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Vista, DX10, good move?

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October 23, 2008 7:50:49 PM

Hi!
With memory prices tumbling and games needing ever more of the stuff
would a change to Vista 64-bit from Xp Home make sense? It Seems a pity
to have all the DX10 goodness of a HD4870 not to exploit it to the full, but I`m
not sure about switching to Vista (although dual-boot seems a good idea).
Any comments on Vista/gaming/DX10?
Full spec in the usual place :) 

More about : vista dx10 good move

October 23, 2008 8:14:52 PM

Q6600 @ 3ghz, 4GB DDRII800, Gigabyte P45, HD4850.

Vista X64. I will never go back to XP.
Anonymous
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October 23, 2008 8:16:31 PM

basically no...

even though there isn't any reason NOT to get vista... there isn't any reason to GET vista yet...

Stick with xp... you'll notice a performance hit by switching to vista... which isn't necessary... unless your building a new system... stick with XP

I for one... will see how windows 7 does on release... like how buggy it is and stuff before i get vista... i'm mostly skipping vista... despite the fact most of its flaws have been ironed out

EDIT: its a waste of a hundred bucks... as i said earlier... if your buying a new system and need an OS... get vista... but since you already have a working one that performs better... theres no reason to switch to vista
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a c 106 U Graphics card
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October 23, 2008 8:20:56 PM

Well, looking at the config in your profile you only have 2GB of RAM. Should be fine for most games, but you will have to make sure to disable any services you don't want running to save memory. Vista will take up more RAM than XP, but with all the updates it is better at swapping out some of those services to the disk so that there is more memory for your games. You should be fine, but if you feel it lag a little you should throw another 2GB in there. I'm probably going to add more memory myself next month.
October 23, 2008 8:28:04 PM

Quote:

Stick with xp... you'll notice a performance hit by switching to vista... which isn't necessary... unless your building a new system... stick with XP


if you have a 4870, im guessing the rest of ur comp is pretty nice also.


the above statement, is basically false with the right hardware. I run Q6600 @ stock, 4GB OCZ 800, 550w psu, SLI 9600gt's honestly from switching to vista, i saw no drops worthy to mention, and at times, i see some improvements.

The only reason people complain about vista, is they are either 2 poor or 2 cheap to go buy a decent computer. I used to run Vista 32 and Vista 64 on a Dell xps 420, Pent d 2.8, 2GB ram. Of course it didnt run perfect, because that comp was absolute ****.

A simple and really cheap upgrade changed everything. Been running Vista 64 perfect since my upgrade, only problems i have had with my comp are from my 6 year old HD (im honestly surprised its not dead yet)

with RAM prices where they are 4GB of ram is nearing $100 and less. Which i recommend have at least 4 for a 64 bit system.
October 23, 2008 8:31:49 PM

i built a new pc, had an old copy of xp pro so i used that. once i knew all hardware was working fine, i dropped $100 on vista 64 home premium oem and now i dual boot. now that i've had the system a few weeks, i rarely ever go to xp and do all my gaming in vista. make sure you have at least 4gig ram for vista though. i love it and figured i would wait for windows7, but now i'm glad i didn't.
October 23, 2008 8:46:32 PM

Do you "need" to upgrade? No.

Is there a reason to upgrade? Maybe. Most likely not, with the exception of DX10.

Is there cause to not upgrade? Absolutely not.

BTW, I find Vista to be more bug free/stable than XP. IF I had to buy Vista I might not upgrade. That said, if I had to buy an OS then I would buy Vista over XP.

Q6600, 8GB RAM, Vista64.
October 23, 2008 8:59:12 PM

XP is totally stable. Your claim of vista being more stable is absolute ****. Course you have 8GB so you're only true choice is Vista64 but our friend here isn't. There's hardly anything gained from making the switch so just stick with the better OS (XP).
a c 177 U Graphics card
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October 23, 2008 9:36:36 PM

Thank you all for the replies so far.
Please keep posting, I will keep reading.
But from recent developments it looks like Vista64 is about to get a new convert (albeit in dual boot) and someone is shortly about to sell me some memory!
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October 23, 2008 9:42:44 PM

Vista and XP are both quite stable. I wouldn't worry about the stability of either. Is it worth it? I can't really say. Is there any reason not to switch? Absolutely not.
October 23, 2008 9:57:52 PM

Hey Hey

I switched from XP home to vista 64 on my box at home.
It took a couple of days to get used to it, but now if I had buy a new system it would be Vista all the way.
Myself personaly have had no driver issues or instability problems with any of my componants.

Soiled
October 23, 2008 10:02:36 PM

With that specs of your PC I would upgrade to Vista, it works very smooth (aero interface gives vista a nice feel, it makes it work smoother in some way :)  )

I am using Vista Business x64 on my laptop (T8100 (2,1Ghz), 4GB ram, radeon mobility HD3470) and I can run FarCry 2 on medium, so for gaming it's fast enough :) 

Only thing I would recommend you is... buy more ram... Vista loves RAM and you'll love vista more when it got more ram :p 
My laptop with 4GB absolutely FLIES, feels allot faster then my desktop (XP, 3GB ram)

Good luck deciding ;) 
October 23, 2008 10:05:55 PM

I haven't had any problems with vista 64.
a c 177 U Graphics card
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October 23, 2008 10:16:29 PM

Again, thanks for the replies.
Again, I`ll keep reading if you keep posting.
Again, looks like I`ll be buying some more RAM and an OEM licence of
64-bit Vista! (dual boot).
a c 177 U Graphics card
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October 23, 2008 10:21:27 PM

And STEVIED...No, I`m old enough to be your twin brother.
October 23, 2008 10:32:37 PM

I waited till sp1 for vista and I really wanted DX10 features. I made the right move. If your playing DX10 games your right about worring whether or not your getting the most out of your 4870. Without DX10 you aren't plain and simple.
October 23, 2008 10:38:08 PM

there is no performance hit from Vista, there were recent benchmarks done, and they've been 1 fps off for either Operating. The thing is that DX 10 gives a performance hit to Vista, but you could just run the game in DX 9 and have the option for DX 10 down the road.

So is there a point to going back to XP, well no, unless you have old hardware, or just generally a slower computer.

Vista you should have atleast 3 gigs to play it safe for gaming. And a decent processor.

Either way to each his own, not moving onto Vista right now is a waste. XP support is pretty much over...so get with the times:) 
a c 177 U Graphics card
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October 23, 2008 10:46:25 PM

@ STRANGESTRANGER, My question is not about performance, only if Vista can improve my experience with improved visuals in games with DX10 or as an OS.
Your post only reinforces those already made here; Get Vista, add memory, enjoy.
And I shall do all three.
Thank you all for your posts and time.
Tomorrow, I shall go shopping!
October 23, 2008 10:52:22 PM

Vista will have a bit more eye candy' in some games more than others. DX 10 does do a noticeably difference sometimes to pplz faces water, and enviroments.

You have to be picky to see em, honestly I played Crysis Warhead on Medium and forgot all about the graphics on my laptop.
a b U Graphics card
October 23, 2008 11:14:24 PM

On a new system get Vista, it will serve you better over time. Don't listen to the Vista haters they probably never used it or used once or twice at the beginning. Vista 64 is the OS to get now. Works perfectly for me and I'm a gamer.
October 23, 2008 11:22:33 PM

L1qu1d said:
there is no performance hit from Vista, there were recent benchmarks done, and they've been 1 fps off for either Operating. The thing is that DX 10 gives a performance hit to Vista, but you could just run the game in DX 9 and have the option for DX 10 down the road.

So is there a point to going back to XP, well no, unless you have old hardware, or just generally a slower computer.

Vista you should have atleast 3 gigs to play it safe for gaming. And a decent processor.

Either way to each his own, not moving onto Vista right now is a waste. XP support is pretty much over...so get with the times:) 


Not true as far as Far cry 2 is concerned, I definitely saw a marked difference today when I ran the timedemo benchmark. I tried on very high DX9 4x AA, very high DX10 4x AA, Ultra high DX9 4x AA, and Ultra high DX10 4x AA, and the DX10 render path was without a doubt running smoother than DX9 could.

To the OP, check out this article. Using Vista DX9 render path is better for AA performance than using XP DX9 render path.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&ar...

EDIT: I wouldn't say Vista will be an earth shattering difference or that is a great buy as an upgrade for an XP existing machine, but if you have the cash to spare it can't hurt.
October 23, 2008 11:22:36 PM

Vista, come for the DX10, stay for the DRM.

You are foolish if you think DX10 + Vista + (More internal DRM - hardware audio) > XP + DX9 + (hardware audio - less internal DRM).

Spend your money as you see fit.
October 24, 2008 12:56:46 AM

@ EMP

I've never had DX 10 run better in a game than DX 9...lol I mean really, there was always an increase in frames in DX9...All benchmarks show it as well, why would there be an option to run the game in DX9 if DX 10 has better frames? And don't say because the video card doesn't support DX 10 because there would be no choice then it would just be DX9.

Developers lets it to be run in DX9 vs DX 10 because ppl have a choice to sacrifice some eye candy for frames.

This has been the case for my 8800 GTSs 9600 GTs 9800 GX2s 260 GTXs, and 280s.

BTW, if you look @ benchmarks you posted Devil May CRY DX9 gets like 10 fps more...and 70 fps more with out AA in some cases(4870 X2)...

So DX9 will run with more frames than DX10 period, no arguement there...unless the game is an over the top demanding game, where the frame rate difference is very minimal (DX9 will still win for fps)
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October 24, 2008 1:45:40 AM

Basically it all boils down to how much eye candy you want. DX10 offers better/more eye candy than DX9. However, more eye candy generally means a performance hit. So it is very possible that game X will give you 40 FPS in WinXP with maxed out graphics, but game X may only 35 FPS in Vista with maxed out graphics.

If you want the best performance possible then stick with XP.

If you want better looking graphics with a relatively small hit in performance then get Vista.

I am sure you can Google for some DX9 vs DX10 screenshot comparisons. I know I found a few several months ago. You got a Radeon HD 4870 so the question is do you want to fork out money for a new OS?
October 24, 2008 1:58:38 AM

I switched to Vista Ultimate 64bit for 2 reasions:

1: DX10
2: To use more than 3.7Gigs of RAM including Video card Memory

Was it worth the switch to Vista for DX10? No, DX10 is nice but the number of DX10 games is limited and only a handful of those make any real use out of DX10.

However the surprise for me, was just how nice an OS Vista is.

Once you get used to the ways Vista differs from XP and get it setup and streamlined its a very nice OS.

When I switch to my XP partition I find myself missing all those little features of Vista that I never realized I had grown so used to using. And for the speed issue... Vista blows XP out of the water in terms of Speed as long as you have a rig that was built in the past 3 years. Sure Vista uses a lot of RAM, but it uses your RAM to speed up your working environment.

People need to break away from the "I only need 2 gigs of RAM" mentality. Vista will use as much of your resources as you will throw at it, and it will become exponentially quicker in all the tasks it does (Which is a good thing.)

When you delve into something like a game, Vista will drop the resources that it has been using to make surfing, searching and loading programs lightning fast and focus all of your systems attention on the task at hand.

The best reason to get Windows Vista... is for Windows Vista.
October 24, 2008 2:47:24 AM

L1qu1d said:
@ EMP

I've never had DX 10 run better in a game than DX 9...lol I mean really, there was always an increase in frames in DX9...All benchmarks show it as well, why would there be an option to run the game in DX9 if DX 10 has better frames? And don't say because the video card doesn't support DX 10 because there would be no choice then it would just be DX9.

Developers lets it to be run in DX9 vs DX 10 because ppl have a choice to sacrifice some eye candy for frames.

This has been the case for my 8800 GTSs 9600 GTs 9800 GX2s 260 GTXs, and 280s.

BTW, if you look @ benchmarks you posted Devil May CRY DX9 gets like 10 fps more...and 70 fps more with out AA in some cases(4870 X2)...

So DX9 will run with more frames than DX10 period, no arguement there...unless the game is an over the top demanding game, where the frame rate difference is very minimal (DX9 will still win for fps)


Please trust me on this, try Far Cry 2 on DX9 and DX10 render paths, there is a difference favoring DX10 on this particular title.
October 24, 2008 3:10:35 AM

I already did, I get 35-40 fps in far cry on my laptop with DX 9 and around 27-29 DX10
October 24, 2008 3:41:57 AM

Weird. I have an ATI GPU, what about you?

Settings: Demo(Ranch Small), 1440x900 (60Hz), D3D9, Fixed Time Step(No), Disable Artificial Intelligence(No), Full Screen, Anti-Aliasing(4x), VSync(No), Overall Quality(Very High), Vegetation(Very High), Shading(Very High), Terrain(Very High), Geometry(Very High), Post FX(High), Texture(Very High), Shadow(Very High), Ambient(High), Hdr(Yes), Bloom(Yes), Fire(Very High), Physics(Very High), RealTrees(Very High)

Average Framerate: 33.17
Max. Framerate: 47.67
Min. Framerate: 25.02

Settings: Demo(Ranch Small), 1440x900 (60Hz), D3D10, Fixed Time Step(No), Disable Artificial Intelligence(No), Full Screen, Anti-Aliasing(4x), VSync(No), Overall Quality(Very High), Vegetation(Very High), Shading(Very High), Terrain(Very High), Geometry(Very High), Post FX(High), Texture(Very High), Shadow(Very High), Ambient(High), Hdr(Yes), Bloom(Yes), Fire(Very High), Physics(Very High), RealTrees(Very High)

Average Framerate: 35.37
Max. Framerate: 53.70
Min. Framerate: 25.78

EDIT: it also looks smoother in DX10.
October 24, 2008 3:46:00 AM

9700M GTS
October 24, 2008 3:51:46 AM

Well I found my benchmark results, and as you can see at least with an ATI GPU you get better performance out of DX10 compared to DX9.
October 24, 2008 3:55:19 AM

I think it depends on the card and game, for example on my GX2 DX9 in Crysis was barely playable, but DX10 was great. That was just a bug though, I dunno if they fixed it or not.

October 24, 2008 1:48:29 PM

I couldn't stand the game play in call of juarez, but I think it does have slightly better graphics than Far Cry 2. The gameplay was just **** in my opinion though. Played it for 10 mins then just turned it off, now I think I'm using the cd a cup coaster. :p 

The thing that was a big selling point for me if any1 noticed, was when you look @ trees in Crysis, and you look at the ground connecting to the tree, it soo detailed it actually looks like a real tree right down to the connection to the earth itself.

If you take far Cry 2 or CAJ, you'll see that it just looks like a box connected to a very plain and bland ground:p 

I don't kno I pay attention to these stupid small thing:p 
a b U Graphics card
October 24, 2008 2:37:55 PM

I run all kind of games on my comp and I have Vista Ultimate x64. I will never go back to XP. Now, seeing XP just makes me sick.
October 24, 2008 2:41:21 PM

I almost made a new thread about a similar topic, but after reading this I am glad I did not.

I have a semi-antiquated 8800GTS 320 that I am looking at upgrading to an HD4870 but I was debating it based on the fact that I know I would not see any really good improvements unless I went from XP64 to Vista 64 for DX10.

My conclusion will be to save a little cash and get Vista with my HD4870.

Thanks all.
October 24, 2008 3:56:28 PM

I dunno Crysis had some major foliage detailing, more so in Warhead. Plus I have an Nvidia card (and had an Nvidia card before) so it ran with some min frame problems.

I dunno its just not my kind of game. I don't think there ever will be my kind of game anymore (except half life 2). My favorite game to date would have to be Shenmue 1 for the Dreamcast:p 

Closest thing I found was Yakuza, and even far cry 2 with all the walking around and go home type of poop...but its not the same:p ....

I'll re install the game 2day after my midterm:)  give it another shot
Anonymous
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October 24, 2008 7:12:55 PM

Don't waste 100 bucks on this... stick with the OS you have... and when you build again... for a legitimate reason then get vista...

EDIT: sorry about other writing in post lol... sometimes the task button switcher on my mouse gets pressed and i don't even realize it... so it was supposed to be going into another post despite it being wrong anyway :p 

gotta change the button on my mouse
October 24, 2008 7:38:38 PM

I dunno who ur calling morons, but ur approach and reasoning seems to be at a miss.

Vista is more secure and faster than Xp. I dunno if its worth the money, for me it is.
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October 24, 2008 7:55:56 PM


1. The gameplay in call of juarez was crap in my opinion as well, i suffered about 1 hour of it before i gave it away.
2. There is nothing wrong in Vista anymore most of the kinks haev been worked out now. Would I buy it now as an upgrade ? No. Why ? Because it offers nothing of value to me at the moment DX10.1 is the next evolution that actually shows a worthwhile benefit in terms of performance and image quality.
3. What does make perfect sence and what i will be doing before i go over is to do that dual boot you mentioned (thats to the OP) As Vista will be new to you and you will have to go through the learning curve (as will I) of what needs dissabling and what need tweaking etc. Doing it with a dual boot gives you a platform (XP) that is stable and you know how to work properly. while you get tim eto become familiar with Vista before you use it on its own in your next build. Vista will run DX11 as well so Windows 7 wont be an issue.

Mactronix
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October 24, 2008 11:15:02 PM

Did n`t realise I`d start such a long thread!
Thanks to all who have posted, your views are most welcome.
As I posted earlier, I will be purchasing both Vista 64-bit and extra memory as advised.
The HD4870 is HUNGRY for DX10. I feel it...turning and twisting within my PC case like a caged tiger...I hear its claws in the darkness, talons that demand DX10 code to rend...I hear the roar of its...
That was silly :D 
October 25, 2008 12:41:29 PM

L1qu1d said:
I dunno Crysis had some major foliage detailing, more so in Warhead. Plus I have an Nvidia card (and had an Nvidia card before) so it ran with some min frame problems.

I dunno its just not my kind of game. I don't think there ever will be my kind of game anymore (except half life 2). My favorite game to date would have to be Shenmue 1 for the Dreamcast:p 

Closest thing I found was Yakuza, and even far cry 2 with all the walking around and go home type of poop...but its not the same:p ....

I'll re install the game 2day after my midterm:)  give it another shot


Shenmue 2 on the Dreamcast was better than no 1. I much prefered the China setting. And Ren is hilarious. The Xbox version was terrible though because they dubbed it rather than use subtitles.

Oh and you will like Vista. I'm lucky I have access to MSDN so get as many Vista copies as I like. Also the version with the least bloat is Vista Business. It has no media center or any of that stuff.
October 25, 2008 4:17:46 PM

I didn't like shenmue 2 as much as 1. Shenmue 2 gave u a less sense of security since you were out in some other country, plus I hate huge complex maps:p .

The thing is, the whole gambling process in China became so repetive in the game, and thats the only way you can make enough money to actually move through the game...working only gives you sooo much:p 

The stupid marble games were very frustrating!!!!

I loved driving the forklift in the 1st 1:)  plus the motorcycle level was fun 2:) 
!