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Bruce W Economy Bans Community Leaders on Bria

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November 18, 2004 2:07:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Hello,

We appreciated you contacting us and letting us know that you were the one
responsible for starting the "fight club" groups. While we feel it was very
noble of you to admit to it, it still does not reverse the fact what you did
was an exploit. I cannot begin to claim I know your thinking process and I
do not want to belittle you, however, our policies on exploiting state that
if you are benefiting from something in game in a way that is not intended,
it is an exploit. If you are not sure of something, then we expect you to
ask. A good rule of thumb is that if you question the validity of something,
then it is most likely not intentional and could be deemed as an exploit.

The decision to terminate accounts came not only from Customer Service
Management, but Development as well. We do not tolerate exploitation and we
will terminate accounts that are found abusing such exploits. Your accounts
will remain terminated without the possibility for appeal. Additionally,
this decision is not open for debate or discussion and is considered closed.

Sincerely,

Bruce W Economy

CS Supervisor

Star Wars Galaxies

Sony Online Entertainment

beconomy@soe.sony.com
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 2:07:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Max wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> beconomy@soe.sony.com
>

Were they actually exploiting?
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 2:07:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:07:32 GMT, "Max" <maximus@portvista.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>We appreciated you contacting us and letting us know that you were the one
>responsible for starting the "fight club" groups. While we feel it was very
>noble of you to admit to it, it still does not reverse the fact what you did
>was an exploit. I cannot begin to claim I know your thinking process and I
>do not want to belittle you, however, our policies on exploiting state that
>if you are benefiting from something in game in a way that is not intended,
>it is an exploit. If you are not sure of something, then we expect you to
>ask. A good rule of thumb is that if you question the validity of something,
>then it is most likely not intentional and could be deemed as an exploit.
>
>The decision to terminate accounts came not only from Customer Service
>Management, but Development as well. We do not tolerate exploitation and we
>will terminate accounts that are found abusing such exploits. Your accounts
>will remain terminated without the possibility for appeal. Additionally,
>this decision is not open for debate or discussion and is considered closed.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bruce W Economy
>
>CS Supervisor
>
>Star Wars Galaxies
>
>Sony Online Entertainment
>
>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>

Rather one sided.....

I'd like to know what was done that was called an exploit. I mean if
it's something obvious then there isn't any need for raising a ruckus.
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 2:07:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
> Max wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>
>
> Were they actually exploiting?

Yeah - I too would be interested in hearing more about what they were
actually doin
November 18, 2004 7:57:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

<Skinner1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:li5op0d3ueh5g999uh2t5ccnfc00251mfd@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:07:32 GMT, "Max" <maximus@portvista.com> wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >We appreciated you contacting us and letting us know that you were the
one
> >responsible for starting the "fight club" groups. While we feel it was
very
> >noble of you to admit to it, it still does not reverse the fact what you
did
> >was an exploit. I cannot begin to claim I know your thinking process and
I
> >do not want to belittle you, however, our policies on exploiting state
that
> >if you are benefiting from something in game in a way that is not
intended,
> >it is an exploit. If you are not sure of something, then we expect you to
> >ask. A good rule of thumb is that if you question the validity of
something,
> >then it is most likely not intentional and could be deemed as an exploit.
> >
> >The decision to terminate accounts came not only from Customer Service
> >Management, but Development as well. We do not tolerate exploitation and
we
> >will terminate accounts that are found abusing such exploits. Your
accounts
> >will remain terminated without the possibility for appeal. Additionally,
> >this decision is not open for debate or discussion and is considered
closed.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Bruce W Economy
> >
> >CS Supervisor
> >
> >Star Wars Galaxies
> >
> >Sony Online Entertainment
> >
> >beconomy@soe.sony.com
> >
>
> Rather one sided.....
>
> I'd like to know what was done that was called an exploit. I mean if
> it's something obvious then there isn't any need for raising a ruckus.
>
>

Hypothetical scenario....

Jedi Knight John Doe deathblows Jedi Knight Jane Doe. John Doe receives 400
FRS xp. Jane Doe loses 300 FRS
Jane Doe then deathblows John Doe. Jane Doe receives 400 FRS xp and John
Doe loses 300 FRS.

They both have a net gain of 100 FRS xp. Rinse, lather, repeat, and you
have the first Jedi Master ever on Bria when it should be impossible at this
stage of the game.

This occured before the FRS revamp when non Force Sensatives would lay down
and take a death against a Knight to improve their FRS standing.
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 11:03:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
> Max wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>
>
> Were they actually exploiting?

Trading deaths to increase there FRS
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 12:05:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Got both the devs and the CS folks banning you? Yeah, that's an exploit.
I agree with them. This is called "rigging the game." It's illegal in
all sports.

CH
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 2:41:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

David Cherry wrote:
> "Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
> news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
>
>>Max wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>>
>>
>>Were they actually exploiting?
>
>
> Trading deaths to increase there FRS
>
>
Sounds like an exploit to me.

What's the fuss about, that it took SoE so long to get around to doing
the ban?
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 6:19:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Roberta wrote:

> "Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
> news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
>
>>Max wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>>
>>
>>Were they actually exploiting?
>
>
> Yeah - I too would be interested in hearing more about what they were
> actually doin
>
>
>

In short, they rigged fights so that certain jedi characters could win
many fights in a row, and therefore advance in Jedi rank quickly with no
risk. I presume that they either used sacrificial jedi knights (alts who
always lost), or otherwise noticed that the benefits of this system
outweighed the penalties.

In short, they rigged fights to allow jedi to advance in the Jedi
rankings quickly and with no risk.

CH
November 18, 2004 8:47:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:19:05 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Roberta wrote:
>
>> "Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
>> news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
>>
>>>Max wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>Were they actually exploiting?
>>
>>
>> Yeah - I too would be interested in hearing more about what they were
>> actually doin
>>
>>
>>
>
>In short, they rigged fights so that certain jedi characters could win
>many fights in a row, and therefore advance in Jedi rank quickly with no
>risk. I presume that they either used sacrificial jedi knights (alts who
>always lost), or otherwise noticed that the benefits of this system
>outweighed the penalties.
>
>In short, they rigged fights to allow jedi to advance in the Jedi
>rankings quickly and with no risk.
>
>CH

Thats an exploit? Doesnt sound much different from getting buffs that
make you invulnerable and killing mobs with no risk. Sounds to me the
Devs shoulda been fired for such shoddy game mechanics. Ahh wait this
SWG they prob got promoted.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 2:07:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:47:33 -0600, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:19:05 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> "Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
>>> news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
>>>
>>>>Max wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Were they actually exploiting?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah - I too would be interested in hearing more about what they were
>>> actually doin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>In short, they rigged fights so that certain jedi characters could win
>>many fights in a row, and therefore advance in Jedi rank quickly with no
>>risk. I presume that they either used sacrificial jedi knights (alts who
>>always lost), or otherwise noticed that the benefits of this system
>>outweighed the penalties.
>>
>>In short, they rigged fights to allow jedi to advance in the Jedi
>>rankings quickly and with no risk.
>>
>>CH
>
>Thats an exploit? Doesnt sound much different from getting buffs that
>make you invulnerable and killing mobs with no risk. Sounds to me the
>Devs shoulda been fired for such shoddy game mechanics. Ahh wait this
>SWG they prob got promoted.

There is quite a difference.

Buffs work AS INTENDED.

It doesn't take much mental power to realize that this is NOT the way
the game mechanics were intended to work. There are always a few that
will stretch the limits... and Bless them! Without them we wouldn't
know where to improve to defeat the devious.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 2:07:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:05:07 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Got both the devs and the CS folks banning you? Yeah, that's an exploit.
>I agree with them. This is called "rigging the game." It's illegal in
>all sports.
>
>CH


Bravo. Well Said!
November 19, 2004 2:52:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

We are taking a stand now on Bria, all factions, and most guilds. Here is a
timeline of the events as of yesterday. This is poor a protest about how SOE
is handling their customer support. Whether you agree or disagree, the point
is these people were banned without warning, and after being told by various
CSR's that it was ok. We have had CSR actually being present during the
supposed exploit.

-Dare

-------------------------

- Fight Club is formed to advance players through the FRS system.
- CSRs are contacted to check that what we are al planning is not considered
an exploit.
- Most jedi lose interest as there are no noticeable benefits for most
players.
- The few jedi that continue to par-take in fight are banned without
warning. Five in total.
- Mark Sharron contacts Bruce Economy / Tom Lockhard: emails attached. He
apologizes.
He advises Bruce Economy / Tom Lockhard that he was not aware that what they
were doing was considered an exploit. He advises the Bruce Economy / Tom
Lockhard that he has contacted all parties involved, 24 jedi in total and
got them to surrender their FRS skill boxes negating all benefits the
characters received.

- Bruce Economy emails Mark Sharron back one week later and advises him that
access to his account has been removed for admitting to exploiting: emails
attached. Multiple emails are exchanged and it is concluded that SOE's CSR
team has acted unreasonably.

- Mark Sharron organizes the Bria community to email Bruce Economy stating
that treatment of himself and his fellow players was unjust.
- The SWG forums come under heavy moderation. Any post related to this issue
are deleted and the forum accounts suspended or banned.
- Bruce Economy replies to all emails with a generic response.
- An in game protest is organized. Multiple guilds meet in Theed at 6pm PST.
- At first we are told not to spam. Two of our number are teleported away.
- We line up and stand silently. We are all teleported to LoK.
- We return to Theed and mingle with the crowd. We are all teleported to Lok
including innocent passers bye.
- We are advised large groupings dealt with. We split into groups of four
and disperse through-out the galaxy to continue our protest. We all give
teleported back to Lok and are frozen for an hour and suspended.
- All other jedi and all of their alts have had access to their characters
removed. That's over 50 accounts minimum.

Mark Sharron (Sokah)
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 11:53:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:05:07 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Got both the devs and the CS folks banning you? Yeah, that's an exploit.
>>I agree with them. This is called "rigging the game." It's illegal in
>>all sports.
>>
>>CH
>
>
>
> Bravo. Well Said!

Yeah. Once you realize that the Jedi rankings act as a sports ladder,
the whole problem gets quite clear.

CH
November 19, 2004 10:24:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

The CSR's said it was legal.


"Clawhound" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:kXmnd.1996$Ny6.3091@mencken.net.nih.gov...
> Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:05:07 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Got both the devs and the CS folks banning you? Yeah, that's an exploit.
>>>I agree with them. This is called "rigging the game." It's illegal in all
>>>sports.
>>>
>>>CH
>>
>>
>>
>> Bravo. Well Said!
>
> Yeah. Once you realize that the Jedi rankings act as a sports ladder, the
> whole problem gets quite clear.
>
> CH
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 10:24:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Max wrote:

> The CSR's said it was legal.
>
>
> "Clawhound" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:kXmnd.1996$Ny6.3091@mencken.net.nih.gov...
>
>>Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:05:07 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Got both the devs and the CS folks banning you? Yeah, that's an exploit.
>>>>I agree with them. This is called "rigging the game." It's illegal in all
>>>>sports.
>>>>
>>>>CH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bravo. Well Said!
>>
>>Yeah. Once you realize that the Jedi rankings act as a sports ladder, the
>>whole problem gets quite clear.
>>
>>CH
>
>
>

The CSR's are constanly ragged for being uninformed idiots. So the fight
club organizers then go to them to ask if something is an exploit or
not? And they are surprised that the CSRs gave them the wrong answer?

Was this handled well? No. Not a big surprise there. SOE's draconian.
But let's face it, the organizers were idiots. They went to the
totalitarian administration to ask if something was illegal. Dumb move.
There are lots of non-SOE place to ask people, "Is this bannable?" There
are more than enough players who would answer "Hell yes" to give the
organizers good pause for thought.

CH
November 19, 2004 10:24:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
>
> The CSR's are constanly ragged for being uninformed idiots. So the fight
> club organizers then go to them to ask if something is an exploit or
> not? And they are surprised that the CSRs gave them the wrong answer?
>
> Was this handled well? No. Not a big surprise there. SOE's draconian.
> But let's face it, the organizers were idiots. They went to the
> totalitarian administration to ask if something was illegal. Dumb move.
> There are lots of non-SOE place to ask people, "Is this bannable?" There
> are more than enough players who would answer "Hell yes" to give the
> organizers good pause for thought.
>
> CH

You're kidding me right? You're honestly saying that these people should
have gone to non-SOE places to find out if something is bannable or not?
That's stupid. No one but SOE knows, and assuming they really did go to
CSRs first, they don't even know (which is another problem all
together). What you just suggested is paramount to telling someone that
isn't sure if a business practice is illegal or not to go to some random
website and ask on the forums as opposed to going to a lawyer. Are
lawyers right 100% of the time? Nope, but they're sure as hell a better
source than self-proclaimed know-it-alls on the web.

nib
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 10:58:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Reply to message from "Sartori" <charlesbevels@bellsouth.net> (Thu, 18 Nov
2004 12:57:00) about "Re: Bruce W Economy Bans Community Leaders on Bria":

S> Hypothetical scenario....

S> Jedi Knight John Doe deathblows Jedi Knight Jane Doe....*SNIP*

You can fill that with names: Akemi (founder), Technics, Sapoelc, Jekai,
Ced, and even more...i have a list iin ingame notepad.

And I have another example...let's use ME for that:

I am playing on BRIA since the games was available in germany, so like 16
months or so. I learn holocrons are the way to become jedi, so I start
grinding....after 20+ professions (close to unlock...so close) SOE changes
the way to become jedi. WTF? Well...ok..becoming glowy, 3 unlocks, grinding
3.5 million FSxp like nuts and *BANG*...jedi...finally...took me more than
16 months of playing. Ok, grinding again (only novice on all skills as of
today)...but lets go on with this example. Making it to Knight one day
(maybe another 6 or more months).

Then i join a fightclub, where imp and reb knights meet on a guildhall roof
and kill each other in a "fixed" order? WTF? Come on guys...you should'nt
just been banned..you should have been punched in the face as well several
times. You don't deserve having a jedi.

I hate any kind of cheating or exploiting, i didnt even log out in a "safe
house" on endor this morning cuz i was unsure if this house was legal, as
it is the only player house on endor, lol. I killed 6 bh so far, got killed
by other players due to the bh-tef twice, got killed by a "runner" bh
yesterday...I always cloned. And then LFD/FoE start protesting all over
bria? Seems i was again proved right with my thoughts about t ose "guilds".
I liked a lot of these banned jedi (Sapoelc to name first), but cmon. You
guys broke the rules, cheated, exploited, however you like to name it..its
not as it was INTENDED to be. I always tried to play this game as it was
ment to be played (i hope)..you should try that too. Where's the sense to
reach toplevel (jedi master) as fast as possible? To quickly move on to EQ2
or WoW? I'm trying to have fun with swg for as long as it lasts.

Bye
Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de> Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:10:19 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
November 19, 2004 10:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

They thought it was an exploit too, that's why they got the approval of the
CSR's first. Well, they changed their minds and started banning without
warning.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 10:58:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

Reply to message from "Max" <maximus@portvista.com> (Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:
07:32) about "Bruce W Economy Bans Community Leaders on Bria":


So they finally got you too, huh Akemi? Never liked you much...running all
the time like a coward, then having a big mouth when you came back with
your ganksquad...lol Pity that the only good fight we ever had in AH) was
interrupted by serverdown. I highly appreciate what you were trying to do
though...to trade in your account to unban the others.../verydeepbow!

As i wrote in the forums i find it kinda dumb to permaban all those people.
Bannation? Yes, for lets say up to 10 weeks, based on their (cheated) FRS
rank. Then strip all of them back down to initiate...woulda been enough i
guess. A lot of you made enough "friends" to be punished for a VERY long
time and several million xp in the negatives by THEM, lol. Anyway...bye

M> Hello,

M> We appreciated you contacting us and letting us know that you were the
M> one responsible for starting the "fight club" groups. While we feel it
M> was very noble of you to admit to it, it still does not reverse the
M> fact what you did was an exploit. I cannot begin to claim I know your
M> thinking process and I do not want to belittle you, however, our
M> policies on exploiting state that if you are benefiting from something
M> in game in a way that is not intended, it is an exploit. If you are not
M> sure of something, then we expect you to ask. A good rule of thumb is
M> that if you question the validity of something, then it is most likely
M> not intentional and could be deemed as an exploit.

M> The decision to terminate accounts came not only from Customer Service
M> Management, but Development as well. We do not tolerate exploitation
M> and we will terminate accounts that are found abusing such exploits.
M> Your accounts will remain terminated without the possibility for
M> appeal. Additionally, this decision is not open for debate or
M> discussion and is considered closed.

M> Sincerely,

M> Bruce W Economy

M> CS Supervisor

M> Star Wars Galaxies

M> Sony Online Entertainment

M> beconomy@soe.sony.com





Bye
Dirk Pfeiffer <dirk@dbx501.de> Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:39:25 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
November 20, 2004 9:03:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:07:06 -0500, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:47:33 -0600, Ringo <Ringo@noon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:19:05 -0500, Clawhound <none@nowhere.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Roberta wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Tyas" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.commies> wrote in message
>>>> news:ZaCdncJsHrHkfAbcRVn-tw@vallnet.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Max wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>beconomy@soe.sony.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Were they actually exploiting?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah - I too would be interested in hearing more about what they were
>>>> actually doin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>In short, they rigged fights so that certain jedi characters could win
>>>many fights in a row, and therefore advance in Jedi rank quickly with no
>>>risk. I presume that they either used sacrificial jedi knights (alts who
>>>always lost), or otherwise noticed that the benefits of this system
>>>outweighed the penalties.
>>>
>>>In short, they rigged fights to allow jedi to advance in the Jedi
>>>rankings quickly and with no risk.
>>>
>>>CH
>>
>>Thats an exploit? Doesnt sound much different from getting buffs that
>>make you invulnerable and killing mobs with no risk. Sounds to me the
>>Devs shoulda been fired for such shoddy game mechanics. Ahh wait this
>>SWG they prob got promoted.
>
>There is quite a difference.
>
>Buffs work AS INTENDED.
>
>It doesn't take much mental power to realize that this is NOT the way
>the game mechanics were intended to work. There are always a few that
>will stretch the limits... and Bless them! Without them we wouldn't
>know where to improve to defeat the devious.
>
Banable exploits are most commonly those that involved duping money or
items, its been that way for years though several games Ive seen.

Working as intended is the lamest excuse devs though out. How do I
know what your intentions are?
Did they say "Hey guys break this fight club up its not what we
intended"? NO!
Were they duping credits? NO!
Were they duping items? NO!
So why the bans? Cause the players were doing nothing and I mean
nothing that can be coded out other than not allowing any buffing or
healing from anyone outside your faction. The going LD issue is
common practice to get buffs when you are overt. Many say this game is
so damn broken they cant fix this. Anyone with any insight to how
these types of games work knows this about SWG. The game is an
industry wide joke that exists purely though its ties to Star Wars.
Yes I know 200k accounts exist, but from a craftsmanship point of
view its horrid. Call this game anything else other than Star Wars
and it would have folded by now.

Basicaly it adds up to if 50 people are doing it then its an exploit
if 50000 are doing it its working as intended till it gets nerfed.
Poor game design and lame judgement on SoEs part is my call. Either
way bans were uncalled for in any resonable persons book.

Only good thing about this is that many of the banned players can go
play WoW in a few days.
November 20, 2004 9:27:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:52:30 GMT, "Max" <maximus@portvista.com> wrote:

>We are taking a stand now on Bria, all factions, and most guilds. Here is a
>timeline of the events as of yesterday. This is poor a protest about how SOE
>is handling their customer support. Whether you agree or disagree, the point
>is these people were banned without warning, and after being told by various
>CSR's that it was ok. We have had CSR actually being present during the
>supposed exploit.
>
>-Dare
>
>-------------------------
>
>- Fight Club is formed to advance players through the FRS system.
>- CSRs are contacted to check that what we are al planning is not considered
>an exploit.
>- Most jedi lose interest as there are no noticeable benefits for most
>players.
>- The few jedi that continue to par-take in fight are banned without
>warning. Five in total.
>- Mark Sharron contacts Bruce Economy / Tom Lockhard: emails attached. He
>apologizes.
>He advises Bruce Economy / Tom Lockhard that he was not aware that what they
>were doing was considered an exploit. He advises the Bruce Economy / Tom
>Lockhard that he has contacted all parties involved, 24 jedi in total and
>got them to surrender their FRS skill boxes negating all benefits the
>characters received.
>
>- Bruce Economy emails Mark Sharron back one week later and advises him that
>access to his account has been removed for admitting to exploiting: emails
>attached. Multiple emails are exchanged and it is concluded that SOE's CSR
>team has acted unreasonably.
>
>- Mark Sharron organizes the Bria community to email Bruce Economy stating
>that treatment of himself and his fellow players was unjust.
>- The SWG forums come under heavy moderation. Any post related to this issue
>are deleted and the forum accounts suspended or banned.
>- Bruce Economy replies to all emails with a generic response.
>- An in game protest is organized. Multiple guilds meet in Theed at 6pm PST.
>- At first we are told not to spam. Two of our number are teleported away.
>- We line up and stand silently. We are all teleported to LoK.
>- We return to Theed and mingle with the crowd. We are all teleported to Lok
>including innocent passers bye.
>- We are advised large groupings dealt with. We split into groups of four
>and disperse through-out the galaxy to continue our protest. We all give
>teleported back to Lok and are frozen for an hour and suspended.
>- All other jedi and all of their alts have had access to their characters
>removed. That's over 50 accounts minimum.
>
>Mark Sharron (Sokah)
>

Hats off to you guys though its kind of like the mouse flipping off
the eagle right before it gets eaten. When you get tired of this , or
you all get banned, come play WoW or Guild Wars. The PvP is well
designed and (gasp!) theres excellent content in WoW. Best thing is
Sony doesnt make a dime off it and that my friends is the final way to
strike back. Besides you get to kill elves and halflings what more can
you ask? ;) 
November 20, 2004 3:33:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.starwarsgalaxies (More info?)

"Max" <maximus@portvista.com> wrote in message
news:xKrnd.16171$Oc.14669@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> They thought it was an exploit too, that's why they got the approval of
the
> CSR's first. Well, they changed their minds and started banning without
> warning.
>
>

Seeking the approval of a questionable in-game action by a CSR is definitely
not the way to go. There have been many a discussion on the Tarquinas
boards where one CSR would say something is ok and another would say it's
not. These people should have PMed a developer such as Tiggs or
Thunderheart for a more definite answer.
!