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Problems with Virtual Channels on Digital Air Broadcasts

Last response: in Home Theatre
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Anonymous
May 24, 2005 5:39:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

I have a Sharp LC-32D5U using a Terk HDTVi antenna. I can receive two
of my local stations pefectly with 65-68% and 82-85% signal strength.
Unfortunately, my local Fox station (WOGX) uses a virtual channel. They
broadcast on 31.1, but the PSIP claims 51.1 so they can keep their
analog UHF "brand" (Fox 51). My TV consistently receives 70-72% signal,
but refuses to display the broacast. So far I've had no help from Sharp
or WOGX on this issue as each blames the other for the problem. I have
two more days to return the TV and if I can't resolve this issue, I
think the set is going back. (It also has problems with the color
pallet using the HDMI... see my review for details).

Does anyone have suggestions on forcing the TV to display my missing
channel?
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 7:38:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

I've tried it everyway you can imagine. I unplugged the antenna and did
channel search to clear the memory. Then I plugged it back in and
dialed in 31.1. It still just gives me "No broadcast now [E203]"
despite 72% signal. When I dialed in 28 and 36, it picked up all the
CBS and PBS stations and automatically added them to the memory.

It doesn't matter what I do with the antenna (as long as I don't move
it lower), 31.1 comes in between 68 and 74% signal strength... and the
TV refuses to show the broadcast.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 10:04:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

TheGOAT (LenCab95@yahoo.com) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
> I have a Sharp LC-32D5U using a Terk HDTVi antenna. I can receive two
> of my local stations pefectly with 65-68% and 82-85% signal strength.
> Unfortunately, my local Fox station (WOGX) uses a virtual channel. They
> broadcast on 31.1, but the PSIP claims 51.1 so they can keep their
> analog UHF "brand" (Fox 51). My TV consistently receives 70-72% signal,
> but refuses to display the broacast.

If possible, tell your TV not to try and figure out virtual channels,
then tune using the real broadcast channel (31 in your case). This
is a workaround for stations that send PSIP information that confuses
some receivers.

--
Jeff Rife | "Ahhh, what an awful dream! Ones and zeroes
| everywhere...and I thought I saw a two!"
| -- Bender, "Futurama"
Related resources
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 12:27:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

I've talked to the station engineer and he says there's nothing wrong
with the signal. He says his old RCA HDTV monitor picks up the
broadcast just fine. He says it's probably just a bad ATSC tuner. He
said some tuners just don't like certain frequencies or virtual
channels.

I've also talked to Sharp and they claim the problem is with the
station. They have some engineers looking into the problem and claimed
they'd call me back, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm so glad we're moving to digital broadcasting so everything can be
standardized... do you think anyone at the FCC has lost his job over
this garbage yet?
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 5:38:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

TheGOAT (LenCab95@yahoo.com) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
> I've talked to the station engineer and he says there's nothing wrong
> with the signal. He says his old RCA HDTV monitor picks up the
> broadcast just fine.

That doesn't make any difference. It's a well-documented fact that
certain receivers have to have valid PSIP information in order to tune
a station. There is a Samsung model like this, and the Dish 6000 ATSC
tuner had this same problem.

> He says it's probably just a bad ATSC tuner. He
> said some tuners just don't like certain frequencies or virtual
> channels.

There is no way an ATSC tuner can "not like a virtual channel". It's just
a display for the user, and has nothing to do with tuning. Only what
is sent on the physical broadcast counts. The engineer was blowing smoke
up your ass.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/ArloNJanis/manure.gif
May 25, 2005 6:28:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"TheGOAT" <LenCab95@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I've tried it everyway you can imagine. I unplugged the antenna and
>did
> channel search to clear the memory. Then I plugged it back in and
>dialed in 31.1. It still just gives me "No broadcast now [E203]"
>despite 72% signal. When I dialed in 28 and 36, it picked up all
>the CBS and PBS stations and automatically added them to the
>memory.
>
>It doesn't matter what I do with the antenna (as long as I don't
>move it lower), 31.1 comes in between 68 and 74% signal strength...
>and the TV refuses to show the broadcast.
>

Make the station aware of the problem. They are probably clueless to
the fact that their mucking w/ the PSIP is preventing some receivers
from decoding their station.
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 12:05:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

I picked up a 40db amplified antenna (Terk TV5). It didn't make a
difference. I still can't pull in WOGX. It has to be one of three
things:

1) WOGX PSIP signal is incorrect
2) ATSC tuner cannot handle virtual channels
3) Severe multi-path/scatter showing signal strength stronger than what
the actual signal is
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 11:16:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

How can I be sure it's a problem with the PSIP signal when the FOX
engineer says there's nothing wrong with it and his TV at home picks up
their broadcast with no problems?
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 2:02:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

I'm tempted to return the TV (although it'll cost me $120 shipping and
10% restocking fee). It works awesome for movies and XBox so another
option is to hang out to it and see if the Fox issue gets resolved. If
it doesn't, I could sell it on eBay (I hope I could sell it and not
lose as much as returning it.) For half the price, I could replace this

with Samsung's new 30" CRT (TXR3079WH)... but I'd better getting 2"
less, 70 pounds more, larger energy consumption and screen glare, but
CRTs are supposed to have better color, contrast, response time, etc.
than an LCD. What do you think?
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 4:32:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

TheGOAT wrote:

> How can I be sure it's a problem with the PSIP signal when the FOX
> engineer says there's nothing wrong with it and his TV at home picks up
> their broadcast with no problems?
>

You can't. That his home TV works means nothing ... some
tuners will work with bad PSIP, some wont.

Some tuners, for example the Samsung T151, had broken
PSIP systems. The T151 at least had a fix you could
download from a PC with a CD that they sent out.

Doug Mcdonald
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 4:36:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

TheGOAT (LenCab95@yahoo.com) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
> How can I be sure it's a problem with the PSIP signal when the FOX
> engineer says there's nothing wrong with it and his TV at home picks up
> their broadcast with no problems?

Because he has an "old RCA TV", which means it has the RCA DTV-100 ATSC
receiver built in. This receiver is incredibly forgiving about PSIP
problems. And, I have that same TV and a local station has the same sort
of PSIP problem, and the Sharp receivers are on the list from other local
users as not being able to receive it, even though other receivers in their
house can.

Several Dish receivers and a couple of Samsungs are also notoriously bad
about this.

--
Jeff Rife | "Having your book turned into a movie is like
| seeing your ox turned into bouillon cubes."
|
| -- John Le Carré
May 26, 2005 4:37:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"TheGOAT" <LenCab95@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I picked up a 40db amplified antenna (Terk TV5). It didn't make a
>difference. I still can't pull in WOGX. It has to be one of three
>things:
>
>1) WOGX PSIP signal is incorrect

Bingo.

The PSIP signal is non-standard. Some receivers ignore non-standard
PSIP (to a point), but evidently yours does not.

Complain to the FCC's DTV task force chair Rick Chessen
<mailto:rchessen@fcc.gov>

Also email the station and "CC:" the complaint to Mr. Chessen.
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 5:58:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

TheGOAT (LenCab95@yahoo.com) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
> I'm tempted to return the TV (although it'll cost me $120 shipping and
> 10% restocking fee). It works awesome for movies and XBox so another
> option is to hang out to it and see if the Fox issue gets resolved.

Or, add an external tuner...like one that can record as well as tune.
Then, you can watch TV most of the time using the TV, but you can watch
recordings with the external box.

--
Jeff Rife | Al Gore: To my left, you'll recognize
| Gary Gygax, inventor of Dungeons &
| Dragons.
| Gary Gygax: Greetings it's a...
| [rolls dice]
| Gary Gygax: ...pleasure to meet you.
| -- "Futurama"
!