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Massive V-Drop on P5Q SE 2, need help

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January 31, 2010 9:57:52 PM

Hello,
I am currently running my q6600 (G0) on my P5Q SE2 at 3.2 ghz (400X8) but I really want to try and get to that magical 3.6 (400X9)

Currently to maintain a stable 3.2ghz I need to have my bios voltage at 1.35 but it registers only 1.28 in windows and drops to 1.18 on load

When attempting 3.6 Ill set voltage up to 1.55 in the bios to just get 1.41 in windows and yet it drops till to 1.3 on load thus crashing prime95

I mean I admit I am not an expert when it comes to over clocking but doesn't that seem really ridiculous? Any suggestions?

System Specs
Corsair 850 Watt
q6600 (G0)
P5Q SE2 (latest bios)
6gbs ram (2X4, 2X1)
HD 5850
Temps solid all the way around


Thanks for all the help

More about : massive drop p5q

a b å Intel
a c 197 K Overclocking
January 31, 2010 11:45:45 PM

I'd agree. I think that anything over about .05 volts is excessive.
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January 31, 2010 11:54:46 PM

That looks to be a cheaper motherboard. It's probably not good for higher overclocks on quad core cpus, as you've found out. You should get a better motherboard that uses a 8-pin cpu power plug, instead of only 4-pin. It'll be able to supply the power needed with less v-droop.
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a b K Overclocking
February 1, 2010 1:05:22 AM

TBH i usually disable Vdroop when im overclocking. But your are not setting what the voltage is going to be. You are setting the termination voltage which means that that is the highest voltage it will ever go under any circumstances.
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February 1, 2010 9:22:36 AM

Thanks all for the responses but seriously overshocked don't write on forums if you don't understand the stuff yourself...

First off you obviously have no idea what Vdroop is

Second I hope you meant you enable "load line calibration" which aids in lowering vdrop cause you can not "disable vdrop" and if your odd ball of a mobo has a setting called "disable vdrop" it is simply doing something to help lower it. Actually voltage testing (CPUZ or ASUS PROBE) will show you EVERYONE has a tiny bit

Third I am not setting any termination voltage but rather the actual voltage but thank you again for not reading my post when I stated that I did set the voltage not some termination setting

Everyone else thanks, I didn't really research this board much i got it for only 60 which was pretty good for any mobo with a P45 when they first came out. Ill just have to be happy with 3.2 or just try and way over set the voltage in the bios. It seems to be a solid .07 off so my new cap for my q6600 will be 1.57 haha I was just curious if anyone had any special tricks up their sleeves that would help but I guess not :/ 



Thanks for all the responses
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a b K Overclocking
February 1, 2010 2:10:56 PM

waynewarrior78 said:
Hello,
I am currently running my q6600 (G0) on my P5Q SE2 at 3.2 ghz (400X8) but I really want to try and get to that magical 3.6 (400X9)

Currently to maintain a stable 3.2ghz I need to have my bios voltage at 1.35 but it registers only 1.28 in windows and drops to 1.18 on load

When attempting 3.6 Ill set voltage up to 1.55 in the bios to just get 1.41 in windows and yet it drops till to 1.3 on load thus crashing prime95

I mean I admit I am not an expert when it comes to over clocking but doesn't that seem really ridiculous? Any suggestions?

System Specs
Corsair 850 Watt
q6600 (G0)
P5Q SE2 (latest bios)
6gbs ram (2X4, 2X1)
HD 5850
Temps solid all the way around


Thanks for all the help



Good read on vdroop. Basically, it says your system is not ridiculous at all and that what's happening to your system is by design. Nothing wrong with your motherboard.

http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126

VCC (Vcore) and Vdroop Explained

Load line droop (or Vdroop) is an inherent part of any Intel power delivery design. A current proportional to the average current of all active channels flows through load line regulation resistor RFB. The resulting voltage drop across RFB is proportional to the output current, effectively creating an output voltage droop with a steady-state value. Equation 2 dictates the value for RFB that should be choosen to satisfy the Intel VRD specification (the source of RLL) based on a) the number of power delivery phases (N) and b) the equivalent series resistance (ESR) of the inductor used, effectively known as DCR.

The first question that may come to mind is why droop voltage at all. Truthfully, in most cases the designer may determine that a more cost-effective solution can be achieved by adding droop. Droop can help to reduce the output-voltage spike that results from fast load/current demand changes. The magnitude of the spike is proportional to the magnitude of the load swing and the ESR/ESL of the output capacitor(s) selected. By positioning the no-load voltage (VNL) level near the upper specification limit (bound by the Vccmin load line), a larger negative spike can be sustained without crossing the lower limit. By adding a well controlled output impedance (RLL), the output voltage under load can be effectively 'level shifted' down so that a larger positive spike can be sustained without crossing the upper specification limit (such as when the system suddenly leaves a heavy load condition). This makes sense as the heavier the CPU loading the smaller the potential negative spike and vice versa for lower CPU loading/positive spikes. The resulting system is one in which the system operation point is bound by Vccmin and Vccmax at all times (although short excursions above Vccmax are allowed by design).



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February 1, 2010 3:00:24 PM

Yeah thanks for the read it definitely explains it very well

Still though I would like to see it at like .01-.03 not .07 :/ 

I would have to set my bios to 1.55 (which is scary since my q6600 is on air and is rated only for 1.5) to get it to actually get to 1.48ish which is where I believe 3.6 would finally become stable :/ 

Thanks again thou
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a b K Overclocking
February 1, 2010 3:17:10 PM

I get the OC bug/addiction every now when the thrill is in the pursuit with the simultaneous question "do I find the FSB wall this time or the CPU GHz stability limit or does my chip blow up instead?"

Your Q6600 is an old chip (perhaprs 3-4 years old?) and if you're the original owner at least you know the abuse it's gone through. All those Q6600 benchmarks and torture OC tests were done long ago on brand new chips, either just released or brand new revisions, steppings. You may never get to 3.6 Ghz with that grandafther of a chip due to unseen degration. But I know you're 50-50 on risking going for it. But even if you did reach it, will it be stable enough to run those benchmarks to gauge the improvements on the scores? Maybe you're just looking for an excuse to go AMD X4 Black Edition or X2 BE and unbury the unlocked treasure cores?

At any rate, on Google there's lot of Vroop info particulary for OC'ing the Q6600. Good luck to you!



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a b å Intel
a c 197 K Overclocking
February 1, 2010 4:32:54 PM

Hey, Wayne. I had my head up my butt and lost a "0". What I meant to say is that I think anything over .005 volt is excessive. My three Gigabyte boards average about .004 volts vdroop.

Here's the problem, though. As far as I know, no one documents test points where we can read the output of the switching regulator with a DMM to verify the software readings. So I have no idea if or how much nonlineararities and errors in the A/D converter are contributing to the discrepancies.
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a b K Overclocking
February 1, 2010 4:55:42 PM

waynewarrior78 said:
Thanks all for the responses but seriously overshocked don't write on forums if you don't understand the stuff yourself...

First off you obviously have no idea what Vdroop is

Second I hope you meant you enable "load line calibration" which aids in lowering vdrop cause you can not "disable vdrop" and if your odd ball of a mobo has a setting called "disable vdrop" it is simply doing something to help lower it. Actually voltage testing (CPUZ or ASUS PROBE) will show you EVERYONE has a tiny bit

Third I am not setting any termination voltage but rather the actual voltage but thank you again for not reading my post when I stated that I did set the voltage not some termination setting



Thanks for all the responses


Sorry man, but i had to respond to this.

I am one of the more experienced member on this forum and if you cant even understand my legible post then you seriously need to do some reading.

The CPU VID setting establishes the absolute maximum allowable processor supply voltage experienced during transient conditions and is not the target idle voltage.

When you set the VID of the processor there is an initial drop of what you see in windows. THIS IS NOT vdroop. That initial drop is Voffset working.

Together Vdroop and Voffset work together to ensure that your VID is not exceeded. Vdroop works to stop the load VID.Where Voffset stops it from exceeding the VID you set.


The reason they made Vdroop is because boards with small voltage regualtors (4-phase etc.) would raise the voltage to dangerous levels when the system went under load. So Vdroop was designed to stop this. But if you have a nice board with 10-phase Volterra power (like my board, the evga classified) you will see little raise in the LOAD VID from when it is off or on.Hence why i disable Vdroop when i am overclocking.

Vdroop is also used to save money on cheaper boards. Why make good power regulators if you can just enable vdroop on the board?

Strait from anandtech:

"No Vdroop means the VRM circuit must work harder at maintaining a constant voltage"

So if you have a VRM circuit designed to take a higher workload then you will have no problem disabling Vdroop, especially if you increase the Switching frequency of the MOSFETs which would supply cleaner power to the core.

"At zero amperes and the tolerance band at +3-σ, VID is the voltage at the processor."

Visually explained:
Board with a crappy power regs after disabling Vdroop:



Board with 10 phase voltera


Next time read some of my other posts before you come back with such a harsh greeting and do some more reading before you post the question, so you can understand my response.

Read this: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3519&p=6

And this: http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126
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February 2, 2010 1:11:40 AM

Your initial response was complete garbage and now you are angry cause someone called you out on for posting such an ignorant message so you googled copied/pasted your way into trying to sound smarter than you really are...

Thanks but no thanks
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February 2, 2010 1:12:48 AM

Best answer selected by waynewarrior78.
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February 2, 2010 1:15:05 AM

I should have done more research before buying it but I got it on sale for cheap and with a P45 and it was ASUS p5q brand I hoped for better OC ability but I guess 3.2 aint bad since it is rock solid stable.

Ill definitely be smarter and do some more reading before I get my next board (for my future i7) :) ]

Thanks
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a b K Overclocking
February 2, 2010 1:38:54 AM

Wayne, seeing as how you have only been a member of toms hardware for a couple weeks i understand how you dont know who i am.

First off i didnt change my opinion on the topic at all from my first post to my second. I still said that i dont use vdroop when overclocking and i still said that you are setting a termination voltage.

Second of all, i know what i am talking about and didnt "google my way out of it". I knew those links already and knew you wouldnt believe me without a source, so i was forced to take quotes from a different website.

Third, im a prominate member of this forum and have two guides for overclocking made, one of wich is stickied here. I am also one of the best overclockers on the forum. Making phase change systems, and cooling my system with DICE and ln2.

I hope you read those 2 links that i gave to you so that you can learn what vdroop does.
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a b K Overclocking
February 3, 2010 4:32:05 PM

Wow.... waynewarrior78 YOU FAIL!

What overshocked posted was 100% correct and I will back him up on that. I think some one who messes with LN2/DIce (like Overshocked) KNOWS MUCH more than you and I use similar methods to him when OCing (except on Water, and by water I mean REAL water not some H50 cr@p).

PS: I have NO vdroop on my E2180. Google up on vdroop/vdrop mod.

PSS: One more thing, don't go bashing veteran posters. They are usually(90-95%) of the time are correct.
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June 7, 2010 5:04:36 AM

ha... waynewarrior78... nice.
Allow me to summarize your statements to overshocked: "I don't understand some of the stuff you said, therefore YOU are stupid and being ignorant etc"
Thanks for reinforcing THW being the kiddy pool of enthusiasts, I don't know why overshocked deals with it.
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