebooted. I'm assuming that was because my CPU was getting too hot. Right now, as I type, PC Probe II says it is at 26c with a mobo temp of 25c (always that low) and a 3000 RPM speed for my CPU fan. All case fans are on maux (or however it's spelled) cables so they just run at full power I'm assuming (have the switches set to "High"). Using Vista 32-bit.

From EVEREST:

Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type ITE IT8716F + Analog Devices ADT7475 (ISA 290h, SMB 2Eh)
GPU Sensor Type Diode (NV-Diode)
Motherboard Name Asus M2N-E / M2N-SLI Series
Chassis Intrusion Detected No

Temperatures:
Motherboard 27 °C (81 °F)
CPU 63 °C (145 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 56 °C (133 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 51 °C (124 °F)
GPU Diode 56 °C (133 °F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 2948 RPM

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.40 V
+3.3 V 3.20 V
+5 V 5.19 V
+12 V 12.56 V
+5 V Standby 4.70 V
VBAT Battery 2.93 V
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 20, 2008 2:06:05 AM

doh... nvm
October 20, 2008 2:17:15 AM

wow 60C. that high for my 6000+. mine only hits around42C under full load with a HD4850 right next to it.
Related resources
October 20, 2008 2:34:29 AM

Quote:
uh 60 c is completely normal...

its actually pretty good...

you have a corrupt file system or some other source of error for the BSODS... but it isn't over heating


65c is the highest rated temp the CPU should run at under full load. 65c IS very hot, it shouldn't pass 45c full load, not with my cooling.
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October 20, 2008 2:47:49 AM

First of all reversing those fans doesn't seem like a good idea since your using warmer air from the case to cool the CPU heatsink instead of blowing in cooler air. Second, make sure that your thermal past is applied evenly. That 5 degree difference in the core temps leads me to believe that your CPU is being unevenly cooled.
October 20, 2008 3:05:32 AM

may i ask what type of CPU heatsink you have? it could just simply be that your heatsink cant handle the thermal power of a 6400+

send link to it if possible please:) 
October 20, 2008 3:11:10 AM

I'm not sure from how you worded your sentence, but don't CPU cooler's blow air TO the cpu (as in, fan pulls air from center of case, blows it into/onto heatsink). Kind of sounds like your fan is blowing the wrong way....or maybe I'm thinking wrong, I dunno.
October 20, 2008 3:12:08 AM

what he did is good,reversing the fans. you don't want heat to accumulate inside a case which raises all temperature components up.
anyways, there could be a problem in mounting the heatsink. have you tried installing it again?
also touch the heatsink whether if it is too cool or too hot under load.
October 20, 2008 3:37:25 AM

he hasnt told us the specifications of his heatsinks yet so we dont know wether it was just a bad use of thermal paste or just a weak CPU heatsink, so we should all wait till hes on again before making any assumptions
October 20, 2008 3:59:11 AM

rambo117 said:
he hasnt told us the specifications of his heatsinks yet so we dont know wether it was just a bad use of thermal paste or just a weak CPU heatsink, so we should all wait till hes on again before making any assumptions

He listed his hsf as a rosewill RCX-Z23.
Since it does not show up on a goggle, I'm guessing that it doesn't exist.
Using a nonexistant hsf does cause problems.
October 20, 2008 4:00:19 AM

He said he uses a "Rosewill RCX-Z23" cooler, it's in his first paragraph.
Not sure how good that heatsink is though, I can't find that exact model number anywhere, maybe he meant RCX-Z3?

*Edit*
Hehe, beat me to it endyen.
October 20, 2008 4:17:35 AM

One : CPU will get hot very quick at bootup, nothing unusual there.
Two : Will take a bit to lower temp (see laws of themodynamics).
Three: Idling at tose temps ain't bad at all
Four: 60's is hardly overheating. Hotter than some peoples yes, roundabout the temps of a lot of peoples with that CPU most likely.
It's well within it's operating envelope
October 20, 2008 4:34:16 AM

Your HSF is probably a poor model.

60c is too high. 55c is about as high as you want a constant temp. Not just for the CPU, but all the other nearby components as well, radiative heat impacts them.

Seek out a more powerful HSF, and remember that all heat pipes are not the same. Some are defective and some are under filled and some filled with poor quality materials.
October 20, 2008 4:38:00 AM

Thank you belinda for mentioning the whole concept of "operating envelope". I was shying away from this post because I saw people saying stuff like "60C is too hot, mine's 50C". When troubleshooting you don't look at person A's computer to person B's computer. You look at what should and shouldn't work. 60C should work. Anyone else mentioning that their CPU is so much cooler is not adding value to the thread.

Now, with that out of the way, I will add value to the thread:

All of the info you have provided does not give us any assistance in identified a problem with your machine. Aside from your comment that you have BSODs and some people looked up your heatsink and couldn't find it (I did not look myself) the computer appears to be operating perfectly. Have you tried reinstalling windows again? Maybe test your RAM or hard drive for problems?



October 20, 2008 4:41:40 AM

bf2gameplaya said:
Your HSF is probably a poor model.

60c is too high. 55c is about as high as you want a constant temp. Not just for the CPU, but all the other nearby components as well, radiative heat impacts them.

Seek out a more powerful HSF, and remember that all heat pipes are not the same. Some are defective and some are under filled and some filled with poor quality materials.


Radiated heat? See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation

If your CPU is glowing like that read hot metal, you are so screwed. Besides, it has probably melted MUCH more than your CPU... like your case too.

You mean convection heat?
October 20, 2008 6:48:44 AM

Whew, ok first things first. The reason no one could find my CPU cooler was because I was being a dubber and typed the name in slightly wrong, here is a newegg link. I thought I added nice little URLS to the names of my items in my original post, guess not...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168....

I have touched the fins of the cooler after boot down once to see how hot they were. Cool to the touch. My CPU fan came blowing air FROM the cooler, it is positioned under the big 200mm fan that sucks air OUT of the case (before it blew air into the case, right above a CPU cooler trying to blow air up and out...this cooler is mounted in a such a way on my mobo that it aims directly up). This seemed to help a few degrees.

I do not experience any weird performance, just random bootdowns when playing WoW that say "A Clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor within the
allocated time interval." followed by it dumping to harddrive and booting up again.

It seems a handful of people don't think this is overheating...but I have met many who do. I have a friend who is a builder and sales rep for newegg or something and I told him my new cpu runs at 45c idle he freaked out, his servers (he runs a music recording studio, needs some powerful machines) idle at 25c. I have done some research and it seems 25c or 31c would be good, and 50c is what mine should be under heavy load with proper cooling.

I used stock thermal paste that came with that machine and followed a guide that said to use a q-tip to evenly coat a very small layer across the CPU. I made sure, again, that I mounted it properly. if this ins't enough info for some reason (you guys know my CPU, cooler, Mobo, and case) along with the Everest readout, I guess I can link my entire system. This is a fresh OEM install of Vista not even a few days old, I would hate to think it needs re-install already O.o

Edit: Here is my case. I forgot to link it, this should make it a bit easier to understand. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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October 20, 2008 11:41:58 AM

well based on this review
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=213...
your cooler is quite average aftermarket cooler, under 125W load 26,5C over ambient. That would be around 50C as you said.

Maybe you should get some AS5 or similar high quality paste and reseat it. see if it makes a difference...

And the heatsink fan should blow air through the heatsink and the case fan on the top/back of the case out of the case.
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October 20, 2008 12:19:00 PM

When it comes to CPU temps, I frown apon anything much over 62C or so, and never agree with anything over 68C. That CPU should be running cooler, especially doing something like WoW, which isn't very taxing to begin with.

Try better thermal paste, and see if that helps, re-seat heatsink, etc.
October 20, 2008 1:17:41 PM

Ok, I will try reseating it with better paste. Also, I live in NH in the USA, and it's fall here, my room was very cold earlier and it still ran hot. I'm starting to think it's something between the CPU and the heatsink, since the fins aren't even getting hot. I'm going to add a fan to the side sucking out and another internal fan blowing air across the VGA, so i should have a big circuit of flowing air. Is there anything I might have done wrong though the first seating? I followed the directions to the letter, I can't think of what I would do differently this time. Also, the CPU fan is sucking air OUT of the heatsink, want me to reverse it? Someone mentioned it hsould blow onto the heatsink....although that would only accomplish blwong warm airi nside the case onto the CPU.
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October 20, 2008 1:54:18 PM

suckin' sucks, blowing is better... like in a hot summer day, you don't go standing behind the fan, but infront of it... and see if you can mount it so that the fan blows through the finns upwards towards the exhaust fan.

btw can you remove that plastic shroud around the heatsink or is it permanently bolted/molded to it, I'm not sure if it has any positive effect on the cooling performance. you hardly ever see shrouds on high performance coolers...
October 20, 2008 2:58:15 PM

Kari said:
suckin' sucks, blowing is better... like in a hot summer day, you don't go standing behind the fan, but infront of it... and see if you can mount it so that the fan blows through the finns upwards towards the exhaust fan.

btw can you remove that plastic shroud around the heatsink or is it permanently bolted/molded to it, I'm not sure if it has any positive effect on the cooling performance. you hardly ever see shrouds on high performance coolers...


yes, I can I think. Also I can reverse the unit and then reverse the fan, since the fan can only be mounted one spot but if i reverse fan and cooler it will blow up form udnerneath the heatsink and into the exhaust fan, but theb asic problem seems to be the ifns not even getting hot. it might be my CPU placement >.<
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October 20, 2008 3:17:34 PM

well yeah the fins shouldn't get hot, maybe slightly warm...
You could take a look at the base of the cooler whether it's nice and flat or concave/convex, it might not be contacting the cpu properly. Use a razor blade or similar.. If it's only slightly out of shape, some extra paste might fix it but if it's really bad, you could rma it or sand it smooth, see all those lapping threads here on the forums for more info about that
October 20, 2008 3:21:36 PM

The problem is most likely a combination of your processor cooler and airflow in your case. When I built my new machine I went thru a similiar problem. I choose an Athlon 64 X2 6000+. These processors are power hungry and run hot. I dont think you will get down to 25c without water cooling.

Right now mine Idles in the low 40's and maxes in the mid to high 50's (Stress test for several hours never went above 58). While this may seem high it is normal and within the processors operating range.

I went thru about 3 or 4 processor fans before finally settling on an Asus that seemed to work best. I tried the stock one for awhile and it kept me in a comfortable range but when I added my two ATI 4850's everything in my case started getting hotter. The only thing getting near a dangerous range was the CPU so I started by switching CPU coolers. First I got an ASUS. This dropped my temps back into a good range but thinking I could do better I went and got a thermaltake cooler just to try. I used the thermaltake for about 30 minutes before going back to my asus cooler. Tried another one but forgot what brand. In the end every processor cooler I tried ran about 5c hotter then the Asus I am currently running (idle and under load). Asus isn't exactly known as a great brand for coolers but sometimes I wonder if its the fact that I have an ASUS motherboard as well, maybe there cooler was specifically designed to work better with there boards.

Another important thing is airflow in the case. Make sure your front fans are blowing in and most of your others are blowing out. I have a thermaltake armor mx case, stock fans worked fine but eventually I replaced all my stock fans with antec speed adjustable fans. At low settings the computer was much quieter and stayed within the same temp range as the stock fans but when I set these on high the temp of everything in my case dropped 5c. (About 3c from turning up back fan to high and another 2c from turning up the front fan).

Also keep in mind, what works for one person wont for another. Everyones computer setup is different and it all plays a part in the heat depending on the case and the components in them. While some after market coolers will work great in some cases, in other cases they will not be as effective due to air flow differences within the individual computer case they are in.

I would keep fooling around with combinations of fans etc.. till you find what works for you. Did you ever try the stock cooler that came with your processor? If so give that a try and compare it to your aftermarket one. If the stock is giving you the same temps as the aftermarket then your aftermarket one is basically no better and its time to try a different brand/shape of cooler.
October 20, 2008 5:01:29 PM

I'd listen to AdioKIP if i was you.
His CPU initialy ran temps like yours but he knew that those temps were ok and wouldn't kill the CPU.
I think it's preference and a bit of my processor runs cooler than yours one upmanship going on in this thread. I'm all for if it runs within a safe margin of it operating range it's good enough.
Those temps definatly won't kill your CPU but repeatidly swapping out heatsinks, lapping this and that is more likely is kill it.
October 20, 2008 5:34:11 PM

Belinda said:
I'd listen to AdioKIP if i was you.
His CPU initialy ran temps like yours but he knew that those temps were ok and wouldn't kill the CPU.
I think it's preference and a bit of my processor runs cooler than yours one upmanship going on in this thread. I'm all for if it runs within a safe margin of it operating range it's good enough.
Those temps definatly won't kill your CPU but repeatidly swapping out heatsinks, lapping this and that is more likely is kill it.


Will do. I have an AMD 6400 X2, and no stock cooler cpu came OEM, but it had that combo deal with the cooler which is why I got it. Didn't know of any good brands at that point so I went with it. My case is exactly how he described it, 2 intake in front of HDD cages (only 1 HDD though so they blow freely through) and 1 rear exhaust, 1 top 200m exhaust, and a side panel that's grated, which will be seating another exhaust fan in a bit. So I'm fairly certain that I have good air circulation. You really think the CPU runs hot naturally? That theory would be supported because I do not see performance drops, in fact this system runs everything super fast and my fans on my case always blow out very cool air. I am a bit concerned about it though, just to be safe. I am going to try it on Doom 3 in a bit at max settings (have a geforce 9800 GTX and 4 gigs of RAM in this machine), if it goes to 65c playing WoW I can't imagine how hot it could get...I'm still worried this will damage it.
October 20, 2008 6:28:40 PM

Ok, I looked at your heatsink. The fan SHOULD blow INTO the heatsink. From your post it appears that you thought about it, and switched it to suck away from the heatsink. It should blow onto the heatsink.

Unfortuantely the side mounted heatsinks can throw people for a loop, and you fell for the design trap. You should always always always blow onto the heatsink for CPUs. There are almost no exceptions. It's a thermal performance thing.

Even with the new info you have provided, I'm still not convinced that this is just a heat problem with the CPU. I'm not on the train that says "that's too hot". I'm on the train that says "it may be hotter than other people, but it's still within its operating limit". If it can't operate within this limit(any part of the limit) then it is faulty.

You know how doctors decided what a good blood pressure was? They sampled tons of people, picked the middle of the road and said that's 'normal'. We don't know enough to know what is truely good, we just know what we think is average. The same thought process is being applied improperly here. Just because everyone else's temps are 20C lower doesn't mean yours is wrong.

Now, here's another thought. Your motherboard has a copper pipe that runs from the chipset to between the CPU socket and the back USB/network/etc ports. This motherboard is designed for a heatsink that is installed that blows air in the direction of the motherboard, or "towards the motherboard". This air would also cool this secondary heatsink. Can you confirm that air is in fact being blown through(and don't consider case fans in this thought) this heatsink. There are only 2 fans that can actually blow through that heatsink. One is a CPU fan like I mentioned above, that blows over the CPU/motherboard. The other is an addon fan that ASUS probably provided with the motherboard to cool this seconary heatsink in the event you are using water cooling. If you were using water cooling, you would have no air flow from the CPU, so you would have to provide proper flow. You will also have to check the direction of flow for both fans, because it's bad to use the CPU fan and the secondary fan on the same board at the same time because they try to compete to push air through each, and so both lose cooling.

This is just a possibility. I always try to buy standard CPU fans when possible, and avoid these side loaded heatsinks when possible, except when I am absolutely sure I can get away with it.
October 20, 2008 6:49:38 PM

My guitar instructor/computer guy has exact same components in his 32gig RAM server systems for his Sound Recording business, he never peaks past 40c. he was showing em to me, too. Small server boxes with half the cooling mine has, we are going to have him re-seat the heatsink and physically look at it. The heatsink/cooler I have came with the fan blowing away from the heatsink fins, and can only be mounted vertically, up or down. I can reverse it, though, but what I revered originally was the 200mm fan on top of the case, it was intake now is exhaust, since heat rises and the CPU blows up. Also, its an 80 mm fan on the CPU. I think the error was how i seated it, and the fact I used some no-name stock thermal grease.
October 21, 2008 12:42:05 AM

well, you have two choices, you could RMA your 6000+ for the new one that came out ( 65W edition) OR, you could try a new heatsink.
October 21, 2008 2:48:49 AM

Is your CPU cooler fan pulling air from the same area as the 200mm fan blowing out? If so, the CPU fan probably isn't getting enough air, thus losing it's ability to cool.
October 21, 2008 2:58:31 AM

EDIT- I fixed it! As with 99% of computer issues like these, the issue was between the keyboard and the chair. I neglected to pay attention to the part where the thermal grease guides said "dont flatten it out", I had carefully rubbed it into a thin film along the entire CPU. This time I didn't, just put a dot in the center, a tiny one, and twisted the heatsink clockwise and counter clockwise to eliminate air bubbles. it dropped 20 degrees Celsius to a stable 44c under the same load as before. A HUGE improvement. On another note, my comp friend said if he knew I was going to buy this case he would have sold me his Large case with a refrigeration unit in it and 3 200mm exhaust fans on top. 25c in summer sounds nice =)

However this was a very valuable learning experience for me, I have gone from not knowing how to assemble a system to being able to identify and diagnose problems that arise, and solve them (or narrow them down) without breaking anything. Thanks to everyone!!!!
October 21, 2008 4:10:24 AM

Try under clock and under volt your CPU and see if the problem persists. Try 12x multi with 1.15Vcore. If the problem persists, RMA the CPU because temp sensor is apparently faulty.
October 21, 2008 12:15:22 PM

cyberjock said:
Radiated heat? See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation

If your CPU is glowing like that read hot metal, you are so screwed. Besides, it has probably melted MUCH more than your CPU... like your case too.

You mean convection heat?


No, I don't mean convection. I know the differences between conduction, convection and radiation and all of them play an important part.

With the same convection, putting a piece of paper between the two objects will lessen the heat transfer by radiation...infrared radiation...it doesn't have to be glowing hot for it to have radiative heat, pedant.
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October 21, 2008 1:15:00 PM

gokuson123 said:
EDIT- I fixed it! As with 99% of computer issues like these, the issue was between the keyboard and the chair. I neglected to pay attention to the part where the thermal grease guides said "dont flatten it out", I had carefully rubbed it into a thin film along the entire CPU. This time I didn't, just put a dot in the center, a tiny one, and twisted the heatsink clockwise and counter clockwise to eliminate air bubbles. it dropped 20 degrees Celsius to a stable 44c under the same load as before. A HUGE improvement. On another note, my comp friend said if he knew I was going to buy this case he would have sold me his Large case with a refrigeration unit in it and 3 200mm exhaust fans on top. 25c in summer sounds nice =)

However this was a very valuable learning experience for me, I have gone from not knowing how to assemble a system to being able to identify and diagnose problems that arise, and solve them (or narrow them down) without breaking anything. Thanks to everyone!!!!


I'm a little late but the second you said the fins were cold to the touch while it was on was a seating problem. Good to know that you learned something new.

But remember not all thermal paste are the same. My Zalman came with some in a bottle with a brush applicator. AS5 can also be spread out thinly too. Its all a matter of the quality and type.

Glad to know you got it sloved though. Best way to learn is by doing.
October 21, 2008 2:41:15 PM

Glad you got it worked out. One thing I noticed you mentioning was having a side fan on your case. If you have a side fan you will most likely want it blowing air in, not out as you stated. By having it blowing in you are blowing cool air from the outside directly onto your motherboard, this will help more then trying to have it exhaust air. Anyways, glad things are working out for you, the Athlons are great processors and hopefully should give you the performance you're expecting.
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October 21, 2008 2:55:48 PM

Glad to hear you got it fixed.
So, how warm do the fins get now that it's seated properly? :) 
October 21, 2008 7:56:17 PM

Kari said:
Glad to hear you got it fixed.
So, how warm do the fins get now that it's seated properly? :) 


Well as I type this my CPU is idling at 25c average, and the fins are cold. That is prob because I have the fan blowing up underneath the heatsink now, blowing the air thru the fins to the top exhaust fan. Going to eventually get some better fans that can be attached to the mobo instead of maux cables and have an ice organized setup of air flow.
October 22, 2008 3:06:40 AM

bf2gameplaya said:
No, I don't mean convection. I know the differences between conduction, convection and radiation and all of them play an important part.

With the same convection, putting a piece of paper between the two objects will lessen the heat transfer by radiation...infrared radiation...it doesn't have to be glowing hot for it to have radiative heat, pedant.


You trying to start a flame war with calling names liked 'pedant'. Good job. I'll add you to my list of people I need to ignore... I was trying to get a clarification, but apparently you are too busy mocking everyone else to actually explain your comment for the benefit of other posters.

I really would have expected admins to have edited your message, since flamewars are already common enough in this forum.

I do have a background in thermal performance engineering, and I don't need you explaining jack squat to me. If you knew anything about radiative heat, you'd also be fully aware that it is, by far, the most inefficient way to transfer heat in this situation. There is no infrared spectrum being produced. Check out the heat transfer equations and figure it out. I'm not going to waste my time on your incompetence, since I am just a lonely "pedant". Read up on Planck's Law, that'll help you understand just a little bit better.

My job, at a nuclear power plant, involves understanding heat transfer rates, specific heat capacity of metals and alloys used in the plant, and other factors. Don't try going here, you'll lose this battle....

Have a nice day. :) 
October 22, 2008 3:26:10 AM

oooo nuclear power plant eh? get to use their nuclear rod cooling on your CPU?? :p  jk that would be some major OCing though xD

well hey, he got his problem solved and this forum is finished. lets call it a day, shall we? :) 
November 2, 2008 1:01:09 AM

If they opened a few more windows at them power plants they wouldn't need so many cooling rods!!!
!