Future Proof Desktop Assistance

[iode]

I'm currently trying to build a desktop for college that'll be powerful enough to handle any game I throw at it for the next 4 years (hopefully). However, as of late, I have been torn between two AMD processors, the Athlon 64 x2 6400+ 3.2 ghz and the Phenom 8650 2.3 ghz at stock settings. I know, for future proof computers you should get an Intel cus their faster, but again, I'm on a tight budget and my pockets aren't that deep. I just need help deciding between these two cpu's and I'm set to begin construction.

My current parts:
MOBO: MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum (SLI just incase so I can simply slap another nvidia in if it starts getting sluggish FPS)
Power supply: 650W
OS: Windows Vista Premium 32bit sp1
HD: 640 GB (320x2) 7200 RPM 32 MB (16x2) Cache
RAM: 4 GB (2x2) G.Skill 800 mhz
GPU: nVidia GeForce GTX260 (+ another one in SLI if need be)
Heatsink: zeroTherm Zen FZ120S + 120mm fan (pictures of it do not do justice to its sheer size)
Case: Raidmax Aztec w/ 3x80mm, 2x120mm fans
CPU: ?????? (Insert CPU here)

So there it is, my rig without a cpu.

Here's my 2 cents on what I know so far:
From benchmarks based on the 6400+ and the 8650's stock speeds, it seems that the 6400+ beats the 8650 limp in everything even though the 6400+ is a dual core and the 8650 a triple core. However, the 6400+ also runs very very hot at 125W. If I want future proofing, it would be a no brainer to go with the 6400+, however, I'm concerned that its high operating temperature will limit my ability to overclock it. Also, I have seen many screenshots proving the overclocking capabilities of the 8650 and its quite impressive. Due to its lower temperatures, do you think that it OC'd would beat out the 6400+ OC'd as well? As of far, I havn't found any benchmarks testing both of the overclocked side by side. I've only seen them compared at stock speeds, which hardly reveals any potential. With the numerous amount of fans and a rather formidible heatsink, I think I can push overclocking rather far. But the CPU question remains. This is why I have come here to ask you guys. With such a large and experienced community, I'm sure I can get a satisfactory answer. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[unclefester]

You may want to make sure the MoBo is going to be compatible with the phenom IIs coming out after the first of the year. Could be a nice up-grade a little farther down the road.

 

[dragonsprayer]

future proof = x58

that is the only answer

its quite possible amd will be gone with a $2 stock price, ati sold off and Samson buys up the cpu technology or even the chinese

i can see them lobbing for the x86 liceance and stupid "do nothing congress" giving it away

 

[iode]

You may want to make sure the MoBo is going to be compatible with the phenom IIs coming out after the first of the year. Could be a nice up-grade a little farther down the road.

The mobo is compatible with virtually every AMD cpu up until now with its am2+ socket. I don't know if the Phenom II's will utilize the am2+ socket, but the fact remains that I won't be able to afford new CPU's considering starting prices are too high. Any inputs based on the 6400+ or the 8650?

 

[unclefester]

In the here and now go with the 6400+. It is going to be faster in single core programs(3.2GHz compaired to 2.3GHz), which most but not all programs are writin in. New programs are writin everyday, more and more in muti- threaded programs. The future- Amd's Beta launch (Jan.8-2009) of the Phenom II's will be AM2+ utilizing DDR2 memory, in their initial offering. Having a compatible board means 12 to 18 months from now you will be able to up-grade at reasonable price. Having 3.0GHz in a Quad-Core . More than likely giving you a 3 or 4 year window until needing a new system, maybe just maybe longer.

 

[bobbknight]

It will never happen for a for year time frame.

 

[rangers]

your better going with a cheap intel Pentium E2220 2.4GHz and a cheap motherboard with p45 chipset, and overclock the nuts off it, probably pick it up cheaper than a crappy athlon and nvidia motherboard combination, or even cheaper Celeron Dual Core E1200, its a much better buy than an AMD processor.


if i had your location I could have gave you some links

 

[spuddyt]

I'm currently trying to build a desktop for college that'll be powerful enough to handle any game I throw at it for the next 4 years (hopefully). However, as of late, I have been torn between two AMD processors, the Athlon 64 x2 6400+ 3.2 ghz and the Phenom 8650 2.3 ghz at stock settings. I know, for future proof computers you should get an Intel cus their faster, but again, I'm on a tight budget and my pockets aren't that deep. I just need help deciding between these two cpu's and I'm set to begin construction.

My current parts:
MOBO: MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum (SLI just incase so I can simply slap another nvidia in if it starts getting sluggish FPS)
Power supply: 650W
OS: Windows Vista Premium 32bit sp1
HD: 640 GB (320x2) 7200 RPM 32 MB (16x2) Cache
RAM: 4 GB (2x2) G.Skill 800 mhz
GPU: nVidia GeForce GTX260 (+ another one in SLI if need be)
Heatsink: zeroTherm Zen FZ120S + 120mm fan (pictures of it do not do justice to its sheer size)
Case: Raidmax Aztec w/ 3x80mm, 2x120mm fans
CPU: ?????? (Insert CPU here)

So there it is, my rig without a cpu.

Here's my 2 cents on what I know so far:
From benchmarks based on the 6400+ and the 8650's stock speeds, it seems that the 6400+ beats the 8650 limp in everything even though the 6400+ is a dual core and the 8650 a triple core. However, the 6400+ also runs very very hot at 125W. If I want future proofing, it would be a no brainer to go with the 6400+, however, I'm concerned that its high operating temperature will limit my ability to overclock it. Also, I have seen many screenshots proving the overclocking capabilities of the 8650 and its quite impressive. Due to its lower temperatures, do you think that it OC'd would beat out the 6400+ OC'd as well? As of far, I havn't found any benchmarks testing both of the overclocked side by side. I've only seen them compared at stock speeds, which hardly reveals any potential. With the numerous amount of fans and a rather formidible heatsink, I think I can push overclocking rather far. But the CPU question remains. This is why I have come here to ask you guys. With such a large and experienced community, I'm sure I can get a satisfactory answer. Thanks in advance for your help.

(your pockets don't have to be deep for intel btw - they are better value at the lower end)

I would reccomend the dual, simply because of current games' lack of support for more cores

 

[curnel_D]

You're not going to get something futureproof. It doesnt exist. 4 years? Not unless you're going to be playing this and next years games for the next 4 years.

The best you can do for future proof atm is a good x58/i7 machine, which would probably be perfect to throw on your college expenses. Toss in an extra 1500/2k on your college loans, and then in two years upgrade your CPU/GPU, and you'll stay about as future proof as you're going to get.

 

[stoner133]

I agree there is no such thing as futureproof in computing. What is here and now is obsolete in a year tops. If your going to go with a dual core AMD then you want the new Athlon X2 7750 its a AM2+ cpu based on the current Phenom platform. It's a 2.7Ghz cpu with the Phenom's 2mb L3 Cache and should be a great overclocking unit with only a $79.99 price at Newegg.

But with the Phenom II due out in a couple more weeks if your board supports it you may want to wait if you have the near $300 for the 940 3Ghz quad. The 940 is the AM2+ version and so far most of the socket AM2+ boards I have seen support it with a simple BIOS update. But remember the 945 will be out in Feb of next year and thats the new AM3+ cpu which uses the same socket as the AM2+ but it has DDR3 support and to use DDR3 you will need a new motherboard.

In the end you may be able to build you're computer that will last you four years but in the end after four years you will see how outdated it's become.

 

[iode]

Hehe, looks like building something futureproof on a budget seems pretty futile. I might as well go to alienware.com, cover up the price tag and just max out all the components and click buy before I know what happened haha.
Anyways, on a more realistic note, I haven't taken notice of the Athlon x2 7750. Until recently thanks to your post, but how does it compare with the 6400+? It seems that the only advantage of the 7750 is larger cache and its based on the 65nm architecture. Other than that, the 6400+ seems to have a higher clock speed, yet, I've heard that the 7750 BE has an unlocked multiplier, so that could be easily remedied, right?

 

[rangers]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116064
don't even think paying that much for a AMD processor
Intel Celeron E1200 1.6GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail $49.

ASUS P5Q SE/R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $102 plus $15 mail in rebate.
you take that and overclock the nuts off it.
and to the person recommending i7, the guys on a budget

 

[rangers]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131335
link for motherboard

 

[iode]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116064
don't even think paying that much for a AMD processor
Intel Celeron E1200 1.6GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail $49.

ASUS P5Q SE/R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $102 plus $15 mail in rebate.
you take that and overclock the nuts off it.
and to the person recommending i7, the guys on a budget

Thanks for the recommendation, but how would the Celeron E1200 compare to, say, the Athlon 64 x2 7750 (both overclocked)? I'm willing to buy processors up to $110 so that would make both the celeron and the athlon eligible for my budget.
About the motherboard, though it seems like a nice deal, I would prefer an SLI capable motherboard, mainly for graphics future-proofing. I'm sure two GTX260's can last me 4 years in college considering how long it took the 8800 to become obsolete (and it's still running pretty strong).

 

[ainarssems]

Here is my idea of budget futureproof:
1. M/B - P35/ P45 MB which supports 45 nm CPU's and at least 8GB RAM
2. CPU Intel E2220/E5200 overclocked with a look to change to second hand quad like Q9450/Q95550 from e-bay if necessary in future.
3. 4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM with possibility to expand to 8GB in future if required.
4. Video 8800/9800 GTS 512 or HD 4830/4850 for now and You can swap it later if required and resell old one. I would not go for SLI/Crossfire. In case of Nvidia You can use it for PhysX when You get new card.
5. PSU that gives little reserve to upgrade 550-650W

 

[rangers]

a E1200 1.6GHz overclocked to 3GHz will walk all over any athlon (overclocked or not). but if your willing to spend more get one of the low end core2s, the athlon does not stand a chance

 

[enaher]

a E1200 1.6GHz overclocked to 3GHz will walk all over any athlon (overclocked or not). but if your willing to spend more get one of the low end core2s, the athlon does not stand a chance

A E celron series belongs to the conroe series but belongs to a lower bin hasless cache and higher latencies, usually needs more bolts to overclock, and could hardly outperform a 6400, if it does at all... a E dual core on the other hand could do it, especially the e5200.

But, thinking on future proofing your system the only way would be as mentioned x58 and Ci7, other than taht its hard to say, id suggest you wait for next year around January, febuary, you'll get new gpu and cpu to pick, and best of all older ones might come down in price, and you might get something better.

 

[WR]

Four years is a very long time.

An Athlon64 or Phenom triple core is very poor future proofing for games; it's probably even slowing your GTX260 already, let alone SLI and future cards. So don't skimp on the motherboard; make sure it is AM2+ so that you can run Phenom II later. The CPU you're getting now is just a stopgap.

On the flip side, do you know what 4 years of gaming will do to your school grades?

 

[warezme]

Let me tell ya story bout a man named, Jed, poor mountaneer barely kept his family fed.... (sing along)

anyway, this is a story, I too try to build systems that keep me on top of the tech world but only for 2 years or so as 4 is generally pushing things. My last system began as 680iSLI mobo with E6400 (OC'ed to 3.5Ghz), 2GB Corsair Dominator memory, Single 8800GTX, Xfi Fatal1ty with break box and custom Danger Den cooling all in a sweet Lian Li V1000 case, a little over two years ago.

Along the way I added a second 8800GTX, I swapped out the E6400 for a Q6600 OC'ed to 3.2Ghz, 2GB more of memory. Turns out I the old 680iSLI would not run Q6600 over 3Ghz, so Evga replaced the 680iSLI with an A1 version that worked fine. Later I wanted the new Yorkfield Quad core. Guess what, the 680iSLI did not support Yorkfields so Evga allowed a one time trade up to the 780i SLI and I was happy again, even though I never installed a Yorkfield.

But through all that I have decided to build my next "future proof" machine which consists of an Evga X58, i7 920 OC'ed to 4.2Ghz, air cooled cause water cooling custom rigs are a pain in the as*, 6GB Corsair XMS3 (the fast model 12,000 something), 2 Evga GTX280's with the 90 step up plan soon to be replaced with 295's. All in a nice big Lian Li P80 case.

What I have learned:

This sh*t is expensive.
There is no such thing as "future proof", don't plan beyond 2 years
Choose your platform wisely that is upgradeable!
Pick a chip that can perform NOW as if it where two years in the future, hence 4.2Ghz OC.
Choose a great! manufacture that backs up your parts with 24/7 real live tech support
Plan on making upgrades or mods along the way as new stuff comes out.

The dual 8800GTX's was one of my wisest purchases about 2 years ago as the pair even now is hard to beat (my son likey now)

Xfi Fatal1ty is gone on to my new system as well as my Huappagee (spelling?) DVR capture card and thats it.

Good luck

 

[DXRick]

It would help if you gave us your budget for this build. However, just going by the CPU, an Intel E7300 build would cost about the same, offer better performance now, and give you the option to upgrade later.

It will be future proof until something comes out in the future that it can't run.

 

[iode]

In terms of upgradability, I'm going for a MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI Mother board. It as the am2+ socket and SLI capability, so it should be a good future-proof motherboard right?

 

[unclefester]

You may want to find what the differance between the 600 and the 750 Southbridge. Can't tell you off the top of my head. Other than that shouldn't be to bad.

 

[rangers]

A E celron series belongs to the conroe series but belongs to a lower bin hasless cache and higher latencies, usually needs more bolts to overclock, and could hardly outperform a 6400, if it does at all... a E dual core on the other hand could do it, especially the e5200.

But, thinking on future proofing your system the only way would be as mentioned x58 and Ci7, other than taht its hard to say, id suggest you wait for next year around January, febuary, you'll get new gpu and cpu to pick, and best of all older ones might come down in price, and you might get something better.

look the guys on a budget, so try and not over do it with the i7, yes i know he wants a future proof system, but come on get a grip
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4045-view-Celeron-E1200-overclock.html

Celeron-E1200 overclocked to 3.2 and it dont need any more volts that a normal core2 to hit that speed

 

[iode]

look the guys on a budget, so try and not over do it with the i7, yes i know he wants a future proof system, but come on get a grip
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4045-view-Celeron-E1200-overclock.html

Celeron-E1200 overclocked to 3.2 and it dont need any more volts that a normal core2 to hit that speed

Is the 3.2 ghz reachable on air cooling alone? Cus a 200% increase in speed seems pretty rediculous. How will this compare with an Athlon x2 7750 also overclocked to 3.2? Better/worse? The same (so save your money)?

 

[Malovane]

You will likely want to go with a 750 southbridge board for upgradability on an AMD system. All 790GX models have this, and some 790FX models. You really don't need the 790FX unless you are planning on putting 2 or more video cards in it. All boards with 750 southbridge should be built to the standards that Phenom II requires, and has ACC which allows much higher clock speeds to be reached when overclocking. 790GX boards can be had for under $100.

For processors, the new 7750 series from AMD is basically a Phenom with two disabled cores. This should mean it gets more performance per clock than the older Athlon series, but it is slightly slower at stock speeds (due to the lower clocks) than a 6000+ AMD, and comparable in gaming performance to an E6600 from Intel. You could probably push this a quite a bit higher with overclocking, and it would most likely trump any of the older X2 models.

A Phenom 9850 with 4 cores will have an edge over the 7750 in the long run, and is a fair bargain at $160. It's around the same performance as Intel's Q6600 (though many on these forums will froth at the mouth at such a thought). Just overclock to 3.2 to 3.3 Ghz while gaming and you should be good to go. However, the Phenom II is coming out, and will be quite superior.

But, what's your budget? I'm sure the brains here could draw something up if given some limitations.