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Insane CPU temp during 3dMark Vantage

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October 28, 2009 4:16:06 AM

Hi. First of all this is my computer;

Mother board: Asus P6T Deluxe V2
Processor: Core i7 920 at 2.67 GHz
Memory: Corsair Dominator 6GB (3x2GB) 1600MHz
Video Card: EVGA NVidia GeForce GTX 285 1GB Superclocked Edition, that's 2 cards in SLi.
Power Supply Unit: Antec 1000w True Power Quattro
Case: Antec 1200 ATX Full Tower
Operative System: Windows Vista Enterprice, Service Pack 2, 64bit.
Monitor: ASUS VW266H 25.5-Inch Widescreen LCD Monitor, working on 1920 x 1200

I got 3dMark Vantage to see what score could I get with all the default settings, since i don't know squat about overclocking
While iddle, my normal temp for the CPU stays between 36c-40c.
While gamming, it goes from 56c-60c.
When I ran 3dMark Vatage (it was the trial version, so it was running on P), and the test made it to the CPU test #2, the CPU temp reached an alarming 83c.
Lucky for me, PC Probe II cought that, stopped the benchmark and shut down the pc.

When I restared the pc, it quickly went down to 42c iddle.
I was scared.

Anyway, can you guys tell me if this high cpu temp is normal during this test?
Thanks for any help provided and sorry if this is the wrong place to make this question.
a b à CPUs
October 28, 2009 5:21:00 AM

you don't want your cpu to go over 67.9 C (and it shouldn't come close at stock speed); are you using the stock fan/heatsink? How is your case's airflow? You may want to try reseating your heatsink/fan, or upgrading to an aftermarket cooler. Depending on your case fan config, you could add some fans to increase airflow.
October 28, 2009 1:55:13 PM

Alright... Let's see.

Yes, my cpu heatsink/fan is the one that came with the chip. So i guess that should be upgrade number one for me, right? That cpu fan speed usually sits around 1300 rpm while iddle, and i think around 2200 under load.

As to the case, the six fans it has are the ones build into it. The 3 on the front are blowing air into the case, I have these set to max (sorry i don't have a rpm, but i don't know where to look for it for these fans). The two rear fans and the one on the top are extracting air, these are set to medium (they just have 3 sets: low, mid, high)

That's it.

I don't know how relevant it is, but my 2 graphic cards have the fans set to 75%. The default set is 40%. I heard 60% was enough, but I wanted to give it an extra something.

Whould this be enough, or am I falling short in cooling?

Thanks again.
Related resources
a b à CPUs
October 28, 2009 2:19:22 PM

Your case cooling sounds fine, so its probably something wrong with your heatsink/fan; as I said before, you could try reseating it (cleaning off the old thermalpaste first, then remount following the instructions below-the instructions are good for all thermalpastes, not just arctic silver 5), but you probably will want to upgrade to an aftermarket cooler.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.htm...
October 28, 2009 2:40:19 PM

Sounds good.
Any personal suggestion as to what termal paste / cooler to get?
a b à CPUs
October 28, 2009 2:47:26 PM

For heatsink/fan, this would be sufficient-$35
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Depending on how much you want to spend and/or OC, this would be a little better-$55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

As for thermalpaste; if you're upgrading, the thermalpaste that comes with the heatsink/fan should be fine, but if you want to reseat it, it really doesn't matter if you go for arctic silver 5, arctic alumina, or some generic brand; just make sure you get thermal paste or thermal grease, not ceramique (it's not so easy to get off if you screw up, or upgrade).
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
October 29, 2009 6:21:40 AM

pepperman said:
you don't want your cpu to go over 67.9 C
pepperman,

Although your terminology is correct, are you sure that you have a clear understanding of Intel's Thermal Specifications? Even though you might, I flagged your statement because it's likely that Uziel, as well as others who may be reading this thread, might not understand the difference between CPU temperature and Core temperature. Just so everyone is clear, here's what you need to know:

Temperatures and overclocking are all about specifications, so it's very important to be specific. If we're not, then the topic makes about as much sense as comparing apples-to-oranges thermal fruit salad in a blender! :pt1cable:  My objective is to assure that enthusiasts understand Intel's specifications, standards and test methods, so they can better decide how to apply and manage their overclocking options.

From Intel's Processor Spec Finder - http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ParentRadio=...

All Core i7 9xx variants:

Vcore Max 1.375v
Tcase Max (CPU temperature) 68c
Tjunction (Core temperature) 73c

From the Core i7 and Core 2 Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-sticky-core...


"Section 1: Introduction

Core i and Core 2 processors have 2 different types of temperature sensors; a CPU case (not computer case) Thermal Diode centered under the Cores, and Digital Thermal Sensors located on each Core. The case Thermal Diode measures Tcase (Temperature case), which is CPU temperature, and the Digital Thermal Sensors measure Tjunction (Temperature junction), which is Core temperature. Since these sensors measure 2 distinct thermal levels, there is a 5c temperature difference between them, which is Tcase to Tjunction Gradient. Core i7’s / i5’s and Core 2 Quad’s have 1 Tcase and 4 Tjunction sensors, while Core 2 Duo's have 1 Tcase and 2 Tjunction sensors ...

... The monitoring utilities provided by motherboard manufacturers monitor CPU temperature, while some popular freeware utilities monitor Core temperatures ... Real Temp ... is recommended for users interested in monitoring Core temperatures only ... SpeedFan monitors Tcase (CPU temperature) and Tjunction (Core temperature) ... "


The Thermal Specification shown in Intel's Processor Spec Finder is Tcase Max (CPU) not Tjunction (Core), which is a very common misconception among most enthusiasts. Since there's a 5c gradient between the CPU sensor and the Core sensors, (shown in the following Intel document) - http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf - just add 5c to the value shown in the Spec Finder to determine the corresponding Core temperature, which is 73c for all Core i7 9xx variants.

Intel's second and frequently misunderstood Thermal Specification, Tjunction Max, (100c for all Core i7 9xx variants) applies to overtemp protection such as Throttle and Shutdown, so you don't toast your transistors. As such, any i7 9xx Core temperatures which exceed 73c should be considered "overtemp". Further, when specifications are exceeded, then processor degradation becomes a concern, which is explained in the following AnandTech article - http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3...

Prime95 Small FFT's is the Standard for processor thermal testing, because it's a steady-state 100% workload which yields steady-state temperatures, whereas Blend is a memory cyclic workload which yields fluctuating processor temperatures. Small FFT's will reach 97% thermal saturation within 7 to 8 minutes, so a 10 minute test is adequate. Thermal testing should be conducted as close as possible to 22c (72f) Standard ambient, with case covers removed, the computer clear of any desk enclosures, and all fans at 100% RPM to eliminate cooling variables, and to produce consistent and repeatable results for comparisons. If the Gradient between CPU temperature and "mean" (average) Core temperature is not ~ 5c, then BIOS is incorrectly coded. CPU temperature and Core temperatures can be individually calibrated in SpeedFan by following the Calibrations Section in the Temperature Guide.

OCCT and Burn Test (reminiscent of TAT) use LinPack, which shows thermal signatures that resemble the ups and downs of a bad day on the stock market, and cycle between light workloads, through test segments which spray all processor registers with all one's, (100% thermal load = 115% workload), and can push an overclocked i7 9xx with HT enabled at Vcore Max 1.375, right on past Tcase Max to ring the Tjunction Max bell like a fire alarm! :o 

Since there are very few applications or games that will spike, let alone sustain processor workloads beyond 70% to 85%, utilities which load all registers with all one's are not representative of real-world computing. While these utilities are certainly very useful for stability testing, they are inappropriate for thermal testing. The 3DMark benches are excellent for stability testing, as are applications for ripping and encoding.

To make sense of CPU temperature and Core temperature, compare them to a 4 cylinder car with 5 temperature guages; 4 of the guages are cyclinder head temperatures (closest to the heat source), and the 5th guage is the overall engine temperature, which is 5c lower than the other guages, and is the temperature guage with which we're all familiar. We know the red zone (hot) for the i7 9xx starts at 68c (Tcase Max) on the engine temp guage and 73c (Tjunction) on the cylinder head temp guages, but if we push the engine too hard and peg all the guages, (95c Tcase overtemp / 100c Tjunction Max) then the engine will shut down.

If you'd like to learn more about processor temperatures, then just click on the link in my signature.

Hope this helps,

Comp :sol: 
a b à CPUs
October 29, 2009 3:32:15 PM

I was actually going by the cpu temp, as that is what Uziel provided. Either way, though, he still has an overheating chip, and I still recommend he try reseating his heatsink/fan and/or upgrade to an aftermarket cooler.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
October 29, 2009 11:32:03 PM

I couldn't agree more ... Uziel seriously needs a high-end air cooler, however, PC Probe is often inaccurate due to mis-coded BIOS, so just to be on the safe side, I strongly advise that he runs Real Temp to check the Core temperatures.
October 30, 2009 5:27:57 AM

Alright. Thanks a lot for all the info and the help.

Here is a little update.

Today, my copy of Windows 7 finally arrived. I'm still doing a lot of drivers and software installation since some of the driver disks seem to only work in windows XP or Vista.

Most of the essential is already installed.
I just noticed that PC Probe is now telling me that the idle temp of the CPU is at 42c, it used to be 36-38, sometimes 40 in windows Vista. Is that normal?



So, following advice, i just installed Real Temp (here is the initial reading:



the temps and the distances to TJ Max keep going back and forth 1 point.

And also, GPU-Z. Looks like this at iddle:



I'm gonna keep installing stuff, trying to leave it where it should be.

As soon as I can install a heavy game like.... Crysis (heaviest I have at the moment), I'll let you guys know about changes in those readings.

I already ordered the Arctic Silver 5 from amazon. Now I have to look for the heatsink/fan. I can't buy from newegg cause I live outside the US, so I gotta look for something good at amazon. Any suggestions from there?

Thanks again, and I'll keep you guys posted.

P.S.
My knowledge level is on a basic level. I don't even dare to say medium cause I'm actually very impressed with the quality of the help I can get from this site.
So bear with me a little, pleeeeeease?

:D 
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
October 30, 2009 7:35:08 AM

As I suspected, PC Probe II is indicating ~ 3c too high. Close, but no cigar. :sol: 
October 30, 2009 6:08:20 PM

Alright.

I just ordered the Scythe Mugen-2 and the Arctic Silver 5.
Let's hope these two fix any issue I may have.
Again, thanks for all the help provided.

I got the prime95 Pepperman suggested. How do you guys recomend me to procede from here? A 24 hour test or something else/

Gracias!
a b à CPUs
October 31, 2009 3:40:07 AM

We already know your cpu is overheating, so running it now won't do any good, but after you install the new heatsink/fan, run a 24 hour test of small fft's and monitor it for at least the first 15 min to make sure the cpu doesn't go over 68 C.
October 31, 2009 2:01:33 PM

Noted :sol: 

Well, so far, the computer has been performing very steady.

It seems that the heat event only happened during the 3D Mark Vantage cpu test 2. I won't run that program again until I receive the fan and the paste.

Alrighty, thank you very much for the help.

I will post again if anything out of the order happens, or when I install the piece.
Whatever happens first :kaola: 

Have fun!

:hello: 
October 31, 2009 3:39:39 PM

Something I forgot to ask.

How ofter are you supposed to check the thermal paste?
a b à CPUs
October 31, 2009 10:56:16 PM

Just run prime95 for 24 hours and monitor temps every now and then to make sure they're under 68 C. If they are, you should be good, and you shouldn't have to redo the thermal paste unless you're upgrading. If the temp goes over 68, try reseating the heatsink/fan, and test again.
You will want to clean the computer of dust on a regular basis, however, and how often depends on the level of dust buildup your computer receives. I have cats and dogs so this accelerates the build up, and I clean my pc with vacuum and can of air every three months or so (I'm kind of obsessive about though). If you don't have any animals and your build up is low, you could get away with once a year.
!