Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Irresponsible Overclocking

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 3, 2009 6:55:32 PM

Irresponsible overclockers are like children on a search and destroy mission, if you plan on overclocking and take a manufactured part past its specifications to the point you exceed the specs, at least take responsibility for your own actions.

Bragging about your extreme overclock one day, then crying the next hoping the product manufacturer will RMA the part you screwed up, and replace it at the manufacturers expense, so they can roll that little inconvenience to all the rest of us in higher sales prices.

I’m not against overclocking I do it myself, but if I knowingly fry a component, and I know full well I did it, I eat the loss myself, its not the parts manufacturer thats responsible for something like that, if it hadn’t been pushed too far it wouldn’t have failed, it was my fault it failed so my responsibility to replace it.

There is an overclocker mentality that wants something for nothing, so they buy low and OC high, then fry their components trying to reach other overclocked goals, but don’t seem to realize they didn’t buy the same components the others used to get there.

Motherboard, Memory, CPU, and Graphics Card manufacturers need revolving doors on their RMA departments just because of this, OOPS I think I fried my GPU, it was working great two days ago? Do you think it was my overclock? DUH!

There are too many new so called overclockers that don’t know what the heck they’re doing in the first place posting, “Help me overclock my precious”, too lazy to study the guides for themselves and learn what they’re doing, they want someone to hold them by the hand and do it for them, If you are going to overclock learn what you’re doing first, then do it.

But above everything else take responsibility for your own actions, and learn to overclock responsibly and know when to quit and be satisfied where you’re clocked too, because that Gold Ring you’re after may be hanging just past component failure.

If you’re not fully ready and responsible enough to take responsibility for your own actions then don’t overclock, because you will screw something up and expect a free handout for your incompetence.

This is my own personal opinion on the subject, this is not a statement from THGF, but my own opinion, so whether you agree or not is completely irrelevant, I will not be changing my views on the subject.
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
December 3, 2009 8:05:11 PM

It gets to me as well when people who don't know what they are doing try to get over and have other people do the work for them. Not just when it comes to OC'ing a computer but I mean with life in general.

As for relating those feelings to computers, I agree 100% that if you don't know what you are doing and are too lazy to do your research, you shouldn't ever try to OC. And those that do know what they are doing accept the risk that you might toast your rig and be out a lot of cash. As for the RMA point that was brought up, I have to say I agree with that as well. Folks who are trying to get over on CPU/GPU/Motherboard manufactures just cost everyone else more money, and that sucks that we all have to pay for stupidity. Just my 2 cents.
December 3, 2009 8:25:39 PM

I think for some (with limited experience/common sense) the reward is simply too great to ignore. Overclocking turns a sub $300 processor into the equivalent of a $1000 extreme edition processor... that $700+ hook is what draws 'em in... and seeing other people's (positive) results emboldens them to just go for it. I would wager that most damaged components ended up that way because people overclocked in large increments... ok, so I'm stable at stock speeds so now it's time to go for a 50% overclock. Every component has a line it can't cross... but if you just barely step across that line, 9 times out of 10 you're going to be ok... just back away from the line and all is well.

I don't guess I have particularly strong feelings on this topic... I see careless 1st time builders as a bigger problem. If someone burns up a component by careless overclocking, they take it up with their manufacturers... if they can't get their new build to work, THEY COME HERE! How many times have you seen someone consider ordering an 1156 processor for a 1366 board? It seems like most people order first and then ask questions later when their rig doesn't post. By your 2nd or 3rd rig you should be qualified to go it alone... but that 1st one? Odds are you need some hand-holding to get you through it.

Anyways, it was interesting reading your thoughts on this topic.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
December 3, 2009 10:32:44 PM

Yeah, Rodney has a point I think. I've walked into Fry's and have seen salesmen pushing a i7 920 and trying to sell the guy a LGA 1156 motherboard. They were both under the impression i7's work with all i7 boards. :(  Darn Intel for doing that move. Anyhow their product, their rules. All I'm saying is that yeah, everything has it's limits and sometimes n00bies need a little nudge in the right direction. In short: I agree with Rodney and Ryan. Preach on!
a c 145 K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 12:50:49 AM

I think your target audience also falls into the "value preachers" calling someone "stoopid" for buying a 975 when they can OC a 920 to the same speed. The thought that a 975 can be OC's too seems never have occurred.

"Rock Solid Stable" also is taken to mean one can run prime95 for an hour and all the other issues in Event Viewer are irrelevant.

Though building PC's for almost 20 years, I have always been a casual OC'er. When you depend our your puters for a living, having one out of service for a day can cost upwards of $2,000. Spending hours and hours tweaking and fiddling also starts to cut into those billable hours.

Now that my son has just finished building a high end box, I have been enjoying the time spent w/ him not only building but researching, fiddling and tweaking. Interestingly enough, during the build, we fried two case fans and was proud of my spawn when he told Antec that we burnt out the fans using a Y-splitter that we bought from a mod shop. The Mod Shop sent a new splitter of course and apologized but I was surprised that Antec still sent the replacements out for free even after he said that it was our fault.

a c 197 K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 1:06:29 AM

ryan, can't disagree a bit. I get tired of answering posts from people who simply want to cookbook the overclock.

As far as responsibilty, we old farts are apparently living in a new age.
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 6:13:45 AM

I'm not an old fart :(  I've only been using computers since the Commodore 64 and been building them since 1998. Wait... in computers years that might make me old, huh?
December 4, 2009 8:15:15 AM

I think the bragging rights are what some people yearn for rather than learning and doing things right. You'd see some threads on other forums on what is the fastest overclock you've done on a certain processor and you'd see some pretty insane speeds. Now with the marketing of motherboard manufacturers of the the "ease of overclocking" with their boards, the number of dimwits just increase.

Remember the age when you needed to set jumpers if you wanted to increase the fsb or core voltage? I bet there were fewer "noobs" then that would try it out as a lot of them were afraid to touch electronic components (though some would try).

Making things easier to do is what sells a product, and unfortunately misuse or abuse of users then becomes easier.

I myself know a bit of overclocking but I only do it if I require massive processing power (video encoding), as most tasks (internet surfing and typing documents) really don't require much. Also I usually undervolt, as I want cooler components and a bits off the electricity bill.
December 4, 2009 8:43:48 AM

Quote:
I'm not an old fart :(  I've only been using computers since the Commodore 64 and been building them since 1998. Wait... in computers years that might make me old, huh?


Not to add on to the insult (if you'd call it that), but my first PC was a Pentium MMX and even that may look old to some people.
December 4, 2009 9:23:00 AM

I have only had one processor actually flat out die on me it was a athalon XP1700+ , and was after warranty expiration anyways. My first PC was a 16Mhz? 386, and first one to build from ground up I used a socket 7 ? Cyrix 120+. I cut my teeth on Dos 3.3 , and then 6.22 and WFW 3.11. Hated every change of windows generations and fought all of them till finally giving in and upgrading right after the next newest version was out :pt1cable: 
The first upgrade I ever did was on my Packard Bell sx2 50 486 the sx meant it had no math co-processor. El cheapo model with 4mb fast page mode memory on board. I bough a 8mb 32pin simm mybe a dimm actually. It set me back a princely $212, but I had 12 mb total memory damn did Duke Nuke'm and Doom play smoother. :o 
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 10:32:36 AM

Guys I'm quite pleased with all the responses so far in this thread and have some added comments to throw in but I have to first directly address JackNaylorPE to say, I'm glad my wife had just left for work when I saw your Sig and busted out laughing.

She always comes in my office to see what I'm laughing about, and trust me she wouldn't have gotten it, and would have gotten mad at me for laughing at it.

Great Sig Jack! ROFL
a b K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 12:59:04 PM

WTF brought this on?

I don't mind overclocking, in my experience it isn't really worth it. Sure you can add another 600MHz-1GHz to a CPU, but what reductions does that get you? Maybe another 30secs off an encode time? Would I really notice that? (Me? No.) Unlocking is a great thing however, that can bring about very large gains.

First computer was a 286, so no MMX. First upgrade I did was (helping, I was really young) taking out the 286 and putting in a new mobo with a 386. Had dual hdds, one 20mb and one 80mb. Plugged into things that looked like PCI slots if I remember right. I also remember my dads old Vic 20 which used a tape drive and the C64. I am to young to remember my dads Bally (?) computer. After the Vic 20 he never brought that out anymore.
December 4, 2009 5:39:13 PM

4745454b said:
I don't mind overclocking, in my experience it isn't really worth it. Sure you can add another 600MHz-1GHz to a CPU, but what reductions does that get you? Maybe another 30secs off an encode time? Would I really notice that? (Me? No.) Unlocking is a great thing however, that can bring about very large gains.


With a quick test on an E5200, VirtualDub (Xvid source -> Xvid constant bitrate output) with a 43m 32s long source:

2.5GHz = 14.5~15 mins
3.0GHz = 11~ mins

If you do batch encodes or a few hour long home video projects, the minutes quickly do add up. The minutes you save become really important if you are doing a project as you could preview the final output faster.

Don't knock it if you don't need it.


December 4, 2009 5:56:48 PM

amnotanoobie said:
I think the bragging rights are what some people yearn for rather than learning and doing things right. You'd see some threads on other forums on what is the fastest overclock you've done on a certain processor and you'd see some pretty insane speeds. Now with the marketing of motherboard manufacturers of the the "ease of overclocking" with their boards, the number of dimwits just increase.

Remember the age when you needed to set jumpers if you wanted to increase the fsb or core voltage? I bet there were fewer "noobs" then that would try it out as a lot of them were afraid to touch electronic components (though some would try).

Making things easier to do is what sells a product, and unfortunately misuse or abuse of users then becomes easier.

I myself know a bit of overclocking but I only do it if I require massive processing power (video encoding), as most tasks (internet surfing and typing documents) really don't require much. Also I usually undervolt, as I want cooler components and a bits off the electricity bill.



Agreed! Lets make it so easy a caveman can do it! That way you don't actually have to know anything.
a b K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 6:03:56 PM

I've been building PCs since the mid '80s, and I remember jumper overclocks, although I didn't use them after even a stock-clocked Cyrix chip still pulled so much juice it fried my mobo. I do overclock, and I do notice some difference, but I've never even considered going for something extreme. I agree 100% with the OP though, one must take full responsibility for one's actions.
If you buy incompatible parts, you can return something, and little harm done as the part will still be usable by someone else. If you fry something though, and RMA it, you are ducking your responsibility; don't waste my time.
a b K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 8:58:12 PM

4Ryan6 said:
Irresponsible overclockers are like children on a search and destroy mission, if you plan on overclocking and take a manufactured part past its specifications to the point you exceed the specs, at least take responsibility for your own actions.

Bragging about your extreme overclock one day, then crying the next hoping the product manufacturer will RMA the part you screwed up, and replace it at the manufacturers expense, so they can roll that little inconvenience to all the rest of us in higher sales prices.

I’m not against overclocking I do it myself, but if I knowingly fry a component, and I know full well I did it, I eat the loss myself, its not the parts manufacturer thats responsible for something like that, if it hadn’t been pushed too far it wouldn’t have failed, it was my fault it failed so my responsibility to replace it.

There is an overclocker mentality that wants something for nothing, so they buy low and OC high, then fry their components trying to reach other overclocked goals, but don’t seem to realize they didn’t buy the same components the others used to get there.

Motherboard, Memory, CPU, and Graphics Card manufacturers need revolving doors on their RMA departments just because of this, OOPS I think I fried my GPU, it was working great two days ago? Do you think it was my overclock? DUH!

There are too many new so called overclockers that don’t know what the heck they’re doing in the first place posting, “Help me overclock my precious”, too lazy to study the guides for themselves and learn what they’re doing, they want someone to hold them by the hand and do it for them, If you are going to overclock learn what you’re doing first, then do it.

But above everything else take responsibility for your own actions, and learn to overclock responsibly and know when to quit and be satisfied where you’re clocked too, because that Gold Ring you’re after may be hanging just past component failure.

If you’re not fully ready and responsible enough to take responsibility for your own actions then don’t overclock, because you will screw something up and expect a free handout for your incompetence.

This is my own personal opinion on the subject, this is not a statement from THGF, but my own opinion, so whether you agree or not is completely irrelevant, I will not be changing my views on the subject.


Amen [:lectrocrew:6]

Hopefully the un-educated for lack of a better "word" will read this before asking any questions.. I am here to help but if I told you how many PM's i get on a daily basis you would not believe me. Koodos on this on ryan ;) 

Any possibility on gettin this stickied?
December 4, 2009 9:42:06 PM

Quote:
jsc wrote:

As far as responsibilty, we old farts are apparently living in a new age.


Generation x'ers = no responsibility ;) 

\,,/


Quote:
rodney-ws wrote:


I think for some (with limited experience/common sense) the reward is simply too great to ignore. Overclocking turns a sub $300 processor into the equivalent of a $1000 extreme edition processor... that $700+ hook is what draws 'em in... and seeing other people's (positive) results emboldens them to just go for it.


Exactly.

Quote:
4ryan6 wrote:

But above everything else take responsibility for your own actions, and learn to overclock responsibly and know when to quit and be satisfied where you’re clocked too, because that Gold Ring you’re after may be hanging just past component complete failure.


Be careful with the expensive PC components this Christmas and all the things that the bring joy and happiness this holiday season. Happy holidys! :) 

December 4, 2009 9:57:41 PM

shabaa said:
Agreed! Lets make it so easy a caveman can do it! That way you don't actually have to know anything.


Not sure if I appreciate that comment.
a b K Overclocking
December 4, 2009 10:54:53 PM

lol... ^^
a b K Overclocking
December 5, 2009 8:32:36 AM

i just clock for fun seeing what i can do here and there nothing extreme just some fun not to brag bout how high they gotten,this is the exact reason i dont bench my personal rigs but as said always be careful no chip is ever the same
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 5, 2009 11:41:54 AM

rodney_ws said:
I would wager that most damaged components ended up that way because people overclocked in large increments... ok, so I'm stable at stock speeds so now it's time to go for a 50% overclock. Every component has a line it can't cross... but if you just barely step across that line, 9 times out of 10 you're going to be ok... just back away from the line and all is well.


Absolutely right that is happening more and more today.

JackNaylorPE said:
I think your target audience also falls into the "value preachers" calling someone "stoopid" for buying a 975 when they can OC a 920 to the same speed. The thought that a 975 can be OC's too seems never have occurred.


Good point



jsc said:
As far as responsibilty, we old farts are apparently living in a new age.


:lol:  Affirmative

amnotanoobie said:
I think the bragging rights are what some people yearn for rather than learning and doing things right. You'd see some threads on other forums on what is the fastest overclock you've done on a certain processor and you'd see some pretty insane speeds. Now with the marketing of motherboard manufacturers of the the "ease of overclocking" with their boards, the number of dimwits just increase.

Remember the age when you needed to set jumpers if you wanted to increase the fsb or core voltage? I bet there were fewer "noobs" then that would try it out as a lot of them were afraid to touch electronic components (though some would try).

Making things easier to do is what sells a product, and unfortunately misuse or abuse of users then becomes easier.


I think what some don't take note of in those fastest overclock threads is the missing information of how they actually got there, because anyone thats spent the time and effort to learn what they are doing, really expects others to do the same, the shear joy of OCing to me is to know I did it, no one did it for me.

And just because a certain clock speed was reached in some OC thread, doesn't mean it can be run with every application 24/7, but the reader locks the certain CPU in mind, maybe they already have one and begin their duplication of the same goal, but they have completely different hardware.

Its kinda sad when we get these guys here that seem like they have good common sense because they're intelligent enough to understand what you're are trying to tell them in their BIOS setup, but actually bought a motherboard for their CPU with little to no OCing capabilities in the first place.

So like weren't overclockable components somewhere in the planning process?

Ahh yes I do remember the jumper days!

Quote:
I agree 100% that if you don't know what you are doing and are too lazy to do your research, you shouldn't ever try to OC. And those that do know what they are doing accept the risk that you might toast your rig and be out a lot of cash. As for the RMA point that was brought up, I have to say I agree with that as well. Folks who are trying to get over on CPU/GPU/Motherboard manufactures just cost everyone else more money, and that sucks that we all have to pay for stupidity. Just my 2 cents.


Thats good 2 cents in my book!

If someone is at least trying, they've studied and studied but don't quite get something, sometimes explaining something to them is like turning on a light bulb in their minds, that make s helping them worth it to me because they are at least trying, but for everyone of those individuals theres about 3 on the opposite side of the fence, they want the exact settings given to them and do no work themselves.

IMO the first step of OCing responsibility is to be fully ready to accept the consequences of your own actions, study and learn what you are doing and almost every guide I've ever read starts with a warning clause, that OCing can damage components you do it at your own risk.
a b K Overclocking
December 6, 2009 1:55:02 AM

Unfortunately we live in an era of instant gratification. It use to be the "Me" generation, and this in turn has given way to the "Me Now!!" generation.

But anyway, some of the blame has to be placed on the shoulders of the manufactures them selfs as they sell hype. Just look at MoBo for instance, with all their user friendly enhanced BIOS OC'ing features. H3ll I've been Ocing over 4 years (relative nOOb), searched for hours on end to find what these settings do and only know about 50% of the definitions and maybe 33% of what they actually do!

Processors are no different. AMD hyped the overclockability of the Phenom II for months. Then you read that your 3 year limited warranty is only good if "Your processor has been used exclusively with the original heat sink/fan unit supplied." (Now does this include that pre-applied TIM also?) Under these parameters a slight raise of the multiplier is all your gonna get, even with 1.5v being within spec. and still be covered.

Memory falls in line here too. The OCZ Reapers in my current set-up are rated at 2.1 - 2.3v at NewEgg. But if you go to OCZ's product page you will find this at the bottom of the page "**Do not exceed 2.1V specification if listed on the module label" very misleading. Especially being that you won't see these stickers until you take em' out of the box they where mailed in.

So it's not hard to see why they think it as easy as hitting a button and Voila!! Overclocked

To you old hands: be patient with these new up-starts

And to those of you just just starting out: Don't make me stop this computer :fou:  , AND DO YOUR DAM'D HOMEWORK!!! :non: 

UF
a c 145 K Overclocking
December 6, 2009 2:29:21 AM

amnotanoobie said:
Not to add on to the insult (if you'd call it that), but my first PC was a Pentium MMX and even that may look old to some people.


Young whippersnapper :) 

I remember getting to an 8088 ($6k) and feeling just a little smug when everyone else had an 8086 !
a c 145 K Overclocking
December 6, 2009 2:31:30 AM

4Ryan6 said:
Guys I'm quite pleased with all the responses so far in this thread and have some added comments to throw in but I have to first directly address JackNaylorPE to say, I'm glad my wife had just left for work when I saw your Sig and busted out laughing.

She always comes in my office to see what I'm laughing about, and trust me she wouldn't have gotten it, and would have gotten mad at me for laughing at it.

Great Sig Jack! ROFL


The thing is ..... the ladies never get mad .... ask any woman, man or child over the age of 3 that question and nobody says yes, nobody says no...the only answer I ever hear is "of course".... and the look on everyone's face is like you just told them the sky was blue.
a c 145 K Overclocking
December 6, 2009 3:22:54 AM

OvrClkr said:
Amen [:lectrocrew:6]

Hopefully the un-educated for lack of a better "word" will read this before asking any questions.. I am here to help but if I told you how many PM's i get on a daily basis you would not believe me. Koodos on this on ryan ;) 

Any possibility on gettin this stickied?


Irresponsible OC'ing is one side of the coin but I have also run into smugness where someone is just trying to educate themselves and sent off w/ a dismissive note. I have always been a casual OC'er.....spending a few bucks extra for an enthusiast board w/ build in OC features was my kinda thing....An extra $790 for the feature pales in comparison to the time spent (and money lost when ya work for yaself) fiddling with things.

I always went for 20% or so, and if it was gonna take me more than 20 minutes, it wasn't worth the T & E to me. However, my son is now in college and he recently earned enough to build his first rig. The build and the OC'ing afterwards has been something for us to do together which for you Dads out there with teenage sons ... you know what a rarity it is for them at this awkward age of burgeoning independence to ask to do something with them so the time is treasured.

We've hit a bit of a wall but I am satisfied as to having hit our target .... running at BCLK of 176, 3.7 GHz with all settings on Auto, 1.200 CPU voltage (slightly lower when measured of course) and DRAM of 1.56 (Core temps are 66/63/63/63).

Turning off SpeedStep, HT and a few other BIOS items, we've hit 4.2 GHz at 1.30 volts with highest core at 70 but this is just for "experimentation". We are still working on improving temps or squeezing out another BCLK frequency or 2 but it seems that the 3.7 Ghz profile is what he'll use for everyday given the low temps.

I'd ask you for a few lessons or tips but don't wanna hijack the thread.

If ya interested in my continuing education, ya can mozy on over here:) 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/255630-29-voltage-inc...
December 7, 2009 2:28:02 AM

I like this thread, and am impressed with the frank discussion. Expressing opinions on a forum can be taken as an offense for those that are sensitive to the text but in the end we all learn something.

I, and no doubt many others, couldn't help but second guess myself while reading this. Did I ever take advantage of someone else's knowledge to cut corners for myself? I don't think that I have, but my memory is terrible so who knows.

The start of this thread, from my perspective, was about ethical behavior for the most part i.e. don't be reckless and take advantage of others for your mistakes (RMA's). But 2 statements seemed to be directed toward a different kind of issue...

1.
"There is an overclocker mentality that wants something for nothing, so they buy low and OC high, then fry their components trying to reach other overclocked goals, but don’t seem to realize they didn’t buy the same components the others used to get there."

and

2.
"There are too many new so called overclockers that don’t know what the heck they’re doing in the first place posting, “Help me overclock my precious”, too lazy to study the guides for themselves and learn what they’re doing, they want someone to hold them by the hand and do it for them, If you are going to overclock learn what you’re doing first, then do it. "


To comment on these 2 quotes above, I will be the devils advocate for the moment.
In part 1 it sounds like these mistakes are made by a lack of experience, which is annoying but innocent in many cases. The idea of gaining performance at little to no cost is like the old testament to overclockers. The poor mans upgrade. In contrast it now seems oc'ing has become the rich enthusiasts luxury, and manufacturers are eating it up. It bugs me to read a thread such as (budget buyers request) "what kind of mobo can I get for $100 to do a modest oc?" And the next post is "you can't oc a board under $100." May be true, and its not the fault of the reply, but it seems somewhat elitist that $180-300 is the range for a decent board to oc.
Prior to overclocking forums, and the like, the majority of current oc'ers today didn't didn't know they had hidden potential in their systems. It doesn't seem all that surprising that people would eventually try to repeat someone else's success, consistent with human nature. Ironically the online forum is the precursor to a lot of this irresponsible overclocking (obviously a lot of improvement as well). Without it the amateur oc'er wouldn't know what they were missing and therefore never oc in the first place.

That leads to part 2, I agree with you in this statement, those that obviously haven't made any effort on their own are inconsiderate and lazy (they usually stand out too). That being said, many novices oc only once every 3-5 years. BIOS versions change in that time and the memory of how to oc can get rusty in that length of time. Even the best oc'er guides will have discrepancies on the many different mobo BIOS. Its like visiting a new country and having broken speech of the native tongue. You can't expect yourself to write an essay in the first 6 months of being there, it takes time to learn a new language. Having a considerate friend to help you learn is a great advantage.

I agree no one should change their opinions they've got, thats why I will summarize with this...

Despite the bad apples don't assume the whole bushel is spoiled.

December 7, 2009 2:50:22 AM

I remember helping a friend with his first build, first thing he did was start it up and set his E5200 to 4.0 Ghz and voltage to 1.5v and was proud that it was stable. Needless to say I was beside myself with horror. The chip died in about a year.

We all learn one way or another. I've made mistakes myself, never killed a component, but I've made mistakes. The only component I ever had that die and wasn't DOA was an athlon 64 3400+, never knew why it died because it was kept plenty cool and never overclocked.
December 7, 2009 5:41:28 AM

4trees said:
In contrast it now seems oc'ing has become the rich enthusiasts luxury, and manufacturers are eating it up. It bugs me to read a thread such as (budget buyers request) "what kind of mobo can I get for $100 to do a modest oc?" And the next post is "you can't oc a board under $100." May be true, and its not the fault of the reply, but it seems somewhat elitist that $180-300 is the range for a decent board to oc.


I beg to differ, overclocking is no longer a "rich enthusiasts luxury," extreme overclocking is. I am actually shocked at the fact that you could buy $100 motherboards that have core voltage and fsb voltage adjustment options. Unlike before wherein core voltage, fsb, asynchronized mem speed, mem voltage, and mem timings aren't available even for $100+ boards.

Reaching for even 20% overclock before was already a feat it in itself, 50% wasn't really common. Now 20% seems to be reachable by almost anyone, aside from those that really buy bargain bin parts.
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 12:49:35 PM

4trees said:
I like this thread, and am impressed with the frank discussion. Expressing opinions on a forum can be taken as an offense for those that are sensitive to the text but in the end we all learn something.

I, and no doubt many others, couldn't help but second guess myself while reading this. Did I ever take advantage of someone else's knowledge to cut corners for myself? I don't think that I have, but my memory is terrible so who knows.

The start of this thread, from my perspective, was about ethical behavior for the most part i.e. don't be reckless and take advantage of others for your mistakes (RMA's). But 2 statements seemed to be directed toward a different kind of issue...

1.
"There is an overclocker mentality that wants something for nothing, so they buy low and OC high, then fry their components trying to reach other overclocked goals, but don’t seem to realize they didn’t buy the same components the others used to get there."

and

2.
"There are too many new so called overclockers that don’t know what the heck they’re doing in the first place posting, “Help me overclock my precious”, too lazy to study the guides for themselves and learn what they’re doing, they want someone to hold them by the hand and do it for them, If you are going to overclock learn what you’re doing first, then do it. "


To comment on these 2 quotes above, I will be the devils advocate for the moment.
In part 1 it sounds like these mistakes are made by a lack of experience, which is annoying but innocent in many cases. The idea of gaining performance at little to no cost is like the old testament to overclockers. The poor mans upgrade. In contrast it now seems oc'ing has become the rich enthusiasts luxury, and manufacturers are eating it up. It bugs me to read a thread such as (budget buyers request) "what kind of mobo can I get for $100 to do a modest oc?" And the next post is "you can't oc a board under $100." May be true, and its not the fault of the reply, but it seems somewhat elitist that $180-300 is the range for a decent board to oc.
Prior to overclocking forums, and the like, the majority of current oc'ers today didn't didn't know they had hidden potential in their systems. It doesn't seem all that surprising that people would eventually try to repeat someone else's success, consistent with human nature. Ironically the online forum is the precursor to a lot of this irresponsible overclocking (obviously a lot of improvement as well). Without it the amateur oc'er wouldn't know what they were missing and therefore never oc in the first place.

That leads to part 2, I agree with you in this statement, those that obviously haven't made any effort on their own are inconsiderate and lazy (they usually stand out too). That being said, many novices oc only once every 3-5 years. BIOS versions change in that time and the memory of how to oc can get rusty in that length of time. Even the best oc'er guides will have discrepancies on the many different mobo BIOS. Its like visiting a new country and having broken speech of the native tongue. You can't expect yourself to write an essay in the first 6 months of being there, it takes time to learn a new language. Having a considerate friend to help you learn is a great advantage.

I agree no one should change their opinions they've got, thats why I will summarize with this...

Despite the bad apples don't assume the whole bushel is spoiled.



Yeah my first post was a random assortment of gripes, they let me out of my padded cell long enough to get my hands on a computer, Their Bad. ROFL

I'm an Old School OCer from the M/B jumper days back when if we got a 25mhz increase that was backflip qualifying celebration time Hoo Rah.

As for myself I've never asked anyone here at THGF in the forums to recommend the components for my build, or asked how to OC something, I've always done my own component research, and studied how to OC individual components from all the vast OCing guides available on the internet.

Sometimes it actually amazes me of what some here at THGF ask for advice about in the first place, like they want it handed to them on a platter, but they have no basic knowledge to build upon, so if someone gives them an exact cheap build spec list, but are dissatisfied because it won't OC, well the OC part should have begun in the planning stages of the build.

So the basic knowledge is very important to get under your belt, so you can learn what to buy in the first place to get where you want to go, if you're part way there then you'll have a part way there OC, you'll never get the OC you're after if you don't buy components capable of getting there.

Theres a lot of frying lesser M/Bs and RMAing them, just because the user bought the wrong M/B to start with because he did no studying on his own to learn, the M/B he bought wasn't going to do what he wanted, thats not the M/B manufacturers fault, I don't think anyone here would say it is, even the guilty party knows what they did.

The same thing happens with memory modules, if you plan on OCing your memory, buy memory that will run OCd speeds, is pretty simple actually, but if someone doesn't know that, they buy the lesser memory and discover it won't do what they want.

unclefester made a very good point in that the hardware manufacturers are capitalizing on the fact of targeting the OCing community and he is 100% correct in that, AMD releasing a host of BE CPUs with unlocked multipliers is absolutely targeting the OC community, along with OC capable advertised memory, and M/Bs.

However these are not really the cheapest of component parts, and something designed to be OCd is going to handle OCing, there in is partially my point, do your own research, learn what the components are capable of, learn how to OC then do it.

a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 1:00:44 PM

Quote:
God darn whippersnappers, always bothering old gramps.

Has someone left you unsupervised again?

Sorry, the post made me think of grampa simpson.


Dag Nab It! :lol: 

Wheres my teef ma?

I caint type widout my teef, don't have nuttin to grind, get my teef ma!

I'll give deez whippersnappers a piece O my mind! :lol: 
December 7, 2009 1:58:51 PM

4ryan6 wrote:

Quote:
Sometimes it actually amazes me of what some here at THGF ask for advice about in the first place, like they want it handed to them on a platter, but they have no basic knowledge to build upon, so if someone gives them an exact cheap build spec list, but are dissatisfied because it won't OC, well the OC part should have begun in the planning stages of the build.



TOXIKK is obviously a disgruntled Anandtech Vet looking for answers. :sol: 








a b K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 2:39:13 PM

Well, it would be nice for first time OC'ers to read this and then ask questions, many users want to jump from knowing nothing to gettin 4Ghz out of their 955 but yet they do not want to read before they do anything, they just want you to let them know what is needed for such OC. And it is even harder to help someone when they have no idea what certain Bios screens are for.

a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 3:14:26 PM

OvrClkr said:
many users want to jump from knowing nothing to gettin 4Ghz out of their 955 but yet they do not want to read before they do anything, they just want you to let them know what is needed for such OC. And it is even harder to help someone when they have no idea what certain Bios screens are for.


Thats so true OvrClkr
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 3:27:32 PM

badge said:
4ryan6 wrote:

Quote:
Sometimes it actually amazes me of what some here at THGF ask for advice about in the first place, like they want it handed to them on a platter, but they have no basic knowledge to build upon, so if someone gives them an exact cheap build spec list, but are dissatisfied because it won't OC, well the OC part should have begun in the planning stages of the build.



TOXIKK is obviously a disgruntled Anandtech Vet looking for answers. :sol: 



Good Reference of a total lost cause situation, was that thread a planted Joke? :lol: 
December 7, 2009 3:40:46 PM

That thread was posted around 2am. No one replied, so I did. May be a joke looking back. Nah. :lol:  It was difficult for me to think of a way to approach his misunderstanding about overclocking his machine. :)  He made me smile with his reference to Riva Tuner and ATITOOL. "I think my MB supports BIOS, but I'm not sure how to enter it." Well...let's back up for an hour or two...
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 4:01:06 PM

Well it was a HP machine, maybe he missed the hidden overclocking section. ROFL
a b K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 4:01:49 PM

Quote:
Sometimes it actually amazes me of what some here at THGF ask for advice about in the first place, like they want it handed to them on a platter, but they have no basic knowledge to build upon


Amazes me as well. Its good if you post your broken build asking for advice before buying. I've seen builds where people want to buy $300 socket 1366 motherboard, a socket 1156 i7 860, and powering the whole thing is a cheap $30 PSU from a company no ones ever heard of. If you can't even match the CPU and mobo, you should ask for help.

What bugs me is 3 weeks later after this guy builds it he comes backing asking how to overclock. A guy who couldn't even match a CPU and motherboard wants to overclock it? You obviously don't know enough to do it, the best advice I can give is do MUCH more reading.

My question still hasn't been answered, what brought all this about? I'd love to see the original post.
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 4:12:01 PM

4745454b said:
Quote:
Sometimes it actually amazes me of what some here at THGF ask for advice about in the first place, like they want it handed to them on a platter, but they have no basic knowledge to build upon


Amazes me as well. Its good if you post your broken build asking for advice before buying. I've seen builds where people want to buy $300 socket 1366 motherboard, a socket 1156 i7 860, and powering the whole thing is a cheap $30 PSU from a company no ones ever heard of. If you can't even match the CPU and mobo, you should ask for help.

What bugs me is 3 weeks later after this guy builds it he comes backing asking how to overclock. A guy who couldn't even match a CPU and motherboard wants to overclock it? You obviously don't know enough to do it, the best advice I can give is do MUCH more reading.

My question still hasn't been answered, what brought all this about? I'd love to see the original post.


Its actually and accumulated buildup of a lot of different posts and situations, not dissimilar to your example here, that I just needed to vent about, and I think most all of us have experienced the same frustrating situations.

a b K Overclocking
December 7, 2009 5:34:13 PM

Ahhhh, I completely understand.
December 8, 2009 12:49:51 AM

Then there's also the posts about why they can't reach 4+GHz when they either have cheaper parts, or they have the exact same parts but can't accept that overclocking also involves luck.
December 8, 2009 4:52:56 AM

Don't knock the stupid NOOB overclockers, they bring me 50% of the systems that need repair (or a new system.) I just "love" people who build their own (first)water cooling system, they always say "My W.C.S leaked on my system, is it ok?" or "My system worked for a minute but died, and it smelt funny. Can you fix it?"(can you guess the cause of the second failure?).

Who here works on system for a little spare cash? Do you "TAX" 'some people' ?


I have a set of rules when it comes to OC, my rigs.


New Rig's VERY light OC or not at all.

EOL Rig's hardcore OC.(could care less about it.)
a b K Overclocking
December 8, 2009 3:33:38 PM

Quote:
New Rig's VERY light OC or not at all.

EOL Rig's hardcore OC.(could care less about it.)


I've never understood this. Why buy a $300 1366 mobo, and then a $300 920, only to try to OC it to 4GHz? Why risk $600 worth of stuff just to get another 20-40% out of something that is already some of the fastest out there? Are you really going to push the Vcore up to 1.4? Wouldn't a milder OC let it last longer?

Older equipment sure, it needs the speed boost. My old S754 Sempron 2800+ isn't going to cut it anymore for most people. You want to overclock that to 2+GHz and do the same on that 9700pro go for it. To replace that with much faster newer stuff wouldn't cost much at all. But to possibly lose $600 worth of stuff, I just don't see how you could do that.
December 8, 2009 4:31:46 PM

4745454b said:
Quote:
New Rig's VERY light OC or not at all.

EOL Rig's hardcore OC.(could care less about it.)


I've never understood this. Why buy a $300 1366 mobo, and then a $300 920, only to try to OC it to 4GHz? Why risk $600 worth of stuff just to get another 20-40% out of something that is already some of the fastest out there? Are you really going to push the Vcore up to 1.4? Wouldn't a milder OC let it last longer?


Because we can! Seriously, some people love to see how far they could take things, some are more cautious, some simply want to protect their investment. It's like having a new car, some want to immediately see what's the fastest they could go with it, some test the waters but never really push it, and some just don't want to break anything on their shiny new toy from the start.
a c 197 K Overclocking
December 12, 2009 9:14:38 AM

4Ryan6 said:
Ahh yes I do remember the jumper days!


Well, I guess we all need to start somewhere ...

My usual OC sig:
Overclocking since 1978 - Z80 (TRS-80) from 1.77 MHz to 2.01 MHz

Did it by piggy-backing chips, cutting PCB traces, and running jumpers (translation: "running and soldering little bits of wire here and there". :)  ).
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 12, 2009 12:43:25 PM

jsc said:
Well, I guess we all need to start somewhere ...

My usual OC sig:
Overclocking since 1978 - Z80 (TRS-80) from 1.77 MHz to 2.01 MHz

Did it by piggy-backing chips, cutting PCB traces, and running jumpers (translation: "running and soldering little bits of wire here and there". :)  ).



So thats where your OCing addiction started Eh! :D 
December 19, 2009 2:54:27 AM

Wow. I guess I've misjudged our Moderator and this whole forum in general. I was under the impression it was a place for newbies and pros alike to get together and share experiences and help on another. My mistake...................
December 19, 2009 3:51:48 AM

1whudson said:
Wow. I guess I've misjudged our Moderator and this whole forum in general. I was under the impression it was a place for newbies and pros alike to get together and share experiences and help on another. My mistake...................

What in this thread gives you an impression that goes against that?

Newbies can absolutely share experiences and get help, but they have to be willing to do a bit of research and do a bit of work if they want to get a good, high, stable OC.
a b K Overclocking
December 19, 2009 7:14:34 AM

4Ryan6 said:


Motherboard, Memory, CPU, and Graphics Card manufacturers need revolving doors on their RMA departments just because of this, OOPS I think I fried my GPU, it was working great two days ago? Do you think it was my overclock? DUH!

There are too many new so called overclockers that don’t know what the heck they’re doing in the first place posting, “Help me overclock my precious”, too lazy to study the guides for themselves and learn what they’re doing, they want someone to hold them by the hand and do it for them, If you are going to overclock learn what you’re doing first, then do it.

But above everything else take responsibility for your own actions, and learn to overclock responsibly and know when to quit and be satisfied where you’re clocked too, because that Gold Ring you’re after may be hanging just past component failure.



Taken from the original post. And that's what this Thread is about!!

And getting and taking advice from 1 source is never a good idea. Especially from a forum, where you don't know how much experience the person your getting this advice has.
a c 224 K Overclocking
December 19, 2009 10:47:02 AM

1whudson said:
Wow. I guess I've misjudged our Moderator and this whole forum in general. I was under the impression it was a place for newbies and pros alike to get together and share experiences and help on another. My mistake...................


It is most definitely a place for newbies and pros alike, however newbies will never be pros if they don't don't take their own initiative and responsibility to educate themselves to learn what they're doing.

How do you expect someone to help you here at THGF or any forum for that matter, when you haven't researched enough to understand the simple things you're being told to do.

Its the, please take me by the hand and do everything for me, I have no respect or patience for, and if you've judged me for that you are 100% correct!

However its easy to point a finger when you don't know what you are talking about.

I have spent days on days communicating with newbies at these forums to walk them through solving problems they've encountered, but every single one of them was eager to learn, they just needed some things cleared up to get where they needed to go.

I've also stopped helping dead ends that refuse to help themselves, when it became apparent I was wasting my time.

I have no problem helping someone thats willing to help themselves, my friends here can verify that.

However unless a person is truly only after a complete knowledge free ride this thread should not be offensive in the first place.
a c 197 K Overclocking
December 19, 2009 4:00:25 PM

unclefester said:
... where you don't know how much experience the person your getting this advice has.

Hey! :heink:  I've got plenty of experience, just not all of it is good. :whistle: 
!