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State of the game imho

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August 31, 2004 8:46:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Ok first off this is a vent after months of being treated to the soe
shuffle. Its late and the spelling wont be perfect but a lot of
players have gotten to this point at the same time so here goes...

Spent some time on the SWG forums looking for some answers to a few
rather tough problems I was having in my game play and came to a few
realazations that stuck me rather hard. Almost every profession is
badly broken. I dont mean just a bit I mean class defining stuff
including jedis. Remember behind all of this is sonys complete lack of
credibility with those of us who have memorys of what has gone before.
Ok heres the 64 dollar question:

How could anyone so foul up such a great game concept as Star Wars?!!

The combat system is so broken that its not so much people wont pvp as
there is no reason or logic to the system. Now a revamp hangs over
everyones head where there is no telling the result. Ranged combat in
swg is possibly the worst Ive seen outside of EQ. No wonder most
players opt for melee based chars. Problem is the same people who gave
us the present system are doing the revamp. See a problem?

Now this the worst in my view, PvE content is lacking so badly those
of us who played EQ/DAOC/AO/etc still wonder what we missed cause its
gotta be there somewhere. right? Nope its not there. The mission
system is brutally boring that if you have done one you have done them
all. And this is post Anarchy Online which has a pretty fair one they
could have copied so to speak or even err the one in EQ perhaps. NPC
interaction is err well there really isnt much at all. Quests? Buggy
and very very few and not very important except to jedis.

Merchants are in a state of uproar due to some rather sever changes to
vendor inventory and having to not only attain merchant skills but
keep them to even have vendors. This gets complicated but check it out
its a real bear. Trade skilling is without a doubt just as boring as
it ever was in EQ. No bonuses here folks.

Interdependentcy of classes is so contrived and forced that it borders
on plain silly. Battle Fatigue was introduced to give the entertainers
some useful purpose, kind of the games charity class. This was to be a
social class for people who like to just talk and meet people. Well
fully half and prob more are just macro bots, not too social there is
it. Docs have much the same situation, only time I see one is when I
get buffed.

The Skill Point system is so rigid that to be able to do really useful
things like make good armor a char will spent 50-75% of availible
skill points just to do so. Just for Docs to be able to buff and heal
and manufacture (odd wouldnt that be a artisans job?) buff packs
requires hours and hours AND HOURS of mindless grinding on a crafting
station. Now with the changes to the vendors mentioned above the doc
has no way of selling what he/she has made. You see the bazaar is
useless as the prices of all items is capped at 6k. Not very much fun
there.

The GCW is a mess. Thats all I can say, too many issues to even list.

Few people group, the reason is unclear on this. Its not needed for
sure and if its bad or good you decide. But when you do group its more
of a soloing in the company of others type of experience. In fact the
most common group is the solo group, now theres a concept.

The game timeline is so fubar that it fits NO time period in the
books/movies. Jedi are so common Ive seen as many as 10 in one day
with glowy sticks out. To solve this problem sony is making it
possible for even more jedi to be created. huh?

While we are on jedis it was a terrible idea to introduce them as a
playable class. Its a god class with extreme time reqs to attain. Many
people have had to Master as many as 32 professions just to BEGIN the
road to glowiness. Not very starwarsy if ya catch my drift, Luke make
me 5000 daggers, learn to dance, and become a chef then we talk about
the force. Besides god classes are the worst move any game can make,
one which I thought the gaming gurus accepted as rule #1. The
resentment on both sides of the issue is a cancer to the community.
And of course its gonna get worse.

Now comes JtL, with things on the ground in a state of what I can only
call beta-testing, we move to outerspace with a whole new set of
problems that will take resources away from fixing whats already been
released a year ago. In fact combat revamp was posponed due to this
exact reason. Sony lead the swg community to believe this would no way
happen, well guess what it did. Now Im betting the combat fix never
really happens outside of some bandaides here and there.

There are entire Player cities, not towns but large cites, that are
deserted. The guilds making them having left the game. This is after
only the first year of the game. There are more empty vendors than
stocked ones another not so good sign. More importantly there is
little real excitment for the game we felt in EQ, daoc or many of the
others that have lasted. THe concept we love the game play is another
matter. This is not only a bad sign its a almost a death rattle. Now I
know the numbers SEEM to look ok but its a good bet that account
cancelations trail play time fall off by weeks or even months as
people are remiss to give up on what they worked so hard to get.

It doesnt stop there, take a look for yourselves its all there on the
forum. I was just too caught up in the idea of a SW game to realize
its an SoE game first, last, and always.

So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.

Guess the answer to my first question is .... give it to Sony.

More about : state game imho

August 31, 2004 11:59:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

well, on my server,some rl friends talked me into their guild. I'm like "ok,
this is cool, rl friends in ther same guild...cool", And the first e-mail i
get from the guild is somthing about the guild needing everyone to do a PvP
mission against the imps....i was like um..no way in hell, I'm a lowly 1111
novice WS and a master Marksman working on carboneer...i didnt sign up to do
PvP, i signed up to see how good I could get. Being in the guild is nice,
because I have resources falling outta my ass to grind with, but I'm looked
down apon for being aganst PvP..to me that is totally pointless and a waste
of time...'eh, my 2cents
OB/GYN For your pleasure
"Ringo" <Ringo@noon.com> wrote in message
news:p 1c8j0p7v3a9kplftv9ab9p4lrmsr4rjml@4ax.com...
> Ok first off this is a vent after months of being treated to the soe
> shuffle. Its late and the spelling wont be perfect but a lot of
> players have gotten to this point at the same time so here goes...
>
> Spent some time on the SWG forums looking for some answers to a few
> rather tough problems I was having in my game play and came to a few
> realazations that stuck me rather hard. Almost every profession is
> badly broken. I dont mean just a bit I mean class defining stuff
> including jedis. Remember behind all of this is sonys complete lack of
> credibility with those of us who have memorys of what has gone before.
> Ok heres the 64 dollar question:
>
> How could anyone so foul up such a great game concept as Star Wars?!!
>
> The combat system is so broken that its not so much people wont pvp as
> there is no reason or logic to the system. Now a revamp hangs over
> everyones head where there is no telling the result. Ranged combat in
> swg is possibly the worst Ive seen outside of EQ. No wonder most
> players opt for melee based chars. Problem is the same people who gave
> us the present system are doing the revamp. See a problem?
>
> Now this the worst in my view, PvE content is lacking so badly those
> of us who played EQ/DAOC/AO/etc still wonder what we missed cause its
> gotta be there somewhere. right? Nope its not there. The mission
> system is brutally boring that if you have done one you have done them
> all. And this is post Anarchy Online which has a pretty fair one they
> could have copied so to speak or even err the one in EQ perhaps. NPC
> interaction is err well there really isnt much at all. Quests? Buggy
> and very very few and not very important except to jedis.
>
> Merchants are in a state of uproar due to some rather sever changes to
> vendor inventory and having to not only attain merchant skills but
> keep them to even have vendors. This gets complicated but check it out
> its a real bear. Trade skilling is without a doubt just as boring as
> it ever was in EQ. No bonuses here folks.
>
> Interdependentcy of classes is so contrived and forced that it borders
> on plain silly. Battle Fatigue was introduced to give the entertainers
> some useful purpose, kind of the games charity class. This was to be a
> social class for people who like to just talk and meet people. Well
> fully half and prob more are just macro bots, not too social there is
> it. Docs have much the same situation, only time I see one is when I
> get buffed.
>
> The Skill Point system is so rigid that to be able to do really useful
> things like make good armor a char will spent 50-75% of availible
> skill points just to do so. Just for Docs to be able to buff and heal
> and manufacture (odd wouldnt that be a artisans job?) buff packs
> requires hours and hours AND HOURS of mindless grinding on a crafting
> station. Now with the changes to the vendors mentioned above the doc
> has no way of selling what he/she has made. You see the bazaar is
> useless as the prices of all items is capped at 6k. Not very much fun
> there.
>
> The GCW is a mess. Thats all I can say, too many issues to even list.
>
> Few people group, the reason is unclear on this. Its not needed for
> sure and if its bad or good you decide. But when you do group its more
> of a soloing in the company of others type of experience. In fact the
> most common group is the solo group, now theres a concept.
>
> The game timeline is so fubar that it fits NO time period in the
> books/movies. Jedi are so common Ive seen as many as 10 in one day
> with glowy sticks out. To solve this problem sony is making it
> possible for even more jedi to be created. huh?
>
> While we are on jedis it was a terrible idea to introduce them as a
> playable class. Its a god class with extreme time reqs to attain. Many
> people have had to Master as many as 32 professions just to BEGIN the
> road to glowiness. Not very starwarsy if ya catch my drift, Luke make
> me 5000 daggers, learn to dance, and become a chef then we talk about
> the force. Besides god classes are the worst move any game can make,
> one which I thought the gaming gurus accepted as rule #1. The
> resentment on both sides of the issue is a cancer to the community.
> And of course its gonna get worse.
>
> Now comes JtL, with things on the ground in a state of what I can only
> call beta-testing, we move to outerspace with a whole new set of
> problems that will take resources away from fixing whats already been
> released a year ago. In fact combat revamp was posponed due to this
> exact reason. Sony lead the swg community to believe this would no way
> happen, well guess what it did. Now Im betting the combat fix never
> really happens outside of some bandaides here and there.
>
> There are entire Player cities, not towns but large cites, that are
> deserted. The guilds making them having left the game. This is after
> only the first year of the game. There are more empty vendors than
> stocked ones another not so good sign. More importantly there is
> little real excitment for the game we felt in EQ, daoc or many of the
> others that have lasted. THe concept we love the game play is another
> matter. This is not only a bad sign its a almost a death rattle. Now I
> know the numbers SEEM to look ok but its a good bet that account
> cancelations trail play time fall off by weeks or even months as
> people are remiss to give up on what they worked so hard to get.
>
> It doesnt stop there, take a look for yourselves its all there on the
> forum. I was just too caught up in the idea of a SW game to realize
> its an SoE game first, last, and always.
>
> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>
> Guess the answer to my first question is .... give it to Sony.
August 31, 2004 4:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Wow....
>
>
>Is this your first post here?
>
>I understand your frustration. If I was using a service that was as
>bad as you stated.... I would quit without hesitation. So why don't
>you??
>

Copied from my original post :
So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.

Heres your sign.....
Related resources
August 31, 2004 5:00:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:40:23 +0200, "Frank B." <palin@cityweb.de>
wrote:

>snip
>I mean whats the matter with leveling anyway if you master all skills
>in 3 Days. Just choose: "I wanna be master Bounty Hunter" and pay
>200 credits. That would be much easier.
>
>Just my 2-3 cents,
>
>Frank
>
I was informed that from the begining one method of becoming a jedi
was going to be required to Master a ton of random profs so Mastering
had to be something you could grind out quickly. Thus the holocron
grind was born and the rest of us were left wondering why this is so
easy. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm doesnt it. Hope that answers your
question.
September 1, 2004 12:04:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:59:24 -0400, "Doc" <frdjdoc@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>
>
>well, on my server,some rl friends talked me into their guild. I'm like "ok,
>this is cool, rl friends in ther same guild...cool", And the first e-mail i
>get from the guild is somthing about the guild needing everyone to do a PvP
>mission against the imps....i was like um..no way in hell, I'm a lowly 1111
>novice WS and a master Marksman working on carboneer...i didnt sign up to do
>PvP, i signed up to see how good I could get. Being in the guild is nice,
>because I have resources falling outta my ass to grind with, but I'm looked
>down apon for being aganst PvP..to me that is totally pointless and a waste
>of time...'eh, my 2cents
>OB/GYN For your pleasure
>"Ringo" <Ringo@noon.com> wrote in message
>news:p 1c8j0p7v3a9kplftv9ab9p4lrmsr4rjml@4ax.com...
>snip

I contend its the system that ruins pvp and would expand on this if
any interested otherwise will leave it at that. There is a reason for
forced pvp from soe's view. Its cheaper to run. Pve content is
expensive, the players provide the pvp content for almost nothing. See
the pattern?
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:50:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:00:19 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:40:23 +0200, "Frank B." <palin@cityweb.de>
>wrote:
>
>>snip
>>I mean whats the matter with leveling anyway if you master all skills
>>in 3 Days. Just choose: "I wanna be master Bounty Hunter" and pay
>>200 credits. That would be much easier.
>>
>>Just my 2-3 cents,
>>
>>Frank
>>
>I was informed that from the begining one method of becoming a jedi
>was going to be required to Master a ton of random profs so Mastering
>had to be something you could grind out quickly. Thus the holocron
>grind was born and the rest of us were left wondering why this is so
>easy. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm doesnt it. Hope that answers your
>question.

Actually if you had followed most of the press releases and most of
the pre-release publicity and almost every statement that was ever
issued about the Jedi profession.... It was always stated they they
were intended to be VERY Rare and the path to them was intended to be
VERY difficult.

Now, I know that pressure from the paying public is always taken into
consideration... but having listened to the chatter in a number of
forums/chats/news groups since about the week after release (I started
the game in the third week) the hue and cry for instant and easy
access to a jedi slot has been deafening. Not quite as deafening as
the squeels and moans and cries that have arisen from the PvP crowd
but very nearly as loud.

So, If you think the Jedi is too easy... then blame the Developers for
caveing into the pressure of lost subscriptions.... but wait..... The
developers only do what they are told.... Here comes that nast olf "P"
word again. PROFIT. That's what spoke to the masters of the game and
they directed the lowely Developers to Dumb it down some. Funny isn't
it... how much in this country gets dumbed down.

Anyway. As the developers got used to caveing in to the demands of the
PvPers... it was only natural that they would cave into the demands of
the jedi wannabes.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:55:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:51:29 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>><SNIP>
>>
>>Wow....
>>
>>
>>Is this your first post here?
>>
>>I understand your frustration. If I was using a service that was as
>>bad as you stated.... I would quit without hesitation. So why don't
>>you??
>>
>
>Copied from my original post :
> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>
>Heres your sign.....

How rude of you.

To impose your judgement on others that might not have tried the game
for themselves.

Not very nice. You might have caused somebody that would have had a
perfectly enjoyable time from actually trying something at all.

And just because you didn;t find it fun. Does this mean that you
expect us all to up and leave the game and follow you? I am sorry, but
I make up my own mind. I welcome your voicing your opinion... but
judging us all by saying "Here is your sign" is not only immature but
downright rude and crule. How would you like it if we all laid our
judgements on you in that manner?

No, my friend, if anybody earned a sign in this thread, it was you bu
showing us all how narrow minded you really are.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:59:24 -0400, "Doc" <frdjdoc@adelphia.net>
wrote:

>
>
>well, on my server,some rl friends talked me into their guild. I'm like "ok,
>this is cool, rl friends in ther same guild...cool", And the first e-mail i
>get from the guild is somthing about the guild needing everyone to do a PvP
>mission against the imps....i was like um..no way in hell, I'm a lowly 1111
>novice WS and a master Marksman working on carboneer...i didnt sign up to do
>PvP, i signed up to see how good I could get. Being in the guild is nice,
>because I have resources falling outta my ass to grind with, but I'm looked
>down apon for being aganst PvP..to me that is totally pointless and a waste
>of time...'eh, my 2cents
>OB/GYN For your pleasure
<SNIP>

What? Somebody ELSE who doesn't PvP??

Be very careful here DOC.... We could start a "Revolution".

At very least a "Movement". To be a "Revolution" I think we would need
at least three more people!
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:33:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Ringo" <Ringo@noon.com> wrote in message
news:kfe9j0lmi2gr78fq87fjul3gmdt31bl3c3@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

> Copied from my original post :
> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>
> Heres your sign.....

I'm not sure if you can blame the state of the game on 'SOE' as a whole.
There are a lot of factors in this game that won't affect other games
made by SOE.

Other SOE games won't have:
1) The same Dev team (thank God).
2) The pressure from LucasArts (thank God)
3) The same management team (same upper management but not closer to
the action where it matters)
4) Direct input from that waste of skin known as Raph Koster
5) Any reps from LucasArts (namely Blackman) to dick up the
relationship with the players
6) A team that is completely and totally clueless in the genre the
game is being developed in (I still maintain that the only experience
this group of monkeys had was with fantasy games, hence all the melee,
monsters, armor, swords, and a damn magic ring as a quest reward).

I'm sure there are more that I could come up with, but I've pretty much
given up on the game. The Devs did everything possible to screw the
game and fanbase over. I'm not even interested in JTL... if I want a
FPS, I'd pick one of the bazillion out there that don't charge a monthly
fee.

- Oalan
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:44:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

> I was informed that from the begining one method of becoming a jedi
> was going to be required to Master a ton of random profs so Mastering
> had to be something you could grind out quickly. Thus the holocron
> grind was born and the rest of us were left wondering why this is so
> easy. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm doesnt it. Hope that answers your
> question.

Thats not an answer to any question but another totally stupid point in
Star Wars Galaxies. Klicking ok for 15 Days 10 Hours a day just to master
all crafting professions including Image Designer etc. Because you want
to be a jedi is far from being fun. No wonder 90% of the grinding people
used programs to grind for them. I have heared: "I will not reply to chats
in the next few days because i am afk-grinding the artisan professions"
much too often.
Thats really much fun. To be closer to Jedi by not-playing for some days
and instead letting macros or programs grind the levels for you.
Yea you could say: "if its boring or if you wanna play grind it for
yourself." But if you ever grinded Armorsmith,Weaponsmith, Chef,Droid
Engineer, Doctor, Artisan, Architect and so on all of these professions
are totally macroed (and thats even legal on offical servers which is
the biggest joke).
Even afk camping and looting monsters is allowed.
Look at Woolamander Harrower for example. One of the few Monsters that
drops something. On my server they were macro-killed and looted.
Some guy with 3 accounts (1 to play 2 to kill woolamander)
Killed _all_ woolamanders. How? Easy! They have an exact spawntime and
spawnlocation. Oh and they are of course that easy to kill that one
shot with flamethrower kills em. Being faster than a computer and selecting
em faster? Impossible.
I don't know what server you are on but this guy had _all_ woolamander
harrower bone fragments at the time i played. What is the fun with that?
To go back to your posting: i don't think they increased levelspeed so
hologrinding would be easier. As they told how to become a jedi just
_after_ the first jedi were born.
And my main question was not: "Why am i so fast with leveling"
So if i afk grind for 12 hours or 14 or even 24 hours that doesn't make
much of a diffrence even if i had to afk grind for 4 days. Or click ok
for 4 days.
Oh btw if someone is reading this who didn't play before: people who for
example become Image Designer have macro change of (for example)
eyebrow color to black. 500 Times a Minute. And all the other player does
is press accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-
accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept.
Not for 10 Minutes or 20 Minutes but for many hours. At least its a
fun profession and i admit being Master Image Designer (which i Mastered
as well as i played) is kinda funny for 6-7 hours.
So... back to topic: my question never was: "why do we level that fast?"
it was: "Is there _anything_ you can do in SWG you cannot do with icq?"
September 1, 2004 1:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:44:17 +0200, "Frank B." <palin@cityweb.de>
wrote:

>> I was informed that from the begining one method of becoming a jedi
>> was going to be required to Master a ton of random profs so Mastering
>> had to be something you could grind out quickly. Thus the holocron
>> grind was born and the rest of us were left wondering why this is so
>> easy. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm doesnt it. Hope that answers your
>> question.
>
>Thats not an answer to any question but another totally stupid point in
>Star Wars Galaxies. Klicking ok for 15 Days 10 Hours a day just to master
>all crafting professions including Image Designer etc. Because you want
>to be a jedi is far from being fun. No wonder 90% of the grinding people
>used programs to grind for them. I have heared: "I will not reply to chats
>in the next few days because i am afk-grinding the artisan professions"
>much too often.
>Thats really much fun. To be closer to Jedi by not-playing for some days
>and instead letting macros or programs grind the levels for you.
>Yea you could say: "if its boring or if you wanna play grind it for
>yourself." But if you ever grinded Armorsmith,Weaponsmith, Chef,Droid
>Engineer, Doctor, Artisan, Architect and so on all of these professions
>are totally macroed (and thats even legal on offical servers which is
>the biggest joke).
>Even afk camping and looting monsters is allowed.
>Look at Woolamander Harrower for example. One of the few Monsters that
>drops something. On my server they were macro-killed and looted.
>Some guy with 3 accounts (1 to play 2 to kill woolamander)
>Killed _all_ woolamanders. How? Easy! They have an exact spawntime and
>spawnlocation. Oh and they are of course that easy to kill that one
>shot with flamethrower kills em. Being faster than a computer and selecting
>em faster? Impossible.
>I don't know what server you are on but this guy had _all_ woolamander
>harrower bone fragments at the time i played. What is the fun with that?
>To go back to your posting: i don't think they increased levelspeed so
>hologrinding would be easier. As they told how to become a jedi just
>_after_ the first jedi were born.
>And my main question was not: "Why am i so fast with leveling"
>So if i afk grind for 12 hours or 14 or even 24 hours that doesn't make
>much of a diffrence even if i had to afk grind for 4 days. Or click ok
>for 4 days.
>Oh btw if someone is reading this who didn't play before: people who for
>example become Image Designer have macro change of (for example)
>eyebrow color to black. 500 Times a Minute. And all the other player does
>is press accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-
>accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept-accept.
>Not for 10 Minutes or 20 Minutes but for many hours. At least its a
>fun profession and i admit being Master Image Designer (which i Mastered
>as well as i played) is kinda funny for 6-7 hours.
>So... back to topic: my question never was: "why do we level that fast?"
>it was: "Is there _anything_ you can do in SWG you cannot do with icq?"
>
Dont get me wrong I never said it was a good thing only that here is
the reasoning behind the current system. As I attempted to point out
the jedi class was a horrid mistake and is responcible for much of
what is wrong with the game. I agree with you on much of your post,
though perhaps Im not as angry this time having gone though it before
with EQ.
September 1, 2004 3:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:55:12 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:51:29 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>><SNIP>
>>>
>>>Wow....
>>>
>>>
>>>Is this your first post here?
>>>
>>>I understand your frustration. If I was using a service that was as
>>>bad as you stated.... I would quit without hesitation. So why don't
>>>you??
>>>
>>
>>Copied from my original post :
>> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
>> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
>> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
>> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>>
>>Heres your sign.....
>
>How rude of you.
>
>To impose your judgement on others that might not have tried the game
>for themselves.
>
>Not very nice. You might have caused somebody that would have had a
>perfectly enjoyable time from actually trying something at all.
>
>And just because you didn;t find it fun. Does this mean that you
>expect us all to up and leave the game and follow you? I am sorry, but
>I make up my own mind. I welcome your voicing your opinion... but
>judging us all by saying "Here is your sign" is not only immature but
>downright rude and crule. How would you like it if we all laid our
>judgements on you in that manner?
>
>No, my friend, if anybody earned a sign in this thread, it was you bu
>showing us all how narrow minded you really are.

Ok my last responce to you is this;
I gave you a sign for not reading the post and the knee jerk tone of
your words. I pointed out things that really do exist in the game,
there is of course no way to refute what is displayed in the forums.
These things you will never see on that bright new shinny box from SoE
in the store. I cant even post it on the forums, tryed it was deleted
so freaking fast its spooky. All I did was give a sampling across the
board of what a new player has to look forward to in swg it is up to
them to either believe or not what I have written. I did not rant or
screem or post childish remarks. I simply stated the truth about swg's
game system. Since you have offered nothing concrete concerning the
gameplay of swg it is assumed you have nothing to offer. Please do
tell them what it is you like about the game other than its "Star
Wars". Simply haveing fun doesnt really do it for those of us that
know better.

Therefore imho you do most assuredly deserve a sign. As for being rude
it could have been a lot worse, I have no patience for company men
paid or otherwise and as a consumer have every right to express an
opinion on a product it was you that made things personal here bubba.
I have been on usenet for over ten years and you can be assured if I
had wanted to tear you apart and be "rude" I am perfectly capable if
not willing to do so. Haveing said my piece I leave the last remarks
to you since I may well be in your house, so have fun.
September 1, 2004 3:25:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:50:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:00:19 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:40:23 +0200, "Frank B." <palin@cityweb.de>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>snip
>>>I mean whats the matter with leveling anyway if you master all skills
>>>in 3 Days. Just choose: "I wanna be master Bounty Hunter" and pay
>>>200 credits. That would be much easier.
>>>
>>>Just my 2-3 cents,
>>>
>>>Frank
>>>
>>I was informed that from the begining one method of becoming a jedi
>>was going to be required to Master a ton of random profs so Mastering
>>had to be something you could grind out quickly. Thus the holocron
>>grind was born and the rest of us were left wondering why this is so
>>easy. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm doesnt it. Hope that answers your
>>question.
>
>Actually if you had followed most of the press releases and most of
>the pre-release publicity and almost every statement that was ever
>issued about the Jedi profession.... It was always stated they they
>were intended to be VERY Rare and the path to them was intended to be
>VERY difficult.
>
>Now, I know that pressure from the paying public is always taken into
>consideration... but having listened to the chatter in a number of
>forums/chats/news groups since about the week after release (I started
>the game in the third week) the hue and cry for instant and easy
>access to a jedi slot has been deafening. Not quite as deafening as
>the squeels and moans and cries that have arisen from the PvP crowd
>but very nearly as loud.
>
>So, If you think the Jedi is too easy... then blame the Developers for
>caveing into the pressure of lost subscriptions.... but wait..... The
>developers only do what they are told.... Here comes that nast olf "P"
>word again. PROFIT. That's what spoke to the masters of the game and
>they directed the lowely Developers to Dumb it down some. Funny isn't
>it... how much in this country gets dumbed down.
>
>Anyway. As the developers got used to caveing in to the demands of the
>PvPers... it was only natural that they would cave into the demands of
>the jedi wannabes.
>
You make a few leaps of logic here in responding to what I said.
Jedi isnt difficult as it is measured in real world terms. You WILL
get it if you just do the required grinding there is no maybe here.
The problem is that all players have to deal with a system in place to
allow jedi to grind out 32 proffessions in less than a couple of
months easily. There theres gonna be ton of jedis out there much to my
aggrivation. Now I dont know what this hard on over pvp is since swg
is sold as having large pvp componet. They have attempted to please
everyone and in doing so left all unfulfilled. The Pve combat system
is fine one or two mobs withstanding so Im not sure what has you
upset. It is only in pvp when everything depends on the mind poison,
mindhit or eyeshot that things go badly wrong. In all my pvp battles I
have never died for any other reason than mind incap. Since only a few
professions have the "uber" mind attacks it gets mundane.

The system is broken and easily fixed so why is it still in place?
Dont know that one. Were I in charge mind would be almost untouchable
barring some wierd jedi attack "force annoy" of something like that
and since there would be no jedi class only npcs the mix of profs
viable in pvp would increase and doctors would again have a job beyond
buff bunnys. Oh well aint gonna happen is it.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:32:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

> The problem is that all players have to deal with a system in place to
> allow jedi to grind out 32 proffessions in less than a couple of
> months easily.

That's a thing i cannot accept.
Grinding all professions can be easy if one log many hours a day every day.
Thus player is supposed to be a person with nothing to do in his rf but play
SWG.
I don't think so, many players over 30 they have a regular job and they play
(if they are not to tired from an hard day work) a couple of time a day and
not every day.
And that's the way i play, and enjoy, this game.
And, i assure u, i can't be as fast as u in grinding profs (i am doing the
endless Investigation 4 and it requires weeks to be completed playing 2
hours a day).
So if improvements of character were more difficult many people like me
should give up.
I think there should be a balance between my needs and urs (or the needs of
anyone wants to be a more difficult game) because anyone has the same rights
to enjoy it ( or else they should write down on the game box: FOR FREQUENT
PLAYERS ONLY).

Since i write from Italy, pease be good with my bad english :-)

Behodwo Berpopled
Flurry Galaxy
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:05:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Oalan wrote:

> "Ringo" <Ringo@noon.com> wrote in message
> news:kfe9j0lmi2gr78fq87fjul3gmdt31bl3c3@4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>Copied from my original post :
>> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
>> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
>> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
>> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>>
>>Heres your sign.....
>
>
> I'm not sure if you can blame the state of the game on 'SOE' as a whole.
> There are a lot of factors in this game that won't affect other games
> made by SOE.
>
> Other SOE games won't have:
> 1) The same Dev team (thank God).
> 2) The pressure from LucasArts (thank God)
> 3) The same management team (same upper management but not closer to
> the action where it matters)
> 4) Direct input from that waste of skin known as Raph Koster
> 5) Any reps from LucasArts (namely Blackman) to dick up the
> relationship with the players
> 6) A team that is completely and totally clueless in the genre the
> game is being developed in (I still maintain that the only experience
> this group of monkeys had was with fantasy games, hence all the melee,
> monsters, armor, swords, and a damn magic ring as a quest reward).
>
> I'm sure there are more that I could come up with, but I've pretty much
> given up on the game. The Devs did everything possible to screw the
> game and fanbase over. I'm not even interested in JTL... if I want a
> FPS, I'd pick one of the bazillion out there that don't charge a monthly
> fee.
>
> - Oalan
>
>

1. That's a laugh. Already, some of the top team have already moved onto
new Sony projects.
2. When you are spending a million a month in development costs, you
WILL get pressure.
3. The management team has been shifting to new games.
4-6. Can't comment.

I came into the game with an open mind and a willingness to play. I
think the game is brilliant in many ways, but ultimately falls down in
being so static. They did not put much time into increasing the depth of
the game, or its breadth past November. It's been revision after revision.

CH

CH
September 1, 2004 5:46:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

ya, i understand that one..i just dont see the point in PvP..its like i'm
going weaponsmith to make some cash, and i'll do reb missions if i wanna
kill some imps...
And the "movement"? I need to take one now, btw..lol

--
I dont kill people, I make the weapons that kill people..=)
Doc
<Skinner1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:no7aj09tkbemd938vui3es1futcgsslnm1@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:59:24 -0400, "Doc" <frdjdoc@adelphia.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>well, on my server,some rl friends talked me into their guild. I'm like
>>"ok,
>>this is cool, rl friends in ther same guild...cool", And the first e-mail
>>i
>>get from the guild is somthing about the guild needing everyone to do a
>>PvP
>>mission against the imps....i was like um..no way in hell, I'm a lowly
>>1111
>>novice WS and a master Marksman working on carboneer...i didnt sign up to
>>do
>>PvP, i signed up to see how good I could get. Being in the guild is nice,
>>because I have resources falling outta my ass to grind with, but I'm
>>looked
>>down apon for being aganst PvP..to me that is totally pointless and a
>>waste
>>of time...'eh, my 2cents
>>OB/GYN For your pleasure
> <SNIP>
>
> What? Somebody ELSE who doesn't PvP??
>
> Be very careful here DOC.... We could start a "Revolution".
>
> At very least a "Movement". To be a "Revolution" I think we would need
> at least three more people!
>
>
>
September 1, 2004 6:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

humph....this is the first mmorpg i've played, and i love it..I'm not a star
wars freak, like some of the others seem to be (no offece to the term) I am
a gamer..Have been since Quake 2..Ya, SWG has its problems, but if you like
the game:
1. you learn to deal with 'em
2. write letters to the devs
3. whine about it here, and turn people off, that doesnt do anything about
the problems
4. Stop playing
5. All of the above
I myself have posted here, to send my msc. thoughts, ideas, what have
you..but no matter what, yesterday I preordered my copy of JTL from EB
games, and am looking forward to dusting off my joystick for the
FUN!!..Thats all that matters
--
Never underestimate the power
of a stupid person on an ATV
DJ Doc
OB/GYN For your pleasure
"Ringo" <Ringo@noon.com> wrote in message
news:9ngaj0d6hubfd5g8qln9dq4ke5npslksev@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:55:12 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:51:29 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:39:05 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>><SNIP>
>>>>
>>>>Wow....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is this your first post here?
>>>>
>>>>I understand your frustration. If I was using a service that was as
>>>>bad as you stated.... I would quit without hesitation. So why don't
>>>>you??
>>>>
>>>
>>>Copied from my original post :
>>> So I had enough, canceled my accounts and wrote this but oh well
>>> shoulda known better in the first place I guess. I hope some of you
>>> will think twice before getting involved with soe on any game now and
>>> in the future, they dont deserve my money at least.
>>>
>>>Heres your sign.....
>>
>>How rude of you.
>>
>>To impose your judgement on others that might not have tried the game
>>for themselves.
>>
>>Not very nice. You might have caused somebody that would have had a
>>perfectly enjoyable time from actually trying something at all.
>>
>>And just because you didn;t find it fun. Does this mean that you
>>expect us all to up and leave the game and follow you? I am sorry, but
>>I make up my own mind. I welcome your voicing your opinion... but
>>judging us all by saying "Here is your sign" is not only immature but
>>downright rude and crule. How would you like it if we all laid our
>>judgements on you in that manner?
>>
>>No, my friend, if anybody earned a sign in this thread, it was you bu
>>showing us all how narrow minded you really are.
>
> Ok my last responce to you is this;
> I gave you a sign for not reading the post and the knee jerk tone of
> your words. I pointed out things that really do exist in the game,
> there is of course no way to refute what is displayed in the forums.
> These things you will never see on that bright new shinny box from SoE
> in the store. I cant even post it on the forums, tryed it was deleted
> so freaking fast its spooky. All I did was give a sampling across the
> board of what a new player has to look forward to in swg it is up to
> them to either believe or not what I have written. I did not rant or
> screem or post childish remarks. I simply stated the truth about swg's
> game system. Since you have offered nothing concrete concerning the
> gameplay of swg it is assumed you have nothing to offer. Please do
> tell them what it is you like about the game other than its "Star
> Wars". Simply haveing fun doesnt really do it for those of us that
> know better.
>
> Therefore imho you do most assuredly deserve a sign. As for being rude
> it could have been a lot worse, I have no patience for company men
> paid or otherwise and as a consumer have every right to express an
> opinion on a product it was you that made things personal here bubba.
> I have been on usenet for over ten years and you can be assured if I
> had wanted to tear you apart and be "rude" I am perfectly capable if
> not willing to do so. Haveing said my piece I leave the last remarks
> to you since I may well be in your house, so have fun.
September 1, 2004 9:54:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:04:23 -0400, "Doc" <frdjdoc@adelphia.net> wrote:

>humph....this is the first mmorpg i've played, and i love it..I'm not a star
>wars freak, like some of the others seem to be (no offece to the term) I am
>a gamer..Have been since Quake 2..Ya, SWG has its problems, but if you like
>the game:
>1. you learn to deal with 'em
>2. write letters to the devs
>3. whine about it here, and turn people off, that doesnt do anything about
>the problems
>4. Stop playing
>5. All of the above
>I myself have posted here, to send my msc. thoughts, ideas, what have
>you..but no matter what, yesterday I preordered my copy of JTL from EB
>games, and am looking forward to dusting off my joystick for the
>FUN!!..Thats all that matters

Well doc for one sony does not monitor these groups although im sure
some empolyees stick thier nose in regularly I doubt any are in a Dev
position. Here you only address a small group of players and potential
players.To address sony use the forums but if they dont like what you
say they have no problem deleting the post. Yes they allow critics but
only in a very narrow band.

To like a game for me at least means my imagination is being stirred.
Swg, like many of the newer movies, forgot to have a plot that grabs
the audience depending on special effects for the WOW factor. I am no
star wars "freak" either considering I have liked none of the the
recent movies ESB being the last to hit what I thought was the
potential of the series. The books for the most part are badly written
with weak plots after all this isnt Dune or the Foundation Series,
however I do like the concept and it was indeed fun for about 4 weeks.
The concept is so great and so American in its presentation who caould
have a problem with the great stuggle against great odds for freedom?
Thats where things seemed to quickly fade, the promices of fixes were
pushed aside in deference to the big bucks of a new expansion which
BTW I hope you have looked at seriously cause its pretty much just Pvp
in space and it will be dominated by 12 year olds with high end
systems and connections not to mention those lightning reflexes of
youth. Given the lack of pve content so far, and I am using EQ as a
benchmark along with SoEs past performance, I cant recomend someone
that doesnt like pvp to purchase JtL. Also I cant recomend it to those
that DO like Pvp since the systems in place so far are horrid.

Basicaly I just fired SoE as my entertainment provider is all and have
done what I can to warn off others from buying the game . You on the
other are having fun and encourage them to try it, thats cool. Wont
make any difference to Sonys bottom line and things will go pretty
much like us old timers (who have seen this before btw) are saying.
SWG will last 2 or more years with the Star Wars theme drawing new
poeple constantly but it is NOT a good game and it will not hold
gamers that require a high standard for long periods of time. In EQ
(Verants not soes) average playtime was about 6 months { In my case 2
years }, AO holds people about 4 months. SWG so far I would put at
about 2-3 months before they drop out. I really think this is due to
pve content more than any other reason. Not everyone mind you, no
accounting for taste, but on average I would say I was being generous
sony since Ive seen many leave after a couple of weeks saying this
game has a huge dead-end.

Good luck and I hope you do continue to enjoy the game and I do hope
Im wrong since I hate being right lol. I do enjoy discussing this as I
have a lots of time till I find a better more imaginative addiction.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:34:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

>
> Well they havent learned anything so far so wouldnt expect them to
> now. Its NOT the team its the company. Somethings broken over there
> and so far havent figered that one out. As I look around WOW is in
> real trouble right now as Blizzard seems to be coming un-glued. AO
> almost killed itself with Shadowlands but a new release is pending for
> salvation, UO is still around somewhat, DAOC is just not apealing but
> the market is not exactly flooded with new games atm. This says
> something went very wrong with this industry an it may have beeen
> sonys buying of verant.
>
> Point is why hasnt anyone at least tired to design and run a game well
> since the early days of EQ? That one amazes me since if ya keep us
> happy you can pull money out us for years on end, that is nothing to
> sneeze at even for those greedy bastards.
>>
>>- Oalan
>>
It's funny, but I think the biggest problem is that they think they can pull
money out of us. I'm sorry, but I'm not playing the game any more because
its not worth my money to play it. I loved the concept, even thought
implementation was pretty good. I just didn't like the idea of having to
play the damn thing with a bunch of 12 year old kids running around causing
havok. The truth is I wanted to make myself a place in the nice little
world, set up a business, and keep to myself. Unfortunatly, the community
and sony made that impossible.

It's really too bad that once again they have created something that will
only appeal to about 5% of the population out there instead of making
something normal people could enjoy playing also.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 7:51:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On 2004-08-31, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:
> How could anyone so foul up such a great game concept as Star Wars?!!

Is it a great game concept? In general, I think it might be a bad idea
to set an MMORPG in a setting from existing movies or books.

The problem is that the movies are focused on a small group of heroic
figures (or anti-heroes) who are instrumental in world-changing (or
galaxy-changing) events.

It is those characters and those events that are the attraction of the
movies, not the setting that they are in. The setting is cool, and can be
an important part of the overal charm of the movie, but it is the characters
and events that are the most important.

An MMORPG basically gives you the setting, not the characters and events.

It will be interesting to see how the Middle Earth MMORPG does.

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:15:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On 2004-09-01, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 2. When you are spending a million a month in development costs, you WILL
> get pressure.

A million a month seems high. Are there any official published figures as
to SWG development costs?

For comparision, DAoC was $2.5 million over the entire 18 months of
development (taken from the post mortem written by Mythic at Gamasutra).

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
September 8, 2004 3:43:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Just wanted to add some new points for discussion, as this thread seems to
be degenerating into a "tastes great, less filling" discussion of PvP.

1. I've succumbed to the lure of hedonistic wealth and prestige by starting
the Village quests. Personally, I LIKE the new Jedi system, at least as
compared to the hologrind. Having to spend weeks on unlocking each part
ensures that only people who are dedicated to becoming Jedi will spend the
time/effort to become one.

2. I DON'T like that so many Jedis already exist. It states EMPHATICALLY in
the manual that this game is set between Eps IV - V...and only Vader, the
Emperor, and Luke are supposed to be even Force-sensitive. I would far
rather see a couple servers set aside exclusively for Jedi and/or PvP.

3. Of COURSE JTL is going to be about PvP...it's essentially a customizable
FPS, judging by the screenshots and clips released so far. So What? I
happen to think it's going to be fun to jump in an X-Wing, go blast a couple
of guys in space until I inevitably get ganked by a GOON hit squad (those of
you on Lowca know what I'm talking about :) , then land or crash and go beat
up on a couple of NPC stormtroopers to remove my frustrations.

I'll save my annoyances with multiple tells asking me if I'm buffing when
all I really want to do is go hang out with my buds and rez their sorry
butts in the Geo cave for a later post.

--
Maryk Tormass, TKM/Doc, Lowca

Uromi Biverje, Master Musician/Dancer/ID-in-training, Valcyn
September 8, 2004 3:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

ya, i'm saving my PvP untill JTL comes out...I'm experenced in fighting
multiplayer flightsims, I just hope I'll be able to use my complete Ch
flight setup with JTL (somthing is telling me its not gonna be like Falcon
4.0..mmmmmmmm)

--
Never underestimate the power
of a stupid person on an ATV
DJ Doc
OB/GYN For your pleasure
"The other Mike" <mtl?ink@earthl?ink.net> wrote in message
news:bfC%c.10911$Vl5.5582@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Just wanted to add some new points for discussion, as this thread seems to
> be degenerating into a "tastes great, less filling" discussion of PvP.
>
> 1. I've succumbed to the lure of hedonistic wealth and prestige by
> starting
> the Village quests. Personally, I LIKE the new Jedi system, at least as
> compared to the hologrind. Having to spend weeks on unlocking each part
> ensures that only people who are dedicated to becoming Jedi will spend the
> time/effort to become one.
>
> 2. I DON'T like that so many Jedis already exist. It states EMPHATICALLY
> in
> the manual that this game is set between Eps IV - V...and only Vader, the
> Emperor, and Luke are supposed to be even Force-sensitive. I would far
> rather see a couple servers set aside exclusively for Jedi and/or PvP.
>
> 3. Of COURSE JTL is going to be about PvP...it's essentially a
> customizable
> FPS, judging by the screenshots and clips released so far. So What? I
> happen to think it's going to be fun to jump in an X-Wing, go blast a
> couple
> of guys in space until I inevitably get ganked by a GOON hit squad (those
> of
> you on Lowca know what I'm talking about :) , then land or crash and go
> beat
> up on a couple of NPC stormtroopers to remove my frustrations.
>
> I'll save my annoyances with multiple tells asking me if I'm buffing when
> all I really want to do is go hang out with my buds and rez their sorry
> butts in the Geo cave for a later post.
>
> --
> Maryk Tormass, TKM/Doc, Lowca
>
> Uromi Biverje, Master Musician/Dancer/ID-in-training, Valcyn
>
>
!