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Overkill or Future-Proof

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September 23, 2008 7:39:03 AM

Hey guys and girls,

I’ve just signed up, scrolled through the forums and noticed this is a less biased or jealous on hardware.

So here’s my question,

I’ve got myself a 27” 720p/1080i screen so the highest resolution is 1360x768 or something between those lines.
For computer screen standards that’s not a whole big resolution but it looks nice enough, anyways this Saturday I’m going to buy a new rig; before I had;

7600GT
1 gb of ddr2 memory
Cheap Motherboard (think it might’ve been an AGP)
And a AMD 64 3500+

From that I’m going to a

Intel Q6600 (Quad-Core)
4870x2
X48 Motherboard (Abit)
4gb 1333MHZ DDR3 RAM.

Now it doesn’t take a genius to notice this is a massive upgrade, 2D to 3D almost.
But is this setup pure overkill for the resolution I’m playing I know that I don’t have to worry that any game has frame-rate problems, but for the time being overkill or future-proof?

More about : overkill future proof

September 23, 2008 7:50:22 AM

It's definately overkill for that resolution, but that's not a bad thing if you have the money to spare. Should you ever decide to buy a new monitor you can be sure that machine will be able to handle it, and until then you'll be able to play everything at max settings with full AA/AF.

As for future proof, well that's relative. There's a lot of interesting technology just over the hill (Intel's Larrabee, ATI's Fusion chips to name a couple), but there always is. And even though those things are set for a 2009 release we probably won't see games take full advantage of them until 2010/2011. I think you made a good choice waiting for the 4870X2, the new line of 4900's will be a die-shrink of the 4800's using less power, generating less heat and giving about 20-30% more performance, but I don't think it's worth waiting for.
September 23, 2008 7:54:01 AM

good choice for your CPU and GPU...

but you don't need a X48 board to run a Q6600, save yourself some money,a regular P35 would do.

drop the DDR3 ram also, you don't need DDR3 for this generation, only with the i7 that is coming out next year will DDR3 shine with the tri channel ram.

DDR2 has good pricings and you'll save more money there instead of wasting it on DDR3 with no performance benefits.
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a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 7:54:10 AM

I would say that a 4870x2 at a 720p resolution would be a bit of overkill.
Perhaps switch to a standard 4870 or 4850 and save your self a little $$ for a 1080p display.
With a x48 Mb, you can add a second in CrossFire at any time if you need the extra power.

With DX11 not to far off, it is kinda hard to call any current GPU future proof beyond the next year or so.
Although, I am sure a 4870x2 will give you enough performance at your resolution for quite a while...
September 23, 2008 8:05:02 AM

copasetic said:
It's definately overkill for that resolution, but that's not a bad thing if you have the money to spare. Should you ever decide to buy a new monitor you can be sure that machine will be able to handle it, and until then you'll be able to play everything at max settings with full AA/AF.

As for future proof, well that's relative. There's a lot of interesting technology just over the hill (Intel's Larrabee, ATI's Fusion chips to name a couple), but there always is. And even though those things are set for a 2009 release we probably won't see games take full advantage of them until 2010/2011. I think you made a good choice waiting for the 4870X2, the new line of 4900's will be a die-shrink of the 4800's using less power, generating less heat and giving about 20-30% more performance, but I don't think it's worth waiting for.


Thank you for the comment, this is the first non-biased comment I heard for the last 2 days.
Future proof wouldn't be the actuall term indeed, more like a grey safe-zone for awhile.

aznguy0028 said:
good choice for your CPU and GPU...

but you don't need a X48 board to run a Q6600, save yourself some money,a regular P35 would do.

drop the DDR3 ram also, you don't need DDR3 for this generation, only with the i7 that is coming out next year will DDR3 shine with the tri channel ram.

DDR2 has good pricings and you'll save more money there instead of wasting it on DDR3 with no performance benefits.


I live in Holland and generally the Hardware here isn't all that expensive this X48 board was as (epensive/cheap) as a P35 board, I noticed that the P35 didn't have DDR3 memory.
The X48 did, in generall when I made the final calculation I had to pay 50 euro's more for the X48 board and DDR3 memory than I would with DDR2 and the P35.
So I'd gladly pay 50 Euro's more for something that'll give me a boost in the future than stock up and save money now that'll likely spend later in the future to upgrade anyways since the technology is going to be actually used.

I've been saving up for a long long long time now, and I always had the cheapest possible low-rang - mid-range stuff.
So this time around I either want to play square or think two steps ahead.

outlw6669 said:
I would say that a 4870x2 at a 720p resolution would be a bit of overkill.
Perhaps switch to a standard 4870 or 4850 and save your self a little $$ for a 1080p display.
With a x48 Mb, you can add a second in CrossFire at any time if you need the extra power.

With DX11 not to far off, it is kinda hard to call any current GPU future proof beyond the next year or so.
Although, I am sure a 4870x2 will give you enough performance at your resolution for quite a while...


Yes, I thought of that aswell only 2 4870's or 100 euro's more expensive than a HD4870x2 from the get-go. since I'm a performance whore, I'd rather pay it now, with the money in hand, than be stuck in the future wishing "If-ever".

a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 8:46:59 AM

Everythings good, but Id still drop the DDR3
September 23, 2008 9:21:22 AM

According to your last comment Ironsight, seem like you have made up ur mind before posting this topic.

Our opinion doesnt really matter, does it?
September 23, 2008 10:00:57 AM

magicbullet said:
According to your last comment Ironsight, seem like you have made up ur mind before posting this topic.

Our opinion doesnt really matter, does it?


It does if it wouldn't I wouldn't spend time posting it on this forum, but as much as I ask your opinion I think I'm entitled to express my opinion on the matter aswell and argument why I made this choice and if for that reason this is pure overkill, than I could always revise this setup and go for a somewhat easier setup.

And I did put a-lot of thought into this, and it wouldn't be a good thing if I would just read all the comments on this threat and go all like.

"Okay, sure you're right"

There are mixed opinions, and that also include my opinion as well, this is not a topic "I'm right, but I just want an ego boost"
It's a lot of money and I just want to know if there are a few things that can be tweaked, looking at DDR2 and DDR3 people were right that right now DDR3 is overkill since it has slim-to-none performance boost. and should only be used for Workstations, or server applications and even that is debatable.

That's the input I'm looking for.

If I say it would only cost me 50 euro's more to go DDR3 opposed to DDR2 would the choice be the same or should I still revise.

I figure if it wouldn't cost a penny more everyone would go DDR3 if they could.
If it would cost 200 euro's more to go DDR3 I wouldn't even botter.
\
Your opinion is yours I'm looking for feedback but I reckon I'm still entitiled to give an argument why I "thought" this to be the best choice, you're free to comment on that.

September 23, 2008 10:04:15 AM

i agree with most on here about dropping ddr3 ram. just don't see the added performance for increased price. And as ddr3 becomes more mainstream it will be much faster than 1333 (unless your ddr3 ram is much higher and you're under clocking with ratio) THW has done some comparisons on higher end ddr2 v lower end ddr3, just search for them

also, i would drop down to 4870 (if you stay with 1366x768) and then just upgrade sooner as opposed to spending the money on a 4870x2 and waiting longer to upgrade. especially if you're a performance whore.
September 23, 2008 10:11:45 AM

Well I guess I should drop the DDR3 memory for now, since even Crysis doesn't utilize it.

So I got a few questions however;

Is a DDR3 slot compatible with DDR2 ram, or do I have to revise the MB as well?

Than if going to a DDR2 board which clock is the best to choose?

RAM isn't really my department unfortunatly so any help would be appericiated.
September 23, 2008 10:13:46 AM

I guess, you and I are in different situation. 150 euro is about 200USD which is quite alot to me even consider ddr3 and x2 included.

as outlw6669 said, "With DX11 not to far off, it is kinda hard to call any current GPU future proof beyond the next year or so," and windows 7 also releasing next year. this prove that there are not future proof.

Bottom line is. it is your money. use it when u need it :p 
September 23, 2008 10:17:54 AM

yes, you do need a new Mobo.
In my opinion ddr2 1066(pc8500) would be bang for the buck. 4gb cost below $100 and about 10% boost from traditional ddr2 800 (pc 6400). ^o^

ps: "True knowledge exists knowing that u know nothing." now you know, my friend!
September 23, 2008 11:07:36 AM

Well here goes, this is a small calculation of what I had and what I got with it revised.

First I had a X48 Abit board with 4 GB of DDR3 memory.

199
219

----- +

418 Euro's (Fat Price indeed)

Now I got myself a Asus PQ5-Pro

Which also has FW and SATAII support (Which the Abit lacked apperantly) and off course it's a DDR2 Board.

115
99


----- +
214


418
214


----- -
204

So this Threat has saved me 204 Euro's to boot, and made me revise my Mother Board which now seems to have more functions aswell.


a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 11:48:54 AM

Better choices. One thing about DX11. We currently have DX10.1, and only ATI cards have that. When DX11 rolls out, youll still have those DX10.1 abilities, which will help down the road, and add a lil to your gaming experience.
a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 12:09:41 PM

Its fine. I spent $4500 on a PC for a 1280x1024 moniter. Why? Because I don't want to have to rip parts out ever few months. The only change I ever want to make to my builds are GFX card updates every two years.

Look at it this way, you should get around 45-55 FPS Crysis Very High at 1280x1024 :D 

DX 10.1 is pointless. Nothing uses it, and DX10 as a whole looks to be a stepping stone to DX11.

DDR3 is pointless as well. I built a rig using the stuff, but there isn't any major increase in speed.
a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 12:27:16 PM

You didnt get what Im saying. As we go to DX11, all the DX10.1 will be included in it. So far weve seen significant increases in fps using DX10.1 abd AA, plus a few other features. It all adds up. You wont lose DX10.1 going to DX11, but youll only have DX10 on a DX10 card going to DX 11 , and yes so far only AC supports DX10.1, but that wasnt my point, and yes, there will be more DX10.1 games coming, but still not my point, and yes, we will see improvements in DX10.1 games like weve seen in AC, but again, not my point
September 23, 2008 12:30:19 PM

Case CM Cavalier 3
PSU OCZ GameXStream
MotherBoard Asus P5Q-Pro
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
GPU Club 3D HD4870 X2
Memory OCZ 4GB 1066-555 Reaper
HDD 2x Hitachi Deskstar P7K500
ODD LG GH-20NSRBB
Sound Creative X-Fi Titanium

This is what I have as the revised version it's 200 euro's less than the other setup and I now even have planted an additional HDD, Sound Card, and DVD-Burner, so it's like 3xx something less expensive while not cutting down on the Mainboard, PSU (It's even upgraded) CPU, and GPU.

Comments?

Do so now, or forever hold your silence.
a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 12:35:50 PM

If you are using the 4870x2's HDMI output to your TV, you will not need another sound card.
It includes a built in sound processer that outputs through HDMI.
You can probably save some cash with DDR2 800 4-4-4-x.
It will access stored data at nearly the exact same speed as DDR2 1066 5-5-5-x.



The rest looks fine.
My 0.02€
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 23, 2008 12:39:22 PM

@ IronSight
I think you are pretty much there to be honest, apart from the X2 being complete overkill which you have already been given some sugestions for, but have decided to go against anyway. Yes its your call as you say but when you post with a title "Overkill or Future proof" then go on to disregard the sugestions that are relevant to the title, well lets say i can easily see where magicbullet was coming from. :) 
Future proofing as much as can be done is as has been said all relevant to you. I personally dont need to go get a i7 chip as soon as it releases and my system was built on a P35 with about 4 upgrades already planned. I guess what im saying is that unless you wait for the new motherboards with the new sockets you can forget future proofing from an enthusiasts performance point of view.

Mactronix
September 23, 2008 12:41:47 PM

outlw6669 said:
If you are using the 4870x2's HDMI output to your TV, you will not need another sound card.
It includes a built in sound processer that outputs through HDMI.
You can probably save some cash with DDR2 800 4-4-4-x.
It will access stored data at nearly the exact same speed as DDR2 1066 5-5-5-x.

http://www.thetechrepository.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=486&stc=1&d=1178293762

The rest looks fine.
My 0.02€


Thanks for the comment, I used a Soundcard cause I have a Harman Kardon 5.1 HTS so I could hook my PC up to that and get some cool Dolby on it.
It doesn't have a HDMI input so I need to use Optical for that.

As for the memory, it was a local discount, so it doesn't matter if I go to 800 it doesn't become cheaper (unfortunatly).
This is the final Tweak and I have save 300 Euro's which I could spend on something else, or Save up for an Awesome Monitor when I decide to move in with my GF.
September 23, 2008 12:49:18 PM

mactronix said:
@ IronSight
I think you are pretty much there to be honest, apart from the X2 being complete overkill which you have already been given some sugestions for, but have decided to go against anyway. Yes its your call as you say but when you post with a title "Overkill or Future proof" then go on to disregard the sugestions that are relevant to the title, well lets say i can easily see where magicbullet was coming from. :) 
Future proofing as much as can be done is as has been said all relevant to you. I personally dont need to go get a i7 chip as soon as it releases and my system was built on a P35 with about 4 upgrades already planned. I guess what im saying is that unless you wait for the new motherboards with the new sockets you can forget future proofing from an enthusiasts performance point of view.

Mactronix


I understand, and in my first comment I already announced the title to be unappropiate.
The reason however that I still maintain the X2 is for a very simple reason, I work for a company with a partnership while all the hardware can't be discounted anymore since I get a student discount, the X2 went down almost 100 euro's for me.

Which means I get the X2 for an additional 100 euro's it was to beautifull to pass up.

I'm well aware that the X2 is overkill for the resolution and I won't be tapping it's power, but games evolve rather violently and it's only a matter of time before the X2 is not able to support the latest games with AF/AA on very high, especially considering this all has to run on Vista with DX 10 in mind.

I thank you for your comment and I understand the regards, I haven't neglected the comments on the X2 at all, it's just that considering the situation I find this to be a very nice setup.


I would like to thank all the people that supported me this day, you saved me a buckload of money which I could go on and spend on a monitor if I please later in the future.

!