Tom's Hardware > Forum > Graphic & Displays > Graphics Cards > 4870 1gb vs 4870 xoc black edition
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kevin1212   10-03-2008 at 11:59:10 PM

I'm looking to get either of these 2 cards, the diamond 4870 1gb or the diamond 4870 xoc black edition, but i'm not sure which would have the best value for me.

I am not going to be gaming past 1680x1050, so i was wondering if the 1gb would even be necessary, but, i was also wondering if the 1gb would help with games coming out say... 2 years from now, cause i also want something a bit futureproof.

About the black edition, i suppose that the only thing persuading me to buy it is that i hear it is very overclockable; don't really know if that is true. Even though it is factory overclocked, i'm well aware that i can overclock a regular 4870 to the same 800mhz core clock.

So, i guess my question is, can a 1gb 4870 oc as well as a black edition, if not, would a maxed out 512mb 4870 beat out a well overclocked 1gb 4870?

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pinaplex   10-04-2008 at 12:13:27 AM
- 1 +

if you're just gaming at 1680x1050, the extra memory will not affect performance as much as raw clockspeed of the black edition. if you don't plan on upgrading your monitor anytime soon, i'd go with the black edition.

also, the reason you want a factory overclock is because it is covered by a factory warranty. if you overclock a stock card, and screw it up, the warranty is out the door...

------------------------------ If fate really does exist, she hates my guys....
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dagger   10-04-2008 at 12:18:29 AM
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+1

That resolution is not enough to bottleneck 512mb of ram, by a long shot. So higher core clocked card will be faster.

------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
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grieve   10-04-2008 at 12:19:17 AM
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I have a 4870x2, the new catalyst makes overclocking the card incredibly easy...to easy in fact.

I would go with a 1gig 4870... You can’t add Ram to the black addition, but you can overclock the 1gig version.

Who knows, one day you might get a 24 inch monitor…

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dagger   10-04-2008 at 12:21:06 AM
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grieve wrote :

I have a 4870x2, the new catalyst makes overclocking the card incredibly easy...to easy in fact.

I would go with a 1gig 4870... You can’t add Ram to the black addition, but you can overclock the 1gig version.

Who knows, one day you might get a 24 inch monitor…



That's strange. Most people say it limits oc, and couldn't wait for better utilities such as Rivatuner to support 4800s.

------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
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grieve   10-04-2008 at 12:25:21 AM
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I got mine to 700 in about 30 seconds... I never tried to go higher as i leave it there forever 24/7.

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dagger   10-04-2008 at 12:28:14 AM
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grieve wrote :

I got mine to 700 in about 30 seconds... I never tried to go higher as i leave it there forever 24/7.



Doesn't 4870 run at 750mhz natively? :p

------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
 Reply to dagger
kevin1212   10-04-2008 at 12:31:26 AM
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Ok then, leaning towards the black edition. Just one quick questoin, would the 512mb come back to haunt me in the future? Same resolution. Btw, they're around the same price on amazon.

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Message edited by kevin1212 on 10-04-2008 at 12:39:04 AM
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grieve   10-04-2008 at 12:40:55 AM
- 0 +

no no.. it has a power saving mode (2D) which reduces the MHZ to 500... once playing games and such it jumps back up. mine doesnt ever go to 500 anymore.

Similar to speedstep for CPU's

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Message edited by grieve on 10-04-2008 at 12:43:11 AM
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dagger   10-04-2008 at 12:42:11 AM
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kevin1212 wrote :

Ok then, leaning towards the black edition. Just one quick questoin, would the 512mb come back to haunt me in the future? Same resolution.



Unlikely. 512mb don't run out even at 2560x1600 resolution, AA + AF.
http://hothardware.com/Articles/Po [...] R5/?page=5
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http://hothardware.com/Articles/Po [...] R5/?page=8

Note that the few fps increase of 1gb version across the board is due to it being factory overclocked (both core and ram).

------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
 Reply to dagger
dagger   10-04-2008 at 12:43:21 AM
- 0 +

grieve wrote :

no no.. it has a power saving mode (2D) which reduces the MHZ to 500... once playing games and such it jumps back up. mine doesnt ever go to 500 anymore.

Just like speedstep for CPU's



So you oced the 2d underclocked mode. What's the point of that? :p

Message quoted 1 times
------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
 Reply to dagger
jaydeejohn   10-04-2008 at 12:44:07 AM
- 0 +

If you like AA, the 1 gig is handy Look here http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid [...] Byte_VRAM/ Even at 16x10 the newer games and AA can use it, that is cards that can do AA without a huge hit, like the 4870s can. Notice the difference? This site/my link, is actually trying to use the 1gig, and new games need it. Stalker really needs it, as seen by my link


Message edited by jaydeejohn on 10-04-2008 at 12:47:56 AM
------------------------------ I went drifting, thru the capitols of tin, where men cant walk and cant freely talk, and sons turn their fathers in
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grieve   10-04-2008 at 12:46:48 AM
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dagger wrote :

So you oced the 2d underclocked mode. What's the point of that? :p


Dagger im just not certain of the 3D top end MHZ at this moment... im @ work.

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thogrom   10-04-2008 at 12:48:07 AM
- 0 +

don't get the black edition

save some money and pick up a normal one

the black edition is not stable at stock clocks

it cannot be stable at stock clocks as there is no voltage increase... that being so the only stable clocks on a black edition are the highest stable clock on a normal 4870

i had the debate when i got my 4870... and i'm glad i didn't get the black edition... normal ones are about 60 bucks less... especially after rebate... and can clock just as high... and often in CCC, if not in CCC rivatuner will do it

just don't get the black edition

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kevin1212   10-04-2008 at 12:59:07 AM
- 0 +

thogrom wrote :

don't get the black edition

save some money and pick up a normal one

the black edition is not stable at stock clocks

it cannot be stable at stock clocks as there is no voltage increase... that being so the only stable clocks on a black edition are the highest stable clock on a normal 4870

i had the debate when i got my 4870... and i'm glad i didn't get the black edition... normal ones are about 60 bucks less... especially after rebate... and can clock just as high... and often in CCC, if not in CCC rivatuner will do it

just don't get the black edition



Ok, this was one of the things i wanted to know. I would agree that the black edition isn't worth it if it can't oc any better than the regular one. If that's the case, i would either get the 1gb or regular 512mb, probably the 512mb since its about $40 less and there isn't a big jump at 1680x1050.

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jaydeejohn   10-04-2008 at 01:08:04 AM
- 0 +

Itll help in newer games, and minimum fps

------------------------------ I went drifting, thru the capitols of tin, where men cant walk and cant freely talk, and sons turn their fathers in
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dagger   10-04-2008 at 01:13:08 AM
- 0 +

kevin1212 wrote :

Ok, this was one of the things i wanted to know. I would agree that the black edition isn't worth it if it can't oc any better than the regular one. If that's the case, i would either get the 1gb or regular 512mb, probably the 512mb since its about $40 less and there isn't a big jump at 1680x1050.



Basically, get the 512mb stock version on the cheap and oc it. 1gb is not worth it. The benchmarks JayDeeJohn linked, while valid, is not practical. AA takes a lot of ram for frame buffer. So at 24x AA, 512mb runs out and the 512mb version's performance hits the deck. Being oced to 850mhz tends to increase the gap somewhat. Still, you must really like AA to run that 24x. That benchmark use atypical settings to make a point and illustrate the difference, its goal isn't to demonstrate real world performance. Lower AA used in the benchmarks I linked is a better reference for realistic performance.

------------------------------ Q6600@3.6ghz, GA-EX38-DS4 motherboard, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 4-3-3-12, 8800GTS(g92)@780mhz, 1TB + 1.5TB hdds, 850watt psu
 Reply to dagger
jaydeejohn   10-04-2008 at 01:23:53 AM
- 0 +

In GRID, at 8xAA almost a 25% bump. Some have the AA levels really high, but 8xAA isnt that high unless youre using nVidia, then it kills nVidia cards. Whats realistic is nVidia cards crap out using higher AA, so normally, thats whats been used. If you can use 8xAA, I say go for it, besides, if you look, the newer games all are using more ram, and they dont release old games, only new ones


Message edited by jaydeejohn on 10-04-2008 at 01:26:41 AM
------------------------------ I went drifting, thru the capitols of tin, where men cant walk and cant freely talk, and sons turn their fathers in
 Reply to jaydeejohn
kevin1212   10-04-2008 at 10:35:05 PM
- 0 +

Well, if the 1gb version comes down in price a bit, i would get that. A few days ago, it was on amazon for $290. If it ever comes back down to that price i would certainly get it, considering that there is indeed a slight up in performance, along with better AA performance (even at my resolution). Some reviews even said future games with more textures would make good use of the 1gb. But as long as the gap in price is still $40, i would have to settle for the 512mb version.

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reasonablevoice   11-24-2008 at 01:57:59 PM
- 0 +

To the person who said it is not worth it to get the 1gb version, I say you are wrong.

I don't have time to find the link but go search guru3d and read the review for the 4870 1gb version.

Actually, let me show you this:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/far- [...] e-review/5

At the highest resolution in Far Cry 2 the game is not even playable with the 4870 512 while it is over 30fps with the 1gb version.

The 1gb version maintains a distinct lead over the 512mb version from 1600x1200 up.

I know I plan to run my 4870 1gb for at least the next couple years and if you look at the trend in games they are more and more pushing up against that 512mb frame buffer. The new Nvidia cards also have large frame buffers so I think you'll see game developers less afraid of shrinking their market and making games that push past the 512mb buffer at higher settings. Far Cry 2 at the highest resolution is the tip of the iceburg in this area.

The price difference really isn't so great for a card you may be likely to run for two years, do not limit yourself

Reply to reasonablevoice
joshua c   04-22-2009 at 01:49:13 AM
- 0 +

Dont buy an overcloked edition from dimond I have had 2 that have failed ( RMA ed the origenal and the replacement failed.) The best OC cards as far as stability are the palit 4870 sonic dule editions. they come in both 512 and 1 gig. they have aftermarket cooling, and 2 bioses 1 overcloked biose and 1 non overcloked biose. so if u screw up on a biose flash you have an extra.

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