Issues with air cooling in ATCS-840

[soo-nah-mee]

I’m having some issues with air cooling in my new Cooler Master ATCS-840 case and was hoping there may be some people with ideas that may help me in this forum. I wasn’t getting much help in the Steam forums where I usually post.
Sorry for the long post; I really appreciate anyone taking the time to read it and any advice that is offered.

So I replaced my Antec 900 mid tower with a beautiful black ATSC-840. Although the 900 cooled everything very well, I was sick of jamming my big hands into tiny places, plus I never really liked the appearance of the case either. Looks were somewhat important because this PC doubles as my gaming rig AND a HTPC, so it is quite visible in my hyper-masculine man cave. Quite simply, the ATCS-840 looks awesome and I love it.

The problem is that just about all my temps are 5-15 deg. C higher than with the 900.

All of the goods inside the case are identical to what was in the old one:
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.8 GHz (211 x 18; 1.5v)
Mobo: Asus Crosshair III Formula – AMD 790FX / SB750
GPU: (2) Sapphire HD4870’s (1 Gb ea.) in CrossfireX
RAM: G.Skill 4x2 Gb - DDR3 1600 MHz
HDD: WD Caviar Black
PSU: Corsair HX750W
Case: Cooler Master ATCS-840
Mobo/Fan Controller: Asus OC Station
CPU Cooler: Corsair H50
RAM Cooler: G.Skill Turbulence

Here is a description of my fan setup:
INTAKE
Front panel: 230mm CM fan @ 750 rpm
Bottom panel: 120mm Delta fan @ up to 3000 rpm (usually @2200 rpm)
Back panel: 120mm Corsair fan w/ H50 @1700 rpm + 120mm Rosewill fan @1750 rpm in a push/pull configuration

EXHAUST
Top panel: (2) 230mm CM fans @ 750 rpm ea.
Back panel: 120mm CM fan @ 1250 rpm (GPU exhaust)

INTERIOR FANS:
(2) 120mm Scythe S-Flex fans @ up to 1900 rpm ea. (usually @ 1200 rpm) in this position
Antec Spotcool aimed across the north bridge and up a bit to try and direct the warm air from the H50 upwards and out the top
G.Skill Turbulence RAM cooler fan

Eleven fans inside this case now, not including GPU fans. (I do plan on replacing the stock GPU coolers soon with Arctic Cooling passive coolers, so 2 less fans then.) I'm thinking I'm either still not equalizing the air pressure, or there is just a mess of air currents blowing around in there. I realize that more is often not better when it comes to number of fans, so I’m definitely open to removing some of them.

As of now, the only other thing I can think of to do is add a 250mm fan into the side panel. That's the one thing I think I'm missing from the 900 case. It was only a 120mm on the 900, but it blew right on the mobo, so I think that made a big difference.

Here's some pics of the build, although some of the fans are in different spots since I took the pics.

 

[Conumdrum]

You could try this? Cut the chees grate out of the case areas where the fans are. From what I see you have a 200 in the front,a 120 on the bottom, and two 120's on the top. Thats pretty good flow. Are all the fans blowing in the right direction? Bottom ones in, H50 in and top ones out? Increase RPM on the fans?

All I can think of is the cheese grate really if it's all temp are higher.

 

[Guest]

You could always try Water-Cooling it and get an even better curb appeal. May be something like this.






Also this case needs fans with alot of static pressure not cfm. The fans on top are low pressure and don't move the air through the tight mess on top very well. Try using the adapter and three 120mm fans that have good pressure. The stock top fans dont move the air as fast as you are pumping it in so your H50 is just filling the case with hot air. Also romove the PCI fan over the rear of you videcards as they have showen in some reviews it doesn't do much and in some cases it hinders the video card cooling by adding resistance to the air coming out of them. Good Luck

 

[Shadow703793]

Also romove the PCI fan over the rear of you videcards as they have showen in some reviews it doesn't do much and in some cases it hinders the video card cooling by adding resistance to the air coming out of them.

+1. This happened to my 9800GTX.

 

[soo-nah-mee]

Thanks for the replies people!
AGirlsBuild: Can you offer any advice on components to buy or any links to a beginner's guide to liquid cooling? I'm starting to think I'd like to go that route, but I have no idea where to start.

 

[Shadow703793]

^ http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/256607-29-watercooling-read-first
Unless you can drop ~$220-350 just on the CPU loop, don't bother.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies people!
AGirlsBuild: Can you offer any advice on components to buy or any links to a beginner's guide to liquid cooling? I'm starting to think I'd like to go that route, but I have no idea where to start.

The link that Shadow70379 supplied is the same info i used and still use from time to time when it comes to W/C. If you still want to W/C after reading and doing some research i would be glad to give you some ideas on what parts work well in this caes. Good Luck

 

[soo-nah-mee]

I think I'm going to go against the Corsair manual and try switching the H50 to an exhaust. I'm almost certain that the excessive mobo heat is due to the H50 pumping in warm air.

Even with better exhaust at the top, the two fans on the H50 are almost directly blasting the north bridge with warm air. I've read that others have had to do the same thing and had good results. The CPU ran 2-3 deg. C warmer, but the interior of the case was MUCH cooler. 2-3 deg. is okay with me because at full OC I'm not breaking 50 deg. C on the CPU.

If that doesn't work I think I'll return the H50 to best buy and go with a Noctua heatsink cooler. The 5 deg. decrease I got in CPU temp is not worth all of this headache.

 

[soo-nah-mee]

Okay, I'm still going to try mounting the H50 as described above, but my expectations are low, and I'm trying to plan out a potential water cooled system.

My plan would be to skip the GPUs, at least for now, and add a 2nd loop it I decide to do them in the future. My main concern right now is the CPU and chipset. I found a really nice chipset block made specifically for my Asus Crosshair III mobo, which I think is really cool.

Here's my preliminary list. I'd love to here some opinions on my choices. Thanks!

Koolance MB-ASC3F (ASUS Crosshair III Formula) Chipset Water Block ($127)

Swiftech Apogee XT CPU Water Block ($80)

Swiftech AP-XT-MULTI-HDP AM3 Hardware Kit For Apogee XT ($12)

XSPC Laing DDC Reservoir Pump Attachment w/ Swiftech MCP-355 Pump ($140)

Swiftech MCR320 "Quiet Power" Triple 120mm Radiator

One more of these fans for a total of three for the radiator (I have 2 now) ($15)


That's all I have so far. I realize I still need fittings, tubing and coolant. I'm thinking I can use distilled water as coolant and 3/8" PVC tubing from Home Depot. What type of fittings are the most reliable? Simple barbs and clamps?

 

[Guest]

Okay, I'm still going to try mounting the H50 as described above, but my expectations are low, and I'm trying to plan out a potential water cooled system.

My plan would be to skip the GPUs, at least for now, and add a 2nd loop it I decide to do them in the future. My main concern right now is the CPU and chipset. I found a really nice chipset block made specifically for my Asus Crosshair III mobo, which I think is really cool.

Here's my preliminary list. I'd love to here some opinions on my choices. Thanks!

Koolance MB-ASC3F (ASUS Crosshair III Formula) Chipset Water Block ($127)

Swiftech Apogee XT CPU Water Block ($80)

Swiftech AP-XT-MULTI-HDP AM3 Hardware Kit For Apogee XT ($12)

Swiftech MCP655-B Pump ($90)

Swiftech MCR320 "Quiet Power" Triple 120mm Radiator w/ Reservoir ($76)

One more of these fans for a total of three for the radiator (I have 2 now) ($15)


That's all I have so far. I realize I still need fittings, tubing and coolant. I'm thinking I can use distilled water as coolant and 3/8" PVC tubing from Home Depot. What type of fittings are the most reliable? Simple barbs and clamps?

One thing if you plan on mounting the Rad inside the top of the case that Rad has the built in fill/res. You need something more like this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5795/ex-rad-121/Swiftech_MCR320_Quiet_Power_Triple_120mm_Radiator_-_Black_MCR320-QP-K.html?tl=g30c95s161 it is high flow and will do great. The chip-set block is not needed some will say, But i like the extra drop in temps and the one you choose will do fine. Use distilled water nothing else just add some of this to the res. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8319/ex-liq-140/PetrasTech_PT_Nuke_-PHN_Concentrated_Biocide_10mL.html?tl=g30c103 . On the hose you can use some from Home Depot just pay attention to how fast it kinks. I use Bits-power for my fittings. Make sure they are G1/4 fittings and do not over tightennn them. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6953/ex-tub-17Bits-powerer_Chrome_G14_Barb_Fitting_-_12_ID.html?tl=g30c407 . Make sure your tubing 1/2 ID for that pump. You will still need a res... So look around.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8336/ex-res-144/Swiftech_MCRES_Micro_Rev_2_Small_Form_Factor_High-Flow_Reservoir_12_ID_and_38_ID.html?tl=g30c97
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2184/ex-res-104/XSPC_525_Bay_Reservoir_-_Black.html?tl=g30c97
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6230/ex-res-128/XSPC_525_Bay_Liquid_Cooling_Reservoir_w_Blue_LED_Light_-_Clear.html?tl=g30c97
Our what ever you choose, just make sure it will work in your setup. The fans you choose should do fine. You can also get this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7272/ex-pmp-63/XSPC_Laing_DDC_Reservoir_Pump_Attachment_w_MCP-350355_No_Fittings.html?tl=g30c107s152 with this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5125/ex-pmp-47/Swiftech_MCP355_12v_Water_Pump_Native_38_120_GPH.html and be done. This will run your loop with that head/res just fine. For clamps i like these http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7888/koo-151/Koolance_Reusable_19mm_34_OD_Hose_Clamp_CLM-19.html?tl=g30c289 and i've tried a few. Are something like them. That res top / pump is nice you can keep from running the pump dry when purging the loop. Good Luck

 

[soo-nah-mee]

Thanks a bunch for the feedback.
So it looks like I'm somewhat on the right track. I wasn't going to do a chipset block, but after seeing that mobo-specific Koolance unit, I think I must have it. That just looks too friggen cool. I edited the link above to reflect the radiator without a built in res. Regarding the pump/res combo, does that pump have enough capacity for two blocks and a 320 radiator? That is the original one I was going to go with - seems to be one of the most popular. Looks great with the matching res too.

Thanks again. I'll post pics on this thread if I decide to go forward with the water mod.

 

[Guest]

Thanks a bunch for the feedback.
So it looks like I'm somewhat on the right track. I wasn't going to do a chipset block, but after seeing that mobo-specific Koolance unit, I think I must have it. That just looks too friggen cool. I edited the link above to reflect the radiator without a built in res. Regarding the pump/res combo, does that pump have enough capacity for two blocks and a 320 radiator? That is the original one I was going to go with - seems to be one of the most popular. Looks great with the matching res too.

Thanks again. I'll post pics on this thread if I decide to go forward with the water mod.

That will work. With that head it will compare to the MCP655 pump. You will be fine.
Good luck.

 

[Shadow703793]

Okay, I'm still going to try mounting the H50 as described above, but my expectations are low, and I'm trying to plan out a potential water cooled system.

My plan would be to skip the GPUs, at least for now, and add a 2nd loop it I decide to do them in the future. My main concern right now is the CPU and chipset. I found a really nice chipset block made specifically for my Asus Crosshair III mobo, which I think is really cool.

Here's my preliminary list. I'd love to here some opinions on my choices. Thanks!

Koolance MB-ASC3F (ASUS Crosshair III Formula) Chipset Water Block ($127)

Swiftech Apogee XT CPU Water Block ($80)

Swiftech AP-XT-MULTI-HDP AM3 Hardware Kit For Apogee XT ($12)

XSPC Laing DDC Reservoir Pump Attachment w/ Swiftech MCP-355 Pump ($140)

Swiftech MCR320 "Quiet Power" Triple 120mm Radiator

One more of these fans for a total of three for the radiator (I have 2 now) ($15)


That's all I have so far. I realize I still need fittings, tubing and coolant. I'm thinking I can use distilled water as coolant and 3/8" PVC tubing from Home Depot. What type of fittings are the most reliable? Simple barbs and clamps?

1. Ditch the Chipset waterblock.

2. Consider a MCP655 + micro res. (Note: More or less the same performance as the MCP355 + XSPC top but a bit quieter)

3. Everything else looks pretty good.

That's all I have so far. I realize I still need fittings, tubing and coolant. I'm thinking I can use distilled water as coolant and 3/8" PVC tubing from Home Depot. What type of fittings are the most reliable? Simple barbs and clamps?

The PVC tube at Home Depot is cr@p imo as they will kink easily. Get some Tygon or Primoflex LRT. As for fittings,tubing size go with 1/2" ID minimum. Run Distilled Water + PTNuke or KillCoils. Barbs and clamps or compression fittings work well.

 

[soo-nah-mee]

1. Ditch the Chipset waterblock.

Sounds like both of you agree it is a waste of money. The two things that draw me to it are:
1) It looks cool
2) In this case my NB temps run 5-7 deg. hotter than in my 900.

Now, during P95 at full OC, I'm getting up to 43 deg. C. on the NB. That's probably no big deal right? It just frustrates me that is was better in the other case.


An update on the H50: Turning the fans around and making it an exhaust cooled the inside of the case down quite a bit. There also was no rise in CPU temp at all! I wonder how people try the H50 and get the results I did by following the instructions, and never realize how much better it works the "wrong way"?

Either way I think WC is still the way to go. These fans are friggen' loud. Saving money on not buying that expensive fancy chipset block would be nice too. Maybe the NB/SB/Mobo temps will improve with a CPU loop? I don't know.

 

[soo-nah-mee]

A quick question: If I do skip the chipset block and this ends up being a CPU only loop, then will a 220 radiator be enough? ...Or is it still best to go with a 320 where the 3 fans can run at a lower rpm?

 

[inquartata]

Disable the top fan closest to the front. You should see a real drop in temps. The reason? Positive air pressure helping the exhaust of hot air and instead of exhausting air before it reaches the mobo you force air over it.

If you have 3x 5.25 drivebays free at the bottom you could also get a kama bay intake fan. Would really be interested in knowing what your temps are before and after.

 

[soo-nah-mee]

Disable the top fan closest to the front. You should see a real drop in temps. The reason? Positive air pressure helping the exhaust of hot air and instead of exhausting air before it reaches the mobo you force air over it.

I just tried this last night and it did help. I then covered that fan with a notebook (while it was turned off) and it helped even more. Very good tip. I may remove that fan (keep it as a spare) and put a plastic cover in it's place.

If you have 3x 5.25 drivebays free at the bottom you could also get a kama bay intake fan. Would really be interested in knowing what your temps are before and after.

I do have exactly three 5.25 bays open and I was thinking of trying something like that. I was looking at this CM bay insert, but I like the look of that Scythe Kama MUCH better. Looks like I can replace that little 1/2" thick fan with a standard one too,

I'll post temps when I have things together.
Right now I'm on hold with the WC. I'm going to try that Kama Bay insert and see how that works.

 

[Shadow703793]

A quick question: If I do skip the chipset block and this ends up being a CPU only loop, then will a 220 radiator be enough? ...Or is it still best to go with a 320 where the 3 fans can run at a lower rpm?

Go with the 320 imo. 220 is cutting it close these days.

 

[Conumdrum]

soo-nah?

Come to OC forums, my home forum. We have more than 2.5 expert watercoolers there who can guide you if you decide to go water.

Expect to spend close to $300 for great loop, $250 if you scrimp a bit, Then depending on an extrenal or internal setup.

Otherwise, stay air....................

 

[soo-nah-mee]

soo-nah?

Come to OC forums, my home forum. We have more than 2.5 expert watercoolers there who can guide you if you decide to go water.

Expect to spend close to $300 for great loop, $250 if you scrimp a bit, Then depending on an extrenal or internal setup.

Otherwise, stay air....................

Thanks for the tip regarding your the forum. There are so many to pick from, I wasn't really sure where to start.

Bjorn3D.com
Overclockersclub.com
Overclock.net
Overclockers.com
Extremeoverclocking.com
Guru3D.com
Pureoverclock.com
????????
Tough to pick just one, and it's a PITA to manage posting in more than one or two.

 

[inquartata]

I just tried this last night and it did help. I then covered that fan with a notebook (while it was turned off) and it helped even more. Very good tip. I may remove that fan (keep it as a spare) and put a plastic cover in it's place.

I'll post temps when I have things together.
Right now I'm on hold with the WC. I'm going to try that Kama Bay insert and see how that works.

Nice to be able to help. I have been researching different cooling options for the ATCS 840 for a few months and I have to admit that I am using you as a kind of guinea-pig in preparation for my own build. I am planning on getting a Kama Bay as well. Unfortunately the retailers here (Finland) do not have it in stock so I am trying to find alternatives.

Lian-Li has a similar product but I also feel the Kama Bay is nicer looking. http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1410.html

-Inq

 

[soo-nah-mee]

Nice to be able to help. I have been researching different cooling options for the ATCS 840 for a few months and I have to admit that I am using you as a kind of guinea-pig in preparation for my own build. I am planning on getting a Kama Bay as well. Unfortunately the retailers here (Finland) do not have it in stock so I am trying to find alternatives.

Lian-Li has a similar product but I also feel the Kama Bay is nicer looking.

Yeah, I saw the Lian-Li one before and didn't like the logo/name right in the middle.

I ordered the Kama Bay last night so my fan setup will be as follows:

INTAKE
Front panel: CM 230mm @ 750 rpm (intake)
Bottom three 5.25 bays: Kama Bay insert w/ 120x120x25 @ 800-2000rpm (intake + mobo & chipset cooling)
Bottom panel: open

EXHAUST
Top panel (rear): CM 230mm @ 750 rpm (exhaust)
Rear panel: (2) Scythe 120mm @ 800-2000rpm (exhaust + H50 CPU cooler)
Top panel (front): 230mm fan removed and opening covered

That should provide about neutral pressure inside the case.

Also,
INTERIOR
Upper fan mount on back of HDD bay: Delta 120x120x38 @ 1200-3000rpm (GPU blaster)
G.Skill Turbulence RAM cooler
I may also try aiming my Antec Spotcool fan toward the NB and see if that makes a difference one way or the other.

I’ll update this thread with pics and temps once I have it together. Hopefully the Kama Bay will be here by Friday.