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Diskeeper 2009 with SSD

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  • Flash Media
  • SSD
  • Defragment
  • Hard Drives
  • Storage
Last response: in Storage
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a b G Storage
January 15, 2010 7:53:05 PM

Hi, i used to use Diskeeper 2009 to defragment my hard drive in my old system. However now that i have a new pc with an SSD And an HDD i want to use diskeeper to do its automatic defragmentation on my HDD. Here is where my question/concern comes in. I don't want any utility or defragger touching my SSD at all. I want diskeeper to perform the automatic defragmention and all the extra stuff on my HDD but not the SSD, yes you can easily disable them all so they don't do anything to my HDD but i am still wondering does diskeeper do what it says it does and will not touch my ssd if i disable everything for the SSD or will it still do some kind of crap in the background. Google doesn't say anything about this, everytime i search it gives me hyperfast which i dont have and dont use so any help would be great. BTW here is a screenshot of what the settings are on right now:




^I just want to make sure that background process diskeeperservice.exe or anything is touching the SSD, drive C is the SSD, D is the storage HDD, and the system reserved is a windows thing which is also on my SSD. Please tell me if there is another processes, service, or setting i must check or change to make sure that just my hard drive is getting these functions and my SSD is not even being touched at all by anything from this program.

BTW diskeeper is installed on the SSD. But as you read i dont want it touching it with any crap like i-faast, frag shield, auto defrag...etc

Thanks for any help.

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a c 128 G Storage
January 15, 2010 8:00:14 PM

Utility Software does what its told. Yoiu don't schedule anything, it's not supposed to do anything.
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a b G Storage
January 15, 2010 10:29:47 PM

KK thanks, just that diskeeper is a great software and i'd hate to be forced not to use it if it was messing with my SSD.
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a b G Storage
January 16, 2010 7:52:54 PM

Ave an ice day!!
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a b G Storage
January 16, 2010 8:21:45 PM

Mikey5802
Quote:
Most manufacturers recommend that you NOT defrag an SSD, it can reduce the lifetime of the SSD. Depending on what type you have (SLC or MLC) the cells have a limited amount of writes available, unlike regular HDD's. SLC drives have more than MLC.


^Oh really?...never would have known, its not like i made a huge post ranting about how to install diskeeper on an ssd so it wouldn't touch it but rather defrag my hDD....why don't you read the actual post, not the title :( 
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January 16, 2010 11:36:39 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
Mikey5802
Quote:
Most manufacturers recommend that you NOT defrag an SSD, it can reduce the lifetime of the SSD. Depending on what type you have (SLC or MLC) the cells have a limited amount of writes available, unlike regular HDD's. SLC drives have more than MLC.


^Oh really?...never would have known, its not like i made a huge post ranting about how to install diskeeper on an ssd so it wouldn't touch it but rather defrag my hDD....why don't you read the actual post, not the title :( 


Yes but in your rant post you never mentioned why. He made it clear the logic why a new ssd owner would not want defragging done to his drive.
Auslogics free defragger has a option to ignore and hide ssd drives so no accidental defragging is done. Whether it be by a helpful scheduler manager with predefined profiles or whatever the case may be. Defragging could never be considered a negative until ssd's came along.
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a b G Storage
January 17, 2010 3:30:52 AM

^
Quote:
I don't want any utility or defragger touching my SSD at all. I want diskeeper to perform the automatic defragmention and all the extra stuff on my HDD but not the SSD,


Does it get any clearer then that?...
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a b G Storage
January 17, 2010 11:33:11 AM

Does Diskeeper 2009 have the Hyperfast component? It's quite ok to run that on the SSD, but not a standard defrag which gets file fragments and consolidates them (unnecessary). As for the original question, simply disabling the scheduled defrag on the SSD should fix that problem, assuming you can.
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a b G Storage
January 17, 2010 2:24:05 PM

^Yes i can, and thanks for clarifying. I actually checked and my diskeeper doesn't have the hyperfast thing i am pretty sure, but the box has a nice green slip advertising it. A few questions on hyperfast:
-What does it do to SSD's please tell me in detail on the smallest level of what it actually does to files/filesystem...etc

-Does hyperfast come as a separate application or a is it a part of diskeeper?

-I have Diskeeper 2009 Professional and i can't find it here...

-Does hyperfast noticeably increase performance/life of SSD's enough to be worthwhile to research and purchase?
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 12:23:26 AM

1) If you've ever heard of Garbage Collection (GC), Hyperfast basically performs one aspect of that function - consolidation. Perfect Disk 10 can also do this.

When data is written to the SSD, it is not written sequentially. The controller writes in a somewhat randomly for wear levelling purposes. Often when you write data you don't fill up entire blocks of NAND (simply because the block is larger than the amount of data to be written). The controller will not go back and fill up that block unless necessary because that would require it to erase the block first, which takes too long. Instead, it will write to a free block if one is available. Eventually these run out and the controller must erase partially written blocks and then fill them up again, causing slowdown. TRIM offsets this problem by pre-erasing blocks when you delete data, but if you only ever write/overwrite data, there's only one or two other ways to free up blocks automatically which happen less often.

I can not tell you exactly what Hyperfast does because it's a proprietary program ;)  But as as best I can, I'll give it a go. What Hyperfast does is take data in partially written blocks, have the controller erase another partially written block and then fill it up completely. The first block now contains data that is not needed and can be erased to free up that block completely. So essentially what you are doing is consolidating free space. You are not taking bits of the same file and consolidating them, as the low response time of an SSD negates any benefit of this. You are simply consolidating any data so that it takes up as few blocks as possible.

Once complete, ideally you would then go and force an erase of all free space to ensure that the blocks are fresh when you next write to them. More info here.

2) I have no idea, I've only used Perfect Disk 10
3) Well.... I guess that answers the previous question :p  Maybe email Diskeeper?
4) It works best when performance is already bad. It's good particularly if there's no TRIM. It also reduces life a little because of the extra erases needed to consolidate data. But unless you do it 3 times a day it won't do much to the drive. It's more a monthly task. Is it really necessary? No.

I hope this made sense, I spent too long writing it and probably lost my train of thought multiple times :lol: 
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 1:20:07 AM

^Thanks, that actually gives me a better idea of it is, my intel ssd already has trim working and its doing great as a matter of fact. However consolidating free space on an SSD increases performance?...does it increase writes, reads, access times? Trim seems to take care of most the issue but if hyperfast really makes a difference, it might be worthwhile for me to look into, because i've used other diskeeper products and all of them have been no less then excellent.

-Thanks for the help so far
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 1:38:04 AM

It will increase performance to around 80-90% that of a fresh drive, so it's good if you get serious loss of speed or as general maintenance. It really depends if you notice any actual slowdown outside of benchmark numbers. My drive looks faster after consolidation and subsequent wiping of free space (using AS-Clean from the link in my previous post) according to benchmarks, but it doesn't feel any faster. It seems to have a greater impact on sequential reads/writes than random, and access time isn't really affected.
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:09:21 AM

i checked diskeeper website, it seems you can only buy hyperfast with diskeeper, you can't buy it seperatly :(  I'll try a trialware version of Diskeeper Pro-Premier with Hyperfast and see how it goes, if its good then i might purchase. Which is better though the diskeepr hyperfast or perfect disk?
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:10:58 AM

I've only used Perfect Disk so I don't know what Hyperfast is like.
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:14:41 AM

well i just got the trialware and optimizing my SSD right now, i'll see how it is after its done.
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:25:02 AM

I just read that you can consolidate free space with the built-in Windows defragger via the command line. I'm not sure how good it is but at least it's free.

defrag C: /X

That in a command prompt will do the job.
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:53:55 AM

i just did a hyperfast optimization in diskeeper on my ssd then ran the intel ssd toolbox and i have no performance gain so far...neither in benchmarks or any thing
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 2:55:05 AM

^From what i see, if you already have trim/ssd toolbox, you are set, and hyperfast is good when you have an ssd like the G1 series or another brand that doens't have trim or anything like that, am i right?
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 3:12:11 AM

That's pretty much how it is. Although sometimes TRIM doesn't work as it should thanks to Windows 7's shoddy implementation but in your case it must be :)  I think the SSD toolbox has some sort of Garbage Collection anyway doesn't it?
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a b G Storage
January 18, 2010 3:58:54 AM

I have no clue about the garbage collection, i got my SSD, put it into AHCI, installed the latest firmware 02HD, installed windows 7, updated it, installed toolbox 1.2 and my ssd is already about 1.5months old and working as fast as the day i bought it.
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