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Will this plat WoW?

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January 6, 2009 8:23:53 PM

Anyone know if the E machines desktop EL1641-02w will play World of warcraft?

Intel celeron dual core E1400
3GB memory, 320 gb hard drive. It is sold at wal-mart.

Can I slap a graphics card in there and play WoW?

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January 6, 2009 8:33:26 PM

As long as it has an available PCI-E slot to use, there's no reason at all that thing won't play WoW with a discrete graphics card. Although, I definitely wouldn't try it with the integrated graphics :) 

What video card are you thinking of using?
January 6, 2009 8:48:03 PM

Do not buy an E-Machines. That is my advice. Find a small computer shop and see if they could build you something in a similar price range.

Here's Anandtech's article on entry level and budget PC's:

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3486

Both the AMD and Intel builds in the $538 category are much better than the E-Machines Celeron. The AMD has integrated ATI 780G graphics and the Intel has integrated Nvidia Geforce 7100. The AMD has better graphics, but Intel has a better entry level processor. When it comes to graphics, Intel's lousy, which is why the Intel entry level build has Nvidia integrated graphics instead.

How much is that E-Machines? Add to the cost a budget $50-75 video card (that's about all the power supply in an E-Machines of that class can handle). You'd also have to pay labor to install the card if you don't know how.

Really, look for a small computer shop and take printouts of the AMD and Intel builds with you and see what they can build in your price range. If you can go slightly higher to the $800 range, you can get a PC built in the same range as mine. I have virtually the same (or slightly better) than the article's AMD budget build (my year old last generation graphics card is equivalent to a 4850).

When I had to get the 3870x2 repaired in my system, I switched to the integrated HD 3200 780G graphics and it played Lord of the Rings: Mines of Moria at medium/high settings. A 780G would play WoW without any issues (and the Nvidia wouldn't be far behind if you went with the Intel build), so I definitely recommend avoiding the E-Machines Celeron and getting a custom build.

If you don't trust a computer shop, try to find a store like Fry's that can build it for you. Fry's is only in California, Arizona and Texas, but other big box PC and electronics stores might do the same if they also sell components like motherboards and CPU's. There are also reputable online custom builders, but since I build my own and buy components from Newegg or Fry's, I'm not up to speed on the online build recommendations.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Edited to add that I just checked out that E-Machines at Walmart online where it's $498. That definitely makes it a bad idea. Both the $538 entry level builds have it outclassed, and the $831 budget builds would allow you to be a bit more future proof for games and applications over the next 2-3 years.
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January 6, 2009 8:51:22 PM

Its $398 with 19" widescreen. I know its not the best, but just want to play WoW. But dont want to spend to much. I have put graphics cards in but just dont know if I want to try to build just yet.
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January 6, 2009 8:53:56 PM

That e-Machines he's looking at is $498 with a 19" LCD monitor. Fairly inexpensive considering.

However, jaywarren, if you can afford it, I'd suggest not buying an e-Machines. They are a very budget oriented manufacturer. They're known for cheap, not quality. It'll check email, browse the internet, but isn't something I'd use for gaming.

Anything with a Celeron processor is a bad idea for gaming, plain and simple.

It is indeed possible to build a computer for not much more money, that'll annihilate that one you're looking at. Especially if you can, or know someone who can build it for you.

Otherwise, find a local computer shop and see how cheap they can build you something to play WoW with. You don't need a screaming machine to play WoW. Though if you want to play other more modern games, you may need better. But if all you care about is WoW, it won't take to much.

Biggest suggestion: Discrete Graphics (Not integrated)
January 6, 2009 9:12:56 PM

jaywarren said:
Its $398 with 19" widescreen. I know its not the best, but just want to play WoW. But dont want to spend to much. I have put graphics cards in but just dont know if I want to try to build just yet.


Then I'd consider the following if you don't want to go over $400:

Phenom X3 8400 with HD3200 graphics (it's a 780G board):


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Only $369, and just as my integrated graphics played Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria at medium/high settings, it should play WoW until you get a add in card. With OEM PC's skimping on the power supplies, I don't recommend anything higher than a 4830, but that will be fine for gaming at up to 22" LCD resolutions.

I don't think it comes with a monitor, but you can pick up the following for around a hundred:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You can check out Newegg's OEM Intel builds, but most would have Intel integrated graphics and might have similarly bad for entry level gaming Celerons. Don't go with anything below an E7200 or E7300 for an Intel CPU.

If you insist on the E-Machines, get a 4650 or 4830 right away and don't try Wrath of the Liche King with Intel integrated graphics.
January 6, 2009 9:36:03 PM

What would you go with if you had $550?
January 6, 2009 9:42:43 PM

I see you gave up on building your own.

I think you should just go with this dell and drop in either a radeon 4650 or a geforce 9600gt.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.asp...

I know it only has a 300 watt powersupply but my roommate is running a 4650 in his 3 year old gateway no problem.
January 6, 2009 10:27:06 PM

jerreece said:

Anything with a Celeron processor is a bad idea for gaming, plain and simple.


This is true, but keep in mind that WoW is nearly a 4 year old game. At this time, Athlon 64 were top of the line! I think (for WoW), even that celeron should be fine. Put a $40-$50 8500GT and you should be able to play the game smoothly at medium settings.
January 6, 2009 10:44:09 PM

No I think I still want to build one just not yet. I want to read up on it and buy 1 peace at a time.

I have 5 people in the house that use computers so I will need more then one.
I would just like to get something to play WoW for now. I have a addiction to the game and if I stop playing I might be in danger of getting a life.
January 6, 2009 10:45:54 PM

jaywarren said:
What would you go with if you had $550?


You could get the Acer AMD triple core 8750 from Newegg or the Dell E7300 nsimo86 recommended and add a 4650.

However, I don't think either comes with a monitor. If you held off on the 4650, you could get the Acer and buy the monitor I recommended, but the Dell has Intel integrated graphics and needs an add in card.

I know the E-Machines with the monitor is appealing, but it's a bad deal because it has the worst dual core CPU possible for even light gaming. It has the worst integrated graphics.

I'd go with the most recent AMD or Nvidia integrated graphics at a minimum. That way you can afford the monitor. Out of the Acer, Dell or E-Machines, the Acer 8750 has the most future proofing, but in games it's just behind the E7300 in framerates (but not far behind):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e...

Half Life 2:

E7300: 142.22 fps

8750: 129.84 fps

World in Conflict:

E7300: 66 fps

8750: 58 fps

Crysis:

E7300: 25.26 fps

8750: 22.88

Anandtech recommends the 8750 for an $800 AMD build and it's available in the Acer at a very good price. $369 plus $105 for the 19" monitor comes to $474 plus shipping.

Though you'd do best with a graphics card later, I doubt that Wrath of the Liche King's performance is worse than Mines of Moria and it is playable on an HD3200 780G board integrated graphics. When I got my graphics card back in the system, I only went to high/very high settings and I was actually impressed how well MoM looked at medium/high with the IGP.

So, the big question is does your $550 budget have to include a monitor? If it does, then get the Acer and the $105 monitor I linked to, or get the Dell and buy a 4650 right away, and look for a used monitor locally. You can pick up used monitors very cheaply at times, especially if you tolerate a 17" CRT until you can afford better.

Your choice, but I'm partial to the 8750. As more titles use more cores, it will catch up to the E7300 at stock and you won't be overclocking any of your OEM choices, so headroom is not an issue.
January 7, 2009 12:13:58 AM

doomsdaydave11 said:
This is true, but keep in mind that WoW is nearly a 4 year old game. At this time, Athlon 64 were top of the line! I think (for WoW), even that celeron should be fine. Put a $40-$50 8500GT and you should be able to play the game smoothly at medium settings.

well wow has gotten better with expansion packs ever so slightly and It is just your taste personally I hate playing wow on low or even medium setting; it ticks me off.
January 7, 2009 12:33:12 AM

the acer system only has a phenom x3 8400 not a 8750.
a b à CPUs
January 7, 2009 12:44:50 AM

@OP: Have you considered DIY build?
January 7, 2009 1:11:12 AM

Ok nsimo, I will do it. I will build one! I have gone back and forth all day. But I guess the build is the right way to go. Anyone of you guys live in central Wisconsin if I get stuck?
January 7, 2009 1:37:25 AM

if you're building your own, do a check list of all the parts you'll need first.
And think about if you'll want to upgrade this PC eventually this might change some of the parts you'll want to buy.

Good luck and you'll see it's very easy...
January 7, 2009 1:57:13 AM

I'm not pushing you to do it, but honestly since you are just playing WoW that dell system with a radeon 4650 is a very good option. Plus you get the warranty. If I were you I'd probably just go that route.
January 7, 2009 2:22:29 AM

well if you have to add a grphics card you would have had to know for sure it has a free port for it and also make sure the power supply could handle the graphics card cause if not then the power supply could have popped and possibly take out your new PC. with DIY builds you know each and every part that is going in the computer and do not have to deal with poor tech support. If you never built a system then see if anyone you know is good with computers and let them build it for you
January 7, 2009 3:47:29 AM

it does have free port, the PSU is fine for a 4650, and he hasnt built one before and doesnt know anyone who has. Just looking for an inexpensive machine to play WoW.
January 7, 2009 5:39:28 AM

nsimo86 said:
the acer system only has a phenom x3 8400 not a 8750.


You're right. My mistake. I was using the drop down menu and looking at different OEM systems with Toliman X3's at Newegg. This Acer has an x3 8650 with the 780G, but it's $549.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I had 8750 in my head but provided the wrong link. I had meant to provide the 8650. It's close enough to the 8750 that his experience would have been the same.

Still, if he was going to buy OEM and spend the same amount as that dual core Celeron, the 8400 is a better deal, especially considering the onboard graphics.

I'm glad he'll try building his own. It's easier than most people think. Anyone who can insert a graphics card and set it up should be able to build their own.

The E7300 is incrementally better in games right now at stock, but the X3 8750 is good too. Anandtech was spot on in their sub $1,000 PC article.

If I were the OP, I'd wait a bit and see how Phenom II prices affect Agena's, and how Intel responds.

I am so tempted to switch the 8750 out for a Phenom II 920 when income tax time comes, as Gigabyte has a bios for my board that supports Phenom II. I'll wait to see independent benchies first though, it might not be 20% improvement as reported.

nsimo86 said:
I'm not pushing you to do it, but honestly since you are just playing WoW that dell system with a radeon 4650 is a very good option. Plus you get the warranty. If I were you I'd probably just go that route.


The E7300's a good CPU, but he'll need to factor in a monitor in addition to the 4650. My point was with an ATI HD3200, he could wait on the discrete GPU until he can afford it and put the difference into a $105 19" LCD.

The worst thing about AMD buying ATI in my opinion was the end of ATI chipsets and integrated graphics for Intel motherboards.
January 7, 2009 11:53:42 AM

Ok next question. When getting case is the one you listed easy to work with? What is the best case for a newbe? Size is no bid deal, just want easy to use and fit? Also the motherboard you recommended to me. Do you know if the instructions are as easy to use as any other board? I will play a few more $$ to if there is a begging friendlier parts.
January 7, 2009 12:02:18 PM

Mobos are just a big jigsaw puzzle, if you take your time and have the layout in the manual in front of you then you cant go wrong.
January 7, 2009 1:12:24 PM

Usually you should get "how to install..." sheet or guide with almost each part you're going to buy... Some of those guide/sheet are very easy to follow and most have pictures.

And usually the only tool you'll need is a screwdriver.
January 7, 2009 5:40:33 PM

jaywarren said:
Ok next question. When getting case is the one you listed easy to work with? What is the best case for a newbe? Size is no bid deal, just want easy to use and fit? Also the motherboard you recommended to me. Do you know if the instructions are as easy to use as any other board? I will play a few more $$ to if there is a begging friendlier parts.


yes the antec 300 is a well built case that alot of people use. That mobo is made by gigabyte right? If so you shouldnt have a problem as they are a top brand.

But still the total price of that system i laid out is about the same as going with the dell except you'd be using a hd 4650 instead of a 4850 which i dont think would have much impact in a old game like WoW. If you're feeling apprehensive about building your own, I'd just get the dell.
January 7, 2009 5:43:23 PM

yipsl said:
You're right. My mistake. I was using the drop down menu and looking at different OEM systems with Toliman X3's at Newegg. This Acer has an x3 8650 with the 780G, but it's $549.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I had 8750 in my head but provided the wrong link. I had meant to provide the 8650. It's close enough to the 8750 that his experience would have been the same.

Still, if he was going to buy OEM and spend the same amount as that dual core Celeron, the 8400 is a better deal, especially considering the onboard graphics.

I'm glad he'll try building his own. It's easier than most people think. Anyone who can insert a graphics card and set it up should be able to build their own.

The E7300 is incrementally better in games right now at stock, but the X3 8750 is good too. Anandtech was spot on in their sub $1,000 PC article.

If I were the OP, I'd wait a bit and see how Phenom II prices affect Agena's, and how Intel responds.

I am so tempted to switch the 8750 out for a Phenom II 920 when income tax time comes, as Gigabyte has a bios for my board that supports Phenom II. I'll wait to see independent benchies first though, it might not be 20% improvement as reported.



The E7300's a good CPU, but he'll need to factor in a monitor in addition to the 4650. My point was with an ATI HD3200, he could wait on the discrete GPU until he can afford it and put the difference into a $105 19" LCD.

The worst thing about AMD buying ATI in my opinion was the end of ATI chipsets and integrated graphics for Intel motherboards.


The acer with integrated graphics and no monitor is $550 compared with the dell that is only $450, add a hd 4650 to that you are at the same price as the acer with much better performance. Besides he is replacing a broken pc that had a monitor so that shouldn't be an issue as he can reuse the old one.
January 7, 2009 7:40:26 PM

OP should be able to reuse the old PC case too. Just rip out all the old components and put yours in. This is not optimal, but will save you ~$50 that you could then put into a better GPU or mobo. You may also be able to reuse the power supply from the old pc which would save another $50-$100.

You should also check out the old ram and see if it can work with your new build. Anything to save a few bucks!
January 7, 2009 9:25:05 PM

we've been over all this already. the only thing he could reuse is his optical drive.
January 7, 2009 9:30:03 PM

pr2thej said:
Mobos are just a big jigsaw puzzle, if you take your time and have the layout in the manual in front of you then you cant go wrong.

The manual for the motherboard is immensely helpful for a newbie to computers. The connections are extremely confusing on the motherboard. But you are right, if you have the time and patience to figure it out, anyone who is fairly intelligent can figure it out.
January 7, 2009 10:13:18 PM

E-machines are about the biggest POS you can buy. Dont waste your money. They have loads of problems as it is and do not have any room for expansion short of a new PSU and good luck getting the MB to take new hardware.

Yes that machine will play WOW. An old 9800 will run WOW for graphics. Any 7600 or above card is what you want. AGP or PCIE does not matter as the game barely has any graphics to speak of. Its an online cartoon pretty much.
January 8, 2009 12:07:51 AM

If you want your own machine, build it.
Go to newegg.com
Get you someone who has experience with building computers, get msn messengerr or anyother messenger, or you can even have them set you up a "wish list" on newegg. Simple, I could easily make you a computer online and have you check it out, if you like the budget then buy it piece by piece. You can easily build a computer for $550. Newegg is top of the line. Big discounts and will never fail you. If you want to see what a computer would look like at that price range, give me an email. w.b.morrison2007@gmail.com
January 8, 2009 1:30:20 AM

nsimo86 said:
Besides he is replacing a broken pc that had a monitor so that shouldn't be an issue as he can reuse the old one.


I didn't know that. Was that in the old thread? The one thing I do recommend a 780G or 790GX for is that if the GPU fails and has to be RMA's (happened to me) you can still game with the IGP. That's not possible on the Dell. That was my only caveat. Otherwise, the E7300 is quite good.

You don't work for Dell do you? :na:  Normally I recommend a Dell only if the alternatives are E-Machines or Dell. A friend bought a Dell for $2000 awith one of the early Conroes and an 8600GT. He could never get their tech support, so he called me for help instead.

Sounds like he's going to give building a new PC a try. There's always a first time, and one has to risk screwing things up, but most of the time it's not that bad.

WoW might be an old game, but WotLK ups things a bit just as MoM does LOTRO.
January 8, 2009 1:44:55 AM

yipsl said:
I didn't know that. Was that in the old thread? The one thing I do recommend a 780G or 790GX for is that if the GPU fails and has to be RMA's (happened to me) you can still game with the IGP. That's not possible on the Dell. That was my only caveat. Otherwise, the E7300 is quite good.

You don't work for Dell do you? :na:  Normally I recommend a Dell only if the alternatives are E-Machines or Dell. A friend bought a Dell for $2000 awith one of the early Conroes and an 8600GT. He could never get their tech support, so he called me for help instead.

Sounds like he's going to give building a new PC a try. There's always a first time, and one has to risk screwing things up, but most of the time it's not that bad.

WoW might be an old game, but WotLK ups things a bit just as MoM does LOTRO.


I am only recommending it because of the price and as you can see in his post below, he is going to need multiple PC's and the dell with a HD 4650 would bridge him over nicely until he can build his own. Plus I'm pretty sure that the integrated intel graphics can play WoW at a low setting as it only requires a Geforce2 level card to run.


jaywarren said:
No I think I still want to build one just not yet. I want to read up on it and buy 1 peace at a time.

I have 5 people in the house that use computers so I will need more then one.
I would just like to get something to play WoW for now. I have a addiction to the game and if I stop playing I might be in danger of getting a life.

January 8, 2009 2:05:08 AM

Like I said, the Dell's better than the E-Machines, but the 8650 in the Acer's not far behind the E7300 (it's really the 8750 that's competitive). No one's going to overclock an OEM, so I'd recommend the Acer for future proofing, even if he builds later and uses the OEM as a second PC.

I was ribbing with the Dell employee comment, looks like you took it too seriously. My experience with friends and coworker's Dell's are not very positive. Dell's good in a business workstation environment but the Dell's people have bought for home desktops generally aren't that great compared to custom builds at Fry's, small PC shops or self builds.

Low res graphics in any game is lame. A discrete GPU is best. That Intel IGP might play WoW at low res, but would that include WotLK? My 780G can play Oblivion at low res, but why would I even want to?

It did play LOTRO at medium/high mixed settings long enough for me to appreciate it. No one should put up with an IGP for long, but if one has to rely upon one, I'd choose the OEM or the motherboard with the best as a backup.

Too bad ATI can't make chipsets for Intel. An E7300 with a 780g would be nice for many people compared to the dreck that Intel puts out for an IGP.

Sorry if you got upset, my apologies for ribbing you.
January 8, 2009 3:23:17 AM

No offense taken, its just that i've been helping the OP out since his first thread and alot of people are just joining in late with suggestions and not knowing the whole background.

I definitely think a homebuild or custom build is the way to go but he needs something now. As much as I like AMD (all of my desktop procs have been AMDs) I just cannot see how you are justifying that acer over the dell. It may have a slightly better IGP but that doesnt justify paying $100 more than the dell.

Bottom line is for the same $550 the dell plus a radeon 4650 is better than the acer with only a IGP.
January 8, 2009 4:03:20 AM

nsimo86 said:
No offense taken, its just that i've been helping the OP out since his first thread and alot of people are just joining in late with suggestions and not knowing the whole background.

I definitely think a homebuild or custom build is the way to go but he needs something now. As much as I like AMD (all of my desktop procs have been AMDs) I just cannot see how you are justifying that acer over the dell. It may have a slightly better IGP but that doesnt justify paying $100 more than the dell.

Bottom line is for the same $550 the dell plus a radeon 4650 is better than the acer with only a IGP.



I'm justifying it mainly on futureproofing. A triple core does better than a similarly priced Intel duo in apps that use more cores. Games are starting to use more cores and that should only make things better in the future.

Perhaps I'm just biased from my experience with Dell plus Intel IGP's? If that Dell had an Nvidia IGP, I'd recommend it because the E7300 is a good budget processor right now.
January 8, 2009 4:19:36 AM

but you are totally forgetting about adding in the radeon 4650 and i find your argument that a triple core is futureproofing to be unconvincing. Besides you continually forget that he needs it mainly to play WoW and unless they make a totally new game engine for it, more cpu cores are not needed.
January 8, 2009 7:48:27 AM

Haven't games been patched before to support more cores? The patch prior to Mines of Moria for LOTRO practically changed the nature of the game's combat system. The new WoW expansion has destructible buildings, and that's a similar change. MMO's aren't as static as FPS.

I agree that he'd need a new GPU down the line and you agree that he'd need a new build. It's up to the OP. He might bypass either OEM choice and do well on his first build. That's why I provided the Anandtech article as recommendations to consider. The Dell's price does make it attractive. I just don't trust Dell's declining quality.

Admittedly, I don't know Acer beyond monitors, but there I've been impressed. I'm getting their 20.5" 1920 x 1080 LCD with an LC Blu-Ray drive when the income tax return arrives.
January 8, 2009 2:23:01 PM

It looks like that Dell is no longer there? The link gives me a different computer?
January 8, 2009 4:26:38 PM

I've played WoW on a geforce 5500, and only 768mb of ram.
If your going nvidia way, 8800 gt is simple, recommend the 9800series though, still cheap to buy.
If your going ATI, dude i run a hd 3870 on farcry 2 noproblem, cod4 med/high settings, no problem. Your worried about getting a 4650.. you can still go cheaper. OCZ memory works great aswell if your wanting cheap memory. GKillz and OCZ are memory Recommendations for me.

If you want building help hit me up on my email Jaywarren or sit here and keep trying to go dell or build a computer. Have you tried calling in to dell to have them build you a computer, you tell them what your looking for and they will build it and ship it...

w.b.morrison2007@gmail.com

January 8, 2009 5:24:54 PM

jaywarren said:
It looks like that Dell is no longer there? The link gives me a different computer?



Looks like you missed out, that was such a great deal. Now that system went from 450 to 699 but you get a 19" monitor with it. The system they have now only has a E5200 and 3gb Ram, which is ok but stinks compared to the original deal for a E7300 and 4gb ram. Now it looks like you'll have to build your own to get similar performance for the price.

Let me know if you need help with it. In the meantime i'll see if i can find another oem build that will suit you.
January 8, 2009 5:34:28 PM

That stinks. well. Yes if you do see one please lmk. thanks again for all your help!
January 8, 2009 5:39:04 PM

fullmetall said:
I've played WoW on a geforce 5500, and only 768mb of ram.
If your going nvidia way, 8800 gt is simple, recommend the 9800series though, still cheap to buy.
If your going ATI, dude i run a hd 3870 on farcry 2 noproblem, cod4 med/high settings, no problem. Your worried about getting a 4650.. you can still go cheaper. OCZ memory works great aswell if your wanting cheap memory. GKillz and OCZ are memory Recommendations for me.

If you want building help hit me up on my email Jaywarren or sit here and keep trying to go dell or build a computer. Have you tried calling in to dell to have them build you a computer, you tell them what your looking for and they will build it and ship it...

w.b.morrison2007@gmail.com


radeon 4650 is slower than your 3870 and is less than $70
January 8, 2009 6:31:25 PM

Then I must have mistaken the card for another card. Still if he's going to build the computer. Price out a piece by piece on a wishlist and see what the outcome is. pretty sure he can go higher than a 4650.
January 8, 2009 6:35:12 PM

Either the Geforce xfx 8600 GT or the 4650 sapphire is fine.
January 8, 2009 6:43:15 PM

fullmetall said:
Then I must have mistaken the card for another card. Still if he's going to build the computer. Price out a piece by piece on a wishlist and see what the outcome is. pretty sure he can go higher than a 4650.


I as well as several others did this for him in his original thread which i assume you havent read.

January 8, 2009 6:45:15 PM

He is looking to "build" is own computer right? He has made that choice?...
January 8, 2009 7:04:28 PM

No not necessarily, he wants to get up and playing asap and IMO a OEM plus a midrange videocard would be ideal.
January 8, 2009 7:14:26 PM

ah, so you prefer dell product + midrang videocard. I can see that, if he doesn't know how to put a computer together himself.
!