Drugs

Should We legalize Drugs?
What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Weed? Sure. Crack? Heroin? Nah.

Breaking News: God expelled from Netherlands; not good enough. Details to come.
War Eagle

Reply to Auburn9698

what is going on with the site, unastable and all. i think mj should definately be legal (btw i don't smoke). and all the other drugs should be decriminilized with the exception of those who sell. isn't a majority of our prison population due to possesion arrests?

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Way too much of it is. Got curious and looked into that a few years back. I mean, when I see people getting 20 freakin' years just for relatively small possession of WEED, I think , wtf?!?!

Breaking News: God expelled from Netherlands; not good enough. Details to come.
War EagleEdited by Auburn9698 on 04/24/03 12:22 PM.

Reply to Auburn9698

prison is supposed to be for people who a menace or danger to society. when ever has a pothead been a danger except at a buffet?

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Then we'd be Dutch.

I'm still not convinced that legalizing drugs is a brilliant idea.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

Class A drugs, definitely not!

Hash, pot, weed or whatever you call it...dunno. I reckon it depends on the way society would treat such legalisation. Would they smoke and drive? Smoke then go to work?

Not a great thing, but if (like alcohol) practiced in the right conditions and taken in moderation prolly not dangerous. Problem is it stays in the bloodstream for a lot longer.

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Reply to camieabz

mj is more harmless than alcahol. besides mj would keep ensure that the junk food business would never go out of business. have there ever been any deaths behind the wheel of a vehicle because the driver was stoned? what are class a drugs?

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

I think marijuana should be 100% legalized, and all other drugs atleast decriminalized, if not legalized. I don't do any drugs, and don't smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, but it is obvious to me that illegalization only causes problems.

For drugs, alcohol abuse is the worst drug epidemic our country is facing. Alcohol abuse is the leading cause of death among teenagers and college students, both from physical overdoses and resulting deaths from drunk driving or other accidents. If you go into any hospital you will see that the effects of alcohol abuse is worse than the effects of cocaine, heroine, and crack combined. It's the sad truth.

I say that it's not our countries business to tell people HOW they can ruin their own lives. We let people ruin their lives through alcohol use, gambling, poor financial decisions, and just overall bad choices. Drug use should be no different, and if some moron wants to f*ck his life over smoking crack, let him. And, if that person truly needs help afterwards, spend money helping that person rather than spending 10 times more throwing him in prison.

The drug war is the most ludicrous venture our country has undertook, and is the single thing I have the most problem with.

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

I've driven high ONCE. The tunnel vision pretty much makes it the most dangerous thing I've ever done behind the wheel. I was so high that I didn't know what I was doing. I was so pissed off at my friends for letting me get behind the wheel. I would have crashed if I wasn't driving 5 miles an hour and had friends driving in front of me and behind me keeping me in check.

Don't tell me that pot is less dangerous. It screws up your perception and thought process. I've never heard of pot being good for you either. It's great as a medicine for those in pain, I can see that, and it's good as a recreational toy. That's about it. Personally I believe that there are enough pain killers out there so I'm not so sure we need another one. Red wine on the other hand is said to be healthy for you in moderation.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

I'd say legalize drugs if they can prove that it will reduce crime. If they can prove that it reduces crime and that they can legislate it properly then that would be a step forward.

I still haven't seen any evidence that they can control the legalization of crack cocain or extasy though, etc. Hell, they can't even get people educated enough on the true nature of these drugs. People still think that x is harmless.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

i would say by legalizing drugs you would make a huge dent in the amount of crime. why are drugs illegal in the first place? does anybody know why? if you make drugs legal you will put drug dealers and pushers out of business by legalizing and then licensing it. 2nd by making it legal you will help to reduce the amount of people who do drugs because they are illegal. all in all education leads to good decisions. educate people, do not threaten them and throw them in jail.

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Maybe some kind of compromise where they're decriminalized but all jobs have drug tests as a condition for employment so that there's incentive not to use drugs. Maybe even drug test at universities or something.

I just see how stupid people are with Alcohol and drugs as it is right now and I can't imagine how much worse it would be, especially for the highschool and college students, if drugs were easily accessable and cheap.

Tax drugs?

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

Quote :

when ever has a pothead been a danger except at a buffet?

LOL!

Yeah, driving under of the influence of any drug shouldn't be legal. Make weed legal? Sure. Driving while stoned is different. I drove that way a few times in college, but it made me a little paranoid, so I just walked after that.

Breaking News: God expelled from Netherlands; not good enough. Details to come.
War Eagle

Reply to Auburn9698

the problem with our country is that we are quick to blame other people, things, etc for our behaviors and not take personal responsibility for our actions. if we would educate and help people with drug problems i think the outcome would be different. i understand the evil side of drug addiction, and the only thing that is worse is the way our country tries to "fight" the "war on drugs". anytime a stigma is attached to anything be it drugs, sex, alcahol, etc you are only going to encourage kids to do more of what you tell them not too. i believe you will always have people who will fVck up their lives and that is their right, but for a country founded on personal freedom, freedom of the individual, there sure is a lot we can not do. i believe that what ever you do on your own time is your business. i think that as long as people use anything in moderation it is okay. we live in a culture of fear and as long as we do that nothing will change!

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Sure, but drinking and drugs aren't a personal issue. By the time they become a problem they're the problem of the person, their family, and their friends.

Let me add that since they made cigarette smoking illegal in public restaurants and clubs, it's been a lot nicer to go out in California. Why? Cigarette smoking affects those around smokers as well.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

i agree w/you and dhlucke (s) that you probably shoudn't drive while under the influence of any mind altering substance.

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

people who become adicts are adicts because they loose control of the situation they are in. balance and moderation are the key. anytime you engage in any activity full blown without regard to the outcome you are treading in dangerous territory. do they really not allow smoke in bars, i find that one hard to believe?

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

Bars, Restaurants, and pretty much anywhere else public. You can smoke outside on the street though.

Smokers aren't really high on the totem pole here.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

us smokers don't seem to be to high on anyone's totem pole. i only smoke when i drink, that would be interesting to say the least, but i understand the joy of being able to go to a restaurant with out being bombarded by smoke.

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

weed/hash, yeah, crack/cocaine, heroine, LSD, PCP, mescaline, and on and on and on - never

I'm
just
taking
up
space.

Heheheh, and you thought I was done

Reply to error_911

Why is everyone cool about weed? Is it only a mild stimulant??

Algebra was easy for the Romans because "X" was always 10 :lol: 
Jay Kay

Reply to jaythaman

mj is a depressent not a stimulant. for the most part harmless

What you need and everything you'll feel is just a question of the deal In the eye of storm just think of the lonely dove the experience of survival is the key to the gravity of love

Reply to jmycal

well yeah, it is only a mild stimulant, doesn't affect your motor skills, isn't physically or psychologically addictive, isn't too bad for your health and even with prolongued use there are not too many signs pointting towards bad long-term effects. In full reality, marijuana is less unhealthy than Alcohol, not only less addictive (because it isn't), cigarettes and a vast majority of prescription drugs. Many users of morphine and other pain relievers such as Viox, Codeine derrivatives, Valium - all kinds of EXTREMELY unhealthy, HIGLY addictive PRESCRIPTION drugs could be subsituted by marijuana for its pain-relieving effect. I mean, the government keeps on messing up - who do you think developped Extacy, Heroin, PCP, Speed (also known in the prescription world as Effedrin) - and Cocaine (hence Coca-Cola - aka Cocaine mixed with sugar water, which used to be a cough medecine, head-ache medecine and "brain tonic" in the early 1900's.

I'm
just
taking
up
space.

Heheheh, and you thought I was done

Reply to error_911

Quote :

isn't physically or psychologically addictive

MJ IS psychologically addictive. It typically takes a certain type of psyce to become addicted to it but it does happen.

Quote :

I mean, the government keeps on messing up - who do you think developped Extacy, Heroin, PCP, Speed (also known in the prescription world as Effedrin) - and Cocaine (hence Coca-Cola - aka Cocaine mixed with sugar water, which used to be a cough medecine, head-ache medecine and "brain tonic" in the early 1900's

Efedrin comes from the herb Ma Huang which has been used for thousands of years. Speed is not Efedrin. Cocaine comes from the coca plant also used for thousands of years. You are correct about PCP and Ecstacy, they were created by doctors, not neccesarily the gov. (PCP is actually used and developed for animals)

I agree that prescription drugs are far more addictive and dangerous than MJ. I've seen the effects of addicted people for years now. I'll even rate the level of nastyness for you

1. Heroin
2. Crack
3. Alchohol
4. Meth
5. Ecstacy
6. Acid - Not as a addiction but the [-peep-] can fry your brain
7. Prescription Meds - They'll shred your liver/kidneys like nothing else
8. Steroid - Mentally addictive
9. Cigs - Nothing like hearing that whooping hacking cough first thing in the morning or watching them freak when no smokes available, reminds me of #2 when they cant get thier fix.
10. MJ - Only bad thing about it is that it makes people a little slow and lazy.

I think alchohol is far more dangerous than weed. When I've been drunk I've driven too fast, tried to [-peep-] everything in sight, tried to fight people/friends, etc...

Now weed, I've eaten too much, fallen asleep on the couch, drove maybe a little too slow, but I felt that I was very aware of what was going on, perhaps a little too aware.

I'd date a gal who smoked weed before I'd date one who smoked cigs. No offense to the smokers out there but ya'll stink.... literally.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

Reply to Pettytheft

I had a friend who smoked a lot of weed. We were great friends in high school. After high school when I moved to Europe I lost contact with him, but when I came home a couple years later I dropped by to see how he was. He had smoked so much weed that it was very noticable. He spent all his money on weed, still lived at home, had a 16 year old girl friend, and was pretty slow. All of our friends had stopped hanging out with him since weed had basically become the priority of his life. Couldn't hold a conversation with him. Never saw him again after that.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

I could be the only one here who simply has the most extremist anti-tobacco views ever, when it comes to weed or whatever is smoked, with the exception of the cigar and the arabic Arguileh.
Nothing could convince me, I simply am born to hate these substances and just can't say yes to legalizing them, no matter how good it can be.

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Reply to eden

What about water pipes? That was fun in Turkey. They probably do that in Lebanon too.

Everyone should be like the Dutch. They're perfect.

Reply to dhlucke

Weed, yes. My step father suffers from MS quite badly and takes a little weed to ease the pain. Strangely, since smoking weed he's given up cigs.

Decriminalise heroin and make it freely available via a pharmacy. Crime would drop quite heavily, as there would no longer be a need for them to mug people, break into cars or homes in order to snatch some posessions just to pawn to get money. Plus a lot of people doing smack need help, and want help to get off it.

Netherlands Netherlands uber alles

Reply to RobD

You'd need some serious security measures for pharmacies. Other than that, I agree.

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Reply to WingDing

I think it's the only way. I mean, the current stance doesn't exactly work does it? And most addicts only turn to crime out of desperation for money to fund the habit.

Have a crocodile infested moat round the pharmacy. That'll do it.

Netherlands Netherlands uber alles

Reply to RobD

Legalize drugs?
Hmmm, hard to say.
The 'best' thing would be to 'get rid of' drugs completely, I know it will never work but that would be ideal.

However, as it is now I think that legalizing weed wont be a bad thing.
I rather see stoned people when I go out on weekends than drunk, howling morons that fancy picking a fight with the next man.

Cigarettes; ban them.
They do nothing good, absolutely nothing.
I´ve been smoking for like 10 years myself (not anymore though) and I hate
the fact that I can´t go out to a pub without having my clothes stinking of cigarette
smoke when I go home.
And it is really disgusting to breath the 'air' in the pub as well, makes me choke.

Weed does make people lazy and slow...
In a 5 years period of my life I used to smoke weed, not everyday but sometimes I smoked around the clock for months...
It was perfect for me as I was unemplyed and had 'nothing better to do',
I woke up and skinned a joint then I entertained myself with staring at the wall for a
couple of hours...oh the joy.
Nah, not really...but not far from it :smile:

I am not smoking weed anymore...why? dunno...I guess I got 'tired' of it, been there done that.
After smoking heavily for a couple of months and then suddenly stop smoking you get the
oddest dreams at night and you wake up bathing in sweat, not a pleasant thing.

I also [-peep-] up my economy by not paying bills when they should be paid and I also
put money on weed.
I followed the motto 'I do it tomorrow'...

If you have a job and combine it with smoking weed 'casually' then I don´t think there is
a problem, same goes for alcohol.
It is when you are unemployed or have some other sort of problems it gets dangerous to use drugs I think.

Btw, tobacco is the indians way to repay the Americans for taking their land :tongue:

My sig, not yours

Reply to Jake75

Over time MJ will become a thing of the past, society will evolve, just like cig is slowly phasing out.

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Reply to eden

Maybe so...but I think people need a 'blast' from time to time to 'forget' their
boring lives.
Drugs will always exist and the users will exist as well.

Well, maybe we can remove the receptors by genetically tweak future human
beings?
That would be something, I want a backup penis.

My sig, not yours

Reply to Jake75

Soft drugs (weed, hasj, maruahana or whatever you like to call it) is in most cases less dangerous then alcohol and smoking. It also isn't very addictive. And ofcourse it is already legal here... not that I ever smoked it.

Hard drugs should all be banned... they're way to dangerous.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on :eek:

Reply to svol

Not to bring out the statistics book like someone who tries to act like a mom, but it seems to be proven lately that 1/3rd of road accidents are being caused by pot lately. It could be just Canada stats, but it seems to be on the rise, sadly.
Anyways I don't know why I even mention this, all I want is to press a virtual red button that will abolish it and cigarettes forever. [surprised]

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Reply to eden

I forgot to mention, yes the water pipes, if we are thinking of the same product, are what I meant by Arguileh. It's water that evaporates by being smoked, and you can put pommade on the top or simple coal. Although I don't intend to try it, I never minded it because not only is it relatively harmless but it simply does not stink. But pot, cig, who cares, they're all about burning chemicals and plants, and I can't even stand looking at them!

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Reply to eden

Feed em lots of drugs. Let those who wanna use em die.

All they deserve really.

Junkie Scum

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Reply to camieabz

Don't you smoke?

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Reply to eden

I'm sorry but 1/3 of road accidents are NOT caused by pot. That is a flat out lie by the anti drug "lobby."

The stupid commercials in the US lately about "how bad marijuana is" disgusts me beyond all belief.

They show teens getting knocked up and blame it on pot. The fact is that sh!tloads more teens get drunk and put out than the ones who smoke weed. They show traffic accidents and say "1/3 of all drivers who caused car crashes that were tested for drugs tested positive for marijuana" giving some ridiculously skewed statistic that is a flat out attempt to decieve. The facts are drunk driving is far more harmful and dangerous and is a much bigger problem for our country.

If anything our country should be trying to get people to stop drinking rather than smoking weed or cigarettes. It's mind boggling...

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

In a way that means that almost 2/3rd of accidents come from drunk driving then. That still puts weed smoking as a fairly big problem. Whether it is supposedly medicinal or not (like when the hell have we stopped using other things which can also relax us?), it still does impair the mind.
Here, weed is not more physical side-effect, while cigarette is. However the reciprocal thing is that cigarette does not cause side-effects like pot would do, as in tweak your mind out. Tons of people smoke packs, and don't get light-headed and lost. Weed does that, without destroying your lungs as much. So clearly, while pot is less harmfulfor your health, no one said it isn't harmful PERIOD.

AND IT STINKS.
I swear, if it becomes publically legal, whenever I'll walk near a pot smoker, I'll make sure to wear a gas mask in front of him just to show him how much he STINKS! :mad:
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This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile: Edited by Eden on 04/26/03 04:49 PM.

Reply to eden

The "1/3 of all tested for drugs tested positive for marijuana" does not mean that 1/3 of accidents are caused by pot. That is such a generic statistic that it doesn't say WHAT OTHER drugs were also found in their system (alcohol) or even what percentage of people were tested. To show how meaningless and empty that "statistic" is, for all we know it could just mean that out of say 1000 accidents, they tested 100 people for drugs, and 33 tested positive for marijuana, and of those 23 tested positive for other drugs including alcohol, speed, or crack, meaning only 10/1000 were under the influence of only pot (only 1%). It does not mean that out of every 1000 accidents they test 1000 people and out of those, 333 tested positive for only marijuana.

That's why I hate these anti-pot commercials. They are just flat out lies and put this misguided focus on preventing relatively harmless drug use rather than focusing on the true problem of alcohol abuse among teenagers.

Doesn't that strike anyone as odd? That alcohol abuse is the number one killer of our nations youth, yet you see practically NO attempt to disuade underage drinking through public service ads? Isn't it odd that it is illegal to advertise tobacco on television, yet you constantly see alcohol ads which portray drinking as completely harmless and actually REQUIRED to have a good time? I guess I might just be wierd, but it is so f*cking incomprehensible to me...

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

I never heard that so much road accidents where caused by pot here in Holland. Maybe that is because you can smoke it frealy on the street so you don't have to hide in your car?

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on :eek:

Reply to svol

Ahh I don't know, but I do know that pot DOES eventually cause some judgement loss. Even though I never tried it, or even seen someone after using it, I've heard enough of friends who did and got stoned. Dunno anyways what other smoking drug "stones" you or uses that verb to portray being completly lost.

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Reply to eden

I never disagreed with you on the beer issue. I totally agree. Now I've been really irritated lately with the adds, by Blue Light, they just throw stuff like "Less is More", take less and get more of what you want. And guess who was in it? A lady in a very thin bra walking in a bar, with two young gents drinking for their lives.
Utterly sad.
However I know around me enough people who know of their risks, and most of them, at least, won't drive if they are drunk. I'd expect a bottom of the barrel consciousness and it seems they have that at the very least. My dad is that way. Although I've never seen him completely drunk, I know he has never drank a lot of beers when he knows he is driving later on. Maybe the issue is different in the US, but you also have to know what age is affected most. If it's teens that constitute more than 50% of the accidents, then yes it needs to be stopped.

And just stop saying pot's harmless, because it is not. If improperly used (which the majority go for that by abuse of it), it'll only cause worse effects, all mixed into what modern parties have become, houses of honor-burning.

But I will simply not accept public pot smoking, never will, PERIOD.

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Reply to eden

Pot is relatively harmless. It is. I don't smoke pot but I've been around enough people to know that it is not so bad, and have done enough research myself that points to that fact.

The only time pot becomes harmful is when people do it way too much, then they just become loser stoners. But if someone eats McDonald's too much, then they'll become giant sloths that are iller than stoners are.

Sure pot changes your state of mind, but not nearly the same way that alcohol does. It is different, and if you have ever been around drunk people and stoned people you'd know what I mean. I would trust a stoned person to be able to do something that needed to be done much more so than a drunk person... I think it would be better if people smoked pot rather than drank alcohol.

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

Quote :

Whether it is supposedly medicinal or not (like when the hell have we stopped using other things which can also relax us?), it still does impair the mind

My stepfather uses it because he has MS. It's the only thing that relieves the symptoms. It was recommended by his doctor, very discreetly mind.

Netherlands Netherlands uber alles

Reply to RobD

Quote :

Ahh I don't know, but I do know that pot DOES eventually cause some judgement loss. Even though I never tried it, or even seen someone after using it, I've heard enough of friends who did and got stoned. Dunno anyways what other smoking drug "stones" you or uses that verb to portray being completly lost.

So does alcohol and most medicins... just don't drive with it. And if you do then you're totally insane.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on :eek:

Reply to svol

I really don't think marijuana effects judgement, decision-making ability, and motor skills the way alcohol does. I have been the passenger of a car where the driver was stoned, or even smoking it while driving. At first it was a little uncomfortable, but after awhile I noticed that the driver drove slower than normally, and did not seem to be distracted from driving in any way. Of course I'd rather not have people drive while stoned, but from personal observation it did not seem to be a reckless or dangerous situation.

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

Of course, there are reasonable arguments on all sides of the drug fence. Drugs are bad. Drugs are good. The argument will go on forever. But, listen to what I do, and tell me - Do I deserve to be punished for it?

I smoke Marijuana every day. I grow it. I DON'T sell ANY of what I grow, or even give it away. Me and my wife smoke it all. I have only enough plants to make sure that we have what we want, and no more. The weed doesn't ever leave my house. It is born there, and dies there in a plume of smoke (yummy).

I have a good job and what a lot of people may consider a generally "normal" life.

So, what exactly am I doing wrong by smoking a few joints after I get home from a hard day at work?

I understand that drugs in general pose a problem to society in many ways --- but are people like me really a problem?

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Reply to Playbus

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