Building new rig need help

I am a wow player and looking to get fps around 60-100. I get 20-30 fps in shat atm and was told my cpu is the problem ,that it is bottlenecking me. I am also looking to the future for games like starcraft 2 and diablo 3. I do plan on going sli in the future just not for a while so if you guys have any suggestions on board/cpu combos please dont hesitate.

Current setup - A8N-SLI Premium motherboard, 2gigs of Kingston HyperX KHX3200AK2 DDR400 PC3200 RAM, nvidia gforce 8800 gts and an athlon 64 4000+ 2.41 ghz cpu.

I was looking at upgrading to these parts tell me what you all think!

MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813188026

RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194

CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115037

What do you guys think would this be a great setup and nice upgrade? I plan on moving all the old parts to the new system please let me know if any of this would not work.

Sound - Audigy 2
Vid - BFG Geforce 8800 GTS
Case - Antec P160
HDD - Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V250F0 250GB Serial ATA (3.0Gb/s) 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer
DVD - Liteon LH-20A1P-185 20X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive
PSU - Ultra xconnect 500w ATX

I think thats everything...

Message edited by guitarwolf on 10-02-2008 at 09:22:46 AM

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I should have added this but my budget is about $425. Any problems with this setup? Bad mb or have suggestions for better parts? Nothing is set in stone here!

Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-29-2008 at 11:43:30 PM

Reply to guitarwolf

I think everything is nice.

If you are planning on using Vista, get the 64 bits version and get 4GB of RAM.

Are you planning to add a second 8800GTS one day? If not, just drop the NVidia chipset and go for a P35/P45.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/600609.png

Reply to Zenthar

Well as for going for the 2nd 8800 I was think yes since I already have one and would only have to buy the one. How good is the card these days? I cannot upgrade for quite a while either way.

I looked more at newegg and they are doing a combo deal for this psu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817182097 that comes out to a total of $224.98 for both the psu and mb!

Seems like a great deal am I missing the catch?

So I take it the mb is decent and I will be able to upgrade in the future with no problems? How much faster would this setup be than my current rig? Only 1 vid card atm keep in mind but I was curious why you suggested going for a different board?

Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-30-2008 at 01:11:27 AM

Reply to guitarwolf

I am also having problems deciding on a psu that would support sli in the future. Just how many watts do I need with 2 cards going?

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to guitarwolf

I don't really know how reputable Rosewill is in the PSU department, but given the amount of the combo rebate, I think it could very well be worth it unless someone tells you it's utter crap. You would probably be able to reuse it in an next build if we don't break the KW PSU for middle-range rigs .

Given the fact that Intel's next CPU will use a new socket and DDR3, the upgrade paths will be limited, but you will sure be able to switch to a Quad in 1-2 year when the prices for something like a Q9650 will be ridiculously low and applications will be better optimized for it.

I was suggesting a different chipset simply because the 700 line isn't the best there is. The only reason it is still alive IMO is that it's the only one to support SLI. Don't get me wrong it's not a bad chipset, it's just that Intel's P35 and P45 run much cooler, are more stables and O/C better.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

guitarwolf wrote :

I am also having problems deciding on a psu that would support sli in the future. Just how many watts do I need with 2 cards going?

It depends on the cards, for 2 8800GTS a good 600W could be enough, maybe even a good 550W, but for 2 4870x2 it's something way bigger, probably close to the KW mark.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Well to be honest I was initially going to go for this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131299

I then found out it does not support sli so I opted for the other mb. In my opinion it would make more sense to go for the board that is going to last the longest. If I ever decide to go crossfire I could just sell the card I have now and get 2 ati cards. How much better would this mb be?

Problem here is I dont get that sweet psu deal. What psu would you suggest with this mb and going crossfire in the future?

Reply to guitarwolf

Very similar setup to mine, except I'm using a P5Q Pro (P45 chipset). No complaints here, everything works great.

If you are planning on upping to a 2nd nvidia card of course, then the SLI board would be the way to go. Depending on what pair of cards you plan on running you can probably do two 8800's with a 650/700 watt PS assuming its a good quality Power Supply. Corsairs have been very reliable for me so far, I've built many pc's with 620 to 750 watt corsairs and have yet to have a complaint from anyone.

Just remember with power supplies its not 100%, a crappy 800watt PS can fail where a good quality 650watt will run without problems. Don't cheap out here, remember its feeding power to all your expensive components, you want it to do a good job.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to invlem

invlem wrote :

Very similar setup to mine, except I'm using a P5Q Pro (P45 chipset). No complaints here, everything works great.

If you are planning on upping to a 2nd nvidia card of course, then the SLI board would be the way to go. Depending on what pair of cards you plan on running you can probably do two 8800's with a 650/700 watt PS assuming its a good quality Power Supply. Corsairs have been very reliable for me so far, I've built many pc's with 620 to 750 watt corsairs and have yet to have a complaint from anyone.

Just remember with power supplies its not 100%, a crappy 800watt PS can fail where a good quality 650watt will run without problems. Don't cheap out here, remember its feeding power to all your expensive components, you want it to do a good job.

lol look at my post above I planned on grabbing that board initially. I am leaning towards it now even more since when I decide to go dual cards I can go ati since it isnt going to be for a bit as long as I can use my 8800gts in the meantime. How would this baby do for psu?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] MPSU-750TX

I am basically trying to avoid having to get a new psu when I decide to go crossfire.

Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-30-2008 at 01:56:17 AM

Reply to guitarwolf

Well I updated the 1st post to what I plan on buying. Ordering soon so now is the time to comment if anything seems wrong. I should notice a substantial improvement in my fps in wow right? Even without going crossfire I should have no problem running the game at 60fps?

I just want the upgrade to be worth it

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to guitarwolf

Is there a big difference between http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145184 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-30-2008 at 03:25:02 AM

Reply to guitarwolf

guitarwolf wrote :

Is there a big difference between http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145184 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194

The latency (CAS) which means the number of cycles the module takes to handle specific operations; the lower the latency, the faster. It's not a BIG performance difference, but for 13$ difference, it might be worth it. Moreover, memory with lower latency often can O/C better if you just increase the latency.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

guitarwolf wrote :

Well I updated the 1st post to what I plan on buying. Ordering soon so now is the time to comment if anything seems wrong. I should notice a substantial improvement in my fps in wow right? Even without going crossfire I should have no problem running the game at 60fps?

I just want the upgrade to be worth it

You don't have to get an Intel chipset, specially if you have no plan to O/C. Going for a 750i board which leave you with the option of adding a second 8800GTS (which are insanely cheap) would be a great path and require much less $$$ than actually having to change cards for CrossFire.

As for game performance, I don't know WoW, but changing CPU+MB+RAM will probably not increase performance by THAT much. How many FPS are you getting now? Maybe adding a second 8800GTS right now (and maybe another 2GB of RAM) would give better short-term results. It depends on how much the CPU intensive WoW is.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

When things get crazy my frames dip below 20 fps. I dont know if it is true but I was told that my current cpu is holding back my performance. I went ahead and purchased the mb/cpu for now since there was a $20 rebate and $35 combo deal thats some nice savings. Going to order the ram and psu later this week. I think in the long run this seems the best choice. I could always grab 2 Radeon 4850 down the road to max things out while sticking with my card for now.

I am convinced its not the vid card since no matter the setting the fps do not change, something is holding it back.

Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-30-2008 at 06:14:07 AM

Reply to guitarwolf

The bast advice I can give is to buy the DFI BloodIron and to NOT buy Asus.
Asus support for a broken board sucks.
The DFI BloodIron is a great stable board.

Reply to bobbknight

After doing some more thinking and that last post I canceled the order and plan on going for a sli board. You are right it is much cheaper just grabbing another 8800gts. If anyone has better suggestions than a ASUS P5N-D please put them up I will check it out in the morning.

Everything else is staying the same atm. Hope there are more deals at the end of October!

Reply to guitarwolf

Actually, I wanted to build a very similar system to the one posted above. I'm thinking of getting the C2D E8400 FSB1333Mhz as well. But I'm thinking of getting the MSI P7N SLI Platinum Mobo base off this article.
http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] ,1962.html

But it's been a while since I last built a system, so I wanted to ask what kind of ram speed should I pick.
DDR2-800, DDR2-1066 or DDR3-1333?

Wouldn't the DDR2-800 bottleneck up the FSB of 1333?

I read in the discussion of the MB shootout article, that theoretically, I would only need DDR2-667 to match the FSB1333 because of dual channel mode.

Did I interpreted it wrongly? because it that is true, and right now FSB only runs at 1333/1600 max, it wouldn't make sense for anyone to buy RAM above 800Mhz as long as they're installed in dual channel mode (which is the default in most cases anyway).

I'm confused, please help.

EDIT: Thanks for the reply below!!
Most likely I'll be getting the Corsair XMS2 6400C4DHX

Message edited by teejenlooi on 09-30-2008 at 06:12:57 PM

Reply to teejenlooi

You are right, for 1333MHz FSB you only need 667MHZ DDR2 and for 1600 MHz FSB (native or O/Ced) you need 800MHz DDR2. Anything above that will give very little real performance gain (probably only in static benchmark tests).

However, it has nothing to do with dual-channel, it's because of DDR and FSB. The MB has it's own clock and the FSB runs at 4x that speed, the DDR runs at 2x that clock (that is why it's called Double Data Rate). Therefore 1333FSB is 333 base clock which will give 667 DDR and 1600FSB will give 400 base clock and 800 DDR.

As for your pick, stick with what is cheaper (probably DDR2-800). Keep in mind that CAS4 DDR2-800 is about equal to CAS5 DDR2-1066.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Updated first post. The msi board looks nice, I saw a review of it on youtube too. Everything seems to be solid at the moment and I am feeling better about not having to grab 2 totally new cards. Newegg had me on those damn combo deals... Could also go quad core down the line with this board which is nice too.

Here is something we have not talked about. I only use one case fan atm (rear) and usually settle for the stock fans on cpus. I have a few extra fans laying around. I could throw one in my case since it does have one more slot open in the front so that would be 2 case fans. Should I grab a cpu cooler on top of that? Are they really worth it? I am not too experienced with overclocking but would love to give it a go with this cpu and if that is a must I can grab one before I try.

Another thing, I was talking to asus customer support and they said I need a 1000w PSU to go sli with 2 8800gts... Is it bs or will I be ok with the 750w? Keep in mind my card is BFG so they overclock a bit if that matters.

Message edited by guitarwolf on 09-30-2008 at 09:15:54 PM

Reply to guitarwolf

Come to think of it they said I need over 600w to upgrade to the new system only running one 8800gts. I am using a ultra xconnect 500w atm. Am I ok with this PSU for now? Wouldnt mind upgrading the PSU when I go sli.

Reply to guitarwolf

Adding a front fan wouldn't hurt, but I think the CPU cooler is worth it only if the PC will be in a very hot environment or if you are planning on OCing.

As for the PSU I think you will be just fine, I got a Corsair 520W with a GTS, 4GB of RAM 2 HDs, 2 DVDs and I got no problems. According to EVGA's website you need a 450W PSU to run 8800GTS in SLI so ...

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Wow idk why they would tell me that. Saves me a lot of money though! Well if that is the case I will just pickup the PSU when I grab a 2nd card and stick with my 500w for now.

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html

Looking there and will just grab one of those when the time comes.

Reply to guitarwolf

Don't limit yourself to the list on NVidia website, I'm sure the PSU companies has to pay for that certification so they probably certify only the PSU on which they will make the most profit .

Just come back to the forum and I'm sure someone will be able to point in the right direction.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Sounds good thanks a lot for your help Zenth I really appreciate it.

Reply to guitarwolf

Using this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] _-13130159

I will be able to run 2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814143119 correct? Some were saying it takes up 2 slots and it is a very big card so was just double checking 2 can be run.

Reply to guitarwolf

I read the spec and it seems PCI-E slots 2 and 3 runs only at x8, you might want to consider the EVGA 750i FTW, it "only" has 2 slots, but they all run at x16 (full speed). And yes, both will allow you to run 2 GTS, but the EVGA one might be ~10% faster because of the full x16 SLI.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Checking it out thanks for noticing that man. I never planned on going triple sli so that isnt a problem. Keeping my current PSU is still ok with this board?

I was also checking out different ram and came across http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145184

if you compare it to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194 the only thing I noticed was lat, timing and voltage, are the more expensive ones that much better? I dont know much about ram but I am betting those 3 things count.

Overall seems like a solid board that should last me quite a while.

On a side not I ran 3dmark today and the cpu test was 945. I was getting 0 fps! The graphic card tests were doing ok so I cant wait to see my new score without my cpu holding the card back. Total score was 5980

Reply to guitarwolf

Boards power consumption aren't that different from each other, so you should be ok.

For RAM, the XMS2 costs much more, but look on NewEgg, you can get many other CAS4 DDR2-800 for close to half that price (look here).

As for the CPU test, you normally get really low FPS in 3DMark, even with a E8400 you will probably have like 1-2FPS . I think some Quads achieve 2-4 FPS.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Call me crazy but I am thinking of just grabbing this baby

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115017

Only $20 more and it should last me much longer. Wont have to be worried about being bottlenecked when going sli.

As for the RAM leaning towards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194 has a nice rebate.

Thoughts?

Reply to guitarwolf

Depending on what kind of games/applications you are into, the Q6600 won't give you much more performance. Take a look at Tom's updated CPU chart; for some games, like supreme commander (a RTS) the quad is better, but for most FPS, the dual is better (because of higher clock).

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Well that is pretty surprising. I may just stick with the e8400 since this rig is pretty much for wow, starcaft 2 and diablo 3. Either way it doesnt look like one or the other is a huge difference so I may save the $20.

Reply to guitarwolf

Actually I don't think WoW is very CPU intensive (most processing is done Server-side); as for SC2 et D3, both are RTS so I guess they would behave more like supreme commander and use multiple cores more efficiently than FPS. Therefore the Q6600 might be a better option.

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Well it is down to the RAM the MB had a price drop and rebate added!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145194

vs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820145184

There is a $10 combo deal with the cpu if I get the cas5 so that would be a total savings of $24 counting rebates. What do you think? I will be most likely ordering next week pretty excited about it!

Reply to guitarwolf

I would personally go for the CAS 4 (1st one), but that's me. It cost a bit more, won't give you a lot better performance, but by buying it I feel I get a better quality product .

------------------------------ The capacity to learn is a gift; The ability to learn is a skill; The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz

Reply to Zenthar

Everything has been ordered! I will post back on the new rig once everything arrives which should be by Wednesday at the latest. Thanks again for the help!

Reply to guitarwolf

UP and running on the new system with no problems!!! Everything is running with updated drivers and nice and cool too! I already can notice a difference in the speed of loading and how apps install. I ran 3dmark and check out the boost!

Cpu score was 2746
Total 9704

That is quite the increase from 5900 almost twice as fast! No problems with my current psu either so I am going to grab another when I get the 2nd 8800gts later in the year. May also get into overclocking this baby! Going to test wow tonight see what my fps look like. Just wanted to say thanks for all the help!

Reply to guitarwolf

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