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NB Voltage and overclocking to 3.8ghz

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December 12, 2009 4:23:38 PM

I have the following setup...

Asus M4A79XTD MB
AMD PH II X4 955 3.2ghz BE
Sunbeam freezer with AS5
Saphire Radeon 4890
4gb Gskill PC 1600 DDR3
2x 1 TB Seagate HD (Raid 1)
Antec 300 case with extra fans (all air exiting the case is cool)
500w Thermaltake psu

After much research, I have been able to get a stable overclock of 200 x17 (2200 HT, 2200 NB) at 1.4v cpu, 1.175 cpu/nb (stable prime 95 for hours, max load 52c). However, if I push much beyond that, I prime95 usually wont last longer than a few minutes.

My question is - I have read that I should be running between 1.175-1.25v for my cpu/nb, but the problem is my bios has THREE "NB voltage settings", they are...

CPU/NB Volt
NB Volt
NB 1.8 Volt

Assuming I am aiming for a 3.8ghz overclock, can anyone tell me what THOSE THREE voltages should be? I also imagine I might need to bump up my cpu voltage higher than 1.4v, but I have heard people say they get to 3.8 stable at 1.4 by only bumping their NB voltage...

*BTW do my ram settings matter when overclocking? I am currently 1600hz at 1.5v 9-9-9-24 timings.

Thanks in advance!
December 13, 2009 5:25:19 PM

Anyone have experience with the NB?
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December 14, 2009 3:31:39 AM

Try this :

CPU @ 1.39/1.4v
CPU/NB @ 1.25v or 1.3v if you are overclocking your HT clock (FSB)
NB @ 1.38/1.39v

HT Link Speed I would set to 2000 if you are overclocking your HT clock (FSB) if not I would set it to 2200mhz........

Disable CIE, Cool & Quiet, Gart and Advanced Clock Calibration. Leave everything else ENABLED......Leave bank interleaving and channel interleaving at auto....

Play with your voltages till you find a stable system.... hope this helps ;) 

Leave your ram alone for now, later on when your system is stable at the desired clock you can play with the ram...
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December 14, 2009 4:13:41 AM

Wow NB at NB @ 1.38/1.39v ? You sure that wont get too hot? My asus mb doesnt have a fan on the nb, just a fancy heatsink...
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December 14, 2009 4:55:44 AM

YOu could always ghetto mod a fan on there.
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December 14, 2009 5:14:23 AM

My NB is at 1.425v right now... At load it won't reach 55c. It all depends on the board, that's why I said play with the voltages till you find your sweet spot =)
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December 14, 2009 5:17:05 AM

overshocked said:
YOu could always ghetto mod a fan on there.


sup sup, I saw xtc the other day... he is hardly on anymore :( 
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December 14, 2009 5:45:48 AM

OvrClkr said:
sup sup, I saw xtc the other day... he is hardly on anymore :( 


Oh i know, havnt seen him on in months...

im sure things will slow down during the holidays, maybe even enough so that he can grace us with his presence. [:jaydeejohn:4]
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December 14, 2009 6:43:38 AM

zealengine said:
Anyone have experience with the NB?


Forgot to add that you need to raise the CPU multiplier (frequency) to x19 for 3.8Ghz, this is obvious but I just wanted throw it out there. You can also lower the multi and raise the FSB also, but that can be done later.
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December 14, 2009 5:31:29 PM

Ok I am running a prime95 stress test right now. What I decided to do is get my cpu to 3.8ghz first, then worry about the ht/nb freq and clocks. Will this work? Will I be able to get a stabel system by leaving everythign at defaults, and just raising the cpu multiplier & cpu voltage? Or do I need to riase everything together?

(I kinda want to do it this way so I can find the minimum cpu voltage I need to run at 3.8ghz, since temp is a huge conern for me).
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December 14, 2009 5:41:21 PM

Your temps will be fine, the only way your CPU will overheat is by giving it too much juice when it's not really needed. Try the above settings and work your way down. In the end you will find the exact voltage needed for that specific clock. You can start with 1.35v if you want as well but I cannot guarantee that it will be stable at 3.8Ghz. It all depends if your board likes more/less volts...
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December 14, 2009 6:55:36 PM

Ok when I get to overclocking the nb I will start at your recommended volts and work my way down. In the meantime, I should be ok just working with the cpu multiplier and cpu voltage untill I get stable 3.8ghz (things should be stable even with everything else at defaults right)? THEN I will worry about nb/ht/ram ect...
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December 14, 2009 7:08:27 PM

Not exactly, you want to maintain the NB volts close to the CPU volts, meaning if you have a CPU voltage of 1.38v then your NB voltage should be around the 1.36/1.37/1.38v as well, don't leave your NB on auto after 3.6Ghz...

It is normal to start off with a high voltage rate and gradually go lower until stability is found (at least voltage possible). I do it both ways, depending on CPU....
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December 14, 2009 7:38:10 PM

*mini status update

Prime 95 was crashing in a few minutes at x18 (3600ghz) with cpu 1.4v (everything else at defaults. I tried bumping my cpu/nb volt and nb volt to 1.25 - and I still crashed in about 5min.

HOWEVER, I just tried upping my cpu volt to 1.425, and lowered everything else back to default. Seems much more stable now. Been running prim95 for over 30min no crash (will let it run for another hour or so before I try x18.5). CPU temps max at 50c.

So it seems like my cpu voltage is more important than my cpu/nb voltage for some reason. However I will still try upping cpu/nb as you suggest (now that I am going beyond 3.6ghz).

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December 14, 2009 7:55:33 PM

Your system crashed cause you cannot have the multiplier at x18 and everything else on auto, that is why I told you to keep the CPU and NB volts close to each other for maximum stability.

Here is how I run my x2 550 / x4 B50 :

CPU multi at x17.5
CPU voltage at 1.425
NB at 1.4v
CPU/NB at 1.3v
FSB at 230

Full 24 hour prime stable.....

If you are not going to raise the FSB then leave the CPU/NB on 1.2 (default)
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December 14, 2009 9:30:56 PM

Quote:
If you are not going to raise the FSB then leave the CPU/NB on 1.2 (default)


Why would it matter if I modify the fsb or just manipulate the multiplier? I didnt think there was any difference. Besides it was my understanding that these cpus dont even have a fsb - the 'fsb' is really just a number, nothing more, that the cpu multiplier, nb multiplier, ect... use to determine their final frequency. Is that not right?

But I will try lowering my cpu v and upping my cpu/nb and nb volts... cross your fingers...

*btw you want me to leave the nb/ht freq at default for all this right? (default is currently 2000hz for both nb and ht)
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December 14, 2009 10:33:45 PM

zealengine said:
Quote:
If you are not going to raise the FSB then leave the CPU/NB on 1.2 (default)


Why would it matter if I modify the fsb or just manipulate the multiplier? I didnt think there was any difference. Besides it was my understanding that these cpus dont even have a fsb - the 'fsb' is really just a number, nothing more, that the cpu multiplier, nb multiplier, ect... use to determine their final frequency. Is that not right?

But I will try lowering my cpu v and upping my cpu/nb and nb volts... cross your fingers...

*btw you want me to leave the nb/ht freq at default for all this right? (default is currently 2000hz for both nb and ht)


Look, there is MUCH more to overclocking than you think... I am giving you an idea of what you can do to get a moderate overclock. There 2 different ways of doing this, you can either raise the multiplier and CPU voltage alone or you can lower the multiplier and raise the FSB (bus). If you decide to raise the bus you will also raise the CPU frequency as well. Some boards and CPU's acquire a stable overclock my just raising the CPU multi only while others love FSB. So it is a matter of you playing around for a few hours till you find the sweet-spot. Nothing is going to happen to the PC as long as you don't overvolt. Here is a very good tutorial that should help you understand more :

http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/6030-how-am...
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December 14, 2009 10:39:51 PM

Argg I am just not having any luck raising cpu/nb or nb voltage. It just doesnt seem to matter.

I am currently running 225 x 16.5 (nb and ht running at 2250hz), cpu voltage 1.425, nb/cpu voltage 1.3v, nb volt 1.3v. I can boot to windows just fine, but I crash withing 5 seconds of prime95.

Earlier I tried 200x18 with cpu voltage at 1.4375, and all other options on auto (yes auto), and I was able to run prime 95 for over 30min before a crash. It just feels like the onlything that seems to help is upping my cpu voltage. I am 99% sure if I up my voltage to something like 1.47+ I would be able to run at x18 no problem... im a little worried to go that high though since my temps are already at 52c.
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December 14, 2009 11:21:46 PM

1.47 is way to high for 3.6Ghz. Again, look at your NB, why are you leaving the NB at 1.3v while the CPU is at 1.47? There is way too much of a gap in between..

You should be able to get 3.6Ghz with 1.37/1.38v on the CPU...

Run a stress test at 3.6Ghz and don't give it more than 1.38v on the CPU.

Do you know how to take screenshots?
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December 15, 2009 12:23:41 AM

Quote:
1.47 is way to high for 3.6Ghz. Again, look at your NB, why are you leaving the NB at 1.3v while the CPU is at 1.47? There is way too much of a gap in between..


Are you 100% sure the two need to be in lockstep? I mean when you think about it one is running at 3.8ghz, while the other is running at 2.2-2.4ghz, so if the frequencies are that off, why do the voltages need to be 1:1? All the research I have read up to this point suggests a much lower voltage for your cpu/nb...

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=621053

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=594100

And I cant even run prime95 for 5 seconds at 3.6ghz with my cpu volt at 1.38.

*I just tried 200x18.5 with 1.46v cpu 1.3v cpu/nb all rest on auto (so 2000hz nb and 2000hz ht). I was able to run a torture test for over an hour, but eventually my machine did reset (temps were around 53-54c max). If I lower my cpu volt down to just 1.45 I cant last more than 3 minutes.
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December 15, 2009 12:42:08 AM

You are comparing your Evo vs. a GD70, they are both very different in a way. Not all boards overclock with the same values.

If you look closely at his signature you will see where he is at 3.5Ghz with "stock" volts that means that he is at 1.3/1.32v flat. Looks like your CPU is volt hungry cause like I said 1.47 is almost 1.5v, normally that amount is used for an overclock of 4.2Ghz give or take...
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December 15, 2009 12:51:08 AM

Leave the NB at 1.3v and do this :

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December 15, 2009 1:29:04 AM

My last oc attempt was almost identical...

(this is EVERY setting in my 'Advanced - JumperFree config' in bios)

cpu bus freq - 200
pcie freq 100

cpu ratio - 18.5
cpu/nb freq - 2400hz
cpu voltage - 1.45v
cpu/nb voltage - 1.3v
cpu vdda volt - AUTO

HT linkspeed - 2200hz
HT linkwidth - AUTO
HT Volt - AUTO

DRAM freq - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 666hz)
DRAM Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.6v)
(all timings auto, amd overdrive shows 9-9-9-24)

NB Volt - 1.3v (it turns ORANGE when I set it this high)
NB 1.8v - AUTO
SB Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.35v, which is max... odd)

Booted into windows just fine (have yet to have trouble booting into windows). Ran prime95 torture test, lasted about 3min, only got up to 52c, then screen went black, and auto reset.

So unless INCREASING my cpu bus freq from 200 to 205 and/or increasing my multiplier to 19 will make things MORE stable (dont see how that is possible), your suggested settings wont work either. I will still try them if you want though...

*I really appreciate all your help btw!
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December 15, 2009 2:50:37 AM

yea my bad, I was confusing my Asrock Bios with My Asus Bios.... You were right and I was wrong about the NB volts. The thing is that one of my boards has an Nvidia chipset and you have to raise the NB volts pretty high to get a stable clock, that is not the case with the Asus.....
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December 15, 2009 3:15:21 AM

Hrmm well I rolled back to the following...

cpu bus freq - 200
pcie freq 100

cpu ratio - 18.0
cpu/nb freq - 2400hz
cpu voltage - 1.45v
cpu/nb voltage - 1.25v
cpu vdda volt - AUTO

HT linkspeed - 2200hz
HT linkwidth - AUTO
HT Volt - AUTO

DRAM freq - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 666hz)
DRAM Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.6v)
(all timings auto, amd overdrive shows 9-9-9-24)

NB Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.1v)
NB 1.8v - AUTO
SB Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.35v, which is max... odd)

Been running prime95 for 3-4 hours, solid as a rock (53c max).

But I really want to hit 3.8ghz... any ideas? Should I just keep upping my cpu voltage? Or is there something else I could try.
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December 15, 2009 3:23:00 AM

Dude your RAM cannot be set to AUTO, you need to manually set the TIMINGS/DRAM FREQUENCY and DRAM voltage as specified by the manufacturer. I thought you had done this already.....

Change the frequency from AUTO (666) to 800Mhz

Then change the timings to whatever your RAM states.

And last but not least change the DRAM voltage to whatever your RAM states as well...

Can you specify what model RAM you purchased?
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December 15, 2009 4:02:28 AM

This is my ram (all my stuff is listed on the first post)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...(Desktop+Memory)-_-G.SKILL-_-20231193

it appears to have the correct default timings (9-9-9-24), its just underclocked to 666 instead of 800 (according to amd overdrive it is also OVERVOLTED to 1.6v, but I cant imagine that would hurt anything). I can try bumping it up to 800... you dont think thats whats giving me trouble when I go past x18 do you?

*btw prime95 still running strong at the above settings.
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December 15, 2009 4:34:51 AM

If you do not set your RAM settings manually YES you will eventually hit a wall because all the values have to be correct or otherwise you will have no stability.

Set you timings to 9-9-9-24

The ram can stay at 666Mhz

Voltage at 1.5v, no need to overvolt the ram for now...
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December 15, 2009 5:05:24 AM

But 666hz 9-9-9-24 IS what its at now (at least according to amd overdrive). I suppose I can try manually inputting those values... So what should I try setting everything else too (cpu volt, multiplier, ect...)?
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December 15, 2009 5:41:52 AM

Give it 1.45v on the CPU and multi at x19, leave the FSB at 200 for now....

Once stable you can lower the CPU voltage to find out how low it will go w/o crashing

And yes, you need to manually set those RAM values.....

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December 15, 2009 6:50:36 PM

As I said 7 posts up, 1.45 cpu volts isnt even enough to run at x18.5 (remember I can do .5 increments, so until we get 18.5 working, dont worry about 19).

I just tested those settings again...

cpu bus freq - 200
pcie freq 100

cpu ratio - 18.5
cpu/nb freq - 2400hz
cpu voltage - 1.45v
cpu/nb voltage - 1.3v
cpu vdda volt - AUTO

HT linkspeed - 2200hz
HT linkwidth - AUTO
HT Volt - AUTO

DRAM freq - 1333hz
DRAM Volt - 1.5v
(under timings there were dozens of settings, however I set the traditional CL, tRCD, tRP and tRAS to 9-9-9-24)

NB Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.1v)
NB 1.8v - AUTO
SB Volt - AUTO (amd overdrive shows 1.35v, which is max... odd)

Booted into windows (windows 7 pro 64 btw), ran prime95 for about 2min, got to around 52c (has run stable at 55c on x18), then this is what happens...

Graphics on the screen get all garbled for a second (kinda washed out rainbow colors). Then a blue screen comes up, and says "A problem has been detected, windows shut down to prevent damage.... blah blah blah....", and the last line it says "Dumping system memory to disk ....". Then my machine auto resets.
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December 15, 2009 7:14:49 PM

Ok now try lowering your CPU ratio to around x16 and raise the FSB in increments of .5 and LEAVING YOUR CPU VOLTAGE AT 1.45v. This way we will be able to find the reason why it is acting up by raising the ratio alone.
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December 15, 2009 7:23:34 PM

And what do you want me to set the nb/ht freq at? Default x10?
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December 15, 2009 7:25:18 PM

Yes, x10 should be 2000Mhz
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December 15, 2009 7:25:27 PM

Quote:
This way we will be able to find the reason why it is acting up by raising the ratio alone


Can you elaborate on that? What is wrong with using multipliers? How will raising just the "CPU Bus Freq" (remember there is no fsb) how will that tell us what the problem is?
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December 15, 2009 7:48:17 PM

And a minor update - I ran the windows memory diagnostic at the above settings (200x18.5), and it reported no errors. I also turned off auto reset on error, so I could take a closer look at that bluescreen. Sure enough, after 3 minutes of prime it did the same thing, and I recorded this form the bluescreen...

"A problem has been detected and windows has been shutdown to prevent damage to your computer" ... blah blah blah...

"Technical information
*** STOP : 0x00000124 (0x000000000, 0xf... 0x.... 0x...)

Collecting data for crash dump..."

At first I thought the 124 meant nothing, but I am googling it now, maybe it means something...
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December 15, 2009 7:56:13 PM

In other words that means that you have failed the overclock = BSOD

Sometimes CPU's that are paired with certain boards do not like overclocking by raising the multi alone. I have a board that does not like anything past x17 but it loves when I raise the BUS...That is why I suggested to forget about the multi for now and concentrate on raising the bus.
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December 15, 2009 8:05:29 PM

Let me know if you find any stability by lowering the multi and raising the bus.
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December 15, 2009 8:06:58 PM

Ok I will try raising the bus.

On a side note, while researching the 124 error I came across this...

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows...

Which suggests it might be related to "32 bit HD access" feature in bios. I went into my bios, and the problem is, since I am running raid1, non of my hd's show up (sata ports 1 and 2 show "Not Detected", even though they are clearly plugged in and working), however even though they are not detected, I went into the features for those ports, and it shows this "32 bit HD access" IS enabled. Who knows for sure though...

While in bios I also double checked things like you mentioned (cool n quiet, ect...) they all looked good, but I remembered turning on this one feature called "Anti Surgy Support". The description of it was vague, but it sounded like a good thing to have turned on. You dont think thats whats causing this do you?

Anyway I will try playing with the fsb now...

*oh another thing I noticed while in bios - bios was reporting my vcore at only 1.431v, even though I have it set to 1.45v. So maybe amd overdrive was WRONG when it said my cpu voltage was 1.45. Maybe we need to set it to 1.47 or .148, but I will try your fsb idea first.
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December 15, 2009 8:12:50 PM

Yea, and once you start raising the bus make sure you write down the settings if you get any stability. Some people forget to do this and they have to start from scratch.

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December 15, 2009 8:39:40 PM

Ok 220x16, cpu 1.45v, cpu/nb 1.3v, nb & ht both at default x10, all other settings are unchanged (see above settings).

Been running prime stable for about an hour. Not that big of a deal though, since were only at 3.5ghz (I could get this high with just the multiplier).

I am going to try upping to 225x16.5, since that will put us close to the equivalent 200x18.5 (thats where the trouble stats)..

Cross your fingers.
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December 15, 2009 8:43:20 PM

Keep me posted =)
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December 15, 2009 9:15:00 PM

No luck :( 

225x16.5 crashed within three seconds of prime 95.

I also just tried disabling that "anti surgy support" option in bios, and attempting to run the old 200x18.5 again, still only lasted about 3min.

Only idea I have left - when running 200x18 amd overdrive seems to report pretty accurate 1.45v cpu *Well I take that back, even now 200x18 it still reports vcore at only 1.4 to 1.41.., This could just be amd overdrive sucking though... however even bios reported my vcore at only 1.431v... So maybe I just need to try something like 1.46-1.47v cpu? As long as my temps dont go above 55c there shouldnt be any danger in upping the cpu voltage right?

Unless you have any other ideas...
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December 15, 2009 9:33:04 PM

Hey I got an idea... So i have always wondered what cpu vdda does.. googled it and found this...

http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/441042-what-w...

Currently I have this vdda option set to auto (0 I assume) in bios. Sure enough, amd overdrive reports 1.45 cpu v when idle, BUT as soon as I turn on prime 95, my cpu volt drops to 1.4v! Hrmmm think I should try turning this 'cpu vdda' thing on?
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December 15, 2009 10:07:03 PM

cpu vdda is just a value that increases or decreases volt flow, normally this is left on AUTO since it does not help attain stability.

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December 15, 2009 10:35:35 PM

According to this one guy...

Quote:

basically what happens to the voltage when a load is applied on the CPU is the voltage actually drops. so if you set your voltage to say 1.45v in BIOS and the CPU VDDA is set to it's lowest setting, under idle conditions, the voltage should be around 1.45v. however, under load, the voltage will actually drop below your setting of 1.45v. how much depends on the make and model of your motherboard.

setting the CPU VDDA to it's highest setting will cause the CPU voltage to be (alot) more than what you set it to in BIOS. for instance, if i set my CPU VDDA voltage to 2.80v (Auto, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, and 2.8v are the settings on my ATI chipset), under idle conditions, my CPU voltage will be about 0.04-0.05v more than what i set it to in the BIOS. while under load, it can go as high as 0.10v over my BIOS settings.

it does this to make sure that your CPU is always getting a good amount of power so that the power doesn't dip down and cause BSOD's. usually setting it to AUTO is fine as it will use the lowest settings while under idle and use the highest settings while under load. this makes it so that your not wasting too much power and/or over-volting your chip at idle while making sure under load, you're receiving enough power.
__________________


However I have found it doesnt seem to be working as advertised. I just tried setting it to 2.8 (max) and I STILL dip from 1.45 to 1.4 when I launch prime 95. I am pretty confident this is my problem. Perhaps my only option is to raise the voltage to something crazy like 1.48 (so it will balance back 1.45v under load), and let cool'n'quiet reduce voltage during idle times..

what think?
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December 16, 2009 1:24:32 AM

Look, your voltage is going to fluctuate non-stop... This is normal operation. For example when I have my voltage at 1.45v, CPU-Z shows 1.48/1.49//1.46/1.44v etc... It goes up n down... is this what you see as well?
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December 16, 2009 1:28:59 AM

No, what I am seeing is called vdroop. Rock solid stable at 1.45v idle, then drops to about 1.4v under load. I am sure this is why 1.4v lasts about 3 seconds before a crash, 1.45v lasts about 3 minutes, and 1.46+ can sometimes go for an hour.

Unless you have a better idea, my problem is vcore. The question is, is there any other way to stabilize my vcore so it doesnt drop so much under load (other than just upping the base voltage to something really high like 1.47-1.48). Upping that cpu vdda to max (2.8) didnt do jack.
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December 16, 2009 1:38:25 AM

zealengine said:
No luck :( 

225x16.5 crashed within three seconds of prime 95.

I also just tried disabling that "anti surgy support" option in bios, and attempting to run the old 200x18.5 again, still only lasted about 3min.

Only idea I have left - when running 200x18 amd overdrive seems to report pretty accurate 1.45v cpu *Well I take that back, even now 200x18 it still reports vcore at only 1.4 to 1.41.., This could just be amd overdrive sucking though... however even bios reported my vcore at only 1.431v... So maybe I just need to try something like 1.46-1.47v cpu? As long as my temps dont go above 55c there shouldnt be any danger in upping the cpu voltage right?

Unless you have any other ideas...


No, on my Asus I have raised the voltage to 1.58 and there was still some headroom for more...Try 1.48/1.49 and see if you can get more stability....

The voltage thresold depends on how hot it gets. For example the 965 hit 7Ghz on Ln2 and the CPU voltage was around 1.85v




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December 16, 2009 6:52:55 PM

Well last night I bumped the cpu voltage to 1.4875v (it dipped to 1.45-1.44v under load), and at first I crashed withing 3 minutes. I then realized I still had my nb and ht at 2400/2200, so I set them both back to 2000/2000, and then I was able to run prime95 for over an hour (for the first time ever at 200x18.5x). Got kinda hot though (would idle around 40-42, and load around 55c). However if that is the MAX load under prime95, I am not too worried (since 'normal' apps will NEVER put that much strain on the cpu). Plus turning cool'nquiet back on should help when idling.

So I guess this is proof that what my system needed all along was more vcore, so that leads me to believe the only thing that will help when trying for 200x19 is even MORE vcore... Is it safe to bump to 1.5v JUST to get 3.8ghz?

*one interesting thing I noticed in bios, it only reports my vcore at 1.46v, so maybe it isnt really running as high as we think?
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