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*Guide to Choosing Parts*

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October 20, 2008 10:13:44 PM

A Guide to Choosing Computer Parts -By Proximon

This guide got a refresh and can now be found here.

This parts guide is intended to help most of the people who come to this forum asking what they should buy to build a computer. It's not intended to be a specific parts list, but rather the information you need to begin making informed decisions. It may seem like a lot of text. Well, there's a lot to know and I've tried to keep the size down and keep the language simple.

EVERYTHING on this guide is subject to change. It is up to date as of ****** . :welcome: 

Much of the information in this guide came from regular contributors to this forum, by way of discussions, arguments, and advice. It is all supported by research. More information comes from various tech sites across the internet, including this one. ( I always keep an eye on this board, and what you see here reflects the current ideas.)

Other General Guides

Recommended Builds by Usage - Tecmo34

When you are ready to make a post and ask for advice, please use THIS format.

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Choosing a CPU
The very first decision you need to make is which processor to use. Intel and AMD both have good options at various price points, but AMD currently loses at most price points for gaming CPUs.
The fastest CPUs for the system builder are Intel. There is no debate here, it's been this way for some time now. If you last built a machine in 2005, this may come as a shock, but it's true. Currently the strategy from AMD is to avoid going head to head against Intel on performance, instead focusing on value. Sadly, they seem to be falling behind even in the value department.

Tom's Hardware has this large and complete CPU guide stickied in the CPU section. I recommend you read it, it's a little out of date but still relevant.
Also, there is the monthly GUIDE done by Cleve AKA Don Woligroski from TH. I feel I need to add a comment to this however. It covers what is useful in TODAY'S games... Not what you might need next year. All CPUs become obsolete at some point, and the less you spend today the sooner that will happen for you.

Overclocking
And while we are at it, I think I'll say a bit more on this subject. If you are building your own system, you should be planning to overclock. There, I said it, and it's true. There was a time, not so long ago, when this was best left to only the most knowledgeable and those with deep wallets. These days, it's only a very small step from designing and assembling your own PC, to overclocking it. The gains to be had are LARGE and the risk is far less than it once was. I have to say there is still some risk, or I'll get sued or at least hated... but there is more risk in just building your own computer in general than overclocking it. There is also a certain amount of knowledge to be gained in the process, that will benefit the average user.
Intel now offers a kind of "insurance" for overclockers:
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

Number of Cores
For most builds, quad core CPUs are now the norm. If you have a low budget or very minimal needs, dual core is OK. I've only recently switched from a fast dual core to a quad, and honestly the only difference is under heavy loads. Using a quad core now simply improves the longevity of the build. There are, of course, 6 and 8-core CPUs. More cores is not always better for gaming, and not needed for office work. If you do not know for certain that your professional software can use that many cores, you should find out before throwing money at the extra cores.

Longevity
This needs to be said. There is a disturbing trend here at TH lately to recommend CPUs based on today's needs. This is folly. My experience shows the average user keeps a CPU/platform for around 4 years, and much can change in that time. Buy more CPU than you need, if you can afford it. Just don't spend huge amounts on a CPU that is only slightly better than one far less expensive.

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Motherboard Chipset
We will now get into the specifics of motherboard choices. When we talk about motherboards, the first and most important thing (after CPU socket) is chipset. The chipset of the motherboard will determine how the board handles all the various parts that get plugged into it. If your CPU is the brain of the computer, the chipset is the spinal cord. So, we classify motherboards by the chipset on them. I use chipset in a broad way here, and it can include more than one chipset on the same board.

Advanced: Learning about the voltage regulation of a motherboard will take you a very long way in evaluating the quality of that board. For a truly masterful guide to this subject see this Hardware Secrets Article.

Thomas Soderstrom, A.K.A Crashman, wrote an excellent article for TH covering motherboard choices. It is now a bit old, but still has good data. You will find a bit more opinion and links to external sources in my guide, as I'm not in anyone's employ... that's in no way a knock on Crashman, he does excellent work. I just felt the need to point out potential differences. I make assumptions based on who I think is reading my guide. Crashman does not have that luxury.

Intel CPU Boards
(in order of current new build popularity)

Intel Socket LGA 1155 (Most recent mainstream socket. Supports both Sandy bridge and Ivy bridge processors. individual boards may not support Ivy Bridge processors)

Panther Point Chipsets (coincides with the release of Ivy Bridge processors, but also supports Sandy Bridge processors)
These chipsets all support onboard graphics. They all have native USB 3.0. They have PCI-E 3.0.

Z77
Supports overclocking and onboard graphics (with appropriate CPUs only). The most feature rich chipset.

Z75
Just like the Z77 chipset but a few less features, especially SSD caching that is present in Z68 and Z77.

H77
No overclocking but it does support SSD caching. Normally the most feature rich non-overclocking board.

B75
This is a "business class" chipset with no overclocking or SSD caching, but some enterprise features. It may be found at a good price for budget builds, and has great features for budget oriented gamers too.

Cougar Point Chipsets (coincides with the release of Sandy Bridge and the LGA 1155 socket. Many motherboards with this chipset can support Ivy Bridge CPUs, but will need a BIOS update to do so.)

- Intel Z68
This chipset offers a couple features found in P67 and H67, but combines them. It is able to OC but is ALSO able to support the built-in graphics of SB CPUs. It is able to use a small SSD drive as a HDD cache, speeding up performance. If you are a gamer and have enough money to buy a larger SSD (80GB or more) then this choice doesn't give you anything really and you can stick with P67. Note though that Z68 boards do come in very deluxe models. Perhaps having that backup graphics option will be something some people will want. Most gamers building an Intel rig will get one of these.

- Intel P67
The chipset that most gamers buying Intel used to get. Supports the newest LGA 1155 CPUs. Does NOT support the graphics built in to those CPUs. Does support overclocking. Supports dual PCI-E slots running at x8/x8, but look carefully at the specific motherboard as some will not have this feature. SLI or Crossfire. SATA 6GB/S support but no native USB 3 support (But most boards will still support USB 3 using another chip). Still a very good choice, especially if a price is much better than similar Z68 board.

- Intel H67
The new LGA 1155 chipset for those that want the built-in graphics of the new CPUs. Does not allow for CPU overclocking, but memory can be overclocked.

- Intel X79
This is the newest chipset from Intel. It is for socket 2011 CPUs. It offers more features and is strictly high-end. There are not many compelling reasons to use these boards and CPUs currently, as almost all gamers will not benefit from these features. Machines that must do double duty 3D rendering as well as gaming might be one use. Perhaps as video cards develop over the next two years, and place a larger demand on motherboard resources, this platform will get more recommendations. If you have very deep pockets and a desire to show off, perhaps.

- Intel P55
This was the previous gen chipset for desktops, and used discreet graphics cards. No reason to buy this for a new system now, as the newest chipset and CPUs offer such a large increase in performance... unless you find a very good deal. these boards and CPUs still outperform AMD options.

- IntelH55, H57
This is the previous gen chipset for desktops that only needed onboard graphics. No reason to buy this for a new system now, as the newest chipset and CPUs offer such a large increase in performance.... unless, again, you get a very good deal.

-Intel x58
The x58 supports LGA 1366 i7 quad core or 6-core CPUs from Intel. This is now obsolete, not recommended as it has been replaced by sockets LGA 1155 and LGA 2011. It's still a VERY nice platform and owners of these boards and CPUs have no need to upgrade.

- Intel Q57
LGA 1156 chipset intended for corporate applications.

AMD CPU Chipsets

Most of the modern AMD chipsets now come in an AM3+ flavor - what that means is that the motherboards use DDR3 and both AM3 and AM3+ CPUs can be used in them. This gets confusing and we really don't want to be confused, do we? For new AMD builds, you will probably want an AM3+ board and DDR3 now.

AMD 990GX, 890GX
This AMD chipset supports crossfire at x8/x8 and SATA 6GB/USB 3.0. It also has a very slight onboard graphics improvement over 790GX, depending on who you ask. Unlike the Intel P55 boards, the 6GB SATA does not take away from the PCI-E slots... making this a better gaming choice in some ways.

AMD 990FX 890FX
Like the 890GX only with more PCI-E bandwidth for those demanding crossfire video cards. The extra bandwidth might not be needed, but since these are more deluxe boards they can be worth a look.

AMD 970, 870
Will normally have just one PCI-E slot and no onboard graphics. A great budget choice.

AMD 790GX
An older chipset, but still many sold. Much like the 890GX but with no support for USB 3 or SATA 6GB/S

AMD 790X
Like the 790GX but without the onboard graphics.

AMD 790FX
A bit more pricey that the 790GX, this board had more features but no onboard GPU. Most of the deluxe AM2+ or AM3 boards fell into this category. PCI-E 2.0 @X16 in crossfire. Similar to an X48 board, but for AMD CPUs.

AMD 780G
Older board with just one PCI-E slot for video card.

AMD 785G
No large changes over 780G, but it's newer and may support some current CPUs better. Comes in both ATX and micro-ATX sizes and is budget friendly. Some increased onboard GPU functionality.

AMD 770
An older budget chipset, no graphics.

Other Motherboard Considerations

There is a lot more on a motherboard than the AMD or Intel chipset. Audio chips, SATA controllers, USB chips, heatsinks... it can be a long list. Currently, USB 3.0 and SATA 6GB/s are new standards that are not yet available on every board. Check for these.

Integrated graphics?
There are times when you just don't want a separate graphics card. Many computers just need to run office apps, or play a few movies occasionally. Fancy gaming video cards are not wanted. This is a good time to consider AMD actually. The A-series AMD processors have built-in graphics that can even do moderate gaming. I will not cover this in detail here, as most of our visitors are building rigs that could use a bit more GPU power. Ask us which onboard graphics motherboard is right for you, and we'll help.

What about SLI?
SLI means running two or three Nvidia graphics cards linked for increased gaming performance.
Crossfire means running two or more ATI Radeon cards linked for gaming performance.
SLI/Crossfire FAQ by Maziar
Many P67 and Z68 boards and all x79 boards support both crossfire and SLI. 890GX and 890FX run only crossfire, not SLI. Most 990FX boards should now support both CF and SLI.

Expansion slots?
Can be important, and a key part of planning out your computer. A large video card that is placed on some boards might block access to parts of the board you need. Two large video cards may make it impossible to install that sound card you want. Look at the expansion slots, imagine your cards and where they will be.

Ethernet?
All modern boards come with built-in wired networking ability. Only certain boards come with built-in wireless functionality, so you may need to buy a wireless add-in card. The onboard wired Ethernet will be all that most people need.

Sound?
See the sound card section below.

Ports?
Hey, there are all sorts of things that can be plugged into a motherboard. PATA, SATA, USB, eSATA, Firewire, the list goes on. Make sure you know what you need, and what you do not. Make sure you aren't paying extra just for some fancy port you will never use. Some people really do need 8 USB ports. Many of your ports are accessed in the back of the board, and some are internal.

(Continued in the next post)

More about : guide choosing parts

October 20, 2008 10:14:28 PM

Memory
Most new builds will now use DDR3, unless you are using an older AMD CPU for some reason. (or the PII 920 and 940, which are DDR2 only)
Historically, timings, also referred to as latency, have been more important than the frequency of the RAM. So for instance, DDR3 1333Mhz 7-7-7-20 would be better or equal to DDR3 1600Mhz 8-8-8-24. That has changed now with Sandy Bridge and a builder should buy frequency first then latency. 1600Mhz with a latency of 9 would still be faster than 1333Mhz with a latency of 7. How important is it outside of benchmarks? Just a little bit. Don't spend a lot on faster RAM if you need the money somewhere else.

P55/P67/Z68 H77/Z77 RAM (Most new builds)
RAM for the i5/i7 LGA 1156 and 1155 CPUs and MBs is purchased in pairs. It is DDR3 and needs to have a voltage at or below 1.5V.
RAM for i7 LGA 2011 builds is purchased in sets of 4 normally, and can be 1.65V but should be less.
RAM for the i7 LGA 1366 CPUs and MBs is purchased in sets of 3. It is DDR3 and needs to have a voltage at or below 1.65V.

AMD RAM RAM purchased for an AM3 board should come in sets of two. There is no need to use faster than 1333mhz, and voltage is not a big issue. (The newest AMD processors do support faster RAM speeds. I can't say at the moment how that might impact system performance.)

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Cases
With modern CPUs, chipsets, and video cards getting hotter, adequate cooling becomes more and more important. The biggest factor in a well cooled computer is not the CPU fan or the video card fan... it's the case itself and the fans moving air through it.

A good computer case is not, actually, one with lots of holes in it. It's a case with carefully placed holes with fans behind each hole, pushing air into the case or pulling it out. Ideally, air will be pulled into the lower part of the front of the case, and exhausted from the top and rear of the case. Picture the air moving through the case like a river.
Some cases seem to be quite successful using different methods of air cooling though, and hopefully more actual thermal tests will be done in the future.

Most builders will want a roomy case, to fit any potential part and to make building easy. Most "mid-tower" and "full tower" cases are roomy enough, but some can be too limiting. Pay close attention to the forward edge of the motherboard and how close it comes to the hard drives. Cable routing possibilities can also be crucial to the enthusiast that wants a nice looking build.

Do not forget front ports! Get the ones you need, including USB 3.0

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Power supplies
This is the most overlooked part of a computer build and the most important.
A computer power supply does far more than you think. It has to communicate with your motherboard to coordinate power needs. It has to adjust to varying power demands, all the while maintaining stable power in exactly the right amount. It has to do this in a range of temperatures and over a long period of time.

* A cheap power supply can fail spectacularly taking your entire computer with it. Just don't buy ANY PSU without consulting the experts. *

Picking the right PSU can take some education. Here is a guide that will steer you to the right PSU, while helping you learn as much or as little as you would like along the way.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/324368-28-computer-po...
Linked from that guide you will also find a list of the most frequently recommended PSUs.

Other features to look for in a PSU:
-Efficiency. This one is getting to be important, especially if you have to pay your own power bills. An 80% efficient PSU that needs to supply 400W will pull 500W at the wall. Also, the more efficient a PSU is, the cooler it runs. These PSUs generally have an "80 plus certification".
-Active PFC. An active PFC power supply is generally a good indicator of quality, although not complete. Active PFC units will have no input voltage selection switch, because they sense the input voltage and adjust automatically.
-Cable types and length. Many power supplies have difficulty reaching everything in the larger cases.
-Heat generated. Tied directly into quality and efficiency though, so it takes care of itself.
-Noise generated.

Generally, you and I can't say what a good power supply is. We do not have the knowledge or equipment to test PSUs properly. Most of the reviews written are done by people who do not have the knowledge or equipment to do it right. There are a few places where you can get good reviews of computer power supplies. This is a list of the best:

JonnyGuru
HardOCP
Hardware Secrets

If you still want to learn more about PSUs, you should start here.
This masterful PSU tutorial is worth an hour of your time also.

To see what the actual power draw a certain video card has, see this TH article. However, newer cards are not included. There is also this list, which I use extensively: Atomic MPC forums

How much power do you need? Less than you might think, but I strongly recommend you get more than you need. Here is a link to a PSU calculator:
PSU calculator
Buy your PSU like you buy your case. Plan on using it through 2-3 builds. Allow for plenty of margin.

I will say this about power supplies. If you are like many of us and will keep the same case for a while, don't buy your PSU to last a year. Buy one that will last 5-6 years, through about 3 builds.

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CPU Cooling
Many of us hate the current stock Intel system of push-pins used to attach the CPU fan to the motherboard. The stock fan itself is actually decent, but the push-pins create uneven pressure or fail completely, often. If the budget is tight and you do not intend to overclock, by all means stay with the stock CPU fan. Otherwise get a top-rated CPU cooler, and one that does not use the push-pin system at all.
The AMD system still works very well for stock clocks.
Top CPU heatsinks.

Water Cooling
Your CPU, GPU, and even other parts of your computer can be cooled using a water system similar to what you might find in a car or motorcycle. There are advantages to this. Water cooling is more effective, allowing for better overclocks. It is usually quieter. It looks cool.
It requires a bit more knowledge and aptitude than PC assembly in general, and many simply feel it's too much work. If you are interested in learning more, there are many guides and parts recommendations HERE.

(Continued in the next post)
October 21, 2008 12:17:46 AM

Video Cards
This is covered very well and simply right here at TH, and I have little to add to this simple, direct write-up done every month:
TH Guide April 2012
What this article does not address is overall system cost of the various solutions, but it has improved in this and mentions overall cost in some spots. But then, that's why we have this forum ;) 
Also not covered in the TH guide are more transitory deals and special overclocked cards that might be better choices for some. When dealing with non-reference video cards, be cautious and read real reviews, not newegg user reviews.
See also this article covering performance of crossfire on P55 and X58 chipsets. This shows very little difference still, as long as you aren't also taking up bandwidth with SATA 3 or USB 3. Also at that site you will find comparisons of 3-way and even 4-way GPU configs. They were done a while back now but still very good info.

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Sound Cards
With CPUs getting more powerful with more cores, and memory cheaper, the old argument of performance enhancement doesn't make as much sense. At one time using a PCI sound card such as a Soundblaster helped your computer run better while playing those demanding games such as Quake II :p 

These days, inboard sound can be found on every motherboard you will buy. It works, and does not noticeably slow your computer. Occasionally it fails to work, just like other parts of your motherboard. Your motherboard will produce surround sound that will probably sound just as good to you as some fancy Audigy sound card.

Different sound solutions do produce different sounds. Very expensive headphones might NEED a high end sound card to sound right. Some speakers NEED a good sound card or external amp. If you really think you might be an audiophile, then go for a good sound card. It won't hurt anything but your wallet.

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Hard Drives
Currently HDDs are very expensive due to floods in Thailand last year damaging manufacturing. This is slowly resolving.
There are many things to consider when picking a hard drive for your system. You may even need to decide if you want a traditional HD or one of the new Solid State Drives (SSDs). Or both.
Speed is important, but can be determined by many things. In traditional platter-based drives the platter density, the amount of built-in cache, the RPMs of the platters, the firmware, and other things could determine the speed. There is no telling without viewing benchmarks.
Then there is reliability and support. Many, many years ago (15 or so) I called a company about a hard drive that was clearly failing. 2 minutes later I was told a new drive was on the way. It arrived 3 days later with a return box for the old one. No questions asked, just respect. While that company probably does not have that level of service any more, they still get my business. Good thing they are still the most popular HD company ;) 
Also, these days we worry about power consumption and heat generated. Another important factor.
Here is a brief simple page on hard drives: http://www.hard-drive-help.com/technology.html

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SSDs

Solid State Drives are becoming common in builds with a budget of $1500 or so. Generally they will not help your game run smoother, but will help with virus scans, installations, large file transfers, game level load times, and of course boot times.
Here is a good monthly guide done in the same style as CPUs and GPUs:
Best SSDs For The Money: April 2012

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Optical Drives

In recent years, there has been a lack of solid testing done on DVD burners. Read speed on both CD and DVD, write speed on all types of media, and other factors need to be considered. Error handling varies as well. Some drives will choke horribly while playing a DVD movie that has a small scratch, while others barely stumble at all.
We have assumed that most drives were good these days, but a recent test at Maximum PC showed some significant differences.
In general, you will want a drive that has a SATA interface and will read DVDs at 24x.
Blu-ray burners are approaching affordability and will probably now be considered for higher end builds. Blu-ray combo drives, that play Blu-ray but can burn DVDs and CDs, are a good buy for mid-range builds. 12x Blu-ray can be affordable now and gives great performance. Be aware that Blu-ray drives do not usually ship with the software needed to play disks, and this can be expensive.

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Monitors
The most popular monitors these days are widescreen LCDs. LCDs are easier on the eyes than the old CRTs, weigh less, and take up less space on the desk.
The resolution of your LCD monitor will determine to some degree how much video card power you need. You probably do not want to game on a 30" 2560 x 1600 monitor using an $80.00 video card. A GTX 470 is probably far too much card for a 15" monitor.

Many people are interested in the 22" or 24" widescreen monitors these days, as they provide good value. You can choose to buy one of the lower cost offerings, or pay a bit more for some good improvements in color, response, and contrast. NO good reviews are done on lower cost LCDs these days. Past useful guides are now getting too outdated to link.

This has always been an item I preferred to buy locally. There is nothing like seeing a monitor in a shop, and being able to return it if there is something wrong. Shipping costs and such mean that you can actually pay less locally. So, if you can, get a list together of a few you would like and go hit the stores for them.

Recently I bought a new monitor and had a very narrow list I wanted. I used an online seller but chose one with an excellent monitor return policy.

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Well, that covers the important parts. Yes, there are more parts to think about, but nothing I needed to write up here. If you need specific parts recommendations, check my parts list linked below. :p 


My personal big list of all the parts is badly out of date, but includes a nice list of online retailers for several countries:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/269620-31-list

Tecmo34's list of parts, including complete builds at various price points


If you have a list like this let me know, and I'll link to it right here.

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Assembly
Finally, I would like to provide a few links to help some of you learn how to assemble a PC correctly:

Here is a GOOD step-by-step. Really good. If you encounter anything in any other links that contradict this, THIS is the right one. Sadly, no pics:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Assemble_A_Desktop_...

Tecmo has a very good guide up now, with pics, and it very well could be the best around:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274745-31-step-step-g...

Driverheaven has a great guide up now with pictures:
http://www.driverheaven.net/articles.php?articleid=132&...
The very nice case makes it look a bit too easy maybe, but it's a nice system using great parts.

Here is a tutorial with pictures that shows how to put together a cheap PC. All parts are cheap and you should NOT use the PSU they use:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/build_a_500_p...

This you tube video has some good points, and is done with fairly modern equipment, all new. The case he is using is a micro-ATX case from Antec:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdsUuWlhOvo

Finally, I have my own method for applying thermal paste to Heatpipe Direct Touch (HDT) coolers such as the Xigmatek or Sunbeam CCTF...

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252942-29-some-notes-...
Related resources
October 21, 2008 12:40:50 AM

hey i know a lot of people dont like nvidia mobos but if someone wanted to SLI what mobo would you suggest?
October 21, 2008 12:45:47 AM

Good point, I need to get to that. I don't have any solid recommendations right now, I'll have to do some research. Last I heard the whole 700 series was problematic.
October 21, 2008 2:09:17 AM

Edit: I withdraw my earlier comment.

I have to say this is looking like quite a nice guide.
October 21, 2008 2:18:57 AM

How exactly do you xfire on a P5Q-E? On newegg there is a black PCIE 4x, black 16x and blue 16x. I assume you but the 2 cards into the blue and black x16 slots.
October 21, 2008 2:26:38 AM

That's correct. The two slots operate at x8/x8 when crossfired, limiting bandwidth slightly with very high end video cards or very high resolutions.
Some serious overclockers still argue for P45 as the first choice for crossfire. They point out that, for them, the extra overclocking makes up for any PCI-E bandwidth limitation. This is probably true, although for moderate overclocks the x48 works well.
October 21, 2008 6:56:30 AM

The editing continues ;) 
October 21, 2008 1:27:41 PM

WOW i just read that link you posted proximon, i had no idea. never heard that they were even considering pulling out of the business. but it makes sence cause arint the x58 mobo's supposed to support both SLI and Crossfire?
October 21, 2008 1:29:57 PM

Yeah not sure how that's going to work... just a rumor at this point.

I added an EVGA 780i as the SLI board. Seems the best bet with their superior support and warranties.
October 21, 2008 11:42:56 PM

Thanks for the info, Proximon, this thread is a big help to me.
October 22, 2008 2:41:41 PM

Proximon can we get this thread stuck to the top of the forums? It would save everyone hours in sorting out random builds.

Also it might be worth having a section on usful information:

- What usage?
- What budget?
- What screen size?
- Do you overclock?

Jeremy
October 22, 2008 4:13:35 PM

If I get some feedback from some of the others here with good ideas, and flesh it out more, I'll lobby for a sticky. Your suggestions are good and I'll work on them tonight. :) 

(note to self about sound card vs. onboard)
October 22, 2008 8:32:35 PM

Other suggestions:

- Water cooling comment

- You haven't specified about integrated graphics, recently I designed a very budget build for a friend who doesn't game at all or do anything very much with the system integrated graphics are fine and kept the cost low.

- Comment re Intel's predicted price drop, I heard romours about the 19th?

- A link to some good posts about DDR2 RAM and the way it works in terms of matching bus speeds.
- Often asked "the bus on the Q6600 is 1066 so don't I need PC8500 RAM?"

If I come up with anything else I'll post again.

Jeremy
October 22, 2008 11:24:12 PM

If I make it too big and complicated it will get skipped. Have to keep the size down but we'll squeeze in what we can and link what we can't.

I think we already have a good memory sticky... I'll link it.


October 23, 2008 2:47:31 AM

More work done. If this is getting to be too long I hope someone speaks up.
October 23, 2008 3:45:30 AM

I nominate for a sticky!!! Good work man.
October 23, 2008 4:27:43 AM

Thanks RR, it's getting close to being ready I think. I wouldn't mind some opposing views, but I suppose most of it is not very controversial.

I was thinking if it was going to be stickied, we could make the second post just links to individual pick lists, so that you, aevm, Dirtmountain, and others could make lists too and not feel they had to compete with me.

I don't mean to be arrogant or anything, just trying to be efficient and helpful.
October 23, 2008 4:29:57 AM

Trust me if I seen anything abnormally wrong, I would of called you out. Sometimes ima ass lol.
October 23, 2008 8:28:52 AM

Thanks for the good information.
October 23, 2008 10:24:05 AM

thank for good information
its usefull for me and each other,
but how about AMD system?
in this post why only intel build sistem?
October 23, 2008 11:09:30 AM

The majority of our readers will be advised to build Intel right now. Certain people with very small budgets and people looking for inexpensive office computers can use AMD builds, but for everyone else Intel makes more sense...

Having said that, and reading your English ;)  It occurs to me that in some countries I have heard that AMD is more available and a better value than here. Maybe we should give it more attention for those people.

Honestly, I worry about beginners seeing this wall of text and never reading it. I'm afraid to add more words to this.

Edit: This information has certainly changed
October 23, 2008 1:16:31 PM

If you think it is too much text there should at least be a note telling people what information to post at the start - even if they don't read it then at least we have some idea of what to go on.

You could take out some of the detail and use a few more links to other forums.

Jeremy
October 23, 2008 2:03:44 PM

If people are looking for a power supply to use on a gaming rig with nVidia SLi video card setups, you can find nVidia's own SLi-dedicated site that gives their listing of SLi certified power supplies.

http://www.slizone.com/

Then, just put your mouse over "Certified Products" at the top, then click on "Power Supplies" in the pop-up list that appears.

There you will find all the power supplies that nVidia has rated for use with specific SLi setups that you might be considering on a gaming PC.
October 24, 2008 2:44:14 PM

Excellent thread. I certainly see nothing worthy of an argument. To niggle, I think the Coolermaster RC-690 is an outstanding case, but it usually gets mentioned in individual build threads. Another good place to buy (I've found good deals on CPUs) is Microcenter.com.
More trivial, you're missing an "L" in "spectacularLy" when describing the epic fail of cheap PSUs.
Your approach "This is how it is. Click here to learn why, or to learn more" is good, and can keep this shorter.
October 26, 2008 12:45:55 PM

I haven't had my hands on that case yet... mostly it's not on my list because I think it's ugly :) 

That's why I would like to take my list and move it away and put in links in the second post for individual parts lists.... personal parts picks should not be piggy-backed on a general advice article.
October 26, 2008 1:32:35 PM

Awesome, Just Awesome. I am having a hell of a time with my Blue bomber build and if I had read this first I probably would have gone another way. Any good books covering hardware the people have found usefull?
October 26, 2008 1:51:05 PM

It really all moves too fast for books any more.

It's even too fast for magazines, but I have found:

PC World
Maximum PC
CPU magazine

To be handy over the years.
October 26, 2008 2:07:09 PM

Is a retention bracket a huge deal. Im not familiar...
October 26, 2008 2:32:13 PM

A few things I noticed, the suggestion for 9800GT which is effectively a more pricey 8800GT (no differences other than the sticker on it), the Antec "Basiq" line sadly is just as bad as any other cheap PSU that explodes spectacularly, I never understood why they even tarnished their good name with it, the actual most commonly used P45 motherboard is the ASUS P5Q Pro (which crossfires and overclocks perfectly) just as the P5Q-E but is cheaper.

And the part about duals vs quads takes some discussion too but I'll leave that to the experts.
October 26, 2008 2:33:42 PM

I've used Antec Basiqs and have had great luck. They are supprisingly heavy with would point to quality.
October 27, 2008 12:18:58 AM

icyicy said:
A few things I noticed, the suggestion for 9800GT which is effectively a more pricey 8800GT (no differences other than the sticker on it), the Antec "Basiq" line sadly is just as bad as any other cheap PSU that explodes spectacularly, I never understood why they even tarnished their good name with it, the actual most commonly used P45 motherboard is the ASUS P5Q Pro (which crossfires and overclocks perfectly) just as the P5Q-E but is cheaper.

And the part about duals vs quads takes some discussion too but I'll leave that to the experts.



The 9800GT at newegg starts at $120.00

The 8800GT is quickly disappearing, but I do see a few left, starting at $150.


I think the P5Q pro is a great board. I think if you wanted an inexpensive crossfire board, and didn't mind the slight performance hit compared to the x38/x48s, it would be good. The price difference is actually greater now than it was compared to the -E, so I need to put it in. Well, that didn't last long. $14 difference atm and another $15 with rebate.
The -E seems to me to be the better choice for overclockers or those concerned more with quality than price.

Once you get beyond the bling, I think the pictures of the two boards say alot:


The number of solid capacitors around the CPU indicate to me better regulation
October 27, 2008 2:13:29 AM

Hey Proximon,

You helped me with building my first build 2 months ago. And I am happy with it. Building the pc turn me into a pc addict. I can't resist looking at hardware reviews and news everyday. I am not as much a noob as before I guess.

Anyway, I think you have to decide between 9800gt (AKA 8800gt) or the new hd 4830. I don't care what anyone says the 9800gt is definitely cheaper, sometimes as much as $25 with rebates. If you choose to recommend the hd 4830 over the 9800gt, you do risk seeming biased since you already recommended the hd 4850 and the hd 4870.

I like that you tried to compile something like this, but I don't think it is going to decrease the number of new build posts. And that is okay. Computer parts vary and sometimes people have specific questions, concerns or expectations for their new build.

And about the 8800gt prices. They are ridiculously expensive at newegg now.
For example, the EVGA 8800gt. I remember this being less than $120 two months ago, and now it is $165!!!!! It is a standard 8800gt, no overclock.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
October 27, 2008 5:00:41 AM

Yep and thanks :) 

I was looking at benchmarks last night on the 4830. I can't recommend it just yet, because it's the same price as a 4850, or almost. When the price settles in a bit, it will likely replace the 9800GT.
October 29, 2008 9:46:14 AM

Some updates.
October 29, 2008 2:05:52 PM

Proximon - on the list of UK component retailers, list www.overclockers.co.uk

Me and my friends all regard it as the best in the uk and the only place where prices even resemble those in the U.S (you guys get it so cheap)
October 29, 2008 2:06:16 PM

excellent guide Proximon, I am planning my first build and this has been hugely beneficial.
October 29, 2008 3:30:37 PM

I love this guide its helped me loads.
October 29, 2008 11:34:25 PM

fruees said:
Proximon - on the list of UK component retailers, list www.overclockers.co.uk

Me and my friends all regard it as the best in the uk and the only place where prices even resemble those in the U.S (you guys get it so cheap)


Added, thanks!
October 30, 2008 2:41:45 AM

(quote removed due to thread length)
+1 ^ guide future build good thread
October 30, 2008 10:25:46 AM

Dude, I don't think you needed to quote all that lol!
October 30, 2008 3:14:50 PM

This was very informative. Thanks. I'm one of the people who built a system <2005 and went with AMD for most bang-for-buck value.
October 31, 2008 4:59:20 AM

This has really given me confidence in my picks for my first build: Antec 900, Antec TPQ-850W, P5Q-E, E8400, G.Skill pi Black PC6400 DDR2, Palit HD4870 1GB Sonic Dual Edition... and of course I picked up a hot 22" HDMI ASUS LCD for cheap (rebate$) on Newegg. God, I love Newegg. Tho I do disagree with you about the WD hdd. Grab the Seagate version. 640GB, 32mb cache (twice the WD) PLUS the AWESOME 5 YEAR WARRANTY on Seagate hdds. WD has only a ONE YEAR WARRANTY.
October 31, 2008 4:59:53 AM

I forgot -- Thank you for posting your guide!!!

word.
October 31, 2008 6:43:54 AM

freezekill said:
This has really given me confidence in my picks for my first build: Antec 900, Antec TPQ-850W, P5Q-E, E8400, G.Skill pi Black PC6400 DDR2, Palit HD4870 1GB Sonic Dual Edition... and of course I picked up a hot 22" HDMI ASUS LCD for cheap (rebate$) on Newegg. God, I love Newegg. Tho I do disagree with you about the WD hdd. Grab the Seagate version. 640GB, 32mb cache (twice the WD) PLUS the AWESOME 5 YEAR WARRANTY on Seagate hdds. WD has only a ONE YEAR WARRANTY.


Good point. I will add some more HDs to the list. HDs are one of those rare areas where we actually have some statisics to go on, and Western Digital is acknowledged to have the best quality, at least last time I checked. I also have some really good experiences with tech support. Of course, the last time a WD failed on me was 1997.

While the WD 320 and 640 are faster, 16MB or not, I'll add some Seagates as well.
October 31, 2008 7:49:29 AM

Hmm, maybe someone should just sticky this :p 
October 31, 2008 8:47:21 AM

Yea this really helped me out - Trust me if you don't want noobs like me coming on here asking dumb questions STICKY THIS! :)  hehe
October 31, 2008 1:20:04 PM

I was unaware of the cache unimportance for the 320/640s, thanks. it's just why wouldn't WD supply at least the industry standard three-year warranty for a hdd? ive heard good things about both companies tho.
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