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DX10 crashes! Who is to blame

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 14, 2008 9:30:22 AM

I have tried both Nvidia and Ati's top end video cards with various drivers and OSes with DX10 and DX9 to test the crashing driver issue. Firstly i have eliminated PSU, Motherboard and RAM compatibility issues. I have contacted my vendors and there should be no problems at all according to them. I have noticed that ATI and Nvidia drivers both crash when they are stressed. I know heat is not the issue as i have excellent cooling and i manualy blasted the fan on both cards to full during my tests. I have Declocked both cards with little to no success in tearms of stability. On the ATI i tried the "powerplay trick" also with no success. My system has all the reccomended updates and bios/chipset drivers. I have tried default CMOS setup and tweaking more power into my north bridge and boosting my PCI-E speed again with no success. I have been reading both Nvidia and ATI forums, alot of people are pissed. Most ATI customers are old Nvidia customers that want to go back because they knew how bad ATI drivers are historically. Does anyone know what is really going on. Im placeing the blame on Vista but some people are apparenly haveing no problems. Has anyone investigated this! i notice in reviews they never mention stabality as an issue.

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October 14, 2008 10:38:53 AM

Your complete system specs would have been more helpful to list. I haven't seen anyone with a consistent crashing problem across the board like that. List all of your components for us and someone might be able to get you started.

Sounds like you are going through a lot of cards...are you cleaning the drivers out fully or just reinstalling them over top of one another?
October 14, 2008 10:47:50 AM

Pissed at ATI or nVidia... but the problem occurs in both... Last time I checked I heard that installing corrupted DX10 can have severe consequences, I am not sure what they are though. Have you tried reinstalling windows, how have you uninstalled the drivers? ATI tend to have better driver support than nVidia in today's age.
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October 14, 2008 12:48:34 PM

+1 to that...
October 14, 2008 1:18:04 PM

cabraswel said:
... Im placeing the blame on Vista but some people are apparenly haveing no problems...

Thats quite a claim, given the general statement of "crashing driver issue".

My 4850 with vista x64 is rock solid. You obviously have some other issues (probably with the component between the chair and the keyboard)
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 14, 2008 1:40:44 PM

Hmmm. Never have had any problems at all with DX10 using either ATI or Nvidia. Don't know exactly what to tell you, except something somewhere is wrong with your setup.
October 14, 2008 1:51:45 PM

I would blame Vista.

Microsoft removed support for Kernel-Mode drivers in Vista so that a bad driver will not cause a system crash. So regardless of what the driver is doing, it should not crash Windows.

Sure a new driver may fix the issue, but I wish MS would give up the ghost about fighint kernel mode drivers which are faster and more efficient. Clearly they don't fix crashes.

I'll get off my soapbox now.....................
October 14, 2008 1:58:45 PM

I went from a 1900xtx to an 8800GTS OC 512, both under Vista 64. The 1900xtx was used pre-SP1 too.

ZERO driver issues / OS issues on any of the games I play, wether they are DX9 or 10.

I've always done a complete format everytime I change cards though... but my guess is you have underlying faulty hardware, or some really cheap stuff.
October 14, 2008 2:16:33 PM

But the 1900XTX doesn't support DX10, thats why I upgraded to 4870's from my 1900 Crossfire setup. I wouldn't blame Vista its working fine here and the few games I have that do support DX10 all work fine in it. I agree the OP needs to post all his system spec's. He said he tried both nVidia and ATi cards. Did you properly remove the other brands drivers before switching? Without doing that it could be the problem.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2008 2:34:17 PM

i have 4850, q6600@3.4ghz on vista 64bit. rock solid. i had few bsod but that was cuz the cpu was unstable and needed more powar. you should blame drivers :p  i played whole crysis warhead on high @ 1680x1050 and had no issues.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2008 2:41:35 PM

I found that DX10 and Vista is full of PebKaC. Better check to see if thats your problem
October 14, 2008 2:54:32 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I found that DX10 and Vista is full of PebKaC. Better check to see if thats your problem



I was wondering how long it was going to take for that solution to come out. :D 
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2008 3:21:29 PM

Unfortunately, some users find it the last thing they are looking for
October 14, 2008 4:10:44 PM

You know what gets me most curious (how many douchebags we have on these forums? - kidding. Love you all) - is how is it you're "testing the crashing driver issue." Last I checked, drivers are just drivers. It's not like you can run a driver.

Also, I am curious, how is it you say ATI drivers are bad, yet you say that both ATI and nVidia cards crash - that would certainly imply that something is wrong elsewhere.

How is it you eliminated PSU compatibility issue? There are incompatible PSU's? First time I heard about any incompatibilities there.

zenmaster, just what in the hell are you talking about? Hating on Vista just to hate? Really? Kernel-level drivers are a good idea? Isn't that what *nix (and by extension MacOS) enthusiasts argued against for years? And just why exactly must kernel-level drivers be faster?

alvine, powar FTW.
October 14, 2008 4:45:31 PM

Vista 32 pukes, Vista 64 is better.
October 15, 2008 7:48:18 AM

Ha Ha I love how kindly you guys take to me! Firstly it’s not the component between the chair and the keyboard's problem because. 1. No problems in XP with DX9 cranked and 2. DX10 worked fine on my XFX 8600. I have never had any stability problem like this before especially in Good OL XP. I have been messing around for over a month while reading the forums and seeing how many people are having similar problems. Just look for your self.

http://forums.amd.com/game/categories.cfmcatid=260&foru... http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=33

I contacted all the vendors of my components and asked the about the computability with various other ones. My system is stable for everything except DX10, and it has been torture tested plus I render a lot of stuff in Maxwell and XSI with no problems. Here are the Specs anyway since you guys asked.

Q6600 "Tested at stock speeds and OCed"
8 Gigs of G.Skill PC8000 @ 2.0 and 2.1 volts
5-5-5-15 Timings , plus every major clock from 1000GHZ-667
Asus PK5 Premium
Corsair TX750

Cooling
Tunique Tower 120, +2 additional 120 MM fans

Tested Cards
Diamond 4870, Evga GTX280, VisionTek 4870

I Tried with Vista 64 and 32.
Tried crap loads of driver versions as well "obviously ones that support the video cards".
DX10 with setting cranked will not allow most games to get past the menu screen. With more moderate settings DX10 will be much more stable but not perfect, with an occasional BSOD. I have even tried after a fresh format, several times! So the “do you know how to install drivers” question is out the window.
I’m sure you guys have seen Microsoft’s claims from 2007.
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/03/28/29-of-windows-v... but is it their crappy implementation of there new driver environment?

I have tried this to fix my problem as well.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeo...

This gives Vista more time to wait until it determines that the driver has in fact crashed. No success from doing this adjustment to the registry.

I would also like to add that I’m not a douchebag testing driver’s I’m just trying to get my system to work properly. I’m not the only one with this problem, the only reason I post is to get some opinions on this and that you for your negative opinion towards me. And to answer you in more details ATI has historically had **** drivers but I’m talking like over that last decade. How do I know! Everyone I ever knew has had ATI cards and I have seen first hand just how bad they are. This is actually my first ATI card. Apparently now though, Nvidia has the worst drivers according to misroshaft.
October 15, 2008 10:25:50 AM

What specifically is crashing?
Get back to basics and prove everything out one component at a time. First memtest and prove out your memory. Then move on to prime and stress your cpu. If it is stable then run something like ati tool 3d test or furmark and scan for artifacting under load or at least run an hour of looping 3d mark. If your system still proves out as stable then run the app/game that is crashing in a clean system with every unnecessary program and service shut down. Only add online play, features etc. one at a time.

Going back to early 07 "display driver stopped responding " was more common for me but had only gotten progressively better. Now on the cusp of 2009 both my ATI and Nvidia systems are very stable. My best example of how frustrating it can be finding the culprit was when display driver crashing was being caused by punk buster. I had to isolate the variables down to online play with PB enabled games.
October 15, 2008 4:23:46 PM

Well, if you think logically, it sounds a lot like a power issue. Once you get "past the menu screen" is when you actually start loading the card and it needs power. The new cards need more power than the old - that could explain the difference. 280s and 4870s I think consume pretty comparable amounts of power. I don't know what is crashing, because as many have pointed out, you have failed to provide us with a single description of the crash - it's it CTD, is is blue screen, or is it blackscreen. If blackscreen - than it is more likely a power issue as the whole system is unstable. A driver crash should take you to desktop, as some have noted.

So sorry, until furter proof, you really do not know what you are doing.

Test everything at stock. If it works - it's your overclocking. Start testing one thing at a time. Remember, cards at load need more power; use one of many power estimators for your particular setup (what you've provided is not enough for us to tell).
!