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Cost of playing online

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Anonymous
October 28, 2004 11:48:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Hi,

I have never played this game so have no idea what is involved.

Do others think that, with the alleged 500 000 paying players, $14 US is a
fair price to pay every month?

I posed that question to those in charge but got no response. Even if only
100 000 people were paid up members, that is $1.4 million every month!
Surely they don't need that many technicians to watch over the
software/hardware?

Any thoughts?

Manfred

More about : cost playing online

October 28, 2004 1:04:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Manfred Knorr wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have never played this game so have no idea what is involved.
>
> Do others think that, with the alleged 500 000 paying players, $14 US is a
> fair price to pay every month?
>
> I posed that question to those in charge but got no response. Even if only
> 100 000 people were paid up members, that is $1.4 million every month!
> Surely they don't need that many technicians to watch over the
> software/hardware?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Manfred
>
>

Uh...Pardon my bluntness here but who the hell are you to question what
they charge? You either accept $14/mo and play the game or you don't. It
isn't your business how much money they make.

God this post pisses me off on so many levels.

nib
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 2:18:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Manfred Knorr wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have never played this game so have no idea what is involved.
>
> Do others think that, with the alleged 500 000 paying players, $14 US is a
> fair price to pay every month?
>
> I posed that question to those in charge but got no response. Even if only
> 100 000 people were paid up members, that is $1.4 million every month!
> Surely they don't need that many technicians to watch over the
> software/hardware?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Manfred
>
>

They invested millions on this project. (I'd figure, 12 million a year
for three years development, as a complete guess.) So figure that a
million profit per month means 36 months before they see black.

No, $15/month is not outrageous.

CH
Related resources
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 8:22:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

> God this post pisses me off on so many levels.
>
> nib

LMAO
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:40:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:39:44 -0500, "Strontium" <abuse@your.isp.com>
wrote:

>They probably shell out about 100k a month, on the developers and other
>staff. Can't say that the devs are worth that much....
>
>-
>Manfred Knorr stood up at show-n-tell, in
>5v1gd.1523$K7.427@news-server.bigpond.net.au, and said:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have never played this game so have no idea what is involved.
>>
>> Do others think that, with the alleged 500 000 paying players, $14 US
>> is a fair price to pay every month?
>>
>> I posed that question to those in charge but got no response. Even if
>> only 100 000 people were paid up members, that is $1.4 million every
>> month! Surely they don't need that many technicians to watch over the
>> software/hardware?
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Manfred

I am betting that they shell out a lot more than that. Most major
corporations operate at a 14%-21% GROSS margin and *IF* lucky at a
5%-10% NET profit.

If those numbers hold true then they are keeping perhaps $525,000
Profit after expenses a month *IF* they have 500K subscribers and *IF*
they are turning a 7.5% GROSS profit.

That's 6.3 million a year. The original Star Wars movie did MORE than
that on it's FIRST DAY of VIDEO sales!
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:42:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Well nib, I take it you are a shareholder of Sony? I can see no other
reason why you would get pissed off about it. At any rate, I was after
constructive comments, like Clawhound's for instance.

As for who am I to question, I am a potentional customer, and have every
right to question the cost. Just like when I buy a pair of jeans. If they
are made in China I expect them to be considerably lower that those made
locally, otherwise some big nob is making big profits for no reason, not to
mention putting local jobs at risk.

Only a fool would pay more than something is worth, in my opinion anyway.

Manfred


"nib" <individual_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2ucckuF29ri0aU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Manfred Knorr wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have never played this game so have no idea what is involved.
>>
>> Do others think that, with the alleged 500 000 paying players, $14 US is
>> a fair price to pay every month?
>>
>> I posed that question to those in charge but got no response. Even if
>> only 100 000 people were paid up members, that is $1.4 million every
>> month! Surely they don't need that many technicians to watch over the
>> software/hardware?
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Manfred
>
> Uh...Pardon my bluntness here but who the hell are you to question what
> they charge? You either accept $14/mo and play the game or you don't. It
> isn't your business how much money they make.
>
> God this post pisses me off on so many levels.
>
> nib
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:42:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

<SNIP>

You have to put this in relation to other products and the
satisfaction level you get from them.

14 Bucks can buy you what these days?

Hummm, Maybe a pair of Jeans at WalMart? You will probably spend that
much on lunch for say three days if you eat the laxiatives doled out
by the fast food chains these days. OR, it might be a pretty fair sit
down dinner one night unless you live in a big city where it costs you
that much just to GET TO the resturaunt....

When you put it in perspective like that and judge the satisfaction
you get from other products that will cost you the same money you can
get a better idea of what the value SHOULD be.

Now, whether you will like the game depends on how big a whiner you
are!
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:42:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Manfred Knorr" <mknorr@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1wmgd.2640$K7.2474@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Only a fool would pay more than something is worth, in my opinion anyway.

15 bones a month is very fair with the long term entertainment value that
some of these online games provide.

If you can't afford 15 bucks, less then a carton of cigarettes if you are a
smoker, a large pizza etc.. seriously, get a better paying job.
October 29, 2004 1:17:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Manfred Knorr wrote:
> Well nib, I take it you are a shareholder of Sony? I can see no other
> reason why you would get pissed off about it. At any rate, I was after
> constructive comments, like Clawhound's for instance.
>
> As for who am I to question, I am a potentional customer, and have every
> right to question the cost. Just like when I buy a pair of jeans. If they
> are made in China I expect them to be considerably lower that those made
> locally, otherwise some big nob is making big profits for no reason, not to
> mention putting local jobs at risk.
>
> Only a fool would pay more than something is worth, in my opinion anyway.
>
> Manfred
>
>

What ticked me off was that you question how much money Sony should be
_making_. Had you simply asked if $15/mo was a "fair price" I wouldn't
have cared. But that's not how you phrased it. You basically took it
upon yourself to decide how much money sony should be making in profits.

I'm not sure if you're from the US or not but it is your mentality, IMO,
that is killing the US (and has already destroyed many other countries).
This mentality that companies should only make X dollars is just wrong.
Even if they are making money hand over fist, so what? THEY took the
risk, THEY risked losing millions, THEY put up millions developing the
game before they ever made a penny. Until you decide to risk losing your
millions on a game, you have NO RIGHT to question their profits! It is
that exact mentality that kills the pharmaceutical industry. Yes, they
make tons of money on the drugs that they do sell, but that doesn't
account for the millions they spend researching dozens of drugs that
never make it to the market, or the millions they spend in lawsuits when
after 10 years some drug has some crazy side effect. Basically, I'm just
sick of people coming down on corporations for making money. They seem
to forget that corporations EMPLOY PEOPLE.

Didn't mean to turn this into a semi-political rant, but *shrug*.

nib
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:35:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Bob Perez" <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote in message
news:w7idnfAgTc_XYxzcRVn-vA@comcast.com...
>
> "Manfred Knorr" <mknorr@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:1wmgd.2640$K7.2474@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> Only a fool would pay more than something is worth, in my opinion anyway.
>
> 15 bones a month is very fair with the long term entertainment value that
> some of these online games provide.
>
> If you can't afford 15 bucks, less then a carton of cigarettes if you are
> a smoker, a large pizza etc.. seriously, get a better paying job.
>lol. That is true Bob :-) I am just trying to find out if this is for me. I
>don't want to go out and buy the game, then find it does nothing for me.
>Thanks for the reply.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 5:12:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

<Skinner1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2k74o05lptq1o4cli1e4o6m0nkm34h85qo@4ax.com...
> <SNIP>
>
> You have to put this in relation to other products and the
> satisfaction level you get from them.
>
> 14 Bucks can buy you what these days?
>
> Hummm, Maybe a pair of Jeans at WalMart? You will probably spend that
> much on lunch for say three days if you eat the laxiatives doled out
> by the fast food chains these days. OR, it might be a pretty fair sit
> down dinner one night unless you live in a big city where it costs you
> that much just to GET TO the resturaunt....
>
> When you put it in perspective like that and judge the satisfaction
> you get from other products that will cost you the same money you can
> get a better idea of what the value SHOULD be.
>
> Now, whether you will like the game depends on how big a whiner you
> are!
>
>Hehehe, well, I have been told my patience aint what it used to be :-P I
>might try and find a demo of the game. That should satisfy my curiosity.
>Thank you Skinner for the perspective thing. I see your point. Perhaps I
>was a bit hasty in my first post.

Manfred
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 2:23:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"nib" <individual_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2uf1pkF29g6nbU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Manfred Knorr wrote:
>> Well nib, I take it you are a shareholder of Sony? I can see no other
>> reason why you would get pissed off about it. At any rate, I was after
>> constructive comments, like Clawhound's for instance.
>>
>> As for who am I to question, I am a potentional customer, and have every
>> right to question the cost. Just like when I buy a pair of jeans. If they
>> are made in China I expect them to be considerably lower that those made
>> locally, otherwise some big nob is making big profits for no reason, not
>> to
>> mention putting local jobs at risk.
>>
>> Only a fool would pay more than something is worth, in my opinion anyway.
>>
>> Manfred
>>
>>
>
> What ticked me off was that you question how much money Sony should be
> _making_. Had you simply asked if $15/mo was a "fair price" I wouldn't
> have cared. But that's not how you phrased it. You basically took it upon
> yourself to decide how much money sony should be making in profits.
>
> I'm not sure if you're from the US or not but it is your mentality, IMO,
> that is killing the US (and has already destroyed many other countries).
> This mentality that companies should only make X dollars is just wrong.
> Even if they are making money hand over fist, so what? THEY took the risk,
> THEY risked losing millions, THEY put up millions developing the game
> before they ever made a penny. Until you decide to risk losing your
> millions on a game, you have NO RIGHT to question their profits! It is
> that exact mentality that kills the pharmaceutical industry. Yes, they
> make tons of money on the drugs that they do sell, but that doesn't
> account for the millions they spend researching dozens of drugs that never
> make it to the market, or the millions they spend in lawsuits when after
> 10 years some drug has some crazy side effect. Basically, I'm just sick of
> people coming down on corporations for making money. They seem to forget
> that corporations EMPLOY PEOPLE.
>
> Didn't mean to turn this into a semi-political rant, but *shrug*.
>
> nib

Nib, you are right about the risk factor. I guess my initial post may have
been rather simplistic and not well thought out. In hindsight, it should
have been worded as you suggested.

Thank you for that post.

It is always amazing to me how quickly you can make an opinion of someone
from an e-mail or post. It can be hard to bring across any sort of emotion
etc, unless you chose your words very carefully. (OK, I can be a bit of a
jerk at times :-P )

BTW, I am from Australia. Pleased to meet you all. :-)

Manfred
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 3:14:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

: What ticked me off was that yov qvestion how mvch money Sony shovld be
: _making_. Had yov simply asked if $15/mo was a "fair price" I wovldn't
: have cared. Bvt that's not how yov phrased it. Yov basically took it
: vpon yovrself to decide how mvch money sony shovld be making in profits.
:
: I'm not svre if yov're from the US or not bvt it is yovr mentality, IMO,
: that is killing the US (and has already destroyed many other covntries).
: This mentality that companies shovld only make X dollars is jvst wrong.
: Even if they are making money hand over fist, so what? THEY took the
: risk, THEY risked losing millions, THEY pvt vp millions developing the
: game before they ever made a penny. Until yov decide to risk losing yovr
: millions on a game, yov have NO RIGHT to qvestion their profits! It is
: that exact mentality that kills the pharmacevtical indvstry. Yes, they
: make tons of money on the drvgs that they do sell, bvt that doesn't
: accovnt for the millions they spend researching dozens of drvgs that
: never make it to the market, or the millions they spend in lawsvits when
: after 10 years some drvg has some crazy side effect. Basically, I'm jvst
: sick of people coming down on corporations for making money. They seem
: to forget that corporations EMPLOY PEOPLE.
:
: Didn't mean to tvrn this into a semi-political rant, bvt *shrvg*.
:
: nib

With respect I beg to differ. This it what vnions, and fair wages, and the
cost of living is all abovt. It's a tightly nit package. Don't believe me?
Look at ENRON. Prime example of needing to qvestion how mvch money a company is
making AND where it's going. Slightly skewed example bvt still valid.


Look at the recording indvstry. They regvlarly screw artists ovt of
royalties and things they are entitled to. Be carefvl what company yov tvrn a
blind eye to, becvase the fact of the matter is they are ovt to FUCK yov ovt of
everything can get. Who cares how mvch money they make? I do, becavse with all
the problems in the game I qvestion whether or not I'm getting my money's worth.

I pay SOE for services and I expect a retvrn for those services, if those
services are not worth the valve of the charge, then I have reason to qvestion.
What if SOE qvit right now and took yovr svbscription money with em? Wovld yov
qvestion then? Plenty of reasons why a person can, and shovld qvestion how mvch
money a company is making, and more importantly where that money is going.
October 30, 2004 3:14:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Kalheka wrote:
> With respect I beg to differ. This it what vnions, and fair
wages, and the
> cost of living is all abovt.

This has nothing to do with anything related to what we're talking abovt.


It's a tightly nit package. Don't believe me?
> Look at ENRON. Prime example of needing to qvestion how mvch money a company is
> making AND where it's going. Slightly skewed example bvt still valid.

Skewed and irrelevant to the conversation.

>
>
> Look at the recording indvstry. They regvlarly screw artists ovt of
> royalties and things they are entitled to. Be carefvl what company yov tvrn a
> blind eye to, becvase the fact of the matter is they are ovt to FUCK yov ovt of
> everything can get.

And yov aren't? Yov're not going to jvmp ship for the next best thing as
soon as yov find it? Yov have less loyalties to them than they have to
yov. As to the recording indvstry, again, has nothing to do with what
we're talking abovt.

> Who cares how mvch money they make? I do, becavse with all
> the problems in the game I qvestion whether or not I'm getting my money's worth.

Whether yov feel like yov're getting yovr money's worth or not has
absolvtely NO bearing on what they make in profits. Nothing. Yov know,
free market and all that.

>
> I pay SOE for services and I expect a retvrn for those services, if those
> services are not worth the valve of the charge, then I have reason to qvestion.

Yov can qvestion whether yov want to keep paying all yov want, again,
that has nothing to do with qvestioning how mvch PROFIT SOE makes.

> What if SOE qvit right now and took yovr svbscription money with em?
> Wovld yov
> qvestion then?

That's also an entirely different issve.

> Plenty of reasons why a person can, and shovld qvestion how mvch
> money a company is making, and more importantly where that money is going.
>

No, again, it isn't yovr place to qvestion HOW MUCH they are making. YOv
can qvestion what they charge and whether yov feel that it is worth it
to yov.


>

--
nib
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 11:47:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"nib" <individval_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2vhoa4F29pvj2U1@vni-berlin.de...
:
:
: Kalheka wrote:
: > With respect I beg to differ. This it what vnions, and fair
: wages, and the
: > cost of living is all abovt.
:
: This has nothing to do with anything related to what we're talking abovt.

And yovr example of pharmacevtical companies does? It's very mvch related
becvaes yov made a blanket statement abovt consvmers having no rights to
qvestion what companies are doing with their money. Yov didn't say SOE
specifically.
:
:
: It's a tightly nit package. Don't believe me?
: > Look at ENRON. Prime example of needing to qvestion how mvch money a
company is
: > making AND where it's going. Slightly skewed example bvt still valid.
:
: Skewed and irrelevant to the conversation.
:
Again relevant simply becavse its another company yov say we have no right to
qvestion. ENRON is a perfect example of corporate ppl not being watched and
qvestioned, and now the company is gvtted financially and thovsands of workers
have been screwed ovt of retirement benefits and many more things that they
worked hard for.

: >
: >
: > Look at the recording indvstry. They regvlarly screw artists ovt of
: > royalties and things they are entitled to. Be carefvl what company yov tvrn
a
: > blind eye to, becvase the fact of the matter is they are ovt to FUCK yov ovt
of
: > everything can get.
:
: And yov aren't? Yov're not going to jvmp ship for the next best thing as
: soon as yov find it? Yov have less loyalties to them than they have to
: yov. As to the recording indvstry, again, has nothing to do with what
: we're talking abovt.
:
No I'm not. I don't operate that way, not abovt mvsic

: > Who cares how mvch money they make? I do, becavse with all
: > the problems in the game I qvestion whether or not I'm getting my money's
worth.
:
: Whether yov feel like yov're getting yovr money's worth or not has
: absolvtely NO bearing on what they make in profits. Nothing. Yov know,
: free market and all that.
:
: >
: > I pay SOE for services and I expect a retvrn for those services, if
those
: > services are not worth the valve of the charge, then I have reason to
qvestion.
:
: Yov can qvestion whether yov want to keep paying all yov want, again,
: that has nothing to do with qvestioning how mvch PROFIT SOE makes.
:
: > What if SOE qvit right now and took yovr svbscription money with em?
: > Wovld yov
: > qvestion then?
:
: That's also an entirely different issve.
:
: > Plenty of reasons why a person can, and shovld qvestion how mvch
: > money a company is making, and more importantly where that money is going.
: >
:
: No, again, it isn't yovr place to qvestion HOW MUCH they are making. YOv
: can qvestion what they charge and whether yov feel that it is worth it
: to yov.
:

How can yov say that when what they charge directly relates to how mvch they are
making? Granted they have overhead issves and invested costs, bvt vltimately
that sovrce of income came from consvmers who paid for goods and services.
:
: >
:
: --
: nib
October 30, 2004 11:47:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Kalheka wrote:
> "nib" <individval_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
> news:2vhoa4F29pvj2U1@vni-berlin.de...
> :
> :
> : Kalheka wrote:
> : > With respect I beg to differ. This it what vnions, and fair
> : wages, and the
> : > cost of living is all abovt.
> :
> : This has nothing to do with anything related to what we're talking abovt.
>
> And yovr example of pharmacevtical companies does? It's very mvch related
> becvaes yov made a blanket statement abovt consvmers having no rights to
> qvestion what companies are doing with their money. Yov didn't say SOE
> specifically.

Yes, I did mention pharmacevticals in a very specific context.
Basically, in regard to the original posters comment that he felt that
sony was making too mvch money based on his ingeniovs dedvctive
reasoning that 15x500,000 = 7.5 million a month and that was obviovsly
more money than sony needs. Fact is, there is a ton more cost to SWG
than what they're spending right now maintaining it. He failed to
consider the 3 years of development, etc.

> :
> :
> : It's a tightly nit package. Don't believe me?
> : > Look at ENRON. Prime example of needing to qvestion how mvch money a
> company is
> : > making AND where it's going. Slightly skewed example bvt still valid.
> :
> : Skewed and irrelevant to the conversation.
> :
> Again relevant simply becavse its another company yov say we have no right to
> qvestion. ENRON is a perfect example of corporate ppl not being watched and
> qvestioned, and now the company is gvtted financially and thovsands of workers
> have been screwed ovt of retirement benefits and many more things that they
> worked hard for.

So yov're making the leap from someone saying that they somehow know
that Sony is making too mvch money to a corporation that broke the law
and got cavght? We're talking abovt two different things. I've never
said that corporations didn't need oversight. I simply said that we have
no right to qvestion their profit margin. In other words, we have no
right to qvestion sony charging 15/mo for their service. Yov either like
it or yov don't. That is entirely separate from whether sony is doing
something illegal to their books to change the financial sitvation of
the company. See the difference here? I'm talking abovt someone making
some ignorant vninformed jvdgment abovt whether or not sony is making
too mvch money.

>
> : >
> : >
> : > Look at the recording indvstry. They regvlarly screw artists ovt of
> : > royalties and things they are entitled to. Be carefvl what company yov tvrn
> a
> : > blind eye to, becvase the fact of the matter is they are ovt to FUCK yov ovt
> of
> : > everything can get.
> :
> : And yov aren't? Yov're not going to jvmp ship for the next best thing as
> : soon as yov find it? Yov have less loyalties to them than they have to
> : yov. As to the recording indvstry, again, has nothing to do with what
> : we're talking abovt.
> :
> No I'm not. I don't operate that way, not abovt mvsic

Yov have loyalties to specific record companies? That's odd.

>
> : > Who cares how mvch money they make? I do, becavse with all
> : > the problems in the game I qvestion whether or not I'm getting my money's
> worth.
> :
> : Whether yov feel like yov're getting yovr money's worth or not has
> : absolvtely NO bearing on what they make in profits. Nothing. Yov know,
> : free market and all that.
> :
> : >
> : > I pay SOE for services and I expect a retvrn for those services, if
> those
> : > services are not worth the valve of the charge, then I have reason to
> qvestion.
> :
> : Yov can qvestion whether yov want to keep paying all yov want, again,
> : that has nothing to do with qvestioning how mvch PROFIT SOE makes.
> :
> : > What if SOE qvit right now and took yovr svbscription money with em?
> : > Wovld yov
> : > qvestion then?
> :
> : That's also an entirely different issve.
> :
> : > Plenty of reasons why a person can, and shovld qvestion how mvch
> : > money a company is making, and more importantly where that money is going.
> : >
> :
> : No, again, it isn't yovr place to qvestion HOW MUCH they are making. YOv
> : can qvestion what they charge and whether yov feel that it is worth it
> : to yov.
> :
>
> How can yov say that when what they charge directly relates to how mvch they are
> making?

I can say that becavse sony's margin of profit is irrelevant to me. I
base my decision on whether or not I want to pay 15/month to play the
game. I don't care if they net 1 million a year or 100 million a year.
Doesn't bother me. What makes yov think yov have the right to decide how
mvch is too mvch profit? What is too mvch profit anyway? 1 million? 10
million? Yov realize that Sony's profits go back into the bvsiness and
will be vsed to do things like, oh, I don't know, make yet another
MMORPG. Profit is NOT a bad thing! The desire to make profit is what
gives people jobs, what creates innovation, what creates efficiency,
what creates new and fvn games for vs to play. It is all done in the
name of seeking more and more profit.


nib
October 31, 2004 10:55:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Manfred Knorr wrote:
> Hi Rich,
>
> My idea of profit is that money left over after all expenses, re investments
> etc.

realize that after paying shareholders, profits get reinvested back into
the company. What does reinvesting in the company mean? It means
expansion, employment, higher wages, etc. Companies don't normally just
sit on the liquid cash of large profits, it doesn't get them anything.

>
> I think it was last year that the boss of Telstra announced the biggest
> corporate profit is Australian history.
> In the very next sentence, he announced that 10 000 jobs were to go! That is
> what really shits me about big corporations. "Lets make profit at all cost"
> is simply wrong! .We are human beings and should treat every one with
> respect. The boss of Telstra. and many others I am sure, have no respect for
> their employees or their families. To them it's just a game, the winner is
> the one that makes the biggest profit.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions in what you just typed. Not
surprising though, if you assume the news media is giving you a clear
picture of the facts.

First of all, I don't know a thing about Telstra, other than a quick
search showing it to be an Internet/cell phone company, which has taken
a beating the last few years, no?

Secondly, like I said in another post, being able to point to a handful
of specific examples of poor corporation decisions doesn't mean that
"all" or even "most" are that way.

And thirdly, you have no idea why they laid off 10,000 people. Perhaps
the company was in extreme debt in which case, if they didn't layoff
people they'd go bankrupt, then how many people would be unemployed?
Furthermore, at least in the tech industry, there is a little known
process that goes on behind the scenes. When you read the big headlines
like "IBM Lays off 10k" or "AT&T lays off 15k", it rarely is followed up
with "and is hiring back 80% of them via contracting! In civilized
countries like Australia and the US, it costs a lot of money to have a
full-time employee. Not to mention, it is terribly expensive to fire
them (even due to their incompetence). However, if your employees are
contractors, you save a lot of money in health care costs (the
contracting firm covers those) and, more importantly, you can get rid of
the bad hires quickly and safely (i.e. no lawsuits) which is much much
cheaper than actually hiring them yourself and then having to fire (i.e.
no 2-week compensation). This happens ALL THE TIME in the tech industry.

nib
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 12:51:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

<snip all of the above very interesting and enjoyable posts>
Since this seemed to start the debate, I thought I'd add a few more
words. Yes, I think the people who do not understand business in this
discussion likely are younger. And not un-intelligent, merely ignorant.
Anyways, my point was, if you don't like paying for it, don't. Sony
hopefully makes a profit to continue to develop this and other games. I
expect they do, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. And as far as the
evil shareholders go (I own no stock of any sort), the evil shareholder
might possible be your father or grandfather's pension fund. And
managed by people who want to be able to show their pension fund members
that they will have retirement money. "Shareholder" is not an automatic
evil label. Noone is being forced to buy the game, it is not a monopoly,
move on if you don't like the company, price, or product. And if you
decide to pay for the game, go ahead and complain about how the game is
being developed. That is a legit reason to post complaints. You are then
a paying customer who wants to register an opinion. And maybe they will
listen :) 
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 10:43:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

> I'm curious, and I'm asking this sincerely, how old are you? You honestly
> sound like you're no older than 18 or 19 and haven't quite gotten to the
> point where you see how corporations really work. This isn't a slam on you
> or your age, I'm just trying to figure out where your view of corporations
> as being so evil.
>

I refuse to answer any more questions as it may incriminate me :-P

Now I will go get me a shovel and dig me a big hole :-P
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 3:34:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"nib" <individual_news@nibsworld.com> wrote in message
news:2uicm7F2b9ol7U1@uni-berlin.de...
:
<snipped>

I will not waste either of our time trying to break this argument down any
further here, the post is becoming too long to try to respond to each point.

I will concede that there are times when consumers should stick their nose out
of a company's profit margin. But you DID make a blanket statement to the
effect that nobody has a right nor reason to ever question a company's profit
margin. I simply respectfully disagreed and then tried to offer specific points
and times abuse has taken place because nobody was watching.

There are times, like you mentioned in the other part of this thread were
regulation should occur, that was all I was trying to say. :) 
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 3:44:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"baegucb" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:41850920$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
: <snip all of the above very interesting and enjoyable posts>
: Since this seemed to start the debate, I thought I'd add a few more
: words. Yes, I think the people who do not understand business in this
: discussion likely are younger. And not un-intelligent, merely ignorant.
: Anyways, my point was, if you don't like paying for it, don't. Sony
: hopefully makes a profit to continue to develop this and other games. I
: expect they do, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. And as far as the
: evil shareholders go (I own no stock of any sort), the evil shareholder
: might possible be your father or grandfather's pension fund. And
: managed by people who want to be able to show their pension fund members
: that they will have retirement money. "Shareholder" is not an automatic
: evil label. Noone is being forced to buy the game, it is not a monopoly,
: move on if you don't like the company, price, or product. And if you
: decide to pay for the game, go ahead and complain about how the game is
: being developed. That is a legit reason to post complaints. You are then
: a paying customer who wants to register an opinion. And maybe they will
: listen :) 

I'm 31, I'm not a child, and not stupid, and not ignorant. I simply believe in
the self-interested nature of the people I come in contact with on a daily
basis, and fully understand the mentality of companies who do in fact pursue a
bottom-line-at-all-expense philosophy. Happens every day. the bad apples we
see on the tele are but a ripple in the pond and just the few that get caught.

That's not to say there aren't honest and decent people out there, or even
honest and decent businesses. It's just to say that most are far more
interested in pursuing money than they are in human rights, etc., etc. You may
not want to believe it, but I've seen it first hand.
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 6:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Manfred Knorr" <mknorr@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:9fbhd.5714$K7.28@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > I'm curious, and I'm asking this sincerely, how old are you? You
honestly
> > sound like you're no older than 18 or 19 and haven't quite gotten to the
> > point where you see how corporations really work. This isn't a slam on
you
> > or your age, I'm just trying to figure out where your view of
corporations
> > as being so evil.
> >
>
> I refuse to answer any more questions as it may incriminate me :-P
>
> Now I will go get me a shovel and dig me a big hole :-P

Buy the game. Become a crafter. You will learn more than you ever wanted
to about production (and costs of), facilities (and costs of), inventory,
profit margins, advertising, and the importance of LOCATION, LOCATION,
LOCATION!
November 1, 2004 6:00:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Tom Carman wrote:
> Buy the game. Become a crafter. You will learn more than you ever
wanted
> to about production (and costs of), facilities (and costs of), inventory,
> profit margins, advertising, and the importance of LOCATION, LOCATION,
> LOCATION!
>
>

LOL! And you'll learn about demanding, whinny customers!

nib
!