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Warning - be careful ordering DELL machines with SSDs

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January 20, 2010 9:32:18 AM

Make sure that before you lay down your hard earned cash you insist that DELL guarantee you will get a drive with TRIM support, and do not accept any sales talk that you can upgrade the firmware.

Those of us with earlier machines appear to have been totally left out in the cold, as shown in the following thread:

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19310219.aspx?Pag...

Despite the fact that Samsung have issued updated firmware, and most manufacturers have made it available to their customers, DELL are making no commitment to do the same.

Anyone reading these pages will know just how important TRIM is to SSD users, and for a major manufacturer like DELL not to make it a priority is shockingly poor.
January 20, 2010 10:25:56 AM

I'm just confirming what is said here.

SSDs without TRIM support become extremly slow when all the cells are used.
When I say slow, it's slower than any other regular HDD (even the worst !)

Deleting files and making space does NOT solve the problem (because of the lack of the TRIM support)

SAMSUNG released a firmware update and sent it to DELL in early december.
DELL is refusing to give any information while other manufacturers have done their jobs!

Public awareness seems to be our only way to get an answer from DELL...
January 22, 2010 7:14:03 AM

The below is a cross post from DELL forums - the DELL admins have started to censor the original thread, from which you can draw your own conclusions:

In desperation, I thought I'd join others here who have attempted to get Samsung to help DELL adjust their attitude on this.

Quote:
DELL leaves Samsung users in the cold with no TRIM support

I know the standard Samsung response to this is "contact DELL", but I really believe it is in Samsungs interest to lobby DELL to issue updated firmware with TRIM support as other manufacturers have.

Its making many DELL customers unhappy, and that bad press and unhappiness is likely to also be attached to Samsung.

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19310219.aspx?Pag...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/254961-14-warning-c...

Please convince DELL to act before this escalates into a very bad PR story for DELL and Samsung.

I got the following response today:

Quote:
Hello Rob Walker ,
Thank you for your inquiry to Samsung Semiconductor.

We do fully understand your point and we thank you for communicating your feeling so openly.
Our strategy needs to be adjusted and we definitely want to take some action.

Unfortunately, so far, the SSD delivered to DELL has a customized FW and DELL is reluctant to change it. We probably started to discuss this, but it won´t change over night.

We do sincerely apologize for this.

If you have any further questions, please send us more question again or visit our Homepage(http://www.samsungsemi.com).

Sincerely,
Semiconductor Business
Samsung Electronics Co,.Ltd.

Whilst there is no stated date or commitment in the reply - there is at least some recognition of the problem, and it sounds like possibly some discussion with DELL.

FWIW - my reply to this was as follows:

Quote:
Thanks for your response.

I fully understand your explanation and position on this, I have also read similar comments from Samsung elsewhere.

The fact remains though that regardless of the fact we bought these machines from DELL, they have Samsung components in them too. Whilst our main complaint is against DELL, it also reflects poorly on Samsung too that such a major purchaser and reseller of their components is allowed to treat their end customers so badly.

As a company we have purchased DELL machines for more than 15 years - but this issue will make us reconsider that. Whilst that may not affect Samsung in terms of direct purchases from us, it will mean unhappy customers who may purchase machines that contain different components.

I would urge Samsung to lobby DELL as hard as possible to resolve this and limit any further damage done to the DELL brand, and any collateral damage done to Samsung's reputation as a result.

As an aside, I am actually at something of a loss what possible benefit DELL get from customizing your firmware - it just seems to create problems like this, and what benefit does anyone get from it? Certainly not us as users, and certainly not Samsung - maybe DELL should also review their practices and decide whether customizing firmware is really not just an obstacle to their customers.

Regards

-- Rob Walker
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January 22, 2010 11:19:49 AM

I've had this kinda problem with DELL "custom" FW before in an old Turtle Beach II sound card...

Their "upgraded" FW for me simply meant that I could no longer use the manufacturers generic driver for this sound card on what was at the time a Win95 machine.

Come a later upgrade to Win 98 and the old DELL driver no longer worked. A BIG search later revealed no DELL 98 driver for this card and the generic 98 driver was not accepted by DELL's "upgraded custom FW"

DELL told me they would not be releasing a new driver for it :fou: 

All = one useless sound card :pfff: 

Our company bought many 100's of DELL's too... didn't look good for them.

DELL don't bother updating their own drivers very often either as is obviously a Lot of work.

Stupid company!!!
January 27, 2010 1:47:03 PM

walkerr 01-22-2010 at 10:57:58 AM

There's an online petition here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/dellssd/petition.html

Sign it and help us lobby DELL



good find walkerr! or did you set that up yourself?

i signed it. now we just need every dell user with an SSD lacking trim to get on board with this petition
January 27, 2010 4:19:25 PM

The idea came from one of the other frustrated users - I just got the ball rolling. Now we're trying to either find someone in DELL who will act on it, or some journals that will publicise it so that the bad PR gets some action from DELL. Anything you can think of or any contacts you know who may be able to help gladly received!
February 4, 2010 8:00:54 PM

It really "gets my goat" so to speak, when it takes publicising to get a company off it's arse to actually change anything.

Dell, of course, has been customising, proprietising (if that's a word) and even hot-gluing their components inside their PCs for years now. I suspect it helps sales, because if a piece of the PC becomes redundant it's impossible to replace so people go back and get a whole new PC instead.

As a single consumer, it's easy to avoid Dell - just build your own - but if you're after large batches of identical PCs on the cheap, without wasting time building them, there are far fewer options. Dell has capitalised on this and tailored their (not-quite) extortion / racketeering around this fact.

Not that all Dell products (or even any of them) are bad, it's just that some of their practices have been less than satisfactory in my experience.
February 5, 2010 6:51:06 PM

I can't even install Windows 7 on my Intel 40gb SSD (Dell mini 10) very annoying.
February 12, 2010 11:18:42 AM

DELL's latest official response to a customer wanting a drive or firmware with TRIM was priceless:

Quote:
... as long as your computer is starting, there is no problem for us. You know your computer is slow only because of your computer knowledge, if we give it to somebody else, they won't notice, so there is no problem ...


(original post in the forums linked above)

Whilst every other manufacturer not only understands the importance of TRIM - DELL seems to even want to deny it's existence!
February 14, 2010 12:22:05 AM

This is probably a stupid question, but for companies what's the problem with the other ones like HP? It seems like dell is the most completely reviled one there is out of all the major ones.

I haven't personally ever bought an OEM computer and have only built them myself. But I ended up with someones a810n HP machine, sold most of the stuff on the inside, used the case, and it was all completely standard. It was actually not that terrible of a case for a secondary computer.
February 14, 2010 3:15:17 AM

Its sort of like how some companies like to create irregular screw holes/slots/etc in their computers so you HAVE to buy replacement/upgrade parts from them.

You need to buy dell parts if you have a dell computer. Thats their goal.
a c 126 G Storage
February 14, 2010 4:48:58 AM

Petter-S said:
I can't even install Windows 7 on my Intel 40gb SSD (Dell mini 10) very annoying.

Why can't you? You mean 40GB is not enough for Windows 7?

I got a 30GB SSD with Windows 7 + WoW (16GB) game on it. Runs fine. :) 
February 14, 2010 6:13:21 AM

if i knew something like this was possible i wouldnt have spent the extra 300 on ssd from dell. what a crappy response!
a c 126 G Storage
February 14, 2010 6:20:22 AM

boles said:
if i knew something like this was possible i wouldnt have spent the extra 300 on ssd from dell. what a crappy response!

Then why didn't you buy an SSD yourself? Its not like "any random SSD" is the same as an Intel SSD for example. There are HUGE differences. Any review can tell you that.

If i buy a house and get an option to buy a car for some 10.000 extra, i wouldnt do that; i wanna buy my own car; with the options and design that i like.
March 10, 2010 8:50:30 AM

Got a priceless, delayed, and infuriating response from DELL on this topic:


Quote:

Dear Mr Walker, I am writing on behalf of Dell Computers in response to your e-mail to Michael Dell regarding your online petition regarding a Samsung Product - Samsung SSD Drives.


I have presented your query to our Engineering Team and they have provided the following information which I hope will answer your query / concerns.


Explanation on this SSD issue is below


Brief:

- If client bought system with old SSD, old SSD can’t support Trim in Win 7 OS environment even upgrade the Firm Ware (FW). But it doesn’t impact client using old SSD +Win7. May expect slow speed.

- If client bought system with current SSD, the FW had been upgraded.



· What drives support TRIM?

o Some of the SSD drives support TRIM, It depends on Rev#, as below Matrix shows. It can be segregated from Agile by PPID Rev#.



· What OS versions support TRIM?

o All versions of Windows 7


So ... DELL know the sold top price SSDs without TRIM, and think it's ok just to tell customers they will get slower?

I knew DELL had got worse over the years, but this really shows how low they have sunk.



March 10, 2010 3:34:28 PM

If you can configure and order your laptop, never 'upgrade' the RAM or HDD in the order. Always get the min. allowed and upgrade it yourself. Those components are the easiest to upgrade so save some money on your laptop purchase and configure the min. that is given. You can then buy a stick of 2GB RAM (if the min. for RAM is 4GB, well, then that part is already done) if the min. is 1 stick of 2GB RAM.

Get the min. HDD and put in a SSD when you're ready to pay for it. That way, you can choose whichever one you want and you can make sure that TRIM is there etc. etc.
March 12, 2010 1:45:31 PM

I never buy dells new theyre too propreitary ro upgrade this is just another example of that
!