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XFX and the BBB.org and class action?

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December 26, 2008 6:02:23 AM

As all of you know I and several others have been working on getting some of our new XFX 780i boards replace for not posting and a few that were shipped RMA with bad cpu pins and voltage rail issues. XFX is doing all the can to blame it on other issues but all 10 of us have been given the same BS in the end. If it is any hardware issue at all XFX or (Pine Tech) or EVGA or
Eastcom, Inc. (there real name in the usa)
1931 Lynx Place
Ontario, CA 91761
Contact: Dumas, Ryan
Phone: (909) 230-9800

So we are thinking of getting all the users that have a current harware issue and doing a classaction suit to only get the products fixed and cost of suit. This would apply to there whole line of products and we can prove that 1 out of ever 20 boards will not post correct. In the usa that is more than what it takes to prove a defective product. Now it uses electric current and most show huge voltage issues. (the non posting one's) and can even make current video cards have issues along with memory and heat issues.
ECS and Foxcome have better support than XFX and EVGA or ? name they are using right now. This is the same issue that Pine had with the Gforce 3 cards a time back. That is when the two new name were registed in the usa. But we do not care about that. All we care about is getting the current bad or junk boards RMA or changed out with factory new products with out current issues. We are located in Georgia and if there is enough support on this issue for getting your boards fixed we will start the case.
Please keep in mind this is not a case to get you or us money. Only to get you what you though you were buying in the store. You will need to have your receipt. Age of product will not matter only model # and form of issue with the motherboard or card.
We will keep all suits open for public view and keep your names hidden from public eyes. Selling users a crap produt and hidding there real mfg name is wrong. Selling a product that could burn down a home is more wrong. Not wanting to fix the electric issues is just illegal! We have a senitors support and a new bill in to law as of this month.

AB 1860 fills these critical gaps in the law by requiring the removal of recalled toys and other recalled consumer products from the marketplace when those products pose a safety risk. AB 1860 would also prohibit the sale of recalled products, and to prevent the items from surfacing on the Internet or at second-hand stores, it would impose stiff fines against those who sell recalled products. In addition, the bill requires proper disposal of recalled products, posting of recall notices on manufacturer websites and in stores, and a notification system whereby customers can be better alerted to product recalls that affect them.
AB 1860 will hold manufacturers and retailers accountable for removing dangerous products from the marketplace, thereby protecting consumers from unknowingly harming themselves or their families even if they are a china based MFG. Import with holding for non support of a defective item sold in the USA.
If a motherboard is not working right out of the box or does not function like they state. They or the MFG need to repair or replace the product for saftey issues.
By not supporting there own guarentee you are out of luck if there product dammages another product you pluged into there product.
Most MFG will repair or replace a product that a customer has a issue with. But it seems XFX is trying to test how far a gamer will go and hope he says he over clocked it or some word he might use to let them get out od fixing or replacing the defective product. Please post your open re-ply to this and tell me if you think I sould push them for all gamers!
We do not have to take BS when it comes to a faulty product! After all they are pushing there product top hard core games not stupid hard core gamers!
Toadworks
a b V Motherboard
December 26, 2008 7:22:58 PM

toadworks said:
As all of you know...

Well no, this is pretty much news to all of us.

I found it curious that you were advocating a recent law in California which would "prohibit the sale of recalled products, and to prevent the items from surfacing on the Internet or at second-hand stores, it would impose stiff fines against those who sell recalled products", which clearly did not seem to fit the circumstances here at all. XFX motherboards have not been the subject of any product recall, so why would this be relevant to your situation?

Unless you know something about this motherboard that you are not telling us? Something like, you purchased it from Fry's Electronics at discounted price as an open-box return with no manufacturer warranty? I feel kind of sorry for you at this point, because it is obvious that your intelligence is very low. You were caught red-handed by your own photographs that you offered as 'documentation' of this so-called manufacturer defect.

In this photograph, the XFX motherboard box CLEARLY shows tell-tale signs it has been re-taped or re-closed using adhesive labels of the kind typically used on open-box items (and never used on new sealed items):

Looky inside the red circle

Now I see the connection to 'reselling recalled products'. You want XFX to be on the hook because you purchased an item that was resold (and, by all appearance, properly disclosed) as open-box after being returned to Fry's by the previous purchaser, who probably damaged the socket pins.

That's not the only thing betrayed by your photos. In the same photo, we find a pretty good indication of your competence and knowledge as a system builder:

generic PSU bundled with cheap cases

Q. Who would put $1000+ worth of high-performance enthusiast components in a case bundled with a $10.00 generic PSU advertising a paultry 12A limit on +12V rail?

A. Someone with absolutely no clue what they are doing.


I will wait 24 hours before forwarding this information to XFX. If I were you, I would spend some time deleting as much evidence of your attempt to DEFRAUD and LIBEL XFX as I could. While stupidity is not illegal (though we can debate whether it should be), it is illegal to make accusations you know are false, particularly when doing so as part of an attempt to obtain warranty services under false (i.e. fraudulent) pretenses. From Wikipedia's article on libel:

"Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism."
December 29, 2008 6:33:15 AM

I will be as open 100 % on everything. First it was not a open box buy at a discount price tag. The spot on the front of the box was a tag that read this product has a 15 day return policy for a 15% fee. Second the case is a demo that I received from mwave as a sample to a case we are working on in china as a kit build to sell through geeks. This is going to be offered for 30.00us with the power supply. We decided not to add the water res side panel or pumps and such as Ehiem will not sell below dealer list price of 46usd as for the power supple we use to test our systems we have access to 30 name brands here. Antec or hbmic is a china nock off that is great at + or - 1100 and right at ATX 12V V2.2 and SSI standard EPS 12V V2.91 simultaneously and right around 82% eff. we offer them under the house brand. 199us and 2yr warr. I am a A+ system builder and a current importer for Thermal take and also a JMicron importer as well as I sell tribe and turix cases and supply water parts for overdrive and soltic who will be becoming a llc this week as GHC. If you go to some of the forums and linux sites I am known as toadworks. I have been doing systems for more than 13 years. I have never seen this kind of issue and I am very upset at how stupid XFX or pine thinks USA users are!
I have no issue with them seeing this and if you go to any of the computer shows and ask for me most of the wholesale people know me. Including the owner of this site.
I do not lie about computer products. Most vendors are great people just making a dollar or two selling a good product and if one fail they junk it and send a rma for a new one. Including my 20 some vendors.
I have talkied to some of the vendors and they are the ones helping me on this. I can prove they have boards that were returned to there customers and were used and supposedly fixed boards.
I am not here to say they have a crap product or such, but they do not like to support hardware issues. Oh, some of the returned boards to the customers were sent with bad socket and or bad pins with a cover on them.
I can also prove that with no issue. That is prof from a well known retailer chain!
Now we are working on making a case to local news crews for next month and we will see where that goes.
I personaly know of three motherboards for three stores that were dead right out of the box. Same product was sent back and was fixed by XFX and went dead in a month with no OC. Power issue!
Could be a pots or could be a issue with etching or ?
The issue here is not that they offer a hit or miss product. The issue is that is they do offer a hit and miss product and a customer has a receipt and the tech dept at XFX or Pine takes more that a few weeks to work out telling the buyer that a product is a brick. The customer is out the 200 plus dollars for supporting XFX.
Then if XFX does decide to play nice with the customer, they send then a maybe used and might not be safe replacement.
As I have stated with the bbb I do not even need them to do the work FREE. I even offered to pay a fee to have them fix the board in issue or at least take a look at it to see if there is a issue out there and they are just hoping it will be a few boards and not get them like the pine gforce did.
I have no issue with Dave of Steve or Mr kim in china. All I want is for any one that has a issue with a new unopened box board, that they can get support they are paying for. Also that a MFG is not hiding anything that a user should be aware of right before he or she burns down there mom and dads home with a faulty product with possible voltage issues.
If I wanted my money back all I need to do is go to the local small clam office and file with the letter and proof we have it would be no issue getting my 200+ dollars back. That was not the whole point here.
As for stupid, some say I might be. Others say its about time some one gave the china MFG a little kick in the butt to support our kids hard earned money. But, I am personally doing this because I love computers and building my own stuff is something I enjoy. If I buy a product it is because I read something on a site like "the best customer support" or 5 out of 5 stars for customer support" ect. (They might have taken that down by now as it is a false leading statement) but as smart as you are I am sure you under stand why some one must do this to prove a point. Or the next time you go to a store and buy what you think is a cool mother board, it might be a piece of plastic with a picture of a mother board in the box and you will be out 200 usd. But to some a picture is worth 1000 usd!
Toadworks

PS. I hope you do send them this post. But I am sure they have seen it buy now all over the net and growing. We are looking for a certified motherboard builder to give a report of the issue to us. Huuummmm I wounder if Asus would do it for a fee?

Related resources
December 29, 2008 7:26:19 AM

P.S. as I was checking my email we now have a case working with Representative Darrell Issa (R - 49) in California on import holds for faulty products. Mind you this is not for returned faulty products. Also as stated by his office we are using the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and it is quite specific. It deems that goods must be safe, fit the description that's given of them and be both of "satisfactory" quality and fit for the purpose for which they're intended. If they have to be installed or assembled, there should be adequate instructions. Finally, if you're shown a sample first, what you're sold must match that sample. As well as implied best or 5 out of 5 best of serve statements.
For the price of shipping a fixed mother board they might loose the right to import with out out of house testing from some one not from pine. That might be a huge cost to them. All they need to do is support there users and fix there issues with out the BS.
It has gone way more than fixing just my one motherboard. Now it has become a movement to congress I hope. They never know who they are giving service to. So every one should be treated with respect and new mother boards should be fixed no questions! Even ECS and Foxconn will rma boards that a user is having a issue with and they are sub 50usd boards not 300usd supposedly top of the line support boards! This is not just about XFX it is about what is fair if you buy a computer product from any MFG you have the right to receive a product that is represented correctly and fairly! Rather received by a stupid or smart customer no matter what your age or background is. We were told by a judge we need to make people think of it as a lets say soda pop (any brand you like). Now lets say you pay 50usd for that very good soda you have had before. You get your receipt that is charged tax because it is a product sold to consumers in any given state as a goods or product as stated on the MFG tax id. Then you open the soda and take a drink, only to find out it is coffee! Do you really think that you would just go Oh well better luck next time.... No! You would want to get your money back or get the right one you like before so much. Follow me here.
I am not asking for the MFG to give me a FREE board or product and never have. I have only asked them to fix or replace a product I was worried about not working correctly. I never at any time was under the implied knowledge that I might or might not get what was stated on the box or web site. The box did not say the mother board might or might not work. Our support might or might not be given. I know for a fact there are a lot of people that have had or are having the same type issues. The BBB has copys of the requests from consumers like me and you. EVGA and others are just re branded products for the same china MFG. The only part that is in our favor is that they use parts from USA MFG and there for USA product rules apply on this board we were told by the patent office.

Toms hardware and the man himself is all about fare that is why all of use read his reviews and read the forums. Please respect every one here and help when you can. Calling some one stupid is a child game and not contributing to a solution to a possible very faulty product that a MFG should be very interested in getting a look at. By the MFG passing the buck it proves more and more this just might be a issue they thought would blow over with fast new releases. While at the same time removing old stock from store shelves in a given model #
Again, I want nothing more than to force a MFG to stand behind there goods sold in the USA. No mater who they are! I hope the next MTN Dew does not taste like a big five rootbeer....lol
a b V Motherboard
December 29, 2008 10:15:31 AM

In spite of my own better sense, I will indulge you for a moment.

Whether the motherboard was new sealed or open-box return, I am at a loss to explain why anyone would actually prefer to deal with the manufacturer directly, which necessarily will involve shipping the motherboard back with a minimum 10 day turn-around (or longer), when you have the vastly more convenient and faster option of resolving the entire matter through the point of purchase. No shipping, no 10 day turn-around (or longer), you take the defective or damaged motherboard back to the point of purchase and exchange it.

Indeed, this is specified in the XFX warranty terms:

"XFX does not sell its Product directly to the consumer therefore the warranty for XFX Products remains the responsibility of your reseller where you purchased the Product. This warranty offered by XFX to its Resellers is limited to the repair and/or replacement, at XFXs discretion, of defective or nonconforming Product..."

It is true that socket pin damage falls under excluded physical damage that NO motherboard manufacturer warranty covers. This is customary and well-known to informed purchasers. Below are examples of physical damage that ASUS excludes as non-covered:

ASUS non-repair grounds

Lastly, I will offer you some friendly advice in your communications with the manufacturer and/or reseller. You are far too chit-chatty in offering statements that are irrelevant to the matter at hand. It does not matter whether this was purchased for a 13 year-old girl, to impress the neighborhood boys, your hopes and dreams for gender equality.

Rambling on in this way makes you come-off as someone who is either crazy or is attempting to manipulate the reader with subjective appeals to reason and emotion. i.e. I deserve to have my motherboard replaced because I'm a good dad and someone you might want to have a beer with someday, rather than because I received a defective motherboard that is warranted against such defects.

You are not any more entitled to remedy by performance of warranty because you are a really nice person who donates to charity than if you are a sociopath who likes to kick walkers out from under little old ladies. Articulating your case with personal appeals to how deserving of a person you may be only makes you seem deceptive.

Keep it polite (as opposed to chit-chatty), to the point, and only include objective details or statements that are relevant.
December 29, 2008 5:50:14 PM

I thank you for the advice on this it seems you have good reason! I have always been a happy kind of guy. Friends with everyone and do anything for even you.
I know a lot of people out here and there. Every one will tell you I have always been this way. I am not trying to fake a BS story to make them replace a product that I did something to. I am trying to get them to replace a product that does not work correctly and could be a issue with more than just my board. I have been known to be a big teddy bear or as my friends say. "a hard to stop bear" when taken advantage of. I work with a lot of people from high places here in the us and other country and have worked with people from congress and even white house staff members. I have TV connections and such and every one will tell you the same. I am very kind and will do anything for most anyone. I am just a very open and personal kind of guy. I thought that XFX was a cool kinda down home MFG. I Was Very Wrong! They will go to great length to not support there produt to end users or at least in a few cases from what I have seen. I am now getting more and more e-mails every day about tech issues at xfx or products that do not function as stated.
I am not alone on this.
I thought I could tell them what happened give as much info as I could and they would want to see why the voltage or cpu pins welded to the cpu upon install. Fix it or replace it should have been ASAP. Now it is getting deeper and deeper for them. We should be able to prove in a few weeks that there is a design defect on this XFX 870i and possibly otheres from the same MFG. We are looking for a motherboard MFG that will look at the board either free or for a fee to tell us why this happened on a new board. We now know that with out a law suit that XFX will not fix hardware issues of any sort even if the board is new. Stores will not take back a board with physical damage. So here lye's our issue. If a customer get a new board from the store go's home and breaks the new seal and gets a crap board that fails and blows a pot off it or any other thing like a broken jumper from shipping to the store. Who will fix the new board. The way it stands now with XFX is that they tell you to go to the store the store tell you to go to the MFG and in the end you just paid for a new piece of nothing but a nice box. There are a lot of laws now and a few cases now that have been won here in cali on just this type of issue. MFG's that just do this kind of game usually have the knowledge of a defect in there product and try to hide it as long as they can hoping no one takes them to the cleaners on it.
We feel sorry for the kid that goes out and spends every dollar he made all summer long to only find out what he though he was buying might be a used crap mother board in a new box from a fly by night China MFG trying to save 20usd.
Chit-chatty .....yup you bet! I have a huge voice and not afraid of pointing a finger at a crappy fly by night change your name every few years China MFG! With motherboards going for 300 or more now days where will it stop! I have no issue with there prices, my issues is with the rules of knowingly selling a defective product that they know a store will not replace. Kinda like putting a piece of lead in a apple box and selling it by weight. You might get away with it till some one has enough and knows just the right people then all the rip offs get you totally up tird creek.
The issue we are going to go after is XFX own statement that some times boards do get damaged in shipping. Now with a sealed box that a user can not see into or check in any way. With stores tell customers in writing that they will not replace a board with damage -even though XFX knows some of the boards will not function and a customer has no way of seeing the boards in the shipping box. What is going to stop them from shipping bad boards right from the get go. Mix a few in the good batch and who will care. Me, I care. I have one of these pieces of lead!
All they needed to do was take a look at the board and at least tell me what is the issue. XFX could care less about support now that they sold this piece of possibly used junk. With no way to check a board at a store and buying a sealed box. As a customer I am at the mercy of what I think is a MFG that is not trustworthy with there products and quality control is best left to chance. This is very easy to prove!
This is why there is congress and Nvida tried to get out of a issue just like this and it was millions after they got busted by not proving support for gpu's that fried from faulty overheats. The person that started the suit was a buyer of one of the cards they would not support.....ouch!
Shipping I will pay for who cares about 20usd if it will fix a 300usd board! But, XFX is in for the money and not the support of its end user. I guess that is why the box is so nice looking and three boxs deep. They would not want you to see it there was any damage to the used board you just paid for!
Toadworks
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