YAY SOE !!!

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Hello Everyone!l

I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
handheld).

AND NOW THIS!!!

Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
seconds lag.

As the title of my post says:

YAY SOE!!!

Bye

Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria

Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)


<dirk@dbx501.de>
Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
38 answers Last reply
More about tomshardware
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:

    > Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
    > the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
    > to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    > before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
    > patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    > seconds lag.

    I was in both places today (Anchorhead and Dant) and didn't notice any
    lag at all.
    *shrug* Obviously it's a YMMV thing.
    In beta I only lagged around the blue frogs where there were a zillion
    people screaming for where to get a ship.

    --
    http://www.simplerich.com

    Illegitimi non carborundum
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Well, I dunno bout the Jedi thing since I don't get into it much. I grind
    out exp for my own reasons. If I "get" Jedi then great, if not I could
    really care less. After talking to a few of the Jedi knights and padawans in
    my guild I am not sure I am interested in losing that much experience to
    some imperial hiding behind a rebel faction banner. Chicken <expletive
    deleted> players if you ask me. Same goes for rebel players hiding under an
    imperial faction to safely hunt imperials..

    However, I do agree on the lag thing. I have noticed severe lag pretty much
    everywhere that is most irritating. I hope it gets better but I saw what
    happened in EQ so that ain't too likely for awhile imho.

    Just my thoughts.

    --
    Obitrotzu Ossko
    Aspiring TKA / Master Creature Handler
    Warrant Officer I - Rebel Alliance
    Corbantis Server
    http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/userinfo.html?char_id=43046

    "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
    news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
    > Hello Everyone!l
    >
    > I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
    > killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
    > but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
    > as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
    > NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
    > much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
    > handheld).
    >
    > AND NOW THIS!!!
    >
    > Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    > with
    > the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
    > to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    > before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
    > patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    > seconds lag.
    >
    > As the title of my post says:
    >
    > YAY SOE!!!
    >
    > Bye
    >
    > Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
    > Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
    >
    > Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
    > Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
    >
    >
    >
    > <dirk@dbx501.de>
    > Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
    >
    > === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    It's not all about PVP pal.

    --

    --
    Anthony Giampa; Imperiai2@cox.net
    In the year 2000: "...The American bald eagle will be taken off the
    protective species list,
    not because it's no longer endangered, but because it is a douchebag." --
    David Duchovny


    "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
    news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
    > Hello Everyone!l
    >
    > I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
    > killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
    > but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
    > as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
    > NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
    > much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
    > handheld).
    >
    > AND NOW THIS!!!
    >
    > Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    with
    > the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
    > to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    > before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
    > patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    > seconds lag.
    >
    > As the title of my post says:
    >
    > YAY SOE!!!
    >
    > Bye
    >
    > Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
    > Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
    >
    > Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
    > Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
    >
    >
    >
    > <dirk@dbx501.de>
    > Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
    >
    > === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    <SNIPPING REDUNDANT RANT>

    Bye.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
    <Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:

    >It's not all about PVP pal.
    >
    >--

    Bravo!

    Well said!!!
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
    more.
    Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
    or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
    they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
    What's to keep players ?
    CONTENT:
    It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
    missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette, DWB
    only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
    CRAFTING:
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
    lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time at
    all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have millions.
    After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
    COMPETION:
    Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
    multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
    BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
    play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
    Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
    ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
    SWAPPINGS over single account players.
    COMBAT/PVP:
    If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
    Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
    select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill range.
    Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only PvP'n and
    Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has lots of
    money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative. Oh...what
    fun.
    JEDI:
    Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
    wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
    And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
    began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
    many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
    want your buck.

    I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's just
    trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually some
    will make Jedi.

    SPACE EXPANSION:
    I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
    provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest their
    time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the ground
    doing the mining, crafting and buying.

    Best wishes to the remaining players.

    "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
    news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
    > Hello Everyone!l
    >
    > I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
    > killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
    > but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
    > as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
    > NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
    > much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
    > handheld).
    >
    > AND NOW THIS!!!
    >
    > Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    > with
    > the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
    > to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    > before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
    > patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    > seconds lag.
    >
    > As the title of my post says:
    >
    > YAY SOE!!!
    >
    > Bye
    >
    > Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
    > Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
    >
    > Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
    > Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
    >
    >
    >
    > <dirk@dbx501.de>
    > Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
    >
    > === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:

    >
    > Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
    > the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni

    Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
    They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
    changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
    of their list and usually fixed those problems.

    They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish that
    we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.

    CH
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:
    > Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    >> with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
    >
    >
    > Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
    > They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
    > changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
    > of their list and usually fixed those problems.
    >
    > They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish that
    > we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.
    >
    > CH

    When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in JTL
    or do you mean to listen to the player base better?

    nib
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    I disagree. I have played since only a few weeks after the release, and I'm
    still not bored. I have not yet been to all the planets or done all the
    missions or mastered all the professions. Why? Because I only play about 2
    to 5 hours a week. Anybody who plays any game more than an hour or two a
    night is going to burn themselves out very quickly. Slow down and smell the
    roses, it's a fun game.


    "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
    >more.
    > Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    > played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
    > or to do and are bored of it.

    <snip>
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    whine, whine, whine....
    The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.

    "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
    >more.
    > Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    > played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
    > or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
    > they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
    > What's to keep players ?
    > CONTENT:
    > It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
    > missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette,
    > DWB only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
    > CRAFTING:
    > It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
    > lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time
    > at all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have
    > millions. After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
    > COMPETION:
    > Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
    > multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
    > BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
    > play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
    > Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
    > ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
    > SWAPPINGS over single account players.
    > COMBAT/PVP:
    > If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
    > Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
    > select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill
    > range. Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only
    > PvP'n and Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has
    > lots of money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative.
    > Oh...what fun.
    > JEDI:
    > Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
    > wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
    > And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
    > began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
    > many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
    > want your buck.
    >
    > I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's
    > just trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually
    > some will make Jedi.
    >
    > SPACE EXPANSION:
    > I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
    > provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest
    > their time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the
    > ground doing the mining, crafting and buying.
    >
    > Best wishes to the remaining players.
    >
    > "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
    > news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
    >> Hello Everyone!l
    >>
    >> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
    >> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a
    >> jedi,
    >> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as
    >> rare
    >> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but
    >> implementing
    >> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
    >> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
    >> handheld).
    >>
    >> AND NOW THIS!!!
    >>
    >> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    >> with
    >> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing
    >> lag
    >> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    >> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead!
    >> Dantooine:before
    >> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    >> seconds lag.
    >>
    >> As the title of my post says:
    >>
    >> YAY SOE!!!
    >>
    >> Bye
    >>
    >> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
    >> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
    >>
    >> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
    >> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> <dirk@dbx501.de>
    >> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
    >>
    >> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
    TURN.
    So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
    Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
    CHANGE.
    I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.

    Enjoy. Fill your boots.

    "No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
    news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
    > whine, whine, whine....
    > The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
    >
    > "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
    >>few more.
    >> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
    TURN.
    So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
    Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
    CHANGE.
    I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.

    Enjoy. Fill your boot
    "No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
    news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
    > whine, whine, whine....
    > The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
    >
    > "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
    >>few more.
    >> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    >> played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little
    >> new or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends
    >> that they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    If the game kept your interest for a year, don't you think it did its
    job at content? Only one MMORPG has ever kept my interest beyond 3
    months and that was Asheron's Call. If you found enjoyment in SWG for 12
    months then that is about 9 months more than I did. :D

    nib

    dak wrote:
    > After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
    > TURN.
    > So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
    > Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
    > CHANGE.
    > I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.
    >
    > Enjoy. Fill your boot
    > "No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
    >
    >>whine, whine, whine....
    >>The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
    >>
    >>"dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >>
    >>>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >>>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
    >>>few more.
    >>>Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    >>>played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little
    >>>new or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends
    >>>that they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
    >
    >
    >
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Actually, no. What kept me playing longer was because I was a mayor of a
    Player City. As you know (or not), it's VERY difficult for mayors to resign
    and then the city and players depend on you. Also, I was the only richest
    in the city that could pay the weekly city maintenance fee of 200k each and
    every week. Had I not been mayor, I would of left the game even sooner.
    Both of my kids left only after a few months of playing.
    The game offers very little content and it becomes very repetative. Of
    course, initially once you buy the software and pay a subscription, you'd
    want to fulfill it but I would think there are fewer resubscriptions. The
    game is approaching 2 years and I think if players don't have the game by
    now, JTL and the Jedi revamp isn't going to win them and it's just a matter
    of time more vets leave.


    "nib" <individual_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
    news:2ua5l8F278avpU1@uni-berlin.de...
    > If the game kept your interest for a year, don't you think it did its job
    > at content? Only one MMORPG has ever kept my interest beyond 3 months and
    > that was Asheron's Call. If you found enjoyment in SWG for 12 months then
    > that is about 9 months more than I did. :D
    >
    > nib
    >
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    dak wrote:
    > Actually, no. What kept me playing longer was because I was a mayor of a
    > Player City. As you know (or not), it's VERY difficult for mayors to resign
    > and then the city and players depend on you. Also, I was the only richest
    > in the city that could pay the weekly city maintenance fee of 200k each and
    > every week. Had I not been mayor, I would of left the game even sooner.
    > Both of my kids left only after a few months of playing.
    > The game offers very little content and it becomes very repetative. Of
    > course, initially once you buy the software and pay a subscription, you'd
    > want to fulfill it but I would think there are fewer resubscriptions. The
    > game is approaching 2 years and I think if players don't have the game by
    > now, JTL and the Jedi revamp isn't going to win them and it's just a matter
    > of time more vets leave.
    >

    I agree with you really, I was just point out that you did stay a year,
    which is more than any game, save one, has ever kept me.

    And I don't really believe simply adding content is the solution. What
    is content but some new stupid creature to fight? How long is some new
    creature that you can hunt really going to keep your interest? Once
    you've seen it and killed it, you're done. Frankly, I've found that SWG
    can maybe keep my interest for about 1-2 months at a time, then I quit
    for a few months and try other things. I'm currently on my 3rd return.
    I've paid for one month, my subscription ends Nov. 8th and I won't be
    renewing it. The game is just dull and pointless if you're not a PvPer
    or aren't into being "uber".

    nib
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Someone call the WAAAAAAmbulance


    "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
    >more.
    > Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    > played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
    > or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
    > they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
    > What's to keep players ?
    > CONTENT:
    > It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
    > missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette,
    > DWB only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
    > CRAFTING:
    > It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
    > lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time
    > at all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have
    > millions. After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
    > COMPETION:
    > Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
    > multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
    > BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
    > play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
    > Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
    > ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
    > SWAPPINGS over single account players.
    > COMBAT/PVP:
    > If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
    > Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
    > select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill
    > range. Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only
    > PvP'n and Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has
    > lots of money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative.
    > Oh...what fun.
    > JEDI:
    > Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
    > wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
    > And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
    > began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
    > many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
    > want your buck.
    >
    > I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's
    > just trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually
    > some will make Jedi.
    >
    > SPACE EXPANSION:
    > I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
    > provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest
    > their time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the
    > ground doing the mining, crafting and buying.
    >
    > Best wishes to the remaining players.
    >
    > "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
    > news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
    >> Hello Everyone!l
    >>
    >> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
    >> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a
    >> jedi,
    >> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as
    >> rare
    >> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but
    >> implementing
    >> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
    >> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
    >> handheld).
    >>
    >> AND NOW THIS!!!
    >>
    >> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
    >> with
    >> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing
    >> lag
    >> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
    >> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead!
    >> Dantooine:before
    >> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
    >> seconds lag.
    >>
    >> As the title of my post says:
    >>
    >> YAY SOE!!!
    >>
    >> Bye
    >>
    >> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
    >> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
    >>
    >> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
    >> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> <dirk@dbx501.de>
    >> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
    >>
    >> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
    >
    >
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    In article <IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03>, No1uNo wrote:
    > whine, whine, whine.... The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't
    > like the game then quit.

    Everything I recall seeing from you is stupidly top-posted, doesn't trim the
    quoted material, and is nothing but bitching about other people's
    complaints. What's the point?

    --
    --Tim Smith
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Get a new computer and a DSL or Cable line. While you are at it, get a
    really good video card. Now stop complaining and play the game.


    Girga Davom "The Dancing Smuggler"
    Flurry Server
    Master Smuggler/Dancer
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    nib wrote:

    > Clawhound wrote:
    >
    >> Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the
    >>> livegame with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
    >> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
    >> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
    >> of their list and usually fixed those problems.
    >>
    >> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
    >> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.
    >>
    >> CH
    >
    >
    > When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in JTL
    > or do you mean to listen to the player base better?
    >
    > nib

    JtL is a start, but not an end. Both JtL and the ground game really
    still needs lots of fleshing out and detail work. If they build on those
    bases consistantly, they can add lots of star-warsiness and storyline to
    the game that the players can enjoy. Unfortunately, they focused on
    large dungeons and big add-ins.

    They do still have bug fixed to do in JtL. They were pushing publishes
    that fixed 250 bugs during beta. They fixed a while lot. But, they could
    not fix them all. The gamebreakers come first.

    The gameplay itself still needs polishing. No plan survives contact with
    the enemy. Likewise, no game survives contact with the player base.

    They do need to improve communication. I've already seen them scrap the
    original communication model to move to this current communication
    model. Quite honestly, they are struggling as the corporate model
    doesn't work here. What we have is a new sort of governence model
    emerging, as the player base, in a player controlled economy, expects a
    voice in governance. How do you give that?

    Communication is better. Thunderheart and Tiggs really believe in their
    jobs. But knowing what to communicate and when is the troublesome part.

    In August, they actually brought all the player correspondents to Austin
    for a meeting. That's unheard of in the MMORP world.

    Finally, they still need to do work because they are working on a new
    model of communication. Their old model just didn't work and they
    admitted that.

    CH
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:
    > nib wrote:
    >
    >> Clawhound wrote:
    >>
    >>> Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the
    >>>> livegame with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
    >>> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
    >>> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the
    >>> top of their list and usually fixed those problems.
    >>>
    >>> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
    >>> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to
    >>> make.
    >>>
    >>> CH
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in
    >> JTL or do you mean to listen to the player base better?
    >>
    >> nib
    >
    >
    > JtL is a start, but not an end. Both JtL and the ground game really
    > still needs lots of fleshing out and detail work. If they build on those
    > bases consistantly, they can add lots of star-warsiness and storyline to
    > the game that the players can enjoy. Unfortunately, they focused on
    > large dungeons and big add-ins.
    >
    > They do still have bug fixed to do in JtL. They were pushing publishes
    > that fixed 250 bugs during beta. They fixed a while lot. But, they could
    > not fix them all. The gamebreakers come first.

    Yeah, that's what I thought you meant....I quit SWG the first time
    because I felt like I was being made to pay a monthly fee while they
    finished up the game (I was a DE). Now they're doing that again with
    JTL? Bullshit. I'm tired of being a paying tester for MMORPGs because
    they need to get the cashflow coming quicker.

    I mean, come one, they're still promising an entire combat revamp! How
    long has this game been out? They basically admit that combat is so
    broken that they have to gut the entire thing and start over...yet I'm
    paying $15/mo for this? (well, I'm really not since I canceled my account)

    SWG was a great concept and had great potential but I think its problem
    goes back to its original designer. His vision of SWG and the SWG
    universe just didn't match but he tried to make it match...and he failed.

    Oh well. I'll move on to another game yet again and see if someone can
    finally get it right.

    >
    > The gameplay itself still needs polishing. No plan survives contact with
    > the enemy. Likewise, no game survives contact with the player base.

    That's what proper beta testing is for.

    nib
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Haqsau wrote:

    > I disagree. I have played since only a few weeks after the release, and I'm
    > still not bored. I have not yet been to all the planets or done all the
    > missions or mastered all the professions. Why? Because I only play about 2
    > to 5 hours a week. Anybody who plays any game more than an hour or two a
    > night is going to burn themselves out very quickly. Slow down and smell the
    > roses, it's a fun game.
    >
    >
    > "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
    >
    >>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
    >>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
    >>more.
    >>Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
    >>played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
    >>or to do and are bored of it.
    >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >

    There's truth to that. The reason that SWG has little content is because
    content is what you make of it. The designers considered each profession
    content: they each change your play style. Grinding then went through
    the content fast, then complained that they was no content.

    SWG is a game equally about what you bring with you. People complain, "I
    can't find things. It's a bad game." I go, "I'm on a self-assigned quest
    to find a better stun baton." At the end of my quest, I have a more
    powerful weapon. Whohoo. See, content. :)

    If you are only combat focused, this game eventually leaves you bored.
    Combat is only part of the content.

    Last night I followed ten treasure maps. I love these things. I'm
    assembling a loot museum and they always provide loot!! Mind you, it's
    cheap loot, but that's the idea.

    CH
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    nib wrote:

    > Clawhound wrote:
    >
    >
    > That's what proper beta testing is for.
    >
    > nib

    I think that beta testing could not find SWG's problem.

    I find two types of people in gaming: those who consume content and
    those to make content.

    Those who consume content prefer games with heavier storylines and more
    obvious goals. "Just show me where to go and what to do," they might
    say. This is a majority of the population.

    Those who make content prefer games with open-endedness, and often dump
    the storyline and just play in whatever fashion they feel like. They
    might say, "Storyline? I don't want no storyline. I don't need no
    stinkin storyline." These are a minority of the population.

    SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
    alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
    what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
    this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
    completely different from the design idea of "content."

    For those folks like me, who enjoy creating their own game, the game can
    work, because it needs the imagination that I bring into the game.
    Content is anything I haven't done yet, which meshes more closely with
    the original design.

    Now, Beta consisted mostly of SWG enthusiasts or Beta enthusiasts who
    love making a game. They were creators. They brought this perspective to
    the game play. For them, the style of game play worked. When this style
    of game hit live, and consumers hit the game world, people suddenly
    noticed that there was "nothing to do." And to this gaming style, there
    really *IS* a lack of things to do, because their styles just don't see
    the content, much like a football player in a library doesn't see all
    the stories. It's not about what's there, it's about what engages you.

    A second problem comes from the definition of "content." To the
    consumers, most of whom are fight oriented, combat is content. To the
    designers, each unique profession is a unique game style, and is
    therefore unique content. Running a business in content. Finding new
    equipment is content. Back-engineering the game math is content.
    Organizing a guild is content. The population interprets this as WORK
    that prevents them from fighting more.

    Third, the long establish RPG style is the fight-loot-advance-buy play
    style. This game breaks that game rhythm. It breaks the "contract" of
    the game a forces them into play styles that they don't want. They only
    want the FLAB play style, and they just aren't happy with any other play
    style. In the long run, they'll take their money and go to a different
    FLAB style game and be much happier.

    Everquest is FLAB style gameplay.

    SWG is more Organize, Develop, and Encounter. That's ODE style. Sims is
    also ODE style. So is SimCity.

    In Meyers-Briggs terms, this game is written for N type people, who are
    a minority of the population. It was tested by N type people. It's
    played by S type people. I think it's also P oriented, with all the
    playing style changes that the content requires. The J's, who want to
    play one and only one style, will change games rather than playing style.

    If you want to write the perfect MMORP, you design for a IST*. (I) for
    Introverted. Computer folks tend to prefer solo play. (S) for sensing,
    or the preference for plain facts and obvious play. (T) for thinking, as
    computer folks don't want a touch-feely experience. This leaves
    exploration and changeability for (P) while also providing organizing
    and template design for (J).

    The trouble is is that the game designers are likely all (N) types and
    just have a hard time designing for (S) types. And (S) types are likely
    to get bored designing MMORPs.

    Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
    perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
    for the minority player base.

    CH
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:
    >
    > Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
    > perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
    > for the minority player base.
    >
    > CH

    Everything you said above is all well and good, but doesn't deal with
    the overriding point. All the content issues aside, the game was
    released incomplete. Of the 32 professions, I'd guess that 1/2 of them
    were either not finished or simply broken (DE being a prime example).
    Yet, the game was released with the intention of SOE "getting to it"
    later. The first time I quit was because after waiting for a couple
    months for my DE profession to actually work, SOE came out and said that
    they *knew* the DE profession was broken but it would be at least 3
    months until they could get to it.

    Now, in most games that might be something you can live with. However, I
    was paying them $15/month! Right there, by their own admission, they
    basically said "you need to pay an additional $45 before your chosen
    profession will even be *looked at*". Doing some quick math, $50 for the
    game, ~ $30 for the 3 months I had played (i.e. one free month) and now
    another $45 until they started _looking_ at my profession? $125 before I
    could start playing my chosen profession? No thanks.

    So, how is that relevant to what's happening now? Well, from your own
    words, JTL isn't finished. Basically, they didn't learn anything from
    their original debacle. Once again, we're supposed to shell out another
    $30 and play their broken game while they continue to "balance" and
    "tweak" it since they'd rather get paid now instead of later. At least
    they aren't raising the monthly fee for JTL, that'd be an even worse
    slap in the face.

    And, to add insult to injury, SOE has plainly stated that the combat
    system is fubared enough to warrant an entire revamp, no? Yet, they put
    that off until AFTER yet another expansion (which is also likely going
    to have severe balancing issues that will need to be addressed)? Who the
    hell are they kidding? Once again, the lowly old player is supposed to
    keep paying their monthly fee until SOE can get around to addressing a
    problem they admit is there.

    Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
    account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
    I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire game
    from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time sink. Bah!

    nib
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:

    > Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
    > perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
    > for the minority player base.
    >
    > CH

    That was excellently said... all of it, not just the bit I left hehehe.

    --
    http://www.simplerich.com

    Illegitimi non carborundum
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Reply to message from Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> (Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:01:
    49) about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":

    Wow, what a thread..Umh..what did i start..lol? First:
    Right after posting my initial post i logged into swg and...WOW..all the
    lag was gone.

    YAY SOE (NOT sarcastic this time)...yay

    I know they are doing their best to fix bugs. I have seen those servers
    going up and down all the time and patching.

    Now since lag is gone, heres a new list:

    1. Downgrade everyone that cheat grinded his fs xp in the geo caves (yes,
    me too)...same to all the jedi,who made their template there within days.

    2. Delete all the "Bria-Fightclub" jedi council rank cheated ranks, that
    prevent REAL players from entering those ranks. Like every jedi is master
    and councilsomewhat here on bria..it is laughable. Btw SOE: contact me....i
    give you names...i am SICK OF THIS!

    3. Downgrade DoTs in PvP!!! They are needed, but NOT THAT STRONG. No sense
    a DoT killing all your mind in 2 ticks.

    4. Downgrade exceptional stuff (*cry* mine too..lol) and keep it more rare.
    We looted 13 exceptional acklay bones...lol.

    5. Punish (right word?) cheaters and exploiters where it hurts them really
    bad.

    6. FIX the droid-shows-jedi-offline-bug
    ...FIX IT QUICK..Cant be my brother is the only jedi on bria that is
    visible to droids all the time...to believe in what Katlin says.

    Fingers start hurting again..lol

    Yours sincerely
    Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>, Bria Master TK, Master Fencer, Master Brawler

    P.S. Still enjoying the game!


    C> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
    C> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
    C> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
    C> of their list and usually fixed those problems.

    C> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
    C> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to
    C> make.

    C> CH

    === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    nib wrote:

    > Clawhound wrote:
    >
    >
    > Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
    > account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
    > I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire game
    > from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time sink. Bah!
    >
    > nib

    Ah, I see.

    For me, this is a cheap class on how to/not to implement a MMORP. By
    definition, this keeps my attention. I wish that I had been in Beta and
    seen more of it develop and go horribly wrong.

    To me, JtL is a critical part of finishing the game. It's not Star Wars
    without space ships. That much said, JtL will be declared completely
    broken before December. Guaran-damn-teed.

    CH
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:
    > nib wrote:
    >
    >> Clawhound wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
    >> account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
    >> I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire
    >> game from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time
    >> sink. Bah!
    >>
    >> nib
    >
    >
    > Ah, I see.
    >
    > For me, this is a cheap class on how to/not to implement a MMORP. By
    > definition, this keeps my attention. I wish that I had been in Beta and
    > seen more of it develop and go horribly wrong.

    LOL, well it is that. Assuming you take notes well it would be a great
    education in what not to do. :D

    >
    > To me, JtL is a critical part of finishing the game. It's not Star Wars
    > without space ships. That much said, JtL will be declared completely
    > broken before December. Guaran-damn-teed.

    I do agree that Star Wars does need space ships. The sad thing is that
    this game could have been the best of the bunch. But, frankly, I think
    they were too ambitious.

    nib

    >
    > CH
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Girga" <spam@scrapironworship.com> wrote in message
    news:beba9447.0410280613.2d6e5734@posting.google.com...
    > Get a new computer and a DSL or Cable line. While you are at it, get a
    > really good video card. Now stop complaining and play the game.
    >
    >
    > Girga Davom "The Dancing Smuggler"
    > Flurry Server
    > Master Smuggler/Dancer

    My computer specs:

    Athlon 64 3000+ running at 2.1 GHz
    1 Gig of 3200 Corsair DDR RAM
    GeForce FX 5600 with 256mb VRAM
    SATA Drives
    Cable Modem

    Yet after the first publish of JTL with ALL graphic options at the lowest
    possible setting, I was getting 2-4 frames per second, where I wasn't
    getting any before with nearly highest graphic options going.

    That has since been fixed by messing with my vertex shader version number in
    the game, but still, don't act like an SOE employee when people talk about
    new lag after a patch and blame it on their computer or their drivers.
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:04:15 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

    >On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
    ><Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:
    >
    >>It's not all about PVP pal.
    >>
    >>--
    >
    >Bravo!
    >
    >Well said!!!
    >
    Sony sells SWG as a pvp game so it is very much about pvp although
    cant see why anyone would play the silly thing .
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:01:23 -0400, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    >SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
    >alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
    >what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
    >this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
    >completely different from the design idea of "content."

    But you pay 15 dollars a month; sorry that makes you are a consumer
    too.

    Wow, hmm, I guess today I'll hone my "creator" skills. I will be going
    to the theater today but instead having them project the movie, I'll
    just look at the blank screen and make my own "content".

    NeverWinter Nights is an example of a game where you bought it with
    the understanding that you "created" your own "content". When you
    bought the game you knew you could play it, but it was also designed
    for you to "create" "content". Said so on the box.

    If SWG was meant to be this sort of game, than I guess SOE perpetrated
    a fraud, especially seeing how they managed to instantly alienate a
    majority of the costumer base tells me they failed to communicate the
    true nature of the game. Perhaps a warning label was needed like
    "Creativity not included".
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Shane wrote:

    > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:01:23 -0400, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
    >>alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
    >>what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
    >>this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
    >>completely different from the design idea of "content."
    >
    >
    > But you pay 15 dollars a month; sorry that makes you are a consumer
    > too.
    >
    > Wow, hmm, I guess today I'll hone my "creator" skills. I will be going
    > to the theater today but instead having them project the movie, I'll
    > just look at the blank screen and make my own "content".
    >
    > NeverWinter Nights is an example of a game where you bought it with
    > the understanding that you "created" your own "content". When you
    > bought the game you knew you could play it, but it was also designed
    > for you to "create" "content". Said so on the box.
    >
    > If SWG was meant to be this sort of game, than I guess SOE perpetrated
    > a fraud, especially seeing how they managed to instantly alienate a
    > majority of the costumer base tells me they failed to communicate the
    > true nature of the game. Perhaps a warning label was needed like
    > "Creativity not included".

    You demonstrate EXACTLY my point. You see no content!

    SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
    it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
    Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You go
    there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.

    If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
    nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad or
    unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.

    As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.

    CH
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> wrote in
    news:4Bwgd.1768$Ny6.3008@mencken.net.nih.gov:

    > SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
    > it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
    > Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You
    > go there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.
    >
    > If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
    > nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad
    > or unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.
    >
    > As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.
    >
    > CH
    >
    Except the sand is dry and you can only make sanddunes from it using your
    hands. If SOE really meant for player-created content, they should have
    given tools and provided some water (or spice - it goes well with dunes
    ;)

    Neverwinter Nights has tools to create quests, dialogs, new content and
    do GM work. There's next to nothing for GMs in SW:G. I mean for player
    GMs - their "live" team definitely has tools to organize big events. But
    since they are not going to give tools to players, it's SOE's job to
    organize RP events, and that happens only occasionally.

    The largest problem is that any events, whether totally player generated
    or ones organized by SOE, have absolutely no effect on the persistent
    world. Nada, zero, zilch, nil, etc. And that's in the world where civil
    war is THE end game. Ever seen Bestine to turn into rebel city for a
    prolonged period of time? I don't mean several hours. Ever had player
    organized event where some action (say, posession of certain item) would
    trigger a response in NPCs? Even Cries of Alderaan was such a primitive
    thing... You would think that at least the result of it (whether rebels
    or imperials collected and decifered more messages) would tilt the
    standing on planets to one faction/side. At least for a month or so.
    Smugglers couldn't roleplay really well because they could not
    "smuggle." Even these imperial searches do not make it more interesting
    since imperial-aligned players have no control over it. Imagine an
    imperial factioned player in the colonel rank being able to order a squad
    of stormtroopers to intensify search in certain area. Or something
    similar. No such tools exist. Obviously because that will turn to
    griefing in the wrong hands. Or will it?

    It all comes down to how much control do you want to give to players.
    SOE gave a lot with player-driven economy but stopped short in other
    areas. The result is half-baked. That's what causes frustration. We
    are not given content because we have some freedom to create our own.
    But we are not given enough freedom to create quality contents. Oops!
    So now the mentioning that players can create their own content becomes a
    lame excuse for not providing one.
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Clawhound wrote:

    > You demonstrate EXACTLY my point. You see no content!
    >
    > SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
    > it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
    > Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You go
    > there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.
    >
    > If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
    > nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad or
    > unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.
    >
    > As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.
    >
    > CH

    IAWTP

    --
    http://www.simplerich.com

    Illegitimi non carborundum
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:37:46 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:

    >On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:04:15 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
    >><Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>It's not all about PVP pal.
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>
    >>Bravo!
    >>
    >>Well said!!!
    >>
    >Sony sells SWG as a pvp game so it is very much about pvp although
    >cant see why anyone would play the silly thing .

    Actually they market it as a MMORPG first and foremost.

    What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
    turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
    ilk.

    Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
    trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????

    If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
    of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
    those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
    Realm??
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Reply to message from Skinner1@hotmail.com (Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:24:11)
    about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":


    S> What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
    S> turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
    S> ilk.

    It IS already like that...Throw a poison, a disease and wait less than a
    minute.

    S> Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
    S> trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????

    S> If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
    S> of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
    S> those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
    S> Realm??

    and i don't like 3d shooters anyways..I have played them all since
    Wolfenstein on the C-64. Know one, know all. Except the graphics getting
    better with time.

    Dirk


    Bye
    Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de> Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:02:31 +0200

    === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:17:40 +0200, Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de>
    wrote:

    >Reply to message from Skinner1@hotmail.com (Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:24:11)
    >about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":
    >
    >
    >
    > S> What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
    > S> turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
    > S> ilk.
    >
    >It IS already like that...Throw a poison, a disease and wait less than a
    >minute.
    >
    > S> Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
    > S> trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????
    >
    > S> If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
    > S> of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
    > S> those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
    > S> Realm??
    >
    >and i don't like 3d shooters anyways..I have played them all since
    >Wolfenstein on the C-64. Know one, know all. Except the graphics getting
    >better with time.
    >
    >Dirk
    >

    Precisely. I have done some very un-sophisticated polls of people...
    and through my own observations between this game for a year+ now and
    over 5 years playing Ultima Online, the other major PvP allowing game
    and I am convinced that 90% of the people that play these games could
    care less about PvP!

    Yet the die hard PvP faction continues to try to force the issue at
    every turn. And it's getting VERY Frustrating!
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Alexei Boukirev wrote:

    >
    > It all comes down to how much control do you want to give to players.
    > SOE gave a lot with player-driven economy but stopped short in other
    > areas. The result is half-baked. That's what causes frustration. We
    > are not given content because we have some freedom to create our own.
    > But we are not given enough freedom to create quality contents. Oops!
    > So now the mentioning that players can create their own content becomes a
    > lame excuse for not providing one.

    Very good point. That's where the game is lacking.

    CH
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

    Shane wrote:


    >
    > If you want to pay 15 bucks to do all of SOE's heavy lifting, fine,
    > but don't wrap it in some half ass philosophy based on what you think
    > you know of "people". It's sounds like the bad college coffeehouse
    > conversation that used to go on when I was at the university where
    > these students (who had read a few philosophy, sociology, political
    > ideology books) would pontificate on societal problems and why the
    > masses just "don't get it" and only if they were as "educated" us and
    > could see the ambition of what society they wanted to create. Your
    > better off tossing that philosophy away and just sticking to real
    > world pragmatism, it will get you farther in life.
    >

    Real world pragmatism is that some people have different opinions of
    fun. I don't see fun in football, but lot of other people do. I won't
    waste my money, and they are glad to attend the games.

    In the same way, some folks will enjoy SWG as designed, and others
    won't. Same game. Different experiences.

    And yes, I happily admit that the game as problems. Its main problem is
    that it's designed for a minority playing style and a casual playing
    style. This was my point earlier.

    CH
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