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YAY SOE !!!

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Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Hello Everyone!l

I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
handheld).

AND NOW THIS!!!

Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
seconds lag.

As the title of my post says:

YAY SOE!!!

Bye

Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria

Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)



<dirk@dbx501.de>
Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8

More about : yay soe

Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:

> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
> seconds lag.

I was in both places today (Anchorhead and Dant) and didn't notice any
lag at all.
*shrug* Obviously it's a YMMV thing.
In beta I only lagged around the blue frogs where there were a zillion
people screaming for where to get a ship.

--
http://www.simplerich.com

Illegitimi non carborundum
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Well, I dunno bout the Jedi thing since I don't get into it much. I grind
out exp for my own reasons. If I "get" Jedi then great, if not I could
really care less. After talking to a few of the Jedi knights and padawans in
my guild I am not sure I am interested in losing that much experience to
some imperial hiding behind a rebel faction banner. Chicken <expletive
deleted> players if you ask me. Same goes for rebel players hiding under an
imperial faction to safely hunt imperials..

However, I do agree on the lag thing. I have noticed severe lag pretty much
everywhere that is most irritating. I hope it gets better but I saw what
happened in EQ so that ain't too likely for awhile imho.

Just my thoughts.

--
Obitrotzu Ossko
Aspiring TKA / Master Creature Handler
Warrant Officer I - Rebel Alliance
Corbantis Server
http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/userinfo.html?char_id=4304...

"Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
> Hello Everyone!l
>
> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
> handheld).
>
> AND NOW THIS!!!
>
> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
> with
> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
> seconds lag.
>
> As the title of my post says:
>
> YAY SOE!!!
>
> Bye
>
> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
>
> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
>
>
>
> <dirk@dbx501.de>
> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
>
> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Related resources
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

It's not all about PVP pal.

--

--
Anthony Giampa; Imperiai2@cox.net
In the year 2000: "...The American bald eagle will be taken off the
protective species list,
not because it's no longer endangered, but because it is a douchebag." --
David Duchovny


"Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
> Hello Everyone!l
>
> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
> handheld).
>
> AND NOW THIS!!!
>
> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
with
> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
> seconds lag.
>
> As the title of my post says:
>
> YAY SOE!!!
>
> Bye
>
> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
>
> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
>
>
>
> <dirk@dbx501.de>
> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
>
> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

<SNIPPING REDUNDANT RANT>

Bye.
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 5:17:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
<Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:

>It's not all about PVP pal.
>
>--

Bravo!

Well said!!!
October 27, 2004 5:44:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
more.
Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
What's to keep players ?
CONTENT:
It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette, DWB
only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
CRAFTING:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time at
all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have millions.
After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
COMPETION:
Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
SWAPPINGS over single account players.
COMBAT/PVP:
If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill range.
Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only PvP'n and
Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has lots of
money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative. Oh...what
fun.
JEDI:
Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
want your buck.

I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's just
trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually some
will make Jedi.

SPACE EXPANSION:
I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest their
time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the ground
doing the mining, crafting and buying.

Best wishes to the remaining players.

"Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
> Hello Everyone!l
>
> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a jedi,
> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as rare
> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but implementing
> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
> handheld).
>
> AND NOW THIS!!!
>
> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
> with
> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing lag
> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead! Dantooine:before
> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
> seconds lag.
>
> As the title of my post says:
>
> YAY SOE!!!
>
> Bye
>
> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
>
> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
>
>
>
> <dirk@dbx501.de>
> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
>
> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 6:01:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:

>
> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame with
> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni

Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
of their list and usually fixed those problems.

They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish that
we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.

CH
October 27, 2004 6:20:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
> Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>>
>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
>> with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
>
>
> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
> of their list and usually fixed those problems.
>
> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish that
> we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.
>
> CH

When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in JTL
or do you mean to listen to the player base better?

nib
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 7:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

I disagree. I have played since only a few weeks after the release, and I'm
still not bored. I have not yet been to all the planets or done all the
missions or mastered all the professions. Why? Because I only play about 2
to 5 hours a week. Anybody who plays any game more than an hour or two a
night is going to burn themselves out very quickly. Slow down and smell the
roses, it's a fun game.


"dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
>more.
> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
> played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
> or to do and are bored of it.

<snip>
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 8:55:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

whine, whine, whine....
The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.

"dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
>more.
> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
> played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
> or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
> they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
> What's to keep players ?
> CONTENT:
> It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
> missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette,
> DWB only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
> CRAFTING:
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
> lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time
> at all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have
> millions. After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
> COMPETION:
> Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
> multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
> BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
> play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
> Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
> ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
> SWAPPINGS over single account players.
> COMBAT/PVP:
> If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
> Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
> select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill
> range. Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only
> PvP'n and Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has
> lots of money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative.
> Oh...what fun.
> JEDI:
> Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
> wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
> And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
> began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
> many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
> want your buck.
>
> I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's
> just trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually
> some will make Jedi.
>
> SPACE EXPANSION:
> I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
> provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest
> their time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the
> ground doing the mining, crafting and buying.
>
> Best wishes to the remaining players.
>
> "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
> news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
>> Hello Everyone!l
>>
>> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
>> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a
>> jedi,
>> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as
>> rare
>> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but
>> implementing
>> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
>> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
>> handheld).
>>
>> AND NOW THIS!!!
>>
>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
>> with
>> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing
>> lag
>> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
>> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead!
>> Dantooine:before
>> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
>> seconds lag.
>>
>> As the title of my post says:
>>
>> YAY SOE!!!
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
>> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
>>
>> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
>> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
>>
>>
>>
>> <dirk@dbx501.de>
>> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
>>
>> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
>
>
October 27, 2004 9:42:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
TURN.
So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
CHANGE.
I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.

Enjoy. Fill your boots.

"No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
> whine, whine, whine....
> The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
>
> "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
>>few more.
>> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game.
October 27, 2004 9:44:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
TURN.
So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
CHANGE.
I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.

Enjoy. Fill your boot
"No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
> whine, whine, whine....
> The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
>
> "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
>>few more.
>> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
>> played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little
>> new or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends
>> that they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
October 27, 2004 9:44:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

If the game kept your interest for a year, don't you think it did its
job at content? Only one MMORPG has ever kept my interest beyond 3
months and that was Asheron's Call. If you found enjoyment in SWG for 12
months then that is about 9 months more than I did. :D 

nib

dak wrote:
> After playing the game for a year and hearing everyone else whine - IT"S MY
> TURN.
> So, there ya go......oh, and I did quit too.
> Made no sense paying to play every month for a game that DOESN'T REALLY
> CHANGE.
> I pay enough that I don't need to supply the content as well.
>
> Enjoy. Fill your boot
> "No1uNo" <wetbed2@huntmail.com> wrote in message
> news:IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03...
>
>>whine, whine, whine....
>>The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't like the game then quit.
>>
>>"dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>>
>>>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>>>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a
>>>few more.
>>>Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
>>>played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little
>>>new or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends
>>>that they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
>
>
>
October 27, 2004 10:51:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Actually, no. What kept me playing longer was because I was a mayor of a
Player City. As you know (or not), it's VERY difficult for mayors to resign
and then the city and players depend on you. Also, I was the only richest
in the city that could pay the weekly city maintenance fee of 200k each and
every week. Had I not been mayor, I would of left the game even sooner.
Both of my kids left only after a few months of playing.
The game offers very little content and it becomes very repetative. Of
course, initially once you buy the software and pay a subscription, you'd
want to fulfill it but I would think there are fewer resubscriptions. The
game is approaching 2 years and I think if players don't have the game by
now, JTL and the Jedi revamp isn't going to win them and it's just a matter
of time more vets leave.


"nib" <individual_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2ua5l8F278avpU1@uni-berlin.de...
> If the game kept your interest for a year, don't you think it did its job
> at content? Only one MMORPG has ever kept my interest beyond 3 months and
> that was Asheron's Call. If you found enjoyment in SWG for 12 months then
> that is about 9 months more than I did. :D 
>
> nib
>
October 27, 2004 10:51:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

dak wrote:
> Actually, no. What kept me playing longer was because I was a mayor of a
> Player City. As you know (or not), it's VERY difficult for mayors to resign
> and then the city and players depend on you. Also, I was the only richest
> in the city that could pay the weekly city maintenance fee of 200k each and
> every week. Had I not been mayor, I would of left the game even sooner.
> Both of my kids left only after a few months of playing.
> The game offers very little content and it becomes very repetative. Of
> course, initially once you buy the software and pay a subscription, you'd
> want to fulfill it but I would think there are fewer resubscriptions. The
> game is approaching 2 years and I think if players don't have the game by
> now, JTL and the Jedi revamp isn't going to win them and it's just a matter
> of time more vets leave.
>

I agree with you really, I was just point out that you did stay a year,
which is more than any game, save one, has ever kept me.

And I don't really believe simply adding content is the solution. What
is content but some new stupid creature to fight? How long is some new
creature that you can hunt really going to keep your interest? Once
you've seen it and killed it, you're done. Frankly, I've found that SWG
can maybe keep my interest for about 1-2 months at a time, then I quit
for a few months and try other things. I'm currently on my 3rd return.
I've paid for one month, my subscription ends Nov. 8th and I won't be
renewing it. The game is just dull and pointless if you're not a PvPer
or aren't into being "uber".

nib
October 27, 2004 11:50:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Someone call the WAAAAAAmbulance




"dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
>more.
> Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
> played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
> or to do and are bored of it. They stay on because of their friends that
> they've made but I doubt many will resubscribe.
> What's to keep players ?
> CONTENT:
> It doesn't take that long to do the POIs and quests and most of the NPC
> missions are a waste of time. You can go to Squill Cave, GeoLab, Vette,
> DWB only soooooo many times. It becomes tedious
> CRAFTING:
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that you can get additional
> lots from your friends, harvest for low and sell for high. Takes no time
> at all really to be EXCESSIVELY rich. So what, you craft and have
> millions. After awhile, you lose interest in making money.
> COMPETION:
> Well, how's a single account holder supposed to have fun with all those
> multiple account holders? They're always going to be RICHER and have the
> BEST weapons. Wow, get a life. Just how many accounts does one need to
> play SWG ? You'll soon discover there are two distinct classes here.
> Again, it don't take a rocket scientist to soon learn the COMPOUNDED
> ADVANTAGES of those with MULTIPLE accounts and the CROSS-SERVER-LOT
> SWAPPINGS over single account players.
> COMBAT/PVP:
> If you're a newer player, you're ALWAYS going to get you're butt kicked.
> Going overt really isn't an option for them. So, for them, they have to
> select "Duel please ?" and hope they combat a player in their skill
> range. Even being a Faction doesn't mean much as there's no GCW but only
> PvP'n and Guild Raids. Eventually, one becomes a Master Combat/Melee, has
> lots of money, buys the best weapons and even combat becomes repetative.
> Oh...what fun.
> JEDI:
> Well, the old jedi method just overfeed the economic system. As everyone
> wanted to master every friggen profession, they were grinding like crazy.
> And, that needed resources and TONS of it. So much, many older vet users
> began getting 5, 6 or even more accounts to supply it. Does SOE care how
> many accounts a user has or how rich players get. Of course not, they just
> want your buck.
>
> I certainly am NOT making another trip to that village. I think SOE's
> just trying to hook their older players into staying. So what, eventually
> some will make Jedi.
>
> SPACE EXPANSION:
> I highly DOUBT, JTL will bring in many new users. I also doubt it will
> provide the content to keep players. As more and more players invest
> their time doing JEDI or are out in space, there will be even fewer on the
> ground doing the mining, crafting and buying.
>
> Best wishes to the remaining players.
>
> "Dirk Pfeiffer" <dirk@dbx501.de> wrote in message
> news:1098825449@dirk.dbx501.de...
>> Hello Everyone!l
>>
>> I would like to thank SOE for finally killing the game. They started
>> killing it with giving every dumbass not only the chance to become a
>> jedi,
>> but making it horrible easy to become one. Instead of keeping jedi as
>> rare
>> as they were. They went on with not fixing existing bugs, but
>> implementing
>> NEW ones...releasing a TOTALLY BUGGED "add-on" (adding on more bugs?) and
>> much more i am to lazy to mention here (scribbling this post on my
>> handheld).
>>
>> AND NOW THIS!!!
>>
>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the livegame
>> with
>> the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is running on beta, introducing
>> lag
>> to the livegame that is impossible to imagine. Anchorhead, Tatooine :
>> before patch: like no lag..now: 4 seconds lag - PvP dead!
>> Dantooine:before
>> patch: 3 seconds lag (since launch they weren`t able to reduce it..now 8
>> seconds lag.
>>
>> As the title of my post says:
>>
>> YAY SOE!!!
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>
>> Keepers of Anchorhead,Bria
>>
>> Master Fencer, Master TK, Master Brawler Medic 3-2-1-0
>> Wielder of BRIA`s exceptional Acklay Bones Stun Baton(s)
>>
>>
>>
>> <dirk@dbx501.de>
>> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:59:22 +0200
>>
>> === Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
>
>
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 6:51:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

In article <IpQfd.3451$t23.488@trndny03>, No1uNo wrote:
> whine, whine, whine.... The feeling of entitlement kills me. If you don't
> like the game then quit.

Everything I recall seeing from you is stupidly top-posted, doesn't trim the
quoted material, and is nothing but bitching about other people's
complaints. What's the point?

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 11:13:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Get a new computer and a DSL or Cable line. While you are at it, get a
really good video card. Now stop complaining and play the game.


Girga Davom "The Dancing Smuggler"
Flurry Server
Master Smuggler/Dancer
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 2:55:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

nib wrote:

> Clawhound wrote:
>
>> Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the
>>> livegame with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
>>
>>
>>
>> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
>> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
>> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
>> of their list and usually fixed those problems.
>>
>> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
>> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to make.
>>
>> CH
>
>
> When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in JTL
> or do you mean to listen to the player base better?
>
> nib

JtL is a start, but not an end. Both JtL and the ground game really
still needs lots of fleshing out and detail work. If they build on those
bases consistantly, they can add lots of star-warsiness and storyline to
the game that the players can enjoy. Unfortunately, they focused on
large dungeons and big add-ins.

They do still have bug fixed to do in JtL. They were pushing publishes
that fixed 250 bugs during beta. They fixed a while lot. But, they could
not fix them all. The gamebreakers come first.

The gameplay itself still needs polishing. No plan survives contact with
the enemy. Likewise, no game survives contact with the player base.

They do need to improve communication. I've already seen them scrap the
original communication model to move to this current communication
model. Quite honestly, they are struggling as the corporate model
doesn't work here. What we have is a new sort of governence model
emerging, as the player base, in a player controlled economy, expects a
voice in governance. How do you give that?

Communication is better. Thunderheart and Tiggs really believe in their
jobs. But knowing what to communicate and when is the troublesome part.

In August, they actually brought all the player correspondents to Austin
for a meeting. That's unheard of in the MMORP world.

Finally, they still need to do work because they are working on a new
model of communication. Their old model just didn't work and they
admitted that.

CH
October 28, 2004 2:55:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
> nib wrote:
>
>> Clawhound wrote:
>>
>>> Dirk Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ignoring every bugreport or player comment, they patch up the
>>>> livegame with the totally bugged and LAGGY code that is runni
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
>>> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
>>> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the
>>> top of their list and usually fixed those problems.
>>>
>>> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
>>> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to
>>> make.
>>>
>>> CH
>>
>>
>>
>> When you say "they still have work to do" do you mean to fix bugs in
>> JTL or do you mean to listen to the player base better?
>>
>> nib
>
>
> JtL is a start, but not an end. Both JtL and the ground game really
> still needs lots of fleshing out and detail work. If they build on those
> bases consistantly, they can add lots of star-warsiness and storyline to
> the game that the players can enjoy. Unfortunately, they focused on
> large dungeons and big add-ins.
>
> They do still have bug fixed to do in JtL. They were pushing publishes
> that fixed 250 bugs during beta. They fixed a while lot. But, they could
> not fix them all. The gamebreakers come first.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant....I quit SWG the first time
because I felt like I was being made to pay a monthly fee while they
finished up the game (I was a DE). Now they're doing that again with
JTL? Bullshit. I'm tired of being a paying tester for MMORPGs because
they need to get the cashflow coming quicker.

I mean, come one, they're still promising an entire combat revamp! How
long has this game been out? They basically admit that combat is so
broken that they have to gut the entire thing and start over...yet I'm
paying $15/mo for this? (well, I'm really not since I canceled my account)

SWG was a great concept and had great potential but I think its problem
goes back to its original designer. His vision of SWG and the SWG
universe just didn't match but he tried to make it match...and he failed.

Oh well. I'll move on to another game yet again and see if someone can
finally get it right.

>
> The gameplay itself still needs polishing. No plan survives contact with
> the enemy. Likewise, no game survives contact with the player base.

That's what proper beta testing is for.

nib
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 3:00:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Haqsau wrote:

> I disagree. I have played since only a few weeks after the release, and I'm
> still not bored. I have not yet been to all the planets or done all the
> missions or mastered all the professions. Why? Because I only play about 2
> to 5 hours a week. Anybody who plays any game more than an hour or two a
> night is going to burn themselves out very quickly. Slow down and smell the
> roses, it's a fun game.
>
>
> "dak" <kpec090981@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JCNfd.18760$9b.1660@edtnps84...
>
>>I think you're right. SOE seems to totally ignore it's user community and
>>go off on their own agenda attempting to fix one thing - but breaking a few
>>more.
>>Unfortunately, there's very little longevity in the game. Anyone who's
>>played the game for a year or more will agree that there's very little new
>>or to do and are bored of it.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>

There's truth to that. The reason that SWG has little content is because
content is what you make of it. The designers considered each profession
content: they each change your play style. Grinding then went through
the content fast, then complained that they was no content.

SWG is a game equally about what you bring with you. People complain, "I
can't find things. It's a bad game." I go, "I'm on a self-assigned quest
to find a better stun baton." At the end of my quest, I have a more
powerful weapon. Whohoo. See, content. :) 

If you are only combat focused, this game eventually leaves you bored.
Combat is only part of the content.

Last night I followed ten treasure maps. I love these things. I'm
assembling a loot museum and they always provide loot!! Mind you, it's
cheap loot, but that's the idea.

CH
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 8:01:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

nib wrote:

> Clawhound wrote:
>
>
> That's what proper beta testing is for.
>
> nib

I think that beta testing could not find SWG's problem.

I find two types of people in gaming: those who consume content and
those to make content.

Those who consume content prefer games with heavier storylines and more
obvious goals. "Just show me where to go and what to do," they might
say. This is a majority of the population.

Those who make content prefer games with open-endedness, and often dump
the storyline and just play in whatever fashion they feel like. They
might say, "Storyline? I don't want no storyline. I don't need no
stinkin storyline." These are a minority of the population.

SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
completely different from the design idea of "content."

For those folks like me, who enjoy creating their own game, the game can
work, because it needs the imagination that I bring into the game.
Content is anything I haven't done yet, which meshes more closely with
the original design.

Now, Beta consisted mostly of SWG enthusiasts or Beta enthusiasts who
love making a game. They were creators. They brought this perspective to
the game play. For them, the style of game play worked. When this style
of game hit live, and consumers hit the game world, people suddenly
noticed that there was "nothing to do." And to this gaming style, there
really *IS* a lack of things to do, because their styles just don't see
the content, much like a football player in a library doesn't see all
the stories. It's not about what's there, it's about what engages you.

A second problem comes from the definition of "content." To the
consumers, most of whom are fight oriented, combat is content. To the
designers, each unique profession is a unique game style, and is
therefore unique content. Running a business in content. Finding new
equipment is content. Back-engineering the game math is content.
Organizing a guild is content. The population interprets this as WORK
that prevents them from fighting more.

Third, the long establish RPG style is the fight-loot-advance-buy play
style. This game breaks that game rhythm. It breaks the "contract" of
the game a forces them into play styles that they don't want. They only
want the FLAB play style, and they just aren't happy with any other play
style. In the long run, they'll take their money and go to a different
FLAB style game and be much happier.

Everquest is FLAB style gameplay.

SWG is more Organize, Develop, and Encounter. That's ODE style. Sims is
also ODE style. So is SimCity.

In Meyers-Briggs terms, this game is written for N type people, who are
a minority of the population. It was tested by N type people. It's
played by S type people. I think it's also P oriented, with all the
playing style changes that the content requires. The J's, who want to
play one and only one style, will change games rather than playing style.

If you want to write the perfect MMORP, you design for a IST*. (I) for
Introverted. Computer folks tend to prefer solo play. (S) for sensing,
or the preference for plain facts and obvious play. (T) for thinking, as
computer folks don't want a touch-feely experience. This leaves
exploration and changeability for (P) while also providing organizing
and template design for (J).

The trouble is is that the game designers are likely all (N) types and
just have a hard time designing for (S) types. And (S) types are likely
to get bored designing MMORPs.

Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
for the minority player base.

CH
October 28, 2004 8:03:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
>
> Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
> perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
> for the minority player base.
>
> CH

Everything you said above is all well and good, but doesn't deal with
the overriding point. All the content issues aside, the game was
released incomplete. Of the 32 professions, I'd guess that 1/2 of them
were either not finished or simply broken (DE being a prime example).
Yet, the game was released with the intention of SOE "getting to it"
later. The first time I quit was because after waiting for a couple
months for my DE profession to actually work, SOE came out and said that
they *knew* the DE profession was broken but it would be at least 3
months until they could get to it.

Now, in most games that might be something you can live with. However, I
was paying them $15/month! Right there, by their own admission, they
basically said "you need to pay an additional $45 before your chosen
profession will even be *looked at*". Doing some quick math, $50 for the
game, ~ $30 for the 3 months I had played (i.e. one free month) and now
another $45 until they started _looking_ at my profession? $125 before I
could start playing my chosen profession? No thanks.

So, how is that relevant to what's happening now? Well, from your own
words, JTL isn't finished. Basically, they didn't learn anything from
their original debacle. Once again, we're supposed to shell out another
$30 and play their broken game while they continue to "balance" and
"tweak" it since they'd rather get paid now instead of later. At least
they aren't raising the monthly fee for JTL, that'd be an even worse
slap in the face.

And, to add insult to injury, SOE has plainly stated that the combat
system is fubared enough to warrant an entire revamp, no? Yet, they put
that off until AFTER yet another expansion (which is also likely going
to have severe balancing issues that will need to be addressed)? Who the
hell are they kidding? Once again, the lowly old player is supposed to
keep paying their monthly fee until SOE can get around to addressing a
problem they admit is there.

Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire game
from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time sink. Bah!

nib
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 9:40:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:

> Wow. That was a longer response than I meant to write. But, that's my
> perspective, and where the trouble comes in. The game was just designed
> for the minority player base.
>
> CH

That was excellently said... all of it, not just the bit I left hehehe.

--
http://www.simplerich.com

Illegitimi non carborundum
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:05:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Reply to message from Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> (Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:01:
49) about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":

Wow, what a thread..Umh..what did i start..lol? First:
Right after posting my initial post i logged into swg and...WOW..all the
lag was gone.

YAY SOE (NOT sarcastic this time)...yay

I know they are doing their best to fix bugs. I have seen those servers
going up and down all the time and patching.

Now since lag is gone, heres a new list:

1. Downgrade everyone that cheat grinded his fs xp in the geo caves (yes,
me too)...same to all the jedi,who made their template there within days.

2. Delete all the "Bria-Fightclub" jedi council rank cheated ranks, that
prevent REAL players from entering those ranks. Like every jedi is master
and councilsomewhat here on bria..it is laughable. Btw SOE: contact me....i
give you names...i am SICK OF THIS!

3. Downgrade DoTs in PvP!!! They are needed, but NOT THAT STRONG. No sense
a DoT killing all your mind in 2 ticks.

4. Downgrade exceptional stuff (*cry* mine too..lol) and keep it more rare.
We looted 13 exceptional acklay bones...lol.

5. Punish (right word?) cheaters and exploiters where it hurts them really
bad.

6. FIX the droid-shows-jedi-offline-bug
...FIX IT QUICK..Cant be my brother is the only jedi on bria that is
visible to droids all the time...to believe in what Katlin says.

Fingers start hurting again..lol

Yours sincerely
Dirk Pfeiffer <KoAH>, Bria Master TK, Master Fencer, Master Brawler

P.S. Still enjoying the game!


C> Excuse me? I was in beta. They worked like heck to fix bugs in beta.
C> They consistantly listened to the community feedback. They made many
C> changes based on this feedback. They put the worst problems at the top
C> of their list and usually fixed those problems.

C> They still have work to do, but I saw them listen and learn. I wish
C> that we had more time for that dialogue, but they had a deadline to
C> make.

C> CH

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 12:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

nib wrote:

> Clawhound wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
> account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
> I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire game
> from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time sink. Bah!
>
> nib

Ah, I see.

For me, this is a cheap class on how to/not to implement a MMORP. By
definition, this keeps my attention. I wish that I had been in Beta and
seen more of it develop and go horribly wrong.

To me, JtL is a critical part of finishing the game. It's not Star Wars
without space ships. That much said, JtL will be declared completely
broken before December. Guaran-damn-teed.

CH
October 29, 2004 1:19:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
> nib wrote:
>
>> Clawhound wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but I'm not game for that. As I said earlier, I canceled my
>> account again, I'm not buying JTL and at this point, I don't know that
>> I'll bother coming back once they do the combat revamp. The entire
>> game from the foundation up is poorly done and nothing but a time
>> sink. Bah!
>>
>> nib
>
>
> Ah, I see.
>
> For me, this is a cheap class on how to/not to implement a MMORP. By
> definition, this keeps my attention. I wish that I had been in Beta and
> seen more of it develop and go horribly wrong.

LOL, well it is that. Assuming you take notes well it would be a great
education in what not to do. :D 

>
> To me, JtL is a critical part of finishing the game. It's not Star Wars
> without space ships. That much said, JtL will be declared completely
> broken before December. Guaran-damn-teed.

I do agree that Star Wars does need space ships. The sad thing is that
this game could have been the best of the bunch. But, frankly, I think
they were too ambitious.

nib

>
> CH
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 5:14:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Girga" <spam@scrapironworship.com> wrote in message
news:beba9447.0410280613.2d6e5734@posting.google.com...
> Get a new computer and a DSL or Cable line. While you are at it, get a
> really good video card. Now stop complaining and play the game.
>
>
> Girga Davom "The Dancing Smuggler"
> Flurry Server
> Master Smuggler/Dancer

My computer specs:

Athlon 64 3000+ running at 2.1 GHz
1 Gig of 3200 Corsair DDR RAM
GeForce FX 5600 with 256mb VRAM
SATA Drives
Cable Modem

Yet after the first publish of JTL with ALL graphic options at the lowest
possible setting, I was getting 2-4 frames per second, where I wasn't
getting any before with nearly highest graphic options going.

That has since been fixed by messing with my vertex shader version number in
the game, but still, don't act like an SOE employee when people talk about
new lag after a patch and blame it on their computer or their drivers.
October 29, 2004 5:37:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:04:15 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
><Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>It's not all about PVP pal.
>>
>>--
>
>Bravo!
>
>Well said!!!
>
Sony sells SWG as a pvp game so it is very much about pvp although
cant see why anyone would play the silly thing .
October 29, 2004 9:17:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:01:23 -0400, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
>alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
>what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
>this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
>completely different from the design idea of "content."

But you pay 15 dollars a month; sorry that makes you are a consumer
too.

Wow, hmm, I guess today I'll hone my "creator" skills. I will be going
to the theater today but instead having them project the movie, I'll
just look at the blank screen and make my own "content".

NeverWinter Nights is an example of a game where you bought it with
the understanding that you "created" your own "content". When you
bought the game you knew you could play it, but it was also designed
for you to "create" "content". Said so on the box.

If SWG was meant to be this sort of game, than I guess SOE perpetrated
a fraud, especially seeing how they managed to instantly alienate a
majority of the costumer base tells me they failed to communicate the
true nature of the game. Perhaps a warning label was needed like
"Creativity not included".
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 9:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Shane wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:01:23 -0400, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>SWG is designed for the creators, and not the consumers. This instantly
>>alienates a majority of the customer base. The game does not feed them
>>what they desire, and instead forces them to invent their game. To them,
>>this isn't fun. They want "content", but their idea of content is
>>completely different from the design idea of "content."
>
>
> But you pay 15 dollars a month; sorry that makes you are a consumer
> too.
>
> Wow, hmm, I guess today I'll hone my "creator" skills. I will be going
> to the theater today but instead having them project the movie, I'll
> just look at the blank screen and make my own "content".
>
> NeverWinter Nights is an example of a game where you bought it with
> the understanding that you "created" your own "content". When you
> bought the game you knew you could play it, but it was also designed
> for you to "create" "content". Said so on the box.
>
> If SWG was meant to be this sort of game, than I guess SOE perpetrated
> a fraud, especially seeing how they managed to instantly alienate a
> majority of the costumer base tells me they failed to communicate the
> true nature of the game. Perhaps a warning label was needed like
> "Creativity not included".

You demonstrate EXACTLY my point. You see no content!

SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You go
there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.

If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad or
unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.

As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.

CH
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 9:17:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound <none@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:4Bwgd.1768$Ny6.3008@mencken.net.nih.gov:

> SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
> it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
> Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You
> go there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.
>
> If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
> nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad
> or unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.
>
> As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.
>
> CH
>
Except the sand is dry and you can only make sanddunes from it using your
hands. If SOE really meant for player-created content, they should have
given tools and provided some water (or spice - it goes well with dunes
;) 

Neverwinter Nights has tools to create quests, dialogs, new content and
do GM work. There's next to nothing for GMs in SW:G. I mean for player
GMs - their "live" team definitely has tools to organize big events. But
since they are not going to give tools to players, it's SOE's job to
organize RP events, and that happens only occasionally.

The largest problem is that any events, whether totally player generated
or ones organized by SOE, have absolutely no effect on the persistent
world. Nada, zero, zilch, nil, etc. And that's in the world where civil
war is THE end game. Ever seen Bestine to turn into rebel city for a
prolonged period of time? I don't mean several hours. Ever had player
organized event where some action (say, posession of certain item) would
trigger a response in NPCs? Even Cries of Alderaan was such a primitive
thing... You would think that at least the result of it (whether rebels
or imperials collected and decifered more messages) would tilt the
standing on planets to one faction/side. At least for a month or so.
Smugglers couldn't roleplay really well because they could not
"smuggle." Even these imperial searches do not make it more interesting
since imperial-aligned players have no control over it. Imagine an
imperial factioned player in the colonel rank being able to order a squad
of stormtroopers to intensify search in certain area. Or something
similar. No such tools exist. Obviously because that will turn to
griefing in the wrong hands. Or will it?

It all comes down to how much control do you want to give to players.
SOE gave a lot with player-driven economy but stopped short in other
areas. The result is half-baked. That's what causes frustration. We
are not given content because we have some freedom to create our own.
But we are not given enough freedom to create quality contents. Oops!
So now the mentioning that players can create their own content becomes a
lame excuse for not providing one.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 9:17:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:

> You demonstrate EXACTLY my point. You see no content!
>
> SOE sells a sandbox to play in. It's a big, multiplayer sandbox, but
> it's a sandbox. HOW you play is easily as important as WHAT you play.
> Everquest is more like an amusement part, where you go on a ride. You go
> there for the variety of rides and you know what those rides are.
>
> If you go into a sandbox expecting an amusement park, you will find
> nothing. The game's a gyp! This doesn't mean that the sandbox is bad or
> unfinished. It's just a different way of playing.
>
> As a sandbox, SWG is among the most ambitious MMORPs out there.
>
> CH

IAWTP

--
http://www.simplerich.com

Illegitimi non carborundum
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 5:24:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:37:46 -0500, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:04:15 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:34:55 -0700, "Anthony Giampa"
>><Imperiai2@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It's not all about PVP pal.
>>>
>>>--
>>
>>Bravo!
>>
>>Well said!!!
>>
>Sony sells SWG as a pvp game so it is very much about pvp although
>cant see why anyone would play the silly thing .

Actually they market it as a MMORPG first and foremost.

What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
ilk.

Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????

If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
Realm??
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 12:17:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Reply to message from Skinner1@hotmail.com (Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:24:11)
about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":



S> What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
S> turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
S> ilk.

It IS already like that...Throw a poison, a disease and wait less than a
minute.

S> Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
S> trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????

S> If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
S> of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
S> those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
S> Realm??

and i don't like 3d shooters anyways..I have played them all since
Wolfenstein on the C-64. Know one, know all. Except the graphics getting
better with time.

Dirk



Bye
Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de> Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:02:31 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 12:17:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:17:40 +0200, Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de>
wrote:

>Reply to message from Skinner1@hotmail.com (Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:24:11)
>about "Re: YAY SOE !!!":
>
>
>
> S> What pisses me off is the demand for a game of this complexity to be
> S> turned into a run and gun kind of PvP game like Unreal Tourney or that
> S> ilk.
>
>It IS already like that...Throw a poison, a disease and wait less than a
>minute.
>
> S> Man, if that were the basis for this thing then why go to all the
> S> trouble of developing a super complex crafting system anyway? Huh????
>
> S> If people want that kind of game why don;t they just go play UT or one
> S> of the other first person shooters and leave these kinds of games to
> S> those who want to create a character with a Virtual life on a Virtual
> S> Realm??
>
>and i don't like 3d shooters anyways..I have played them all since
>Wolfenstein on the C-64. Know one, know all. Except the graphics getting
>better with time.
>
>Dirk
>

Precisely. I have done some very un-sophisticated polls of people...
and through my own observations between this game for a year+ now and
over 5 years playing Ultima Online, the other major PvP allowing game
and I am convinced that 90% of the people that play these games could
care less about PvP!

Yet the die hard PvP faction continues to try to force the issue at
every turn. And it's getting VERY Frustrating!
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 12:32:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Alexei Boukirev wrote:

>
> It all comes down to how much control do you want to give to players.
> SOE gave a lot with player-driven economy but stopped short in other
> areas. The result is half-baked. That's what causes frustration. We
> are not given content because we have some freedom to create our own.
> But we are not given enough freedom to create quality contents. Oops!
> So now the mentioning that players can create their own content becomes a
> lame excuse for not providing one.

Very good point. That's where the game is lacking.

CH
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 12:43:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Shane wrote:


>
> If you want to pay 15 bucks to do all of SOE's heavy lifting, fine,
> but don't wrap it in some half ass philosophy based on what you think
> you know of "people". It's sounds like the bad college coffeehouse
> conversation that used to go on when I was at the university where
> these students (who had read a few philosophy, sociology, political
> ideology books) would pontificate on societal problems and why the
> masses just "don't get it" and only if they were as "educated" us and
> could see the ambition of what society they wanted to create. Your
> better off tossing that philosophy away and just sticking to real
> world pragmatism, it will get you farther in life.
>

Real world pragmatism is that some people have different opinions of
fun. I don't see fun in football, but lot of other people do. I won't
waste my money, and they are glad to attend the games.

In the same way, some folks will enjoy SWG as designed, and others
won't. Same game. Different experiences.

And yes, I happily admit that the game as problems. Its main problem is
that it's designed for a minority playing style and a casual playing
style. This was my point earlier.

CH
!