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Scart connectors

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Anonymous
March 28, 2005 7:50:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Hi,

I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV via
two separate scart cables.

However, I've noticed in the video recorder manual that it says to connect
the video to the Sky box with a scart cable via the second scart adapter on
the video and Sky box (AV2).

But what benefit would this give me if I already have them both connected to
the TV already?

Also, what's the difference between a 'fully wired' scart cable and
'non-fully wired' scart cable?

Thanks

Andy

More about : scart connectors

Anonymous
March 28, 2005 8:10:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:50:25 +0000 (UTC), "Andy K"
<kilmo@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Also, what's the difference between a 'fully wired' scart cable and
>'non-fully wired' scart cable?

It's as obvious as it sounds... SCART is a 21-pin connector. In a
fully-wired SCART, all 21 pins are connected at both ends of the
cable. In a non-fully-wired SCART they, erm, aren't.

Usually a non-fully-wired cable will carry composite video and audio
in both directions, but it won't carry RGB or widescreen signalling
etc.

Steve

The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
March 28, 2005 8:20:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Andy K said the following on 2005-03-28 16:50:
> Hi,
>
> I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV via
> two separate scart cables.
>
> However, I've noticed in the video recorder manual that it says to connect
> the video to the Sky box with a scart cable via the second scart adapter on
> the video and Sky box (AV2).
>
> But what benefit would this give me if I already have them both connected to
> the TV already?
>

You can record from Sky via SCART, which theoretically, gives you better
recording quality, and it you have a NICAM VCR, it will record in stereo
as well.

Kev
Related resources
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 9:20:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Thus spaketh Andy K:
> Hi,
>
> I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the
> TV via two separate scart cables.
>
> However, I've noticed in the video recorder manual that it says to
> connect the video to the Sky box with a scart cable via the second
> scart adapter on the video and Sky box (AV2).
>
> But what benefit would this give me if I already have them both
> connected to the TV already?
>
> Also, what's the difference between a 'fully wired' scart cable and
> 'non-fully wired' scart cable?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andy

If you connect the VCR to the Sky Digibox and then the Sky Digibox to the TV,
you will only need two scart leads, one between the VCR and the Sky Digibox
and one between the Sky Digibox and the TV. This also means you free up a
scart socket on your TV which you could use for a DVD player.

With the above connection, you will be able to record Sky Digital on your VCR,
you will also be able to view either Sky Digital, or your VCR playback.

Why waste a scart socket on the TV when you don't need to? Both the VCR and
Sky Digibox will appear to be using the one scart socket, pressing play on the
VCR takes over from the Sky Digibox, it uses the Sky Digibox as a switching
unit.

Fully wired scart, means all the pins are wired up, you would need a fully
wired scart so the signal from the Sky Digibox can be connected to the VCR for
recording, and then the signal from the VCR to the Digibox so it can then send
that to the TV for playback.
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 9:22:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Andy K wrote:

> But what benefit would this give me if I already have them both
> connected to the TV already?

You'd be able to record from the Sky box, which you can't do at the
moment, and it would free up a scart on the TV to plug a Playstation2
into.

> Also, what's the difference between a 'fully wired' scart cable and
> 'non-fully wired' scart cable?

The fully wired one has all 21 pins connected. A non-fully wired might
have sufficient wires to be able to say handle only composite video,
but not RGB or S-Video. It may even be wired up to work only one way, so
you'd have to get the cable the right way round for it to work. Having
all 21 pins connected means it will handle any form of feed designed for
a scart and will also be fully two-way so it wouldn't matter which way
round you connected it.

The advantage of a non-fully wired scart is it would probably be smaller
diameter cable and easier to handle, and it would have no chance of any
potential for cross-talk as the other cables would be missing.

Regards

Mark
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 11:43:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Andy K wrote:

>I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV via
>two separate scart cables.

Wrong!

See the FAQ.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
March 29, 2005 2:17:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Jomtien wrote:
> Andy K wrote:
>
>
>>I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV via
>>two separate scart cables.
>
>
> Wrong!
>
> See the FAQ.
>

I have this set up too. It is not wrong, it depends on what kit / needs
you have.

In my case the Sky box is connected to the only RGB enabled Scart
connector on my TV. My Sky box is set to output RGB on AV1, not
Composite. The TV Scart #1 is configured to accept RGB. If my VCR is
connected to the Sky AV2, the composite signal is passed through, but as
the TV is expecting RGB from the Sky box, the VCR output is nowhere to
be seen.

So I disagree with your assessment that this type of set up is "wrong"!!
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 2:55:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:
>
> So I disagree with your assessment that this type of set up is
> "wrong"!!

But surely you must be aware that Jomtein is always right under any
circumstances, and that his opinions are really facts?

Regards

Mark
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 3:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

If you have a fully wired scart lead going from yourVCR to the VCR scart on
your digibox and you press play on your VCR the signal will go through
digibox/sky+box whether its on or off and be displayed on the TV, however
just turning the vcr on will not send a signal to the digibox to switch to
vcr mode so you are correct in saying that "the VCR output is nowhere to
be seen". If your setup suits you then it IS correct for you.
Setting it up as described... VCR---scart---digibox---scart-----TV wil allow
recording direct from the digibox with ease.

Steven.



If your vcr is relatively new your remote control may have a "Malice"
<malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote in message
news:o NSdnZb3e4GSgNTfRVnyrg@pipex.net...
> Jomtien wrote:
> > Andy K wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV
via
> >>two separate scart cables.
> >
> >
> > Wrong!
> >
> > See the FAQ.
> >
>
> I have this set up too. It is not wrong, it depends on what kit / needs
> you have.
>
> In my case the Sky box is connected to the only RGB enabled Scart
> connector on my TV. My Sky box is set to output RGB on AV1, not
> Composite. The TV Scart #1 is configured to accept RGB. If my VCR is
> connected to the Sky AV2, the composite signal is passed through, but as
> the TV is expecting RGB from the Sky box, the VCR output is nowhere to
> be seen.
>
> So I disagree with your assessment that this type of set up is "wrong"!!
March 29, 2005 3:41:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

B@ndit wrote:
> If you have a fully wired scart lead going from yourVCR to the VCR scart on
> your digibox and you press play on your VCR the signal will go through
> digibox/sky+box whether its on or off and be displayed on the TV, however
> just turning the vcr on will not send a signal to the digibox to switch to
> vcr mode so you are correct in saying that "the VCR output is nowhere to
> be seen". If your setup suits you then it IS correct for you.
> Setting it up as described... VCR---scart---digibox---scart-----TV wil allow
> recording direct from the digibox with ease.
>
> Steven.
>
>
>
..... and notwithstanding the fact that my TV appears to be able to route
any input to the output on its VCR Scart. So although TV Scart #1 is
set to accept and show RGB from the Digibox, the composite from the Sky
box (it outputs both RGB and composite on AV1 when in "RGB" mode) is
looped through the TV set back to the VCR Scart, so recording is "easy".

You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on
seperate Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his
bedroom and another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so.
Having the VCR looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non
starter.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 3:52:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

"Malice" <malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote in message
news:cqednTMKxv5UrdTfRVnysw@pipex.net...
> B@ndit wrote:

<snip>
>
> You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on seperate
> Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his bedroom and
> another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so. Having the VCR
> looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non starter.

All of which prompts me to ask what the maximum useful length of a SCART
lead can be, please?

Thanks

Chas
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 5:46:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <d2bfhk$ngc$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Chas
Gill <Chas.Gill@gollum.btinternet.com> writes
>
>"Malice" <malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote in message
>news:cqednTMKxv5UrdTfRVnysw@pipex.net...
>> B@ndit wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>> You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on seperate
>> Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his bedroom and
>> another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so. Having the VCR
>> looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non starter.
>
>All of which prompts me to ask what the maximum useful length of a SCART
>lead can be, please?
>
Depends on the cable used.
With proper cable which has "mini" coax for the video signals, you
should get at least 20 metres. Loss of signal and crosstalk is going to
become a problem at longer lengths.
--
Tim Mitchell
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 10:02:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

"Chas Gill" <Chas.Gill@gollum.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:D 2bfhk$ngc$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> "Malice" <malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote in message
> news:cqednTMKxv5UrdTfRVnysw@pipex.net...
>> B@ndit wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on seperate
>> Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his bedroom and
>> another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so. Having the VCR
>> looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non starter.

You would be able to do that (via UHF), but not vice versa (through Scarts).
>
> All of which prompts me to ask what the maximum useful length of a SCART
> lead can be, please?

The longer the lead the lower the quality due to dispersion. Probably 10m
would be a practcal limit. You would want a Scart with fully and separately
shielded signal cables. These are quite thick and rather more expensive.

>
> Thanks
>
> Chas
>
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 12:46:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:

>>>I've got a Sky Digital box and video recorder both connected to the TV via
>>>two separate scart cables.
>>
>> Wrong!
>>
>> See the FAQ.
>>
>
>I have this set up too. It is not wrong, it depends on what kit / needs
>you have.

It is indeed wrong on nearly every setup I've ever seen.


>In my case the Sky box is connected to the only RGB enabled Scart
>connector on my TV. My Sky box is set to output RGB on AV1, not
>Composite. The TV Scart #1 is configured to accept RGB. If my VCR is
>connected to the Sky AV2, the composite signal is passed through, but as
>the TV is expecting RGB from the Sky box, the VCR output is nowhere to
>be seen.

I've never seen a TV that can't find composite on a scart signal when
no RGB is present. Try just leaving the TV scart setting on "auto" and
it should have no trouble. That or buy a better TV.

The whole point of scart is that all this RGB/composite/WS/passthrough
switching is automatic.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 12:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:

>You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on
>seperate Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his
>bedroom and another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so.
>Having the VCR looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non
>starter.

No. That's what the TV/VCR button on the VCR remote is for.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
March 30, 2005 12:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <mkik41ds7mml5sqkpgtn2eiudl4evvu4e2@4ax.com>, Jomtien
<jomtien@the.beach> wrote:
> Malice wrote:


> I've never seen a TV that can't find composite on a scart signal when no
> RGB is present. Try just leaving the TV scart setting on "auto" and it
> should have no trouble. That or buy a better TV.

Phil: FYI Sony produced a YR1000 (and YR3000) YC to RGB converter, and on
the 1000, there was NO composite video - only composite syncs, and RGB on
the appropiate pins. I can't recall if the 3000 was the same, or
'conventional' in having the composite version present on the syncs.
In this special case, of course, there was no composite original - only
Y/C.

But from Sky and similar boxes, I agree, that there is usualy a composite
signal too - and hence the different horizontal position due to filtering
delays, which is compensated for in some TVs.

--
Phil Spiegelhalter: Phil@fillin.co.uk
==== Technical Training for Broadcasters =====
*RE CUE Mobile DV Multi-Camera Production and Non-Linear Editing*
March 30, 2005 8:12:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Jomtien said the following on 2005-03-30 07:46:
> Malice wrote:
>
>
>>You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on
>>seperate Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his
>>bedroom and another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so.
>>Having the VCR looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non
>>starter.
>
>
> No. That's what the TV/VCR button on the VCR remote is for.
>
Not all VCRs have one of them, mine certainly doesn't.

Also, in some cases, the looped through box will output the incoming
SCART signal on RF as well, which can be rather annoying in a in home
distriubution setup (My ITV Digital Pioneer does this) -in otherwords,
while watching a video on my VCR it is impossible to see the ITV
Digiboxes output!
March 31, 2005 2:37:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Jomtien wrote:
> Malice wrote:
>

>
>
> It is indeed wrong on nearly every setup I've ever seen.
But not wrong in all cases..... :-)
>
>
>
>>In my case the Sky box is connected to the only RGB enabled Scart
>>connector on my TV. My Sky box is set to output RGB on AV1, not
>>Composite. The TV Scart #1 is configured to accept RGB. If my VCR is
>>connected to the Sky AV2, the composite signal is passed through, but as
>>the TV is expecting RGB from the Sky box, the VCR output is nowhere to
>>be seen.
>
>
> I've never seen a TV that can't find composite on a scart signal when
> no RGB is present. Try just leaving the TV scart setting on "auto" and
> it should have no trouble. That or buy a better TV.
>
> The whole point of scart is that all this RGB/composite/WS/passthrough
> switching is automatic.
>
I have a Sony 50" LCD RPTV that cost the best part of £3K 6 years ago.
I am more than happy with my TV. The cost of the extra Scart to hook up
my Video is a lot cheaper than buying a "better TV".

Besides, as I noted in my original post, the Pace Digibox will output
both composite and RGB signals simultaneously if set to RGB out. To view
the RGB signal on the Scart #1 I have to take designate the input as
RGB. The input on Scart #1 is either composite or RGB and from
experience, when in RGB mode it appears to ignore a composite signal
even if the RGB signal is not present (Sky box off). But as I want both
Sky and the VCR to be on simultaneously, with the ability to watch a
video on the 50" TV with Sky piped around to the bedrooms, then as far
as I can tell with experimentation, I have no option but to either have
the VCR on RF or on a separate Scart to the Sony TV. Unless I want to
keep swapping the TV from RGB input to composite every time I change the
source material. A non starter.

Far from being "wrong", in my situation and with my needs, I think a
second scart is by far the superior solution!!
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 5:02:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In <DeOdnaktu7GLgdbfRVnyuQ@pipex.net>, Malice
<malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote:

>I have a Sony 50" LCD RPTV that cost the best part of £3K 6 years ago.
>I am more than happy with my TV. The cost of the extra Scart to hook up
>my Video is a lot cheaper than buying a "better TV".
>
>Besides, as I noted in my original post, the Pace Digibox will output
>both composite and RGB signals simultaneously if set to RGB out. To view
> the RGB signal on the Scart #1 I have to take designate the input as
>RGB.

That is extremely unusual if it is the case! For every other European
Sony TV I've seen in my life, Scart socket number 1 is capable of
composite or RGB or both; you can cycle through various input modes with
the [<-] button on the remote.

When the TV's display indicates "AV" mode for Scart one, this is a dual
composite or RGB, auto-detecting auto-switching handle-everything mode.
This is what you should use. You get RGB when your digibox is outputting
RGB), and composite when you press play on the VCR.

The only time this mode doesn't work is if you have a faulty/out of spec
RGB device which doesn't put the correct switching voltages on pin 16
(fast blanking) and/or pin 8 to tell the TV the signal is "RGB".

If you do have such a device (and the only ones that spring to mind are
Acorn BBC/Electron computers), then you can use the special "[...]" RGB
mode of the TV, to manually force the TV into RGB-only mode. In this
mode, *which you should never need to use!*, the TV will indeed not
display composite pictures.

>The input on Scart #1 is either composite or RGB and from
>experience, when in RGB mode it appears to ignore a composite signal
>even if the RGB signal is not present (Sky box off).

The "AV" input mode is both composite *and* RGB. All you should need to
do is leave your TV in that mode there is no need to manually switch.

HTH

--
Kill all Sky's red dots on TiVo! http://www.ljay.org.uk/tivoweb/
March 31, 2005 5:26:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Mike Henry wrote:
> In <DeOdnaktu7GLgdbfRVnyuQ@pipex.net>, Malice
> <malice@tembo-x-graphics.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> That is extremely unusual if it is the case! For every other European
> Sony TV I've seen in my life, Scart socket number 1 is capable of
> composite or RGB or both; you can cycle through various input modes with
> the [<-] button on the remote.
Quite. You cycle through the input modes. There is not an "automatic"
option for a "both" mode. I am reading the manual for the TV right now.
I have only two options: AV or RGB, there is not a "both" option. My
experience with my kit is that this is what I see (or not see if you see
what I mean!).


>
> When the TV's display indicates "AV" mode for Scart one, this is a dual
> composite or RGB, auto-detecting auto-switching handle-everything mode.
> This is what you should use. You get RGB when your digibox is outputting
> RGB), and composite when you press play on the VCR.
>
In my experience if Sky is on and transmitting RGB, I cannot get
composite on the Scart to be viewable unless I cycle through the input
modes for the Scart. The manual suggests that it is not auto detecting.
However, I will run some tests to see whether the auto detecting is an
undocumented feature and report back what I find.


> The only time this mode doesn't work is if you have a faulty/out of spec
> RGB device which doesn't put the correct switching voltages on pin 16
> (fast blanking) and/or pin 8 to tell the TV the signal is "RGB".

>
> If you do have such a device (and the only ones that spring to mind are
> Acorn BBC/Electron computers), then you can use the special "[...]" RGB
> mode of the TV, to manually force the TV into RGB-only mode. In this
> mode, *which you should never need to use!*, the TV will indeed not
> display composite pictures.
I use the [...] RGN mode to get RGB to show, otherwise it displays the
composite signal. Perhaps I have faulty switching on the digibox. Or
perhaps the TV is not working as I think it is!
>
>
>>The input on Scart #1 is either composite or RGB and from
>>experience, when in RGB mode it appears to ignore a composite signal
>>even if the RGB signal is not present (Sky box off).
>
>
> The "AV" input mode is both composite *and* RGB. All you should need to
> do is leave your TV in that mode there is no need to manually switch.
>
> HTH
>
Thanks for the input (non RGB mode!!) :-)
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:06:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <gsem419coho3asgmnvhjv4jat7dku6dl00@4ax.com>, Mike Henry wrote:
> When the TV's display indicates "AV" mode for Scart one, this is a dual
> composite or RGB, auto-detecting auto-switching handle-everything mode.
> This is what you should use. You get RGB when your digibox is outputting
> RGB), and composite when you press play on the VCR.
>
> The only time this mode doesn't work is if you have a faulty/out of spec
> RGB device which doesn't put the correct switching voltages on pin 16
> (fast blanking) and/or pin 8 to tell the TV the signal is "RGB".
>
Another one appears to be when you try to use an electronic RGB selector
box, as I have one of these that gives me double images on some sources. I
assume that what it is doing is presenting my TV with both RGB and
composite signals, and for some reason the TV is unable to show one and
exclude the other. I never did find out why, but it doesn't happen if I use
a mechanical switch box, so that's what I do.

Rod.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:25:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:

>Besides, as I noted in my original post, the Pace Digibox will output
>both composite and RGB signals simultaneously if set to RGB out. To view
> the RGB signal on the Scart #1 I have to take designate the input as
>RGB. The input on Scart #1 is either composite or RGB and from
>experience, when in RGB mode it appears to ignore a composite signal
>even if the RGB signal is not present (Sky box off).

As I said, perhaps you need a better TV.

Your workaround to solve the poor scart implementation on your TV is
most unsuitable for all those with better designed equipment, and they
make up nearly all digibox users.

For normal viewing the answer on all properly designed and set up
equipment is :

VCR scart socket = Digibox VCR scart socket.
Digibox TV scart socket = TV scart socket.
RF: Antenna = VCR = TV


>But as I want ...... the ability to watch a
>video on the 50" TV with Sky piped around to the bedrooms, then as far
>as I can tell with experimentation, I have no option but to either have
>the VCR on RF or on a separate Scart to the Sony TV.

You omitted to mention that you wanted to do this in your original
post.
In your circumstances this is indeed a solution but you do this at the
expense of proper scart switching. It remains pointless for those who
don't have TVs to feed in distant locations.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:25:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Mike Henry wrote:

>>I have a Sony 50" LCD RPTV
>>
>>Besides, as I noted in my original post, the Pace Digibox will output
>>both composite and RGB signals simultaneously if set to RGB out. To view
>> the RGB signal on the Scart #1 I have to take designate the input as
>>RGB.
>
>That is extremely unusual if it is the case! For every other European
>Sony TV I've seen in my life, Scart socket number 1 is capable of
>composite or RGB or both; you can cycle through various input modes with
>the [<-] button on the remote.

Indeed, but I doubt that the screen in question was originally
designed for European use. I suspect that it is a Japan/US model with
scarts and a PAL tuner bolted on. Many early plasmas were like this
also and the scart implementation was often abysmal.

I have a Sony CRT TV and of course it has proper scart switching and
full W/S and RGB implementation on both the main scarts. The third is
just composite though I think all three do S-Video as well. S-Video is
not automatic, of course.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
March 31, 2005 2:50:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Jomtien wrote:

>
> As I said, perhaps you need a better TV.
Seems somewhat of an overkill suggestion for the sake of a Scart lead!
You're not a Dixons/Curry's assistant by any chance are you? ;-)

>
> Your workaround to solve the poor scart implementation on your TV is
> most unsuitable for all those with better designed equipment, and they
> make up nearly all digibox users.
I disagree. Not unsuitable, only different.
>
> For normal viewing the answer on all properly designed and set up
> equipment is :
>
> VCR scart socket = Digibox VCR scart socket.
> Digibox TV scart socket = TV scart socket.
> RF: Antenna = VCR = TV
>
Is it not the case that in this set up and with "properly designed and
set up equipment" that if I am in the middle of watching a movie on Sky
and my VCR is on a timer to record terrestrial TV, that as the VCR
bursts into life it switches my TV over to the VCR composite signal on
the Scart and loses my Sky picture? If so what a bollox of an
implementation that would be; give me my improper set up any day!
>
>
>>But as I want ...... the ability to watch a
>>video on the 50" TV with Sky piped around to the bedrooms, then as far
>>as I can tell with experimentation, I have no option but to either have
>>the VCR on RF or on a separate Scart to the Sony TV.
>
>
> You omitted to mention that you wanted to do this in your original
> post.
> In your circumstances this is indeed a solution but you do this at the
> expense of proper scart switching. It remains pointless for those who
> don't have TVs to feed in distant locations.
>
Unless they enjoy Sky being interrupted when a VCR timer is activated
and they have to leap to find the VCR handset with the TV/VCR button? ;-)

I think we agree to differ.
March 31, 2005 6:39:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <VA.0000098a.00250c40@escapetime.nospam.plus.com>, Roderick
Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.nospam.plus.com> wrote:
> In article <gsem419coho3asgmnvhjv4jat7dku6dl00@4ax.com>, Mike Henry
> wrote:
snipped earlier quotes
> >
> Another one appears to be when you try to use an electronic RGB selector
> box, as I have one of these that gives me double images on some
> sources. I assume that what it is doing is presenting my TV with both
> RGB and composite signals, and for some reason the TV is unable to show
> one and exclude the other. I never did find out why, but it doesn't
> happen if I use a mechanical switch box, so that's what I do.

> Rod.

Phil: Perhaps the electonic switch is not passing on the 'fast blanking'
signal which originated with cutting teletext RGB characters into the
(composite) video background (in 'mixed' mode), but when in steady state
causes only rgb to be displayed?

--
Phil Spiegelhalter: Phil@fillin.co.uk
==== Technical Training for Broadcasters =====
*RE CUE Mobile DV Multi-Camera Production and Non-Linear Editing*
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 7:25:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Thus spaketh Malice:
> Jomtien wrote:
>
>>
>> As I said, perhaps you need a better TV.
> Seems somewhat of an overkill suggestion for the sake of a Scart lead!
> You're not a Dixons/Curry's assistant by any chance are you? ;-)
>
>>
>> Your workaround to solve the poor scart implementation on your TV is
>> most unsuitable for all those with better designed equipment, and
>> they make up nearly all digibox users.
> I disagree. Not unsuitable, only different.
>>
>> For normal viewing the answer on all properly designed and set up
>> equipment is :
>>
>> VCR scart socket = Digibox VCR scart socket.
>> Digibox TV scart socket = TV scart socket.
>> RF: Antenna = VCR = TV
>>
> Is it not the case that in this set up and with "properly designed and
> set up equipment" that if I am in the middle of watching a movie on
> Sky and my VCR is on a timer to record terrestrial TV, that as the VCR
> bursts into life it switches my TV over to the VCR composite signal on
> the Scart and loses my Sky picture? If so what a bollox of an
> implementation that would be; give me my improper set up any day!
>>
>>
>>> But as I want ...... the ability to watch a
>>> video on the 50" TV with Sky piped around to the bedrooms, then as
>>> far as I can tell with experimentation, I have no option but to
>>> either have the VCR on RF or on a separate Scart to the Sony TV.
>>
>>
>> You omitted to mention that you wanted to do this in your original
>> post.
>> In your circumstances this is indeed a solution but you do this at
>> the expense of proper scart switching. It remains pointless for
>> those who don't have TVs to feed in distant locations.
>>
> Unless they enjoy Sky being interrupted when a VCR timer is activated
> and they have to leap to find the VCR handset with the TV/VCR button?
> ;-)
> I think we agree to differ.

When I set VCR up for timer record, it doesn't take over the picture, it just
records whatever channel it is set to do so, and lets me continue to watch
satellite via my Sky box.
March 31, 2005 7:36:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

>
>
> When I set VCR up for timer record, it doesn't take over the picture, it just
> records whatever channel it is set to do so, and lets me continue to watch
> satellite via my Sky box.
>
>
Before I got my latest TV with multiple Scarts, I had to snip the pin 8
connector (?) to prevent my VCR from switching the TV when either
entering play or record mode.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 8:18:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:02:54 +0100, Mike Henry
<{$usenet-spamdump$}@mrtickle.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>That is extremely unusual if it is the case! For every other European
>Sony TV I've seen in my life, Scart socket number 1 is capable of
>composite or RGB or both; you can cycle through various input modes with
>the [<-] button on the remote.
>
>When the TV's display indicates "AV" mode for Scart one, this is a dual
>composite or RGB, auto-detecting auto-switching handle-everything mode.
>This is what you should use. You get RGB when your digibox is outputting
>RGB), and composite when you press play on the VCR.
>
>The only time this mode doesn't work is if you have a faulty/out of spec
>RGB device which doesn't put the correct switching voltages on pin 16
>(fast blanking) and/or pin 8 to tell the TV the signal is "RGB".
>
>If you do have such a device (and the only ones that spring to mind are
>Acorn BBC/Electron computers), then you can use the special "[...]" RGB
>mode of the TV, to manually force the TV into RGB-only mode. In this
>mode, *which you should never need to use!*, the TV will indeed not
>display composite pictures.
>

I need to force RGB mode for my Xbox on my Sony 8 year old 46" RPTV. At least
the picture is better if I do.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:41:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <4d544df8ffPhil@fillin.co.uk>, Phil wrote:
> > Another one appears to be when you try to use an electronic RGB selector
> > box, as I have one of these that gives me double images on some
> > sources. I assume that what it is doing is presenting my TV with both
> > RGB and composite signals, and for some reason the TV is unable to show
> > one and exclude the other. I never did find out why, but it doesn't
> > happen if I use a mechanical switch box, so that's what I do.
>
> > Rod.
>
> Phil: Perhaps the electonic switch is not passing on the 'fast blanking'
> signal which originated with cutting teletext RGB characters into the
> (composite) video background (in 'mixed' mode), but when in steady state
> causes only rgb to be displayed?
>
Perhaps you're right. I may investigate this possibility when I have more
time, though in the meantime I have a system that works, even if it does mean
I sometimes have to get up out of my comfy chair to change sources.

Rod.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:41:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <W8ednempgYxsl9HfRVnyuw@pipex.net>, Malice wrote:
> > When I set VCR up for timer record, it doesn't take over the picture, it just
> > records whatever channel it is set to do so, and lets me continue to watch
> > satellite via my Sky box.
> >
> >
> Before I got my latest TV with multiple Scarts, I had to snip the pin 8
> connector (?) to prevent my VCR from switching the TV when either
> entering play or record mode.
>
Wouldn't it be nice if domestic equipment worked the same way as professional
equipment, and simply did what it said on the controls? Most of the problems
people have with domestic gear seem to be to do with the fact that it tries to do
all sorts of clever stuff for you, and often gets it wrong.

In the world of professional audio and video, a receiver is a receiver, a recorder
is a recorder, a monitor is a monitor, and so on, and there are agreed standards
for the signals that go between them. Most domestic audio/video problems aren't
really audio/video problems at all, but control problems, lack of standardisation
problems, or lack of proper information problems.

Rod.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:26:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:

>> Your workaround to solve the poor scart implementation on your TV is
>> most unsuitable for all those with better designed equipment, and they
>> make up nearly all digibox users.
>I disagree. Not unsuitable, only different.

The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages for anyone who isn't
trying to feed a distant TV, I can assure you.


>Is it not the case that in this set up and with "properly designed and
>set up equipment" that if I am in the middle of watching a movie on Sky
>and my VCR is on a timer to record terrestrial TV, that as the VCR
>bursts into life it switches my TV over to the VCR composite signal on
>the Scart and loses my Sky picture?

It is not the case. When coming out of standby for timed events a VCR
will not put scart pin 8 high, unless the VCR also is badly designed.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:

>Before I got my latest TV with multiple Scarts, I had to snip the pin 8
>connector (?) to prevent my VCR from switching the TV when either
>entering play or record mode.

You don't seem to have much success with scarts. :-(

Decent VCRs would not require this.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:26:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Roderick Stewart wrote:

>Wouldn't it be nice if domestic equipment worked the same way as professional
>equipment, and simply did what it said on the controls? Most of the problems
>people have with domestic gear seem to be to do with the fact that it tries to do
>all sorts of clever stuff for you, and often gets it wrong.

99% of the time scart switching works just fine. I install systems
with combinations of TV/Digibox/ VCR and/or DVDR all the time and only
very, very rarely is there any sort of hitch with scart control.

The important thing is to know how to connect it all. Many people
(this includes TV and Sky installers) connect them up wrongly.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
April 1, 2005 2:55:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Malice wrote:
>> When I set VCR up for timer record, it doesn't take over the
>> picture, it just records whatever channel it is set to do so, and
>> lets me continue to watch satellite via my Sky box.
>>
>>
> Before I got my latest TV with multiple Scarts, I had to snip the pin
> 8 connector (?) to prevent my VCR from switching the TV when either
> entering play or record mode.

Your VCR must be faulty, it should only switch the TV when in playback
*not* when it is recording.
April 1, 2005 3:51:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Jomtien wrote:
> Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>
>>Wouldn't it be nice if domestic equipment worked the same way as professional
>>equipment, and simply did what it said on the controls? Most of the problems
>>people have with domestic gear seem to be to do with the fact that it tries to do
>>all sorts of clever stuff for you, and often gets it wrong.
>
>
> 99% of the time scart switching works just fine. I install systems
> with combinations of TV/Digibox/ VCR and/or DVDR all the time and only
> very, very rarely is there any sort of hitch with scart control.
>
> The important thing is to know how to connect it all. Many people
> (this includes TV and Sky installers) connect them up wrongly.
>
And that's why I would be reluctant to let any installer have a go at
installing Sky plus and connecting it properly with my dual/split system
into the lounge where I have a choice of two positions for the TV and
the routed distribution back into the house.

I may not be a "qualified" Sky/TV technician/installer/electrician, but
being a professionally qualified engineer, I think I have a better basic
grasp of "circuits" and connection options than most people. I shudder
at the thought of letting a time pressed oik have a rummage in my
distribution system!
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 9:05:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

> .... and notwithstanding the fact that my TV appears to be able to route
> any input to the output on its VCR Scart. So although TV Scart #1 is
> set to accept and show RGB from the Digibox, the composite from the Sky
> box (it outputs both RGB and composite on AV1 when in "RGB" mode) is
> looped through the TV set back to the VCR Scart, so recording is "easy".
>
> You reminded me that he other advantage of having Sky and VCR on
> seperate Scarts is that if #1 kid is wanting to pipe a video to his
> bedroom and another wants to watch Sky in the lounge, they can do so.
> Having the VCR looped through Sky for "switiching to vcr mode" is a non
> starter.

This is an issue for me too, as our VCR and Sky box are networked around the
house. I use Pyramid remote control extenders, and pressing Play on the VCR
from upstairs was sending a cry of annoyance up from the lounge as the
downstairs TV started to show an unwanted video recording!

I have the Sky box TV Scart feeding the DVD RGB in and then DVD RGB out to
TV Scart 1 - hence avoiding having to use a Scart switcher.
VCR Scart out to TV Scart 2
Sky box VCR Scart to VCR Scart in.

Of course behind the main TV is a complete rats nest, that causes SWMBO to
avoid vacuuming there!
April 2, 2005 1:47:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

Adrian wrote:
> Malice wrote:
>
>>>When I set VCR up for timer record, it doesn't take over the
>>>picture, it just records whatever channel it is set to do so, and
>>>lets me continue to watch satellite via my Sky box.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Before I got my latest TV with multiple Scarts, I had to snip the pin
>>8 connector (?) to prevent my VCR from switching the TV when either
>>entering play or record mode.
>
>
> Your VCR must be faulty, it should only switch the TV when in playback
> *not* when it is recording.
>
>
Or old and poorly designed?
April 23, 2005 8:07:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

>Most of the problems
> people have with domestic gear seem to be to do with the fact that it
tries to do
> all sorts of clever stuff for you, and often gets it wrong.


Hear hear!
Some time ago I went on a fruitless shopping exhibition looking for a
camcorder that DIDN'T have autofocus or powered zoom as they are features I
never use, much preferring to "pull" these manually .


--
Graham.



%Profound_observation%
April 23, 2005 8:35:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

> > All of which prompts me to ask what the maximum useful length of a SCART
> > lead can be, please?
>
> The longer the lead the lower the quality due to dispersion. Probably 10m
> would be a practcal limit. You would want a Scart with fully and
separately
> shielded signal cables. These are quite thick and rather more expensive.


Fully and separately shielded, agreed.

But I trust you don't mean fully wired also, as this would result in an
unnecessarily large cable bundle given that SCART is bi-directional and half
the cables will be carrying signals in the wrong direction.


--
Graham.



%Profound_observation%
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 3:09:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

"Graham" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:426a64fb$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> >Most of the problems
> > people have with domestic gear seem to be to do with the fact that
it
> tries to do
> > all sorts of clever stuff for you, and often gets it wrong.
>
>
> Hear hear!
> Some time ago I went on a fruitless shopping exhibition looking for a
> camcorder that DIDN'T have autofocus or powered zoom as they are
features I
> never use, much preferring to "pull" these manually .
>
>
> --
> Graham.
>
>
>
> %Profound_observation%
>
>
If anyone is looking for cheap Scart cables, DON'T buy from Asda, they
are made by the company well known for poor quality and poor value for
money, Philips, and they aren't even fully wired. At least every other
shop that sells Scart cables only sells fully wired ones.
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 8:48:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv,uk.media.tv.sky,uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.tech.tv.sky (More info?)

In article <3d19hqF6oo8raU1@individual.net>,
Wolseley 6-80 <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> "Graham" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:426a64fb$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> >
> > > Most of the problems people have with domestic gear seem to be to do
> > > with the fact that it tries to do all sorts of clever stuff for you,
> > > and often gets it wrong.
> >
> >
> > Hear hear!
> > Some time ago I went on a fruitless shopping exhibition looking for a
> > camcorder that DIDN'T have autofocus or powered zoom as they are
> > features I never use, much preferring to "pull" these manually .
> >
> >
> If anyone is looking for cheap SCART cables, DON'T buy from Asda, they
> are made by the company well known for poor quality and poor value for
> money, Philips, and they aren't even fully wired. At least every other
> shop that sells SCART cables only sells fully wired ones.

The last few times I've wanted SCART cables I've bought them from Screwfix
direct, they're cheap and (the ribbon ones at least) look well made.

--
Hey, Mr. Peterson, there's a cold one waiting for you.
I know, and if she calls, I'm not here.

___________________________________________
|\ /| ark Fraser /mfraser@ukgateway.net Mobile: 07977820478
| \/ | Somerset /www.mfraz.freeserve.co.uk ICQ:19835705
| |__________/Acorn SA RISC PC You know what the sig means!
!