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Less for a whole lot more!

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November 25, 2008 4:13:27 AM

Guys :) !

Finally, after all the dual vs quad debate, i got a solution. It's the E8400 :) .
Reason, actually, Reasons:

1. Gaming - the processor not only beats the quad (Q9300 which i was considering) but also is a good overall option when gaming is considered.

2. Price - I am getting this SLIGHTLY cheaper than the Q9300 so i save on and can opt for a better graphic card.

3. Graphic Card - i was recommended the MSI 8600GT Overclocked Silent Cooling. If you guys can suggest a better card do let me knw. my only worry is that, i have opted for a samsung 22" lcd, so will it play full screen without the jerks?

K the deal is, is this a 64 bit processor? and do you guys agree with my call? i was suggested to upgrade to a quad later on maybe 12-14 months down the line. so i thought the e8400 at this moment made more sense. do let me know what you think.

I use my pc for web, word, gaming, music, little home movie making (editing) and basic movie watching.

Thanks.
Kuber.

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November 25, 2008 4:39:27 AM

In your situation it makes sense to save money on the processor and put that money into a better video card.

The e8400 will be fine for gaming, and you can overclock it a bit if you are so inclined. My biggest concern is that someone recommended that 8600gt for gaming?! wtf?? That card is horrible for gaming and will be lacking at full screen resolution on your 22" LCD. Your baseline for gaming should be the ati 4670 or nvidia 8800/9800gt. (This is assuming that you'll be running games that are at least somewhat demanding, basically anything from the last year or two.)
November 25, 2008 4:45:49 AM

Hey mtyermom

thanx for your reply. wht you saying makes sense. even i was skeptical of the cards performance which why i asked. will find out a better option. i think the nvidia 8800gt makes sense. thanx now im sure to go with the dual core over the quad and then upgrade later. now the card is the worry.
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November 25, 2008 4:48:43 AM

err the 4670 isnt that crash hot either... basically a competitor for the 8800GS/9600GSO. so to recommend the 4670 over a 9600GT for example is mentally retarded, if you don't mind me saying so.

in my case, the 4670 and the 9600GT were the same price, both with top end coolers on them. i chose the 9600GT and couldn't be happier :D 

for a 22" however, i recommend a 4850.

oh. well since you got in and posted before me... i still think that's ridiculous. i mean E8400 is like a pretty top end dual for such a **** card. if you've got your sights on a 8600GT... so be it, but get a cheaper CPU. really. (e5200 ftw :p )
November 25, 2008 4:57:04 AM

hey v3nom,

thanx for your reply. i checked out the ati 4850. a little expensive for me for now. so do you suggest i go for the MSI 8600GT Overclocked silent cooling with the dual core e8400? it wil play well all the games on a 22" lcd right?
November 25, 2008 5:06:48 AM

V3NOM said:
err the 4670 isnt that crash hot either... basically a competitor for the 8800GS/9600GSO. so to recommend the 4670 over a 9600GT for example is mentally retarded, if you don't mind me saying so.

in my case, the 4670 and the 9600GT were the same price, both with top end coolers on them. i chose the 9600GT and couldn't be happier :D 

for a 22" however, i recommend a 4850.

oh. well since you got in and posted before me... i still think that's ridiculous. i mean E8400 is like a pretty top end dual for such a **** card. if you've got your sights on a 8600GT... so be it, but get a cheaper CPU. really. (e5200 ftw :p )



v3nom, take your patronizing comments and stuff 'em, seriously...
I'm well aware of where the 4670 sits in the hierarchy of video cards. I would have recommended the 4850 myself first off, but from the context of his post I assumed it was out of his pricerange.

1.) I didn't say the 4670 was the hot ****, I just said it was the baseline, meaning it's the least he should consider.
2.) I didn't recommend the 4670 over the 9600gt, the card in question is an 8600gt, which is garbage especially at the resolution he'll be running.

So my recommendations still stand:
The ati 4670 is the least of cards you should consider, and preferably something in the 9600/8800/9800gt range (ati 4830?).

edit: for what it's worth, I agree with what you're saying about the performance and price of those cards, you just took what I said and twisted it around/made false assumptions/misunderstood what I meant, and came across like an ass in the process.
November 25, 2008 5:09:22 AM

I'd drop down to an E7200 and put the money in an HD 4850.
November 25, 2008 5:12:10 AM

Dekasav said:
I'd drop down to an E7200 and put the money in an HD 4850.


Agreed. Higher absolute performance in the end.
November 25, 2008 5:14:39 AM

hey mtyermom,

i think the Ati HD 4670 fits in my budget. it is slightly more expensive than the MSI 8600GT i was considering and seems good. but is it a better option to the MSI 8600GT? gaming wise on full screen especially?

or a better card within budget can be also considered?
a b à CPUs
November 25, 2008 5:16:34 AM

The HD3870 or the 9600GT, both running $70 after rebates would be a decent choice, much better then the 8600GT.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

another step up would be the 9800GT and the 4830 at $95 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

you mentioned "silent" in your comment on the 8600GT, i'd try out each card for awhile and if they're noisier then you would like, add an aftermarket cooler later on down the road.

Something like this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

*EDIT* on that particular 9800GT, you could turn the fan way down (4 pin fan) and get near silent performance out of it, it's a MSI with an aftermarket type cooler installed on it.
November 25, 2008 5:21:22 AM

kuber said:
hey mtyermom,

i think the Ati HD 4670 fits in my budget. it is slightly more expensive than the MSI 8600GT i was considering and seems good. but is it a better option to the MSI 8600GT? gaming wise on full screen especially?

or a better card within budget can be also considered?



The 4670 will perform significantly better than the 8600gt, just forget the 8600gt.

This 9600gt is a good buy:
EVGA 512-P3-N860-TR GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail - $89.99 ($69.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate) with free shipping
Probably the best price/performance in that price range. (credit to v3nom for the 9600gt recommendation)
(to be clear, though, the 4670 is $10 cheaper in the outright purchase, meaning before mail in rebates are considered, but the 9600gt will outperform it and is only $5 more after rebates are factored in)
November 25, 2008 5:21:59 AM

k... im confused :( 
November 25, 2008 5:26:38 AM

I'll try to clear it up:

nothing less than the ati 4670 for that build
for very little more money the 9600gt performs better
next price point and more performance is the 8800/9800gt range (with the ati 4830 also competing)
above that in price and performance would be the ati 4850s and nv 9800gtx(+)s

EDIT: To Kuber: keep asking questions until you feel comfortable with your planned purchase.
a b à CPUs
November 25, 2008 5:32:55 AM

Here's what I would say:

Do not buy the 8600 - it's junk.

Now, all of the cards that follow are ones that would work decently, and much, much better than the 8600:

Decent:
ATI HD 4670
Nvidia 9600GT

Better:
ATI HD 4830
Nvidia 9800 GT/8800 GT (basically the same card)

Best (within a reasonable pricerange):
ATI HD 4850
Nvidia 9800 GTX (slightly worse than the 4850)

Any of these cards would be decent options, and play almost any current game at moderate to high settings just fine on that monitor, unlike the 8600GT.
November 25, 2008 5:34:10 AM

cjl said:
Here's what I would say:

Do not buy the 8600 - it's junk.

Now, all of the cards that follow are ones that would work decently, and much, much better than the 8600:

Decent:
ATI HD 4670
Nvidia 9600GT

Better:
ATI HD 4830
Nvidia 9800 GT/8800 GT (basically the same card)

Best (within a reasonable pricerange):
ATI HD 4850
Nvidia 9800 GTX (slightly worse than the 4850)

Any of these cards would be decent options, and play almost any current game at moderate to high settings just fine on that monitor, unlike the 8600GT.


Well said.
November 25, 2008 5:46:31 AM

hey mtyermom,

ok making more sense to me, just getting the prices right for the buy. for now the Decent: ATI HD 4670, Nvidia 9600GT make sense. if the budget allows Better: ATI HD 4830, Nvidia 9800 GT/8800 GT would be enough.

ok so the msi 8600gt is out of the picture completely right?
and the nvidia 9600gt / ati 4670 hd would be a great buy right for the money right? playing on a 22" lcd will be no problem, games like crysis, call of duty etc.

November 25, 2008 5:50:19 AM

kuber said:
hey mtyermom,

ok making more sense to me, just getting the prices right for the buy. for now the Decent: ATI HD 4670, Nvidia 9600GT make sense. if the budget allows Better: ATI HD 4830, Nvidia 9800 GT/8800 GT would be enough.

ok so the msi 8600gt is out of the picture completely right?
and the nvidia 9600gt / ati 4670 hd would be a great buy right for the money right? playing on a 22" lcd will be no problem, games like crysis, call of duty etc.


Yes, forget the 8600gt, it's like putting wooden wheels on a ferrari.

Crysis is always the exception. Any of those cards will run it full screen, but you'll have to adjust the graphics quality down to maintain playable framerate. The further/cheaper down the list you go, the more compromise you'll have to make in visual quality. All other games, for the most part, you'll be able to get at/near max quality (again, with more compromise in quality the lower/cheaper you go, but much less so than with Crysis).
November 25, 2008 5:50:30 AM

omfg thats basically wat i was saying... i give up :pfff: 
November 25, 2008 5:58:28 AM

I was looking at some benchmarks of the 4670 in Crysis, at the resolution of your 22" monitor you will get very playable framerates with medium graphics quality settings.
November 25, 2008 6:35:55 AM

making sense. ok lets leave crysis, i think its one of the heaviest games around. how about other games. i one i have played and will play will be fifa 09, call of duty world in conflict, far cry, and try out some good shooting games with the good old NFS. so i think gettting the Nvidia 9600GT / Ati 4670 is making sense. will try to push for a better card.

but now that the games are clear, i spoke to the pc guy, he is stuck on the "MSI 8600GT SILENT COOLING (NO FAN) OVERCLOCKED". I hammered him a bit :) . still trying to take a pick. :) 
a b à CPUs
November 25, 2008 6:51:21 AM

Forget the e8400 .

Go with the e7200 or e7300 . Check out the cpu charts on this site to see that you lose very little in performance . A mild over clock gets you the same performance as the e8400 and you have the extra cash to spend on a substantial gfx card .

Then buy a 4850 which will play almost every game Ok on the 22 inch lcd at native resolution

November 25, 2008 6:52:11 AM

...or e5200. dammit i thought i said i gave up..
November 25, 2008 7:03:47 AM

i wish i never played on the pc :(  so much to choose so little money... :( 
a b à CPUs
November 25, 2008 7:45:33 AM

I'd have to agree that you'll get better performance with a better GPU and lesser CPU. the e8400 is a fantastic gaming CPU when used with a high end GPU, or with select games that really hammer the CPU. (RTS and FSX). For the games you've mentioned I would spend more on the GPU and go for a cheaper CPU. Possibly not as low as an e5200, but the e7x00 sounds like a plan. only fractionally less capable than the e8x00.

I know it sucks being a PC gamer when you're skint, but you'll get there. I sure don't miss my ATI 1300 or Pentium D! upgrade bit by bit, but make sure you always make balanced decisions, and you've had some good advice on here. Good luck mate!
November 25, 2008 8:07:19 AM

Here's what I recommend.
Spend a lot more on the graphics card than the CPU. For example, I bought a $200 Q6600 and have it paired with a $300 HD4870. As a side note, these were the prices a few months back when I bought them.
When I crank up the graphics in crysis @ 1920x1200, the CPU never comes close to reaching full load.
Many CPU charts you see can be somewhat misleading, since they all have the game running at low quality settings so that the GPU is not a bottleneck.

What I'm trying to say is, if you buy a 4850, you will be able to play crysis or CoD4 at the same settings with the same framerates no matter if you have an E5200, E7200, or E8600. Mind you, this is if the settings are cranked up to high, which the 4850 or 9800GTX can handle just fine. As long as the GPU is loaded 100%, the CPU probably won't be.

So don't buy an E8400 and a 3870, go for something like an E7200 and a 4850. Its balanced much better for a system with your resolution. I would only suggest the faster CPU and slower graphics if you were playing at 1280x1024 or something, which you are not.
November 25, 2008 8:28:26 AM

finally things falling in place. but instead of the ati 4870 is there a nvidia option?
November 25, 2008 8:45:43 AM

guys i cant thank all of you enough, trust me, for all the help and effort, you guys are the best!!!

i finally had a word with the pc guy. just two last things:

1. is the e8400 a 64 bit processor?
2. i would be willing to get a good graphic card, mostly the ati 4850 or a nvidia which is at par with it (i still am wondering if it will support gaming on a 22" lcd ???) if there is any better card within budget, please keep me posted.
November 25, 2008 9:12:59 AM

the e5200 can overclock faster than the e7200 in some cases... ridiculously high multi and low stock fsb FTW! :D 
November 25, 2008 5:01:23 PM

The title of this topic has been edited by Jake_Barnes
November 25, 2008 5:46:18 PM

GET A 8800gt/9800gt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can get them for as cheap as 90 bucks and my (overclocked) one can run crysis at 1600x1200 with 2x aa and everything on very high except for shaders, shadows,physics and motion blur and still always get above 25fps (usually above 30) As a comparison DVD's run at 30fps.

As for supporting the resolution on your lcd, these things can go up to 2500x1900, aka 2500p :o  , so i don't think you'll have any problems.
November 26, 2008 3:15:40 AM

EAZY-E said:
GET A 8800gt/9800gt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can get them for as cheap as 90 bucks and my (overclocked) one can run crysis at 1600x1200 with 2x aa and everything on very high except for shaders, shadows,physics and motion blur and still always get above 25fps (usually above 30) As a comparison DVD's run at 30fps.

As for supporting the resolution on your lcd, these things can go up to 2500x1900, aka 2500p :o  , so i don't think you'll have any problems.


that would actually be 1600p (2500x1600)
(1920x1080 is called 1080p)


Overclocking considered, an e5200 + ati 4850 is going to be your best bang for the buck

November 26, 2008 3:53:12 AM

guys the option seems just right. let me check out for price. :) 
November 26, 2008 4:06:18 AM

yep, i think either e5200+ a nice P45, and either a 8800/9800GT for the best bang for buck, or a 4850 for pure performance. remember however that the 8800GT (and most definitely the 55nm variants of the 9800GT) will overclock much better percentage wise than the 4850... also consider the games you play. a lot of popular games, not counting source games, is optimized for the nvidia architecture. really up to you and your wallet :D 
!