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Extreme weird problem

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 1, 2008 6:43:14 AM

Spent countless hours and days testing and trying to fix this very weird problem. Basically, when i do a clean reinstall of my nvidia drivers, my fps gaming is PERFECT. Gameplay is smooth, recoil is good, everything is fine. If i exit the client and load the client again, its hell. Recoil is extremely bad and choppy. Gunfire is slowed. Mouse is hard to be accurate... almost as if im playing with 60fps, 60refresh rate and vsync on. This is not cvar, net, or gameplay related. Im testing on LAN games. Its something to do with my video card / drivers or maybe even bios/windows or hardware... im stumped

So.. to sum it up. I can only load a game ONE time and i must never ever close the game. If i ever close the game, the next time i run ANY game, it will have symptoms of 60fps+vsync on type of feel. Its almost as if windows is altering something or i dont know ...

To fix my problem.. i have to fully uninstall, reinstall my video drivers or even windows sometimes and the FIRST game i play will be completely fine. If i exit the client for any reason, the following time i open up any game will have this symptom of ****. Just doesnt make sense. And on a further not, this is the same for any fps games i try... its HELL

windows xp
e6300 dual core
7600gs 512mb pci-e
1gb ram

More about : extreme weird problem

September 1, 2008 6:51:58 AM

Is it a problem that started after the most recent driver install? Have you rolled back your drivers 2 or 3 steps back?
September 1, 2008 6:58:18 AM

No, its a problem that i had for almost 2 years (after i got my new rig). I never was able to fix it UNTIL a few days ago and i was able to narrow it down to this.

And im not sure but i think it becomes IMMUNE after each driver used. For example... ive tried a total of 4 drivers so far (i cant recall their exact driver versions but well just call them A B C D)

When i installed driver A, it worked perfect. After a few games, the problem came back. Doing a full reinstall did not do anything at all.

Uninstalling driver A and installing driver B fixed it, but after one game, problem came back. Now installing driver A OR B does nothing. So i install driver C.

Driver C fixes the problem, but after one game, same symptoms. Now uninstalling and reinstalling with A, B, OR C does nothing at all. And so i install driver D... and on and on.. eventually ill be out of drivers and nothing will work lol... its as if windows is altering them and keeping track of them or something.. i dont know
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Anonymous
September 1, 2008 7:43:33 AM

if you don't have anything critical i'd recommend re-installing windows on your machine and see if that does anything... if thats not an option make sure once you uninstall a driver to run a driver cleaning program just to make sure there isn't any left over crap

this works well for me:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745

although it may be your drivers i'm suspecting something is up with the O/S
so i stll recommend the re-install of windows
September 1, 2008 7:50:02 AM

Quote:
if you don't have anything critical i'd recommend re-installing windows on your machine and see if that does anything... if thats not an option make sure once you uninstall a driver to run a driver cleaning program just to make sure there isn't any left over crap

this works well for me:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745

although it may be your drivers i'm suspecting something is up with the O/S
so i stll recommend the re-install of windows


I said i already tried reformatting, which is reinstalling windows. And i also said i uninstalled CORRECTLY. Meaning with driver cleaner.
September 1, 2008 7:58:10 AM

try the compatibility mode for the game file
suppose the game is crysis and the executable file is crysis.exe
then right click and them properties
in the comaptibility tab select windows xp or lower (some games may not run if os is older than windows 2000)
September 1, 2008 7:59:10 AM

try the compatibility mode for the game file
suppose the game is crysis and the executable file is crysis.exe
then right click and them properties
in the compatibility tab select windows xp or lower (some games may not run if os is older than windows 2000)
September 1, 2008 8:44:52 AM

Nope doesnt work. I tried most of the "common" fixes. I need a pro on this situation :|
September 1, 2008 9:37:51 AM

is the video card passive? (no fan on the cooler)
September 1, 2008 9:46:37 AM

oh and btw - dont expect performance with such a low end rig for todays standards - perhaps get 4gb, latest video card and a Core2 Duo/Quad @ ~3ghz - that will hammer anything, your rig just cant cut it for todays games etc with such a limited amount of ram, low end video card and the cpu is sort of ok.. ish.
September 1, 2008 9:48:11 AM

Are you kidding me? Can i get some serious help. The fact that i said, everytime i exit and load the client makes it lag. How is it relevant to my computer specs? Oh and by the way im playing counter strike, wc3, quake 3 and quake 4. YEAH i need 4gb. This thread has nothing to do with me complaning about lag running crysis. Its about how "something" is affecting my games for unknown reasons

And what does having a fan have to do with anything? The fact that the FIRST game played works perfectly proves that the video card works well. And by further testing, i tried it with other vid cards.
September 1, 2008 10:51:34 AM

windoze xp,,that is with sp2 or better right??
have you ran memtest on that ram of yours??
now then usually windoze will set the swapfile to 1and 1/2x the system ram,i don't know if this will make a difference,but you could try setting the swapfile size yourself,when i had 1g ram i kept it at 700-1000.
and you have checked all your connections and cleaned out the card slots .
check the fingers on the video card for any foreign matter also try cleaning the fingers on the video card with an eraser regardless of how clean they look,it's obvious that both you and your brother have an electrical/hardware problem of a similar nature,because if it were a driver problem the os would be complaining,bad memory address lousy .dll or some such garbage..
the only other though that comes to mind is,to take the mobo out of the case and test it thusly,if on the other hand you and your brother have the same mobo ,,then it might be something to do with the pci-e slot,you need to be able to examine it carefully ,,and finally 2 years with the same problem,,hells bells,,i would have returned that mobo a long time ago..
you might have to consider replacing the mobo,really respect your patience.. :) 
September 1, 2008 3:18:46 PM

woodyfly said:
Are you kidding me? Can i get some serious help. The fact that i said, everytime i exit and load the client makes it lag. How is it relevant to my computer specs? Oh and by the way im playing counter strike, wc3, quake 3 and quake 4. YEAH i need 4gb. This thread has nothing to do with me complaning about lag running crysis. Its about how "something" is affecting my games for unknown reasons

And what does having a fan have to do with anything? The fact that the FIRST game played works perfectly proves that the video card works well. And by further testing, i tried it with other vid cards.


You want help or not?

fans etc on the card - if its heating up enough on that first run it can throw things off like that oddly enough

system requirements stay the same within apps but other apps like windows (with updates etc) a/v etc start to hammer what used to be "sufficent"
September 1, 2008 9:09:56 PM

I think id smart enough TO make sure. When i say FIRST game i mean my first game. It has nothing to do with time. I can have my cpu usage at 100% for 3 hours and run my game and it works perfect. And ill restart my client in a 15 second period. Oh youre saying during that 15 seconds my computer happens to incredibly heat up and change the game dramatically always. Oh and i do have a temp monitor in nvidia settings.
September 1, 2008 9:17:51 PM

dokk2 said:
windoze xp,,that is with sp2 or better right??
have you ran memtest on that ram of yours??
now then usually windoze will set the swapfile to 1and 1/2x the system ram,i don't know if this will make a difference,but you could try setting the swapfile size yourself,when i had 1g ram i kept it at 700-1000.
and you have checked all your connections and cleaned out the card slots .
check the fingers on the video card for any foreign matter also try cleaning the fingers on the video card with an eraser regardless of how clean they look,it's obvious that both you and your brother have an electrical/hardware problem of a similar nature,because if it were a driver problem the os would be complaining,bad memory address lousy .dll or some such garbage..
the only other though that comes to mind is,to take the mobo out of the case and test it thusly,if on the other hand you and your brother have the same mobo ,,then it might be something to do with the pci-e slot,you need to be able to examine it carefully ,,and finally 2 years with the same problem,,hells bells,,i would have returned that mobo a long time ago..
you might have to consider replacing the mobo,really respect your patience.. :) 


Ive tried another video card on a PCI slot instead of my PCI-e card. It is the same deal. After i hooked it up and installed it, it was working perfect.. i was astonished. But upon quitting the client, the next load is utter ****.

Its not a windows thing i dont think. I tried it in linux and its even MORE evident in linux. I tried testing with 100fps/100refresh rate on a lan game. It felt like i was playing on a LCD + 1998 video card. Some minor flickering, tearing, and bullets shooting extremely slow and recoiled.

The most puzzling thing is that me and my brother have completely diff specs. Im on an intel duo core, hes got amd. Altho we DO have the same video card.. but i have tried it with my older vid card and happens there as well so it cant be the card. It has to be something that CONTROLS the cards and how theyre used (mobo/ram)

Im gonna use memtest86 to test my ram ... but i have no cd-r's left :|


September 1, 2008 9:47:01 PM

Im thinking a SW issue. Is something changing your exe files or anything like that? Have you looked in task manager to see if something else is loading on second run vs first? Something is either changing your settings, or is bleeding the system. Didnt read youve tried linux, Im stumped
September 1, 2008 10:11:21 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Im thinking a SW issue. Is something changing your exe files or anything like that? Have you looked in task manager to see if something else is loading on second run vs first? Something is either changing your settings, or is bleeding the system. Didnt read youve tried linux, Im stumped


It is possible. Right NOW, i can only load one game. But a few days ago, i went on to play for 3 days straight without a problem and it just came out of nowhere.

And actually, its am uncommon notorious problem among some counter-strike players. I was able to talk to some of them that had a similiar problem as mine. They complain that when they "somehow" fix it, it ALWAYS comes back for no reason.

Why were you astonished i tried linux? You thought it was a windows thing? Its even worse in linux. When playing hitscan based games like quake, the bullet "beep" you get for hitting an enemy is delayed by 1 second. If youve played quake you know what i mean. Im playing lan vs bots and the bullet beep hitsounds sounds like im playing with 300 ping
September 1, 2008 10:19:25 PM

I wasnt astounded, Id thought your only used windows, meaning that some apps, or something was causing the bleeding. Using linux, unless you have some of those same apps available would elimanate that. Im wondering if its a DRM issue, but dont know alot about linux, so thats a maybe. Any apps/carryovers from windows to linux that could be causing this? If its exclusive to MMORPs, could be a server thing, especially being a holiday weekend. This happen in single player too?
September 1, 2008 10:35:17 PM

Of course id be careful enough to cross out the possibility of anything net related. Ive tried on single player. On mmorpgs and rts, the problems are not that evident. FPS games have mechanics like aiming, recoil, etc which will very well determine how i play. Right now FPS games are just unplayable. No application/carryovers at all. I also tried reformatting with no service pack or any updates and went straight to test. Same problem. That crosses out any possibility of spyware, applications, etc. It has to be hardware or bios... any bios settings i can play around with..?
September 1, 2008 10:46:43 PM

Im stumoped. Try using memtest. If youve a floppy drive and a floppy.... just throwing it out there.
September 1, 2008 11:00:54 PM

My floppy doesnt work. lol. I guess ill go grab a few cd-rw's today
September 2, 2008 2:28:32 AM

If memtest86 comes out clean.. does that rule out faulty ram/motherboard or is it still possible? I mean right now it could be anything... imma have to try out every piece of hardware out and i dont wanna waste unneeded money
September 2, 2008 2:38:25 AM

If its totally clean, its not the ram
September 2, 2008 11:02:18 PM

Could it be the psu? My brothers psu seems weak as well
September 2, 2008 11:19:52 PM

Still sounds like some sort of memory problem. Like a memory leak.
September 8, 2008 12:07:57 AM

Hah .. i still havent been able to do a mem test ... IM wondering.. whats a good lga 775 mobo? By good i dont mean powerful... granted my 1999 computer ran better than this comp i built in 07
September 8, 2008 12:25:43 AM

woodyfly said:
Could it be the psu? My brothers psu seems weak as well


No, it ain't your PSU, unless your wall socket (house electricity, etc.) is kinda messed up and it's giving to the PSU some weird power, wich i doubt seriously.

Anyway, you have 1GB, so you have Virtual Memory (and swap under Linux) I'd think. Now, check if both OSes are using your HDD instead of the ram on every use. It's a known fact that windows (at least) uses the HDD even if it has enough RAM to allocate memory. Maybe the second time you run the games, Windows (and Linux) uses the HDD to write/read while you play. How it can add up lag to your play? It uses processor time to do those reads and writes, hence it cripples your overall performance (and sucky network drivers add a lot too).

How you can check that? For a long period of time gaming, your rig should work fine: uses RAM all the time cause it happened to assign it there, then, when u unload it uses (or marks) that memory space, so by the second time you load the game (or anything), it uses the HDD (alt-tabbing too).

Hope you can find the fix, cause i know how painfull is machine lag to a good game ~__~

Esop!
September 8, 2008 8:29:15 AM

That makes sense but where do i start? How do i check these things? I remember this problem doesnt come back after starting the second game. A while before i actually was able to play an entire day perfectly, then out of NOWHERE it comes back. And for the people that had similiar problems as mine.. they reported as having fixed it many times but ALWAYS AND ALWAYS came back for no reason out of the blue. Could you elaborate more on what i can do or check out? What are you trying to say? My mobo/hard drive isnt working well together? Or are you saying windows is not?


ALSO..

When installing my HD.. i simply plugged in the cables, screwed on the mounts and let bios auto detect it... there shouldnt be anything more to do .. right?



PS: on a further note.. I never really took this into consideration but my max GB is 137. My sata drive is a 400gb one. Hmm..
Under my device manager.. my sata storage controller is listed so i never bothered using the cd

I ran seagate's discwiz and a messege popped up about the my 137gb situation and i went further to try to fix it... eventually after typing my model number and restarting my comp... this comes up

I have latest bios firmware + service pack

September 8, 2008 1:10:48 PM

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Control/Session Manager/Memory Management -> DisablePagingExecutive = 1

Look up on your registry for that entry, it will erase your HDD... Lol, no... It will tell windows to not read your HDD all the time and try to use RAM as much as possible (seemed to work on mine at least).

Now, the BIOS thingy... It's really up to the MoBo the way it "autodetects" it's devices. Some BIOSes have "32bit access" off by default and not on auto, or SMART monitoring off (this one doesn't affect performance though). Check also for "block transfer" to be on and check if you 134GB supports block transfers (wich are "bursts" from the HDD with more info, sort of). DMA access (wich is the most important of all) must be on/auto in all it's variants (PIO Mode, UDMA, DMA).

About the driver thingy, I can tell why the driver doesn't want to patch it, since it might re-write the MBR of the disk. If u can boot another disk with a temp install of windows and patch it, it prolly erase it's bootable flag and/or clean the MBR (oh, wich is the place on the hard disk that tells "i have this units, with this much space each" and a little more info). I'd say it's a risky move anyway and you prolly don't need it.

Did you check that windows indeed has DMA access for those drives checked? WinXP should have them on by default, but meh... Don't trust Windows, lol. And also, u're using NTFS i'd think, right? What's it's block size? 4Kb?

Oh, and how to see it: simple! When u alt tab, check the HDD light on you PC. If it turns on and off A LOT, then it is indeed that thingy about Virtual Memory / Swap.

Oh, and on Linux it's a little more complicated to check if your HDD is actually using DMA... On a console, with root access, type "man hdparm"; that "hdparm" command tweaks your HDD. But be carefull, since it can also fry it :p 

This might NOT solve your issue at all dude, but it's worth a try i think. Anyway, why not add a second GB of ram and just disable Virtual Memory / Swap? I did that cause i got bored of having to tweak my HDD :p 

Esop!

EDIT: Spelling xP
September 9, 2008 1:32:35 AM

Hmm nothing seems to work. I think my only choice left is buying new hardware. Which piece do you think i should try changing first? Vid card? Mobo? Processor?
September 9, 2008 5:06:48 AM

If you have DDR2, add another Gig IMO.

And if you plan in playing recent games with full eye candy @1600x1200 ish res, get a 4870/GTX260. Even a 4850 can handle that res, but the 4870 will give you a little more room. At lower res, 4850/9800GTX sounds like the way to go.

And if you have a few more bucks, get 4GB RAM (total) and go Vista for DX10 :p 

Esop!
September 9, 2008 5:11:47 AM

Why do i need another gig...? I used to play cs and quake fine with my 512ram 2.5 gh single core athlon... I dont need more eye candy, i need to fix my gaming "problem"
September 9, 2008 5:21:55 AM

Then you might need to downgrade things.

Uhm... I have an Athlon64 X2 4400 and a X1800XL and nothing seems wrong with any old game based on the Q3 engine at all (i still play Soldier of Fortune 2); also i can play UT2003/4 with 0 issues. Hell, i even play CS1.6 with no drama and a week ago or something i played Q2Demo just for old times sake XD

I mean, there has to be something with the MoBo/CPU and the games exe's that escape from our knowledge, but if on an old system they run fine, go and make an oldie.

It might be cheaper than upgrade anyway :p 

Esop!
September 9, 2008 6:45:36 AM

If you want to use your current setup, you really need to do the things posted. 137 gigs showing on a 400 gig HDD tells me somethings wrong right there. The DMA thing is mandatory. Memtest is always a good idea whenever quirky things happen, as that points to ram alot of times. Either get out the wallet, or try whats been said. More than likely, your problem will show up by doing these things
September 11, 2008 12:04:08 AM

Could it be my cpu overheating? I have a gigabyte ga-945p-s3 duo core with a e6300 and with an artic cooler pro it IDLES at 44-46C. It used to idle at 45-50 with my stock cooler..... I even took off the side panel and have a HUGE fan (size of my pc) blowing into the side of the pc. Which hardware piece is causing this overheat? Bad processor? Mobo? ive tried remounting the cooler and processor and applying more thermal paste but no changes.
September 11, 2008 12:24:54 AM

woodyfly said:
Are you kidding me? Can i get some serious help. The fact that i said, everytime i exit and load the client makes it lag. How is it relevant to my computer specs? Oh and by the way im playing counter strike, wc3, quake 3 and quake 4. YEAH i need 4gb. This thread has nothing to do with me complaning about lag running crysis. Its about how "something" is affecting my games for unknown reasons

And what does having a fan have to do with anything? The fact that the FIRST game played works perfectly proves that the video card works well. And by further testing, i tried it with other vid cards.


^ Don't shoot yourself in the foot here :p 

Another thing i came up is underclocking you CPU and video card :p 

If you haven't tried that, try it. It won't hurt your rig anyway, lol.

Esop!
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