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XP sabotage?

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March 23, 2011 2:56:38 PM

So, maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but hear me out. I own & maintain 4 XP machines. I'm sure that other XP users have noticed the increased frequency of "updates" from Microsoft lately. On my work machine, which I shut down nightly I have had updates waiting every day for over a month. Also, lately I have had serious crashes on all 4 machines with symptoms so similar that I believe Microsoft is intentionally sabotaging XP installations in order to sell more copies of W7. Anybody agree with me?

More about : sabotage

March 23, 2011 3:16:12 PM

No.
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March 23, 2011 4:35:46 PM

No.

It's not what your computer does to you, it's what you do to your computer.

Look around at the post here. Most people coming here for help did something to their computer and now want help to fix it. It's the same old thing day in and day out "I broke my toy, help me fix it."

Windows updates are never the problem. People say it is then later the truth comes out that they actually did something else they thought wouldn't hurt, or they didn't know what they were doing and messed up their machine.
They download cutesy programs written by some high school kid that failed to consider interaction by other processes that really only run under specific versions in place at the time the program was written.

People are cheap. They download and install just about anything on the net that says "free" and when it screws up their machine they suddenly remember that they had a Microsoft update a few days ago, and immediately blame the update. This is especially true for various automatic "tools" they download.

You'll no-doubt have people come here and agree with you, but consider the source.
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March 23, 2011 4:51:34 PM

I work on about 8,000 XP computers. No odd crashes here. Although I have this one issue with corrupt file systems on a SAS controller system that is turning into a bit pain in the butt to fix. Maybe the SATA drive makers are conspiring against SAS.
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March 23, 2011 5:12:40 PM


Naw... it's those switching power supply companies. Inadequate low side filtering. The high freq noise is getting superimposed into the data stream. Put little toroid cores on all the voltage leads (one loop through core) (yes you must cut the wire to insert the cores) and caps (about .1 uF) on the ground lines (to the frame) near the load.
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March 24, 2011 2:26:30 PM

tigsounds said:
No.

It's not what your computer does to you, it's what you do to your computer.

Look around at the post here. Most people coming here for help did something to their computer and now want help to fix it. It's the same old thing day in and day out "I broke my toy, help me fix it."

Windows updates are never the problem. People say it is then later the truth comes out that they actually did something else they thought wouldn't hurt, or they didn't know what they were doing and messed up their machine.
They download cutesy programs written by some high school kid that failed to consider interaction by other processes that really only run under specific versions in place at the time the program was written.

People are cheap. They download and install just about anything on the net that says "free" and when it screws up their machine they suddenly remember that they had a Microsoft update a few days ago, and immediately blame the update. This is especially true for various automatic "tools" they download.

You'll no-doubt have people come here and agree with you, but consider the source.




Thanks for the rant but I'm not that person. I wouldn't be asking this question if this were an isolated incident. If you think that this sort of behavior is below Microsoft I would consider you galactically naive.
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March 24, 2011 2:27:35 PM

hang-the-9 said:
I work on about 8,000 XP computers. No odd crashes here. Although I have this one issue with corrupt file systems on a SAS controller system that is turning into a bit pain in the butt to fix. Maybe the SATA drive makers are conspiring against SAS.



8000 computers. Really? What do you do in your spare time?
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March 24, 2011 3:44:04 PM

ram1009 said:
8000 computers. Really? What do you do in your spare time?


Work on the 800 laptops and 2,000 printers we also have at our sites. I have some hidden spare time, but that's for posting here when I'm having coffee and lunch.

I'm one of the tech leads for the sites, if we were having system-wide issues with XP, I'd know about it.
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March 24, 2011 8:05:30 PM

ram1009 said:
Thanks for the rant but I'm not that person. I wouldn't be asking this question if this were an isolated incident. If you think that this sort of behavior is below Microsoft I would consider you galactically naive.


Well, I did say to consider the source.

You're arguing with one person that works on these machines daily and another with a MSCS degree.
I think hang-the-9 has me beat hands down on handling these type machines but we both disagree with you.
Keep us informed... get some experience, and above all-- let us know when you grow up.


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March 24, 2011 8:25:54 PM

tigsounds said:
Well, I did say to consider the source.

You're arguing with one person that works on these machines daily and another with a MSCS degree.
I think hang-the-9 has me beat hands down on handling these type machines but we both disagree with you.
Keep us informed... get some experience, and above all-- let us know when you grow up.




I didn't start ask this question to start an argument. You're the one with the insolent response. I do respect the opinions of those who have more experience than I with XP but you can take your degrees and put them where the sun doesn't shine. Education is a poor substitute for intellect or common sense. Besides, you have no idea how many degrees I have. Mine was a simple question and it deserved a dignified answer, obviously beyond your degreed capabilities. I say again that if you think Microsoft couldn't or wouldn't do this sort of thing to make a buck you are unbelievably naive. But then that's the sort of thing they don't teach in school. BTW, I just had my 65th birthday two days ago. That doesn't necessarily make me a grown up yet but I'll bet I have a head start on you.


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March 24, 2011 8:40:32 PM

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I say again that if you think Microsoft couldn't or wouldn't do this sort of thing to make a buck you are unbelievably naive.
I'm afraid that that's where you start to sound naive. There is no way that Microsoft would indulge (or would need to) in deliberate sabotage of their own Operating System. It just wouldn't be in their own interests.

I'm also 65, and my computer support days are behind me now, but after many years supporting a network of 600+ computers plus about 30 servers all running Windows software I have never seen anything that would give evidence to that belief. I'm not relying upon my degree when I say that, just 20-odd years experience.
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March 24, 2011 9:17:01 PM

If anyone found out MS sent out bugs to their systems on purpose they would A. be sued for umpteen trillion dollars by every nation (see the EU lawsuits about I.E.), user and company that has XP B. would risk losing more people to Linux/MAC platforms C. Be sued some more. There are some silly moves that companies try to pull on us, but deliberately placing bugs in software that a company wants us to use over anything else on the planet is a bit beyond what is reasonable. Falls along the same lines as the theories on those Area 51 /Kennedy Assassination web sites. I quote one of the posts a co-worker sent to me. "We all know the moon is an artificial hollow structure where aliens hide in the craters". To me, that and the idea that MS is nuking it's software is along the same chances of being true.

There are probably several thousand very smart programmers/hackers/whatever out there that do nothing all day but try to find faults with anything Microsoft does, they take pride in shouting out any tiny bug that affects .001% of users. Think of what would happen if they suspected something MS did was crippling systems on purpose. They'd rip into the code and find out the truth in hours.

All MS has to do is state "we no longer offer security and bug fixes for XP" which they tried to do several times already, and that's the end of it. If you have any issues with XP after that, move on to Win 7 or another OS. No need to hide "hidden bugs" in patches.
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March 24, 2011 10:30:23 PM

hang-the-9 said:
If anyone found out MS sent out bugs to their systems on purpose they would A. be sued for umpteen trillion dollars by every nation (see the EU lawsuits about I.E.), user and company that has XP B. would risk losing more people to Linux/MAC platforms C. Be sued some more. There are some silly moves that companies try to pull on us, but deliberately placing bugs in software that a company wants us to use over anything else on the planet is a bit beyond what is reasonable. Falls along the same lines as the theories on those Area 51 /Kennedy Assassination web sites. I quote one of the posts a co-worker sent to me. "We all know the moon is an artificial hollow structure where aliens hide in the craters". To me, that and the idea that MS is nuking it's software is along the same chances of being true.

There are probably several thousand very smart programmers/hackers/whatever out there that do nothing all day but try to find faults with anything Microsoft does, they take pride in shouting out any tiny bug that affects .001% of users. Think of what would happen if they suspected something MS did was crippling systems on purpose. They'd rip into the code and find out the truth in hours.

All MS has to do is state "we no longer offer security and bug fixes for XP" which they tried to do several times already, and that's the end of it. If you have any issues with XP after that, move on to Win 7 or another OS. No need to hide "hidden bugs" in patches.



You make your case well but nothing I haven't thought of. My only evidence is my own observations of the rapid increase of "updates" along with the coincidence of symptom similarity on my own machines. This thread was an attempt to see if I was an isolated incident and it seems I am. I place more credence on that fact than any other. I doubt Mirosoft would ever get caught if they did what I suggest. I think somebody would have to rat them out. Otherwise it would be impossible to prove intent, and even then it would be word against word. Anyway, I'm glad to have an intelligent exchange with someone here. BTW, the fact you raise that they have been unable to end their support for XP even though they have tried several times could easily be interpreted as evidence to my speculation.
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March 24, 2011 10:34:11 PM

Ijack said:
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I say again that if you think Microsoft couldn't or wouldn't do this sort of thing to make a buck you are unbelievably naive.
I'm afraid that that's where you start to sound naive. There is no way that Microsoft would indulge (or would need to) in deliberate sabotage of their own Operating System. It just wouldn't be in their own interests.

I'm also 65, and my computer support days are behind me now, but after many years supporting a network of 600+ computers plus about 30 servers all running Windows software I have never seen anything that would give evidence to that belief. I'm not relying upon my degree when I say that, just 20-odd years experience.



I disagree completely that sabotage would not be in Microsoft's interest. Most people would take their computer to someone to fix who would immediately suggest an upgrade to W7 as the cheapest way out.
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March 25, 2011 12:41:11 AM

Completely and utterly false.

I never tell anyone to buy Windows 7. I work on other people's computers on a daily basis... and I can tell you that (with all due respect of course) that your "theory" is ridiculous at best. None of the XP machines I work on have problems outside of anything that could be contributed to the usual factors that mess up ALL computers: malware / hardware failure.

I see a lot of people downloading fake AV software... because they are tricked into it. This is true of XP, Vista and Windows 7 users. People also forget to do their updates for months at a time... which can also cause issues. I've seen AVG cause blue screens all over the place on certain machines (not all). Again though, this has nothing to do with MS deliberately sabotaging their software. If this were the case, large IT departments that depend on XP for mission critical applications (such as banks) would not still be deploying XP on new hardware.

Just because you have a few more blue screens than you're used to doesn't mean Microsoft is up to no good. You make yourself sound like a conspiracy nut by suggesting otherwise. I'm not in any way trying to insult you... I'm just making a statement about your theory and your anecdotal evidence that "supports" it. It may sound reasonable to you, but trust me, it's not. I know hundreds of XP users that are having no problems whatsoever.
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March 25, 2011 1:39:40 AM

Zoron said:
Completely and utterly false.

I never tell anyone to buy Windows 7. I work on other people's computers on a daily basis... and I can tell you that (with all due respect of course) that your "theory" is ridiculous at best. None of the XP machines I work on have problems outside of anything that could be contributed to the usual factors that mess up ALL computers: malware / hardware failure.

I see a lot of people downloading fake AV software... because they are tricked into it. This is true of XP, Vista and Windows 7 users. People also forget to do their updates for months at a time... which can also cause issues. I've seen AVG cause blue screens all over the place on certain machines (not all). Again though, this has nothing to do with MS deliberately sabotaging their software. If this were the case, large IT departments that depend on XP for mission critical applications (such as banks) would not still be deploying XP on new hardware.

Just because you have a few more blue screens than you're used to doesn't mean Microsoft is up to no good. You make yourself sound like a conspiracy nut by suggesting otherwise. I'm not in any way trying to insult you... I'm just making a statement about your theory and your anecdotal evidence that "supports" it. It may sound reasonable to you, but trust me, it's not. I know hundreds of XP users that are having no problems whatsoever.



As I said, I came here to see if I was the only one having these problems and so far I am.
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March 25, 2011 1:53:39 AM

I'm not here to bash anyone, only to provide my experience. I work IT at a bank, with close to 750 XP workstations and laptops. We keep current on our updates, but don't have any issues like you've described.

I don't work for Microsoft, and don't claim to know what goes on behind the scenes. But I believe it's safe to say, that they aren't sabotaging their own operating system. It really wouldn't look good on them to do so.
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March 25, 2011 2:55:48 AM

aford10 said:
I'm not here to bash anyone, only to provide my experience. I work IT at a bank, with close to 750 XP workstations and laptops. We keep current on our updates, but don't have any issues like you've described.

I don't work for Microsoft, and don't claim to know what goes on behind the scenes. But I believe it's safe to say, that they aren't sabotaging their own operating system. It really wouldn't look good on them to do so.



Of course it wouldn't look good but first they would have to get caught and I think they are smart enough to not get caught.
After all XP is hardly open code. Again, I have nothing but my personal experiences to go by. Apparently I have an improbable but isolated experience.
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March 25, 2011 3:07:44 AM

Nothing stays quiet. Big companies, such as Microsoft, have been sued multiple times. It usually comes from a leak.
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March 25, 2011 5:55:11 AM

aford10 said:
Nothing stays quiet. Big companies, such as Microsoft, have been sued multiple times. It usually comes from a leak.



Not to be argumentative but you and I have no idea how much stays quiet. We only know what doesn't stay quiet.
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March 25, 2011 6:21:03 AM

Now you really do sound like a conspiracy theory fanatic.
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May 3, 2012 9:14:23 PM

ram1009 said:
So, maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but hear me out. I own & maintain 4 XP machines. I'm sure that other XP users have noticed the increased frequency of "updates" from Microsoft lately. On my work machine, which I shut down nightly I have had updates waiting every day for over a month. Also, lately I have had serious crashes on all 4 machines with symptoms so similar that I believe Microsoft is intentionally sabotaging XP installations in order to sell more copies of W7. Anybody agree with me?


ram1009;

I tend to agree with you. I have been trying to keep 20+ XP's running and operational the last few years. Last fall after a reformat; several of the security updates kept failing & I ended up having to download each update and installing each seperately. This spring the number of updates keeps increasing that must be downloaded individually. I have searched for a solution; but have not found one that will allow the updates to load properly.

I am not a conspiracy theorist either; it is just seems 'ironic' that even tho Microsoft hasn't ended support; they have definately made it more difficult for me (& others?) to keep these machines running. It use to take about 3 days from start to finish to reformat & re-install all programs and put all of the users documents & etc+ windows updates; but now I am having to babysit the updates and it takes up to 5 days!
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November 26, 2012 11:38:59 AM

ram1009 said:
So, maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but hear me out. I own & maintain 4 XP machines. I'm sure that other XP users have noticed the increased frequency of "updates" from Microsoft lately. On my work machine, which I shut down nightly I have had updates waiting every day for over a month. Also, lately I have had serious crashes on all 4 machines with symptoms so similar that I believe Microsoft is intentionally sabotaging XP installations in order to sell more copies of W7. Anybody agree with me?


Dear Ram1009,
I so appreciate your post! Not as much for the post itself, as for the comical replies and near endless LOL's! You are correct sir (and it's about time someone give you a little respect and address you properly). On that note let me tell you that in the corporate world I managed 1,100 computer and servers for a company most everyone here would recognize, held other similar positions prior to that, and have owned my own company doing the same for small business... now 14 years running. Let me also tell you that both at said company and then at my own: we (at least then) would never hire an MSCS, MSCE, or just flat out MS-BS prospect because they were book-dumb, experience dumber, and often ended up after a year of losing their once gained (and so called) knowledge (Microsoft especially is a terrible teacher (as their materials go)) getting some position of unrelated expertise to pay off their unfortunate debt to an institution who gave them nothing! Let me also say in fairness that the MCSEs with experience simultaneously working in the industry have been some of the best Microsoft techs I've known. Rare it is as much as unfortunate.

The guy with the attitude back there is naive. Microsoft, in my opinion, is in internal disarray and struggle. I've seen sufficient evidence (at times of handing over my piles of cash) of internal warfare. One dept trying to further their cause against another, leaving the customer (and reseller) in the crossfire. Their new products are lackluster old ones with a fresh coat of wax and two of the three carberators removed. For our MSCS: ah... that's kind of like fuel injection, but when you were still soiling your diapers! You have stopped soiling, haven't you? Yes, I believe Microsoft is delivering junk with the new stuff while torpedoing the old. And I LIKE Microsoft. I think some versions of Server 2003 are as good of O/S as has ever been created. Namely, rivaling Linux distributions I've played with and Mac O/S. My sampling is by no means exhaustive: I'm sure there's better Linux out there and certainly within the realms of Solaris and HPUX (I don't know everything, but I don't try to act like it either) there's some solid product, but Microsoft did a better job than most techies give them credit for. Win7 and MS Office 2010 (two products we all rely on) and just absolute... oh I can't say the word - they are TRASH! Why anyone would consider 7 and upgrade from XP is beyond me. Might as well trade my BMW in for a YUGO. Oops, I left the newbies behind again. Hey MSCS: Grow up.

Nice talkin' to ya.
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May 25, 2013 10:59:59 PM

WOW!! I can't believe how niave you techy guys can be. I totally agree with ram1009. I'm sure they could do anything they liked to the software and nothing would ever be proved "beyond reasonable doubt" and even IF there was, I'm sure the EULA would cover it.
I will be delaying any further updates for the forseeable future, until there is enough feedback about to confirm "none sabotage".
I will be making the effort to switch to Linux after XP....wikileaks we need you :D 
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