Whats Your Take On Thermaltake?

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

hey guys im new to the world of water cooling, and before you all freak out and tell me about how thermaltake is a joke, give me your honest opinion, after may counteroffers i am currently able to buy a thermaltake 760i off of ebay for around 80 bucks, but after everyone saying that its basically junk, im having second thoughts.

I hate really dont overclock that much, although i may in the future. i am mostly concerned about my cpu temps as they stand right now. when i boult my computer i ordered the cpu and motherboard together, so the guy i ordered it from said he would put the cup on an i said fine, i have a stock Intel heat sink and fan on my Core 2 Quad Q9300, and i am idling at 50* C, in under load its much much hotter, i don't know just how hot and i don't want to push it and see.

the q9300 is a 1333FSB 2.5GHz quad core, and however stupid i am, i had been running a rather mild overclock to 2.601GHz, which made little to no difference in temps about 2 degrees or so, no voltage change, simply bumped the clock.

I dont like my cpu running that hot and want to cool it down, should i be running around 50 - 53* at idle with this chip? or could it be that its not seated well?

now i know most of you will say air cooling such as the TRUE, however i would rather not go that route as it would involve loosing a ram slot and modification to my case and power supply housing, i would much rather go water for the sake of space, as well as cooling of coarse.

Is the Thermaltake a good water cooling starter kit, i would like to keep things under $120 which is less than the cost of a radiator in most custom wc systems, and i wpild most likely be upgrading the system as i go, maybe new pump and radiator some time. should i buy this system for now? or can somone suggest a better one for under $120

remember i have a 775 cpu

thanks a million

Conumdrum · Oct 14, 2009

I'll make it short. I could post pics and experiances. I could tell you stories of people buying TT and then spending lots more, replacing TT stuff wholly with real watercooling.

When people put in their sig "Friends don't let friends buy Thermaltake", it means something.

If thats all you can spend, then don't go watercooling. A basic watercooling rig that's worth it's snuff is over $200 easy.

If your still interested, please read the WC guide, and try to find one good comment anywhere that TT is good.

You can buy a great heatsink for your CPU for under $50 and your load will not be above 60C, you'll idle in the 30s. You got a stock heatsink and I have no idea if your case has good airflow.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

so its a total joke, ok then i wont buy it. but their is no way to get a water cooling kit for under $200? I know some people pride them selvs on spending hige amounts of money on their water cooling but i would just like to lower my temperatures into the 30's range, is that impossible, i cant fit a large cooler on my motherboard or in my case so what should i do?

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

also my case is a Raidmax Smilodon with all aftermarket fans, 3 120mm's (one mounted up top cut myself) and 4 80mm's (one mounted in floppy drive bays to cool ram) as well as my psu's 140mm fan. so i think my ventilation is pretty good.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

Conumdrum :

What would i need a tipple fan rad such as the thermochill pa 120.3 (which is what you use i think)? Going to CPU only at the moment don't plan on WC'ing the gpu any time in the future, could i get away with a double or dare i say single fan rad?

and for the radiator you choose, what do you suggest for a flow on my pump?

Conumdrum · Oct 14, 2009

I suggest you spend a week or so on the watercooling guide. A question like you just asked means you got no clue. See you in a week, read the guide. Took me 3 months before I bought my FIRST WC part.

Slow down.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

Conumdrum :

i have been looking at air coolers for around a month and a half, and water for around 2 weeks now, i really wanted to buy an all in one kit, however most of the ones i looked the reviews sucked or they were $500 as in the Reserator XT or the $250 Swiftech H20-220. so i posted the thread in hopes that someone would pop up with a kit that i missed, which hasn't happened.

as far as building on part by part, im not to keen on the idea, a tipple would be $100+ and would keep my cpu ice cold even with an overclock and leave room for a gpu water block to be added in the loop.

you said your self, mines a core 2 quad not an i7, it will be mounted outside

For the old Q6600 CPUs and the old 4870 and GTX280 cards.
IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

so if i used a triple i would have more than i really need, considering im only cooling the cpu, so i asked what about a single, but you use 2 triples and most every test you posted on your wc guide are triples, im not looking to do any insane overclocking 3ghz maxx and probably not there, i will most likely be leaving it where it is at 2.6GHz.

i did fond dual rad test here

http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/SwiftechMCR220-Review.html

where i see good results but that rad is $140, which is more than your triples which i found for $120.

i know a double would be enough for my cpu, but if in the future i wanted to put my gpu on there i don't think it would cover both the cpu overclocked and the gpu.

im just trying to ask your opinion on things and you simply refer me away, thats fine, but a simple link or simple answer would much better, rather than telling everyone who posts on here that they need to read your post about water cooling. i did enjoy your water cooling guide it was informative and it had lots of good links. however i hate to say it but your a bit of a jerk, i knew you were before i posted because of your rudeness to others who were simply wondering, i was somewhat shocked when i first read some of your posts such as "Boy I'm glad the short school bus left.", becoming informed that's what toms forums are about, people helping each other,and i know you have helped lots and lots of people figure out their cooling, and i definitely know im not the most knowledgeable person in the world, but i do have other things, i do this computer stuff because i like it, i like the challenge of building faster computers and more efficient cooling systems, being on the edge of technology and most of all the people i meet while doing it. i have read things but i don't have limitless time and i also i don't have $600 to dump into cooling like you, i am currently attending a private college for engineering at about $55,000 a year, i also cant see spending $200 on tiny little a rad, i put a new rad in my car and it wasnt much more than that.

thank you

Conumdrum · Oct 14, 2009

I don't really care what your car rad cost, this is a PC. It's different.

The rad you mentioned is ONLY $44.95 Dunno where you looked, but the MCR 220 is ONLY that. Good basic rad.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/radiators.html
I did list some popular quality USA sites, none have that silly price.

Okay, now I know where you stand on your knowlwdge and budget. Asking first about TT just gets my willies up. If you spent lots of time looking at watercooling (dunno where) and ask about a TT kit I just put you with the rest of the uninformed. We see a LOT here.

I apologize to you, you know a bit and have even looked at the 'god' site of watercooling, Martins and Skinnee. You didn't mention that before. A quick look is like listening to a prof talk about thermal dynamics for 15 minutes, and saying you got it all figured out.

The facts are you want to cool a Q9300 only?

Then a basic kit like this is all you need. You'll need to cool max about 200 watts, probably less at MAX possible oveclock. Look up the heatload charts on Martins for a MCR220 and take into account your ambient temps. If Martin did it at 25C ambient and you run 30C ambient, add 5C to your calculations. Do you know what your CPU heatload is? You could run Medium fans and be just fine, and while not gaming or encoding get a fan controller and run them on low. You don't need a 120x3 rad. I need a 120x3 low FPI for my system because when I overclock I make a LOT of heat and need the big rad to keep my Delta T temps low for max overclock. Delta T? Yep. But I can be over 300 watts under load. I plan ahead.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swh2apullico.html

It's a solid CPU cooler, enuff rad, and a quality pump and res. It's QUALITY. You could spend more on a CPU block, better hose, better res, awesome clamps, fatboy barbs, uber quality fans. Thats how I easily hit $600 on my FIRST WC rig. I spent $130 on my GPU cooler. You might even find used deals on the same stuff in the link if you had at least 100 posts on a few of the forums I listed.

Yea, I'm hard, but I don't cut corners or facts. I have seen too many 'less than good WC rigs' fall in flames. Might be poor quality or 'short bus' stoopidity. Not everyone should put water in their PC, be it able to absorb the cost of replacing a ruined mobo or just can't put 17 lego blocks together right. Like I said, we see it all here. Try asking the same original (cut n paste) question at Xtreme Forums, see what you get.

I want successful rigs to happen.

You don't want to spend $$ on a good WC rig? No skin off my back. I'm combative but pushing you to learn.

In your court. Maybe you need to ask at some other forums what to do.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 14, 2009

Im sorry to sound so combative, but your short bus comment on the other tread sort of set my tone for your replys, much as my thermaltake set the tone for mine.

yes i only want to cool my cpu as of now, i guess i should have explained my self better, i asked about thermaltake because they are cheap, which is the only reason anyone buys them at all. I would be upgrading components as i go but basically wanted to know just how bad it is, i know its bad but how bad. i would most likely be putting a dual rad and new pump on for starters sometime after thanksgiving, i simply wanted to know if it would hold me over until then, i would probably still use the water block until after the new year. but from what you say its not even worth it for the next few weeks.

if i am to build a water cooling system i would be doing it in pieces, over the next month or so, my first buy being the rad, then pump& Reservoir, then water block, barbs and such. but being able to mount everything on the rear of my case would be nice, although not a must have, hence the single rad question. i think that as of right now if i'm going to build a system, why go single rad.
my cpu is rather low on the heat output as compared to the i7's less than 200watts just as you said (probably more like 160watts)

how about if i spec out a few things and you give me your honest opinion on it-
based on what i read on martins lab this rad looks good-

XSPC RS240, its about the same as the MCR220, but with a lower pressure drop and better wattage dispersal numbers,
martins liquid labs even says

"You can cool a very hot overclocked quad core or something in the 200W range with fans running about 2400RPM"
which is probably more than enough for what im doing,

as for my pump, like the XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump, its really quiet, has a huge reservoir, uses less power, and fits in my drive bays, which is a big plus in my book, the more i can get in my case, without huge airflow problems, the better. it also comes in around $45-80 which isn't horrible.

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/XSPC-DualBay-ReservoirPump-Review.html

http://www.frozencpu.com/search.html?mv_profile=keyword_search&mv_session_id=3PhBrpaI&searchspec=XSPC+Dual+Bay+Reservoir+Pump&go.x=0&go.y=0

waterblock i was looking around and in a few of the tests i looked at the D-Tek Fuzion V2 seems to be a contender, but it does have a pretty large pressure drop, none the less it looks pretty good and i will be running a cpu only loop so no big deal, also costs around $70 or so

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=210

or
http://www.jab-tech.com/D-tek-Fuzion-V2-1366-pr-4490.html only $50, but i would need to buy a 775 mount for it.

this is just a few of my thoughts on my FIRST water cooling system, im no expert but i have done a little research, martins being my main site, i didn't know it was the "god" site but now that you said so it makes me feel like i was using a good resource.

oh yea and P.S.
i looked at this rad few weeks ago MCRH20-220, must have gotten it confused with the MCR220-QP

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108105&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Water+Cooling-_-Swiftech+Inc.-_-35108105

also sorry if i was rude about the short bus comment, i have 2 friends who were in a car accident about 2 years ago, both suffer from brain damage, one is still in a coma, and the other "rides the short bus" so to speak, so when people make comments like that i tend to get somewhat worked up.

Conumdrum · Oct 14, 2009

No worries, all is good. Ya know I mean it in a non-specfic way.

Anhoo, the last link you showed is actually decent for your CPU. It's not great, but it's quality. The nice thing about that pump/block in one is it's an MCP350 with a block built on it. When you upgrade you can keep the pump part and buy an aftermarket top for it, and mod it by soldering two solder junctions to make it an MCP355.

That said, it's still not going to give stellar temps becase it was designed when CPUs were baerly hitting 110 watts.

The res/pump you linked to isn't used much. The pump is kinda weak by todays standards. It's also hard to fill unless you have a fill tube to the top. It will work for your setup, but you'll prolly replace it with a better one someday.

Don't worry about power, a watercooling setup and fans uses VERY little power in comparison to the rest of your system.

The XSPC RS rad is old. The RX is the newer better one by a long shot. You'd be satisfied with the MCR220, and it's MUCH cheaper.

Look into the Swiftech GTZ CPU block. And the tests on Skinnes and Martins site. It's getting cheaper since the GTX released.
Look at the price.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapgtzcpuwa.html

And The V2 with 775 mounting.
http://www.jab-tech.com/D-tek-Fuzion-V2-pr-4155.html
The V2 isn't bad, you'd be fine with it.

So there is some validation on your picks, your getting there.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

i knew that pump wasn't great, but is it worth the upgrade, or should i simply buy a better pump, i basically wasn't looking at buying that one for superb performance, more about compactness, should i simply scrap the all in one design and go for a better pump, say a danger den DD12V-D5? definitely a dc pump, preferably something that fits well in the case.

most likely a pair of Yate Loon fans for the rad

i will be using arctic silver 5 for my paste, not much to say there, its kind of an industry standard.

my power supply is 850w, so power consumption really wasn't an issue, just as you said, just trying to go green haha

Shadow703793 · Oct 15, 2009

It's getting cheaper since the GTX released.

Don't you mean the Swiftech XT? :lol:

At any rate, OP listen to Conumdrum. He knows what he's doing.

As for pump, imo, get a D5/MCP655 and a micro res. ABSOLUTELY no kits from TT,etc. If you are REALLY willing to mod this is possible to go below $200: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/253560-29-cheapest
just swap out the heatercore to a MCR220 if you want. Doing a mod/DIY such as this is not for everyone.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

Shadow703793 :

yea doing my own mods is no problem, i have plenty of tools and have much knowledgeable family (lots of e-engineers) my father was also an industrial instrument tech for 25 years. that's a good post ill be sure to read it thoroughly. Don't worry im not going tt, Conumdrum as well as many others have convinced me other wise. i figured that a post on tt was a dangerous one based upon the community opinion on their products, but i didn't expect it would be as strong as it has been. im surprised that tt does as well as they seem to given the over all feeling of the entire community towards their stuff, i guess its just noobs, (such as myself) who keep them in business, because you must adbit a sub $200 all in one water cooling kit is an appealing idea.

SpidersWeb · Oct 15, 2009

Off the topic of water cooling, but I just wanted to add the point that for under $200 you could get a better case (which would fit a good CPU cooler) and a good air cooler.

If you really want to do water cooling as a DIY hobby project etc then that's awesome, but sounds like you just wanted a one-stop-purchase so your PC could run cooler with a bit of overclock room - an air setup will do that perfectly fine.

Shadow703793 · Oct 15, 2009

^You do have a point there. A CM HAF932 + a Megahelme would be under $200.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

yea that is true, but i just bought my case about 6 months ago and really wouldn't want to go to a full tower. i would love to do it as a hobby however im at college, which means no tools or space to tinker, that is why i wanted the "one stop shop" so i could go water now and tinker when i get on Christmas break, which is when the upgrading would take place.

Conumdrum · Oct 15, 2009

Hmm, if you buy a better pump and res your looking at more money. If money is tight then go with the pump/res setup you have linked. It's enuff.

There lies your problem. Go lesser price now and spend more later, in a year or two. if you plan to keep the same CPU for over a year at least, then go cheap. At least you know your options.

Danger Den doesn't make pumps. They are rebadged Laing pumps. Swiftech does the same. So, like in my massive post/link you got to understand the lingo.

The DD12V-D5 is a Laing D5 pump. It's pretty good. Plenty enuff. The D5 vario is better. The DDC3.2 (or 3.25) is even better, but you need a new top for it for proper hose sizing. Look up DDC3.2 tops testing on the god site.

You don't need a massive top pump. I'd get these two things for pump res.
http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd-cpx_pro-12v_pump.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcmire2re.html
Or just go with your original choice, it's enuff for now.

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

ok i will go with the previous spec'd pump and such, thanks i will probably have that cpu for a little while, but will be going i7 sometime next year, say around this time octoberish. so i will save the cooling upgrades for then. price is a definite deciding factor in my buying, but as long as i space it out so i can try to have some money coming in instead of simply sucking on the bank account that would make me feel better about spending a little more, as for now though ill go with the system we have.

Conumdrum · Oct 15, 2009

Remember you can get a good air HS for it under $50 and not worry about it. Air cooling is very viable and worth every penny, not like water. It's extravigant and not needed in most cases. But it sure is fun and neat.

Look here for a good air HS.
http://www.frostytech.com/

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

yea but the size and loss of a dimm slot is a negative, not to mention water is fun and neat.

mark_k · Oct 15, 2009

OP,

You mentioned that you had someone else mount your CPU.

If you are not comfortable with mounting a CPU, you may want to start out with air cooling and work your way up.

Good Luck

gabrieljaquish · Oct 15, 2009

oh no thats not what i ment, i have built my own computers for years, i orderd the mobo and cpu together so he mounted it for me, i have mounted lots of cpus, no big deal.

Whats Your Take On Thermaltake?

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