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Computer Case Vacuum?

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December 19, 2008 11:14:44 PM

Would it be a good idea to turn my case into a vacuum by having all of my case fans exhaust? Granted, there would still be plenty of air in there, but if its constantly removing the air and the heat from the case, wouldn't it cool alot better? Less air = less heat.

More about : computer case vacuum

December 19, 2008 11:24:29 PM

:lol:  i take it you read that techreport article.. the thing is, if there's no air inside the case, then theres nothing for the graphics card fan to suck in, nothing for any of hte fans to do, if you get my meaning. Air is meant to conduct the air and dissipate it. if there's less air in the case (no air would make it die within seconds i think, but no air would be fairly hard to achieve), then your temps will suffer. Better to have 2xintake and 3xexhaust. eg, two 120mm fans at the front, a PSU exhaust, a graphics card small exhaust, and a rear exhaust fan/rear exhaust fan+1 or 2 top fans.

your system must have air to move the heat around..
December 19, 2008 11:35:24 PM

Assuming you have a grill on the front of your case then I would bet the pressure gradient would be negligible. I would have at least one intake though. You really want to match the intake and exhaust as close as possible, but it's not that big of a deal. Just my opinion.
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December 19, 2008 11:39:32 PM

Zorg said:
Assuming you have a grill on the front of your case then I would bet the pressure gradient would be negligible. I would have at least one intake though. You really want to match the intake and exhaust as close as possible, but it's not that big of a deal. Just my opinion.


Every data center manager just had a heart attack... 4psi ppv is considered the norm.
December 20, 2008 1:07:12 AM

well imo, try and match the intake CFM with the exhaust CFM, then add another. this can be quite simple, ie: two intake, two exhaust, then the small psu and graphics exhaust create just enough negative pressure.
December 20, 2008 1:21:40 AM

croc said:
Every data center manager just had a heart attack... 4psi ppv is considered the norm.
Sorry for any health problems I might have caused any data center managers, sounds like they might be a little high strung.
a b ) Power supply
December 20, 2008 1:32:10 AM

Actually heat transfer can be increased by raising the pressure of the air in the case .
Yes it has to be exhausted to carry the heat a way , but if you can raise the pressure slightly by pumping in then you have probably got better cooling
December 20, 2008 1:53:48 AM

By how much?
December 20, 2008 2:01:13 AM

well think about it... if you had no intakes and just pure exhaust, obviously the hard drives for one aren't going to run as cool. even with the "vacuum" effect of sucking air through, that's nowhere near the amount of air that a fan would PUSH over the harddrives. better to have a closely balanced cfm, with exhaust slightly tipping the scales in order to eliminate so called "dead spots" of hot air.
December 20, 2008 2:41:49 AM

I said that in a desktop with a front grill that I didn't believe there would be that great of a pressure gradient. I also said that you should match intake and exhaust. I am not espousing using only exhaust fans. I am also a firm believer in a little extra airflow over the HDs, although the Google data actually mitigates that understanding. IMO any pressurizing of the intake of a desktop is undercut by the reduced flow of not having the exhaust match it. At any rate with any decent cooling we are probably only talking about a couple of degrees either way. I personally feel it is somewhat of a non issue. This argument is as old as the hills and I haven't seen any tests that I consider to be definitive, for one reason or another.

I also said it was just my opinion.

If the flow is good, then let it eat.

December 20, 2008 4:17:12 AM

hey man i wasnt attacking your comment sheesh...

im not saying airflow over hdd's is a must, i have had 5 computers without front fans blowing over the hdd's, and they all work fine to this day. most of them were not performance gaming computers i must admit... but seriously, how can 40 C on a hdd be bad for it? it doesn't really matter what temp it is so long as the temp is Consistent. ie, not fluctuating wildly. im assuming this is because the metals in the hdd retract and expand over and over when the temp changes, which clearly would not be good for it

end of rant. :lol: 
December 20, 2008 4:22:34 AM

Zorg said:
Sorry for any health problems I might have caused any data center managers, sounds like they might be a little high strung.


You might be a bit nervous as well, if your job hinged on $200M worth of servers running 24 x 7 x 365...
December 20, 2008 5:26:51 AM

Outlander_04 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i...

Report on the Silverstone Fortress FT01.
They turn a fan around to suck air out and the temperature inside rises .


Anandtech did a follow-up video showing airflow. (OK, Silverstone did the video, Chris just posted it.)
December 20, 2008 5:52:40 AM

Quote:
:lol:  i take it you read that techreport article..


Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooli [...] spx?i=3454

Report on the Silverstone Fortress FT01.
They turn a fan around to suck air out and the temperature inside rises .


..... i was kind of right :lol: 
a b ) Power supply
December 20, 2008 6:01:39 PM

doomsdaydave11 said:
Would it be a good idea to turn my case into a vacuum by having all of my case fans exhaust? Granted, there would still be plenty of air in there, but if its constantly removing the air and the heat from the case, wouldn't it cool alot better? Less air = less heat.



No that would not be a good idea, its not called air cooling for nothing, you need air flow through the case to bring in fresh air and exhaust the heated air, the air is removing the heat transfered to it.





December 21, 2008 7:07:27 AM

Outlander_04 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i...

Report on the Silverstone Fortress FT01.
They turn a fan around to suck air out and the temperature inside rises .
Quote:
The large 180mm fan directly above the CPU definitely helps here, but the graphics cards seem to struggle a bit more since they don't have any direct airflow. Silverstone intends for the front fan to cool down the graphics cards as well, but the hard drive cage and cables that run through the area make it difficult for this to work in practice. The result is that the cards need to be cooled with leftovers from the top fan, and this may not be sufficient for a top-end system running at full load.

That may explain why reversing the direction of the top fan hurt temperatures so much; as it stands, it seems like very little of the airflow from the front fan reaches the main body, so the top fan really needs to be an intake fan in order to provide fresh air for the CPU and graphics cards.
Looks more like a flow problem, due to the design, than a pressure problem. Like I said I'm still for matching in and out relatively closely. I guess the best setup is somewhat dependent on case design.

Again, just my opinion.
a b ) Power supply
December 22, 2008 11:40:47 AM

The OP hasn't responded guys you're arguing among yourselves.
December 22, 2008 3:07:01 PM

Sorry, my power went out.

Regardless, I'm getting answers going each way.... none definitive. I'm thinking of getting some Scythe "Slipstream" 120MM fans that move >110 CFM, and then testing it out myself.
December 22, 2008 8:31:58 PM

LOL, you managed to get a lot of people into this JOKE TOPIC :)  Vacuum case? Is your case sealed ? :)  Have you ever heard of cooling without moving the cooling agent ( air, water, CFC, etc etc )? COOLING = Transfering heat from a medium to another medium using a cooling agent. Eg: CPU transfers heat to the heatsink - contact pressure and thermalpaste to improve this. Heatsink will transfer the heat to the atmosphere by itself IF the air is moving around - therefore humans invented fans, to improve air circulation around the heatsink. If you have a fan extracting from a " vacuum " what do you expect to cool down your heatsink ? I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU GO BACK TO SCHOOL OR GOOGLE THE DEFINITION OF THE VACUUM, COOLING, HEAT TRANSFER, COMPUTER CASES, ETC.... :)  again LOL @ topic and the debate
December 22, 2008 8:54:42 PM

doomsdaydave11 said:
Granted, there would still be plenty of air in there

@ kenzz0 Did you read anything? Moron. Don't post if you don't want to help; simple as that. Saying "vacuum" got my point across, and I've already stated that it wouldn't technically be a vacuum. Have you ever used a vacuum cleaner? They're not vacuums, now are they? They just literally suck, which is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with my case.

It would be entirely possible to seal my case. Although that would defeat the point. Obviously if there was no air in the case, there would be no airflow, and therefore nothing to transfer the heat. However if there was less airflow, and all fans exhausting, the theory behind it is that all the heated air would be constantly pumped out.

Like the world needs more trolls such as yourself.
December 22, 2008 9:04:26 PM

Oh, and just to prove my point, i did go onto dictionary.com and look up the definition, and just like I thought, a vacuum doesn't necessarily mean its completely empty or air/matter/whatever, it just means it has negative pressure compared to outside the vacuum.

adjective
8. (of a hollow container) partly exhausted of gas or air.
noun
2. an enclosed space from which matter, esp. air, has been partially removed so that the matter or gas remaining in the space exerts less pressure than the atmosphere (opposed to plenum ).
December 22, 2008 9:10:22 PM

I was sure you will go OFF and RUDE , that usually happen with people when you tell them they are NON TECHNICAL and of course they dont want to accept :)  My advice is staill valid...Google those definitions and you'll find the answer, it will save you a bit of time from doing what you trying to do. And yes, I read EVERYTHING including ALL coments, I was just refering AT THE TITLE OF THE POST when I asked that question...of course was a joke attempt ...but yeah...moron, troll....yeah...no comment really :) 
December 22, 2008 9:15:56 PM

kenzz0 said:
I was sure you will go OFF and RUDE , that usually happen with people when you tell them they are NON TECHNICAL and of course they dont want to accept :)  My advice is staill valid...Google those definitions and you'll find the answer, it will save you a bit of time from doing what you trying to do. And yes, I read EVERYTHING including ALL coments, I was just refering AT THE TITLE OF THE POST when I asked that question...of course was a joke attempt ...but yeah...moron, troll....yeah...no comment really :) 

that made no sense whatsoever
December 22, 2008 10:27:52 PM

^+1 iRection...
January 10, 2009 9:52:19 PM

doomsdaydave11 said:
Would it be a good idea to turn my case into a vacuum by having all of my case fans exhaust? Granted, there would still be plenty of air in there, but if its constantly removing the air and the heat from the case, wouldn't it cool alot better? Less air = less heat.

Sum it up.

If you keep it Positive pressure (Slightly higher than outside) then you will not over power any smaller items. <GPU fan kits that suck air out or PSU fans that suck air out.> keeping a slightly higher pressure inside will only aid those items :D 

Of cause I am not talking about Sealing the case. and properly placed Exhaust fans are a Must. (But they may be Not needed except that a "In fan" and "out fan" help each other. <Some inlet fans are also place in locations that direct flow, and some Exhaust fans are strategically placed to remove air at a desired location.

Keep it Positive. but keep complete.

PS.
I for one knew that you were not talking about sealing your case and attempting to keep a low pressure inside the case.
It was clear that you were talking about Vacume as in the resultant effect of all fans Sucking and none blowing.

The only part that was wrong was the Less Air = Less Heat. Well its not actually wrong but rather. you were just looking at it incompletely. (Less air Pressure/Air flow = Less Heat per Cubic foot of air/Per Cubic foot of air per minute) IE if you are moving 1CFM at low pressure you are moving less heat. if you are moving 1CFM at a higher pressure you are moving more heat)

Good luck and Happy new year ;) 

Kenzz0 must think Everyone is an Idiot if he Misinterprets clear explanations such as your first post.


Bryce.

Edited to Add Bold
January 10, 2009 11:52:07 PM

This is a glass full vs. glass empty argument. In either case, water still occupies the lower half of the glass, and air occupies the upper half.

By having only exhaust fans, yes the fans are closest to the act of removing heat from the case, but the higher pressure air outside will want to seep in, effectively pumping cool air into the case.

By having only intake fans, the fans are closest to the act of pumping cold air into the case, but the cool air will displace an equal volume of hot air and force it out the case.

There are temperature changes associated with adjusting barometric pressure and holding all other factors constant, but the amount of pressure gradient here with commercial case fans is insignificant.

The maximum overall cooling you can achieve with pumps of a given strength is with laminar flow. That means evening out the resistance to air flow in all paths and minimizing the overall resistance, but also sealing all air holes except for entrance and exit, not half sealing the case to artificially increase resistance at intake or exhaust.

Because modern computer cases are imperfectly sealed, it is ideal to place an equal amount of intake and exhaust fans, rather than bunching them up at either, so that you normalize internal pressure with outside and minimize the tendency for air to take a shortcut through these leaks.

Oh, I do have a simpler idea for decreasing the air temperature in your case. Assuming you don't live in a humid climate, mix water with air at intake, up to 80% or 95% humidity (whichever your electronics are rated up to). The high heat of evaporation and a good mixer will cause the intake air to drop noticeably below ambient temperature.

Or, better yet, use water cooling and spray water mist or drip water down the outside of your water loop radiator.... This would be one of the few possibilities to cool a processor below ambient without active refrigeration.
January 11, 2009 9:34:12 PM

doomsdaydave11 said:
Would it be a good idea to turn my case into a vacuum by having all of my case fans exhaust? Granted, there would still be plenty of air in there, but if its constantly removing the air and the heat from the case, wouldn't it cool alot better? Less air = less heat.

Try One of these . (Use the Inlet to this one for the Extraction point to your case)

VCUN 225x103 1.5 4
or the
VCUN 280x127 3.0-2 as the Picture graph show this one really Sucks ;D ( this one is a little over the Mains limit ;)  well a lot actually so not able to be used conveniently)

PS. Do make sure to not let little children to close to your PC. (Oh and you may need to Strengthen the case to preventing it from imploding :D  Oh and a separate power point (NB here in Australia we are 240V 50hz and most power points are 2kw)

Just a giggle ;) 
!