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Mugen 2 vs Core Contact Freezer

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December 26, 2009 12:56:34 PM

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas to you all.

I am running an AMD Phenom II X3 720 with an unlocked core @ 3.0 GHZ using the stock heatsink, but with a 120 mm fan that I have modded myself. I also use K10Stat which allows me to customize Cool n Quiet (set up overclocking profiles, undevolt, etc...)

My idle temperatures with my CPU running at 400 MHz is around 22-25. While gaming or prime 95, it goes to 55-62 which I think is hot.

So I am wondering if the Scythe Mugen 2 is still the best performer in its price range. I am not willing to spend more than 45$ (Newegg) so please keep suggestions in that price range.

Thank you,
a c 86 K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 1:36:39 PM

Take a look here and pick one of the top 5 and then find the best price?
http://www.frostytech.com/

Think the Mugen is still pretty good on that list.

Core Contact Freezer is mentioned a lot here for the best bang for the $.
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December 26, 2009 1:38:58 PM

Thanks for the link. However, I cannot find the Mugen 2 in their 252 HSFs list.
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Related resources
a c 86 K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 1:41:07 PM

Ahh. Well I know little about Air cooling, but the link is the definetive best place to find what your looking for.

Core Contact Freezer.
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December 26, 2009 2:48:30 PM

I can get the Core Contact Freezer for 25$ after rebate and free shipping from Newegg.

It is also ranked #4 at FrostyTech.

What do you think ?
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a c 86 K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 4:20:25 PM

Yep, best bang for the $. Good cooler. Make sure you get the right mounting hardware for your CPU.
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December 26, 2009 4:22:43 PM

From Frosty tech:
Quote:
The clip is designed with AMD socket 939/AM2 CPUs in mind, so for Intel processors a specialized heatsink retention frame needs to be installed.

So I do not need any extra accessories since my CPU is an AMD Phenom II X3 720 AM3/AM2+ .
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a b K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 5:44:42 PM

xserver - What was the ambient (room) temperature when you measured? Which utility did you use to measure the temperature?
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December 26, 2009 5:58:06 PM

My ambient temperature is around 18-21 C. I use Everest Ultimate (latest build) and HW monitor.

There is a bug though that I am sure of. Sometimes my idle temps is 22C. I restart the computer and let it idle again and the idle temp becomes 30C. I am sure the conditions are the same and the system is doing nothing. I think it is related to the BIOS and the fact that I have the 4th core unlocked.

Any recommendation ?
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a b K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 5:58:07 PM

I am running an OC'd 710 x3 (in my sig) and use a Scythe Samurai Zz. I have been heavily impressed with it's temp performance and don't hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for triple core amd coolers. I paid $22 for it at a local shop, but usually goes for $30 retail. The Core Contact Freezer is a fairly tall HSF, and if space isn't an issue, you will probably get what you need from it, but if you have a tighter case, the Zz is a pretty tight HSF.
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a b K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 5:59:06 PM

Unlocking cores is known to cause temp reading problems. There are others who are more experienced with it to know an exact suggestion, just putting it out there.
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December 26, 2009 6:08:44 PM

Thank you for your experience JofaMang. I do leave my side panel open so size is not really an issue. I can also move my RAM strips if possible and keep dual channel since each channel has its DIMM slots next to each other.

As for unlocking the 4th core, I have done some testing with 3 cores, got the max temps, and compared them to the max ones obtained using 4 cores and added a headroom. However, I think reaching 60 while gaming MWF2 is high so here is the Core Contact Freezer at 25$.
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a b K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 6:12:59 PM

The the CCF is probably your best choice. I keep my case closed, and it was too tight for a CCF, so I took a chance on the Zz. I also like how the Zz moves air over the motherboard in my case setup, but would have gone for the CCF if I had the room.
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December 26, 2009 6:26:51 PM

My case is the Ultra Wizard Mid-Tower. I like to keep the side panel open since I am always modding something. However, once settled in, I'll try and close it and see if things fit. If not, there's no problem keeping it open.

I am simply amazed from how much extras you get with the Core Contact Freezer for a mere 25$.
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a c 86 K Overclocking
December 26, 2009 6:28:40 PM

Many guides on the web, Google should be fast and easy for that. Even on YouTube. Don't have any bookmarked though.
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December 26, 2009 6:31:14 PM

Thanks for the recommendation.
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December 27, 2009 12:54:04 PM

Can any Core Contact Freezer user please post how he applied the thermal compound and report his results please?

Thank you,
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December 27, 2009 5:17:04 PM

My point is that since the 4 heatpipes touch the CPU casing, there are gaps between the pipes meaning putting a dab of thermal compound in the middle and letting the heat spread it won't work.

It seems that applying thin lines on the heatpipes is the best method, but I would like so more feedback.

Thank you.
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December 27, 2009 5:59:20 PM

Just wanted too put another one in for the core contact. (which it sounds like you got). I did my first lap on it and it rocks

my phenom II 945 at stock, with a silent fan kinda on it (ram slots got in the way so it's rigged)

I have an idle of 23-25 and a load below 50. I can run it almost fanless (one case fan and the graphics fan) and it doessn't crash but the temps are high. And all thats after only 5 hours after application of TIM. :) 

And yes appling thermal paste on the heat pipes in lines is the recommended method , google it for a more detailed guide
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December 27, 2009 6:07:13 PM

Can you please provide more in-depth details about the lapping you did?

Thanks,
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December 27, 2009 9:51:24 PM

If you want to lap it, you should be warned that you can't return it or anything.

As for the lapping process itself there are a variety of ways, there is a lapping guide at the top of the heat sink page that is useful. I myself got a lapping kit from easypckits.com and there was instructions in there that I followed.

It probably won't give you a huge difference in temps but something ( I lapped mine because i was having heat problems and the base of the sink was scratched).

using small fft's I haven't gone above 45.
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December 27, 2009 10:34:19 PM

Thanks for the heads-up tkgclimb. I do not think I will be lapping it since 1 or 2 C won't make a difference for me. If it's scratched, Newegg will replace it.

My unlocked 720 should perform similar to your quad thermally at least. With an old Athlon heatsink now and a 120 mm, I hit 58 C on the CPU with large FFTs.

I guess I should try small FFTs and see what I get. What do you think?
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 5:12:27 PM

58c is great for a quadcore, though there are a few around who prefer lower, it is within a safe operating range for that chip, especially since you won't actually see that load in day to day or gaming use.
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December 28, 2009 6:14:13 PM

xsever said:


My unlocked 720 should perform similar to your quad thermally at least. With an old Athlon heatsink now and a 120 mm, I hit 58 C on the CPU with large FFTs.

I guess I should try small FFTs and see what I get. What do you think?


I Think small FF'ts are the standard test for CPU stressing, but they are all pretty similar, and like stated before, are extreme scenarios that you probably won't encounter.

58 is fine, but higher temps will create a louder case (assuming you have any thermal controlled fans). And if you want to OC more, 58 won't give you much headroom.

You should see a drop with the CCF compared to that old athlon. The only problem (as already mentioned) is that it is big.
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 6:48:12 PM

xsever said:
Thanks for the heads-up tkgclimb. I do not think I will be lapping it since 1 or 2 C won't make a difference for me. If it's scratched, Newegg will replace it.

My unlocked 720 should perform similar to your quad thermally at least. With an old Athlon heatsink now and a 120 mm, I hit 58 C on the CPU with large FFTs.

I guess I should try small FFTs and see what I get. What do you think?


Once you install the new cooler your temps should lower about 10c or more. I have a dual core unlocked to a quad at 4.1Ghz ATM and my MAX temp is 49c running large FFT's 8HR torture test....Of course the ambient is at 21c thanks to the winter but even at 26-27c the temps barely rise. Not sure why your temps are that high at 3Ghz. My B50 can do 3.6Ghz on the stock cooler and the temps are in the 56-57c range at LOAD..
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December 28, 2009 6:51:55 PM

Like the new picture ovrclkr

and your title
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 7:04:05 PM

tkgclimb said:
Like the new picture ovrclkr

and your title


Thx dude ;) 

Got me a new board and now im addicted :na: 
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December 28, 2009 7:15:50 PM

Guys! Thanks a lot for your feedback. It really helps.

Once unlocked, the max allowed temp of the X3 and the X2 becomes 61 C since they are quad cores now.

@ OvrClkr

Which software are you using to monitor your temps. I have a Gigabyte MB with the latest bios. Something I have been noticing is large temperature differences. As if something is wrong in the BIOS. Sometimes the CPU idles at 22 C and sometimes at 30 C. This difference happens when the computer wakes up from sleep. I give it 10-15 minutes to settle in and still the difference is big. In turn, this causes my max temps with OCCT to be higher since delta in the idle temp is different.

Can anyone provide me with some feedback on that matter please ?

Thank you,
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 7:22:47 PM

xsever said:
Guys! Thanks a lot for your feedback. It really helps.

Once unlocked, the max allowed temp of the X3 and the X2 becomes 61 C since they are quad cores now.

@ OvrClkr

Which software are you using to monitor your temps. I have a Gigabyte MB with the latest bios. Something I have been noticing is large temperature differences. As if something is wrong in the BIOS. Sometimes the CPU idles at 22 C and sometimes at 30 C. This difference happens when the computer wakes up from sleep. I give it 10-15 minutes to settle in and still the difference is big. In turn, this causes my max temps with OCCT to be higher since delta in the idle temp is different.

Can anyone provide me with some feedback on that matter please ?

Thank you,


Once you unlock your CPU your temp monitoring programs will not be able to give you an accurate reading. I use a temp probe that came with my fan controller to monitor the CPU temp. It was a PITA to install and fit snug but it was well worth it.


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December 28, 2009 7:31:53 PM

I know that Core temps disappear when you unlock the locked cores, but you still have CPU temp which I am assuming is what the Motherboard's probe is reporting. I have a multimeter that can read temps, so where do you suggest I place it.

So what I am trying to say is that the CPU temp reported by the MB is fluctuating. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Thanks,
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 7:41:14 PM

xsever said:
I know that Core temps disappear when you unlock the locked cores, but you still have CPU temp which I am assuming is what the Motherboard's probe is reporting. I have a multimeter that can read temps, so where do you suggest I place it.

So what I am trying to say is that the CPU temp reported by the MB is fluctuating. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Thanks,


Multimeter?

How is it fluctuating? Can you give a more specific example? For example at LOAD you should have a steady CPU temp with no fluctuating regardless. Maybe a -1/+1c but that is about it....

Unfortunately my CPU temp is off by 6/7c when I unlock my CPU... Not sure if it is a Bios issue or what, hopefully it is and I can remove the probe ASAP....
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December 28, 2009 7:46:46 PM

A multimeter that has a temperature sensor accessory that can be attached to it.

I will explain this fluctuation better.

I boot my computer and let it idle on the desktop for 10 minutes. The lowest temperature reported for CPU using HW Monitor and Everest is 22 C. I work on the PC then put it to sleep. I come after an hour or so and wake it up. I leave it for 10 minutes and now the idle temp is 30 C. I am sure the conditions are the same and there is nothing heavy running after I wake it up.

So there is this 8 C difference. If I run OCCT or prime 95 when my idle temp was 22 C, the max temp I reach is 52-53 C. If i run OCCT or prime 95 when my idle temp was 30 C, the max temp I reach is 60C and the BIOS starts beeping.

Do you get what I am trying to say ?
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 7:51:07 PM

Yea, well I would not worry about that till you get your cooler. My question is, why are you using sleep mode? Have you tried doing the same thing but instead of putting it to sleep have you tried turning the PC off and on again? Sorry but I do not use any power saving features so it is ODD to see such an issue.
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 8:04:30 PM

xsever said:
A multimeter that has a temperature sensor accessory that can be attached to it.

I will explain this fluctuation better.

I boot my computer and let it idle on the desktop for 10 minutes. The lowest temperature reported for CPU using HW Monitor and Everest is 22 C. I work on the PC then put it to sleep. I come after an hour or so and wake it up. I leave it for 10 minutes and now the idle temp is 30 C. I am sure the conditions are the same and there is nothing heavy running after I wake it up.

So there is this 8 C difference. If I run OCCT or prime 95 when my idle temp was 22 C, the max temp I reach is 52-53 C. If i run OCCT or prime 95 when my idle temp was 30 C, the max temp I reach is 60C and the BIOS starts beeping.

Do you get what I am trying to say ?


Ok now I understand what is going on....

The reason you are seeing your temps fluctuate is due to this : When you start your PC, the CPU is cold and it is reading 22c (lowest temp), when you are in sleep mode the PC is no longer at 22c and it will gradually rise to 30c while in use. That is why I suggested to test it turning it off and on and you will see the same results. Meaning you should see 22c ONLY when you are turning the PC on, not while in sleep mode.

When it is in sleep mode it is in use so you will never see 22c unless you turn the PC off for at least 20/ 30 min....

My suggestion : Dont put the PC to sleep till you get your new cooler ;)  or use Cool n Quiet instead of sleep mode...
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December 28, 2009 8:18:05 PM

^ sounds reasonable to me

one question, what is the idle temp after the computer has been booted and you meddle with it (idle temps)
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December 28, 2009 8:20:59 PM

What you are saying makes sense, but there should be no difference after 10 minutes whether it was a cold boot or waking up from sleep. The CPU will be in the same state after 10 minutes.

As written in my original post I use K10stat to customize my clocks and voltages. Power on-demand if you want to call it that.

Here are my settings:

Clock Voltage
3 GHz 1.275 V
2.1 GHz 1.075 V
1.6 GHz 1.000 V
400 MHz 0.6625

I can also report that old BIOSes used to swap the MB temp for the CPU temp.

What do you think ?
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 8:24:43 PM

tkgclimb said:
^ sounds reasonable to me

one question, what is the idle temp after the computer has been booted and you meddle with it (idle temps)


Exactly, he will not achieve anything by clicking on Everest at boot, he needs to boot and leave the PC on for a few minutes (with all power saving features disabled) then he can open everest and monitor the idle and LOAD temps to get a more accurate number....
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December 28, 2009 8:27:37 PM

So the temp is 22 after boot up after 10 min and 30 after "wake up" after 10 min?

Hope that makes sense

The voltages seem reasonable

can you confirm for us that there are 4 cores (3+unlocked) running at all times

A separate temp probe/ monitor would be ideal.

What about turning the computer on taking idles turning it off wait, then turning it back on and taking temps?

I'm just shooting at the sky right now

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December 28, 2009 8:27:47 PM

@ tkgclimb

The idle temps after waking up from sleep is 29-30 C and after a cold boot 22 C (with 10 minutes delay for both cases). I get your point guys but what I fail to understand is that after X amount of times, the CPU conditions will be the same whether it was a cold boot or a wake up.
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December 28, 2009 8:30:08 PM

OvrClkr said:
Exactly, he will not achieve anything by clicking on Everest at boot, he needs to boot and leave the PC on for a few minutes (with all power saving features disabled) then he can open everest and monitor the idle and LOAD temps to get a more accurate number....



Yeah when i want to get true idles, I load for a minute or two to heat up the sink, then take the temp
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 8:31:36 PM

xsever said:
What you are saying makes sense, but there should be no difference after 10 minutes whether it was a cold boot or waking up from sleep. The CPU will be in the same state after 10 minutes.

As written in my original post I use K10stat to customize my clocks and voltages. Power on-demand if you want to call it that.

Here are my settings:

Clock Voltage
3 GHz 1.275 V
2.1 GHz 1.075 V
1.6 GHz 1.000 V
400 MHz 0.6625

I can also report that old BIOSes used to swap the MB temp for the CPU temp.

What do you think ?


Quote:
but there should be no difference after 10 minutes whether it was a cold boot or waking up from sleep


Well actually there is a difference. When your CPU has not been in use for a few hours (example) your CPU is COLD, when your CPU is is sleep mode it is no longer in the same temp range as it was when you booted ;) 

Try monitoring your temps after the PC has been on for a few minutes since a cold boot temp will not give you an accurate idle temp...
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December 28, 2009 8:35:43 PM

xsever said:
@ tkgclimb

The idle temps after waking up from sleep is 29-30 C and after a cold boot 22 C (with 10 minutes delay for both cases). I get your point guys but what I fail to understand is that after X amount of times, the CPU conditions will be the same whether it was a cold boot or a wake up.


Yeah it is weird, at that point everything should be the same,

another quick question, is there anyway that before you put the computer to sleep you had a background program running, so that when you went to sleep :sleep:  (the computer) and then resumed, the program resumed running also and hence raised your temps?

Is cool n' quite off for both testing times

(well I guess if it's on for both times it wouldn't matter either, but it's better to have it off for more accuracy :non: 
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 8:39:25 PM

Even though his issue is kind of rare, once he gets a new cooler all his heat issues should disappear....
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December 28, 2009 8:41:06 PM

Yeah, just wait for the new cooler

then you can rage.

And get a temp probe
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December 28, 2009 8:44:12 PM

@ OvrClkr

You are partially right about cold boot vs wake up. I will reboot the PC several times and see what idle temps I get. I am looking for consistency basically. I am sure the new HSF will do a much better job, but I would like to eliminate this 8 C difference. BTW, idle temp in BIOS is 35 C.

@ tkgclimb

I am sure there are no background programs running. I make sure those things do nothing without my permission :D 
Cool n Quiet is on but K10Stat customizes its clocks and voltages to what I want. It basically customizes the Cool n Quiet profile.
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December 28, 2009 8:48:08 PM

^load for 10 min after boot up then take the idle temp.

do the same for after wake up temp. This will eliminate any coldness in play. Also I assume that the 8 degree difference resets itself (goes back to the original post boot up one) every time you shut down the computer.
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December 28, 2009 8:56:55 PM

Last time I got to the desktop was through a wake up. My idle temp is 26-27 C. I will reboot the PC, let it idle and report back. Then shut it off wait 5 minutes then start it, let it idle, then report back.

Thanks a lot for helping guys.

Be right back.
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a b K Overclocking
December 28, 2009 8:57:13 PM

And use several temp monitoring programs just in case. I use speedfan since it is the most accurate in my case. I also use everest and a temp probe as well cause you never know if that one program that you use is actually giving you accurate temps...

Speedfan and the temp probe are fairly accurate (in my case), Everest is off by 2/3c sometimes....
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December 28, 2009 9:11:01 PM

My temps are the same using HW Monitor PRO and Everest Ultimate latest build. Note that I have everest always running with its OSD on my second monitor so I get temp reading as soon as the screen loads.

Here is what I did just now. Rebooted the PC and let it idle. Idle temp was 22-23 C as expected. Put the computer to sleep and wake it up after a minute. First temp I saw was 35 C then after idle, idle temp was 28 C.

I will shut the PC down now for a couple of minutes then start it and report back.
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