AGP TO PCI-E 2.0 only 20fps? hd 4850

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nofx4021

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I just upgraded my Pc , i got a new motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H replaced my old MSI K9MM-V and i got a new Hd 4850 PCI-E and replaced my old x1650 AGP, So pretty much i get everything hooked up do a windows xp reinstall(not format) start up counter strike source run the video stress test only to be disappointed with a small 20fps increase. Before i was getting 110 fps now im getting 130 i know blah blah your eyes cant see past 60fps thats not the point tho, Question is should i see more of a fps increases from going agp to pci-e from a 50$ card to a 175$ card?


PC Specs

GA-MA78GM-S2H
AMD 4800+ AM2
2GB RAM PC6400 DDR2
500 GB SATA
ATI HD 4850


Settings screen shots: These were the settings my X1650 was running on, i haven't touched them after putting in the hd4500

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=settingsxk9.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=settings2zq2.jpg


Ps. I only have counter strike source and TF2(Sub 60fps), and i got the newest 8.8 drives i got them as soon as i installed the card so i havent tested old drivers

 
4745454b

4745454b

Titan
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Apr 29, 2006
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Are you sure they haven't been upgraded? Perhaps CS:S upgraded them automatically when you installed the new card. If AA has been applied, that would explain the difference. You need the 8.8 drivers for the 4850, though the 8.7 might work also. I wouldn't go any older then that, as the 4850 wasn't out at that point.

The only other thing I can think of is your PSU isn't good enough for the 4850. If that were the case however, you should get a "not enough power" message. It might be worth checking into however.
 
outlw6669

outlw6669

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Dec 4, 2006
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The answer is yes and no.
With a more powerful system and higher resolution you certainly would see a much bigger increase in performance.
Unfortunately, at your low 1024x768 resolution, your GPU is thoroughly CPU bottlenecked bye your 4800+.

At low resolutions, there is less work the GPU needs to do to render a screen.
As such, it can be rendered as fast as the CPU can pump data towards it.
If you could borrow a friends higher resolution monitor and compare your old system and new system side bye side, you would see that the higher resolution you play at, the better the 4850 will perform compared to your x1650.

I could recommend 3 things, in order of gaming impact, that you could do.

1) Get a higher resolution monitor and enjoy your gaming experience.
2) Turn up all in game eye candy, AF and AA as high as it will go with little/no impact on your frame rates.
3) Get a faster CPU and overclock it as far as you can.
 
outlw6669

outlw6669

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I would recommend a new monitor long before getting a new CPU.
Gaming at 1024x768 in this day and age :pfff:

Even with a new Intel CPU (much faster than their AMD counterparts and overclock faster to boot), you would still be limited bye your low resolution. If you are not going to upgrade your monitor, do not bother upgrading your CPU as it will be a waste of cash.
 
H

homerdog

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Yep, it's a CPU bottleneck. Increase the resolution and add some AA (minimum 8x) and AF (16x). Also tick vsync.

And don't complain about getting *only* 130FPS :p
 
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nofx4021

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not complaining about my fps complaining about the difference between an 3 year old card and a 2month old card, prior to knowing my monitor was the cause of the problem
 
outlw6669

outlw6669

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With monitors, I recommend getting the best you can afford.
Surly any new monitor will be a massive upgrade from what your are using now but a quality panel and bigger screen are, in my eyes, well worth the investment. I would suggest going to some of your local shops and looking, in person, at what they offer. Make sure to compare the displayed color range, brightness and visible angles among other things. For some research, I would sugest Anandtech's Display section and Prad.de's Monitor Review section. If you can afford it, try and locate a S-PVA monitor over the common TN ones.

As for the refresh rate issue, you are probably going to be stuck at 60hz with a newer display.
Due to bandwidth constraints on DVI connectors, 60hz is as fast as you can pump data to your screen at higher resolutions.
FYI, the refresh rate is as fast as your display is able to render a frame.
Even if you are pushing 130 FPS in game, if your monitor is only 75hz or 60hz on the refresh rate, you will only be displaying 75 or 60 FPS. Because of this, it is best to turn on vSync, syncing your frame rate with your refresh rate, to avoid any "tearing" of your screen.
 
-Fran-

-Fran-

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May 3, 2007
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Actually, he got the 4850 and i don't think he wants to change it again, so he'll be limited to 1600x1050 ish res. If the OP has CF, then he can get a second 4850 and get a bigger monitor IMO.

Esop!
 
-Fran-

-Fran-

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May 3, 2007
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Oh, this line: "With monitors, I recommend getting the best you can afford."

If he can get a 1900x1200 ish res monitor, his 4850 won't cope with it. That was my point :p

Esop!

EDIT: Spelling XD
 
outlw6669

outlw6669

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Ahhh, now I see what you were saying :D
Actually, the 4850 is quite capable of gaming at 1920x1200 although he would be CPU limited at that point.
With it's performance sitting between an 8800Ultra and GTX 260, it is no slouch.
Especially playing games like CS Source and TF2, it should have no problems keeping a decent framerate.
Just don't ask it to perform any magic with Crysis ;)
 
KyleSTL

KyleSTL

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HEY! I resent that. :kaola:
Some people like to rock on a Samsung 152N 15" LCD. Besides, I have a Hayworth 72"x24" pedestal desk with hutch that limits my monitor height to < 16" overall. My next purchase will be a 19-22" 1680x1050 monitor on a very short stand. I'm also mulling the option of a VESA mount directly to the backplate of the hutch, in that case the monitor would float 1-2" above the working surface.
 
skywalker9952

skywalker9952

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My recommendation: Go to New Egg -> monitors -> LCD monitors -> Power Search. Check the resolutions at 16**x**** and higher and browse away. The 1440x900 you posted is not going to be much of an upgrade over your 1024x768. (As far as separation in frame rates). The 4850s sweet spot is @ 1680x1050, but it is more then capable of playing at 1920x1200.

 
-Fran-

-Fran-

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May 3, 2007
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Actually, at higher res (1900x1200 ish) the CPU won't bottleneck the rig at all like on lower res (it will indeed, but not like omg-1FPS!, lol); the PCIe lanes will and/or the video card.

But in his case, the 780G he owns has a PCIe 2.0 16x lane and shouldn't have any problem going for a higher res, CPU-wise.

I'd say, on 1900x1200ish, to get a 4870/GTX260 since he has 1 PCIe x16 on his board. Lower than that, just a 4850/9800GTX is a nice upgrade.

Esop!
 
mactronix

mactronix

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Sep 17, 2006
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@ outlw6669, Im sorry but i love you :ange:

Let me explane and stop backing away like that :lol:

I have been trying to tell people on this forum for as long as i care to remember that resolution bottle necking is real. Its not like its a hard concept but they just dont get it, or dont want to.

I totally agree with you (obviously). :)

@ nofx4021,

As the guys said the monitor you linked to is near as makes no difference the same pixel wise as what you already have.

17" 1280 x 768 87.8 ppi 0.2893 mm 5:3 0.94 MP
17" 1280 x 1024 96.4 ppi 0.2634 mm 5:4 1.25 MP
17" 1440 x 900 99.9 ppi 0.2543 mm 16:10 1.24 MP

19" 1440 x 900 89.4 ppi 0.2842 mm 16:10 1.24 MP

I would recommend looking at something more 1680 x1050 which can be either 20 or 22" that would give the card a good work out without stretching it . next up would be a CPU upgrade.

Mactronix


 
M

megamanx00

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I think it's impressive you were getting 110 out of your X1650 AGP ^_^. Anyway I'd guess that you're CPU limited. Overclock your CPU and you should see an increase in FPS. Really though if you were going to go with a dedicated video card I would think it would have made more sense to go with a GIGABYTE GA-MA770-S3 or GIGABYTE GA-MA770-DS3, just my two cents. :eek:
 
harrycat88

harrycat88

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That MSI K9MM-V was good motherboard that you just threw away.

What you should have done was just drop an AMD X2 6000+ along with a 3850 Power Color AGP, set your Aperture size to 1GB and you would be seeing 190FPS in counter strike.
But hey, that's your money.
Maybe you need to visit my website 3850PCI-E vs. 3850 AGP
http://www.kyol.net/~harrycat/3850.html

 
T

Thorbaden

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I would go for the 22" Acer. 22" is huge. some people say the pixel pitch on a 22" is too big compared to 19/20" monitors with same res. but i honestly dont see much of a dif. (probably becuase i never had anything much different.

I have the Hanns-G 22" (or 21.6") with HDMI and built in speakers. never use the speakers but the HDMI i have my ps3 plugged into while the vga port my comp is plugged into.

I can force a 1080P res on this monitor with my PS3 even though it says max res is 1680x1050. only problem with hooking a ps3 up to a monitor is all teh resolutions it outputs are in 16x9 format vs 16x10 monitor
 
TheGreatGrapeApe

TheGreatGrapeApe

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No point in buying more stuff just to justify having bought more stuff.

Is the issue fps or justification?

Your fps went up for the resolution you game at which is a good thing.
Is either CSS or the resolution you run at good reflections of the increase in raw power of your graphics? NO!

However at this point either return the card or else play your game, because otherwise you're going to be chasing your tail upgrading this and that to get the most out of your latest upgrade.

When you feel comfortable either getting a higher res monitor or playing tougher games, then you'll benefit from the additional power, but likley won't appreciate it because you didn't play the X1650 that way, but overall you need to focus on the games you play, not the expectation of performance.

Sure you could probably spend $80-100 on an HD4670 and achieve the same results, but if you have to buy something anyways, the HD4850 makes you a little better prepared for the next step should you take it.
If all you're going to do is play CSS, then I'd say return it, and pick up a cheap HD4670 or GF9600, which would accomplish the same thing in PCIe form which giving you the benefit of DX10 over picking up a cheap X1950Pro.

And while some people disagree the the HD4850 is fine for a long while of gaming, either at your current resolution or even 1920x1200. Sure you might need to turn down a feature or two if you want to game at 1920x1200 anyways, but you'd probably have to do that on any single chip card anyways. The gulf between the HD4850 and other cards at that resollution is still primarily a statistical thing more than a hard limit, and you'd only get slight differences between it and more powerful cards.
 
N

nofx4021

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well the games i want to play are Crysis and i also would like to get prepared for upcoming stuff like

Call of Duty: World at War
Left 4 Dead
Bionic Commando
Grand Theft Auto IV
Starcraft 2


goal is to have pc that can run all these games just as good or better then there console counter parts.

 
skywalker9952

skywalker9952

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Dude you are on the right path. Gaming at 1024x768 is archaic so your current upgrade path is most definitely justified.

I too would recommend the ACER 22. But don't take mine and Thorbaden's word for it, Ars Technica also recommends the same monitor for their budget box for September of 08. http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200809.ars/2
Its about 2/3rds down the page under 'monitor'. High Res gaming is amazing and you will love your new huge monitor.
 
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