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old rig AGPx4 upgrade help!

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November 25, 2008 1:09:58 PM

ok, heres the situation. my old rig is getting long in the tooth, and with the collapse of the sterling my new rig that i wanted has gone from £650 to £800, a lil price.

So my spec is (and most of you probably wont remember these parts)

K7S5A - with AGP x4
got a 2nd hand Athlon XP 2400 (1.93Ghz) max this mobo can take.
1Gb of ram PC2100 (266mhz)
and currently a GeForce4 Ti 4200 128Mb

Now I'm looking to upgrade just the graphics, to give my PC a little extra life till early next year when hopefully I'll have a new job, and some cash and get my new gaming Rig with the new i7 or deneb cores.

I can get a x1950pro for £32 or an HD3650 for £40 (both 512mb). I've also seen that there is still an AGP 3850 (£76) but i only have a 480W PSU, and I'm guessing the 3850 would be bottle necked too much by my x4 slot and CPU.

Any advice on the 2 other cards, and would i get a big bonus from the 3850?

Thank you in advance

More about : rig agpx4 upgrade

November 25, 2008 1:15:15 PM

ok i tried to edit the message but i cant.

EDIT its an x1650pro not 1950pro that i can get.

also there is a 256mb 6200 but am guessin the ATi options would be much better than this.
November 25, 2008 1:24:17 PM

go for the 3850. good for the price.

but whit your cpu, a 3650 would do it. 3850 overkilling it !
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November 25, 2008 1:28:49 PM

wouldn't it just be too bottle necked on an AGP 4 with an athlon XP 2400 cpu? and would a 480W psu be enough for it?
November 25, 2008 1:32:02 PM

sry my edit was to late ;) 
November 25, 2008 1:38:29 PM

am guessin the 3650 would be noticeably better than the x1650pro? (the 3850 is too limited by my set up and a bit pricey for a "cheap" upgrade)
November 25, 2008 1:38:39 PM

Hmm.... the HD3650 i think would be the optimal choice. I was gonna say upgrading the RAM would help breath new life but after looking into the specs of the MB, K7S5A, 1GB is the max.

That being said, i would say save your cash on the new video card and save up for a dual core system. I think a new video card with that system is a waste of money, you may want to go to a dual core or quad core system soon and that HD3650 will just be tossed with the rest of the current system.

AJ
a b U Graphics card
November 25, 2008 1:39:58 PM

With that CPU, the 2600 XT is the best you'd want to get. Anything more will be very bottlenecked by the platform.
480W is plenty.
November 25, 2008 1:40:38 PM

but £35 for 3-4 months of playable gaming isn't that bad. i dont think. and then when the i7's and and X58's and ddr3 isn't stupidly over priced, or if the deneb is good enough to compete i'll build the new rig.
November 25, 2008 1:41:33 PM

the only cards i can get (new) are the x1650 pro or the HD 3650 (and 3850).
November 25, 2008 1:47:15 PM

hd3650 good choice
November 25, 2008 1:48:14 PM

The ideal would be to wait and build a new system when you have the means, but your best option is the HD 3650. I'd say go for it. I noticed a huge difference when I went from a Geforce 5200 to my current 7600GS OC. Don't expect miricles, though, I run everything at 1024x768 (native) and have to turn down quite a bit of detail settings to make some games playable (NFS: PS is at lowest settings, NFS:C at medium). The 3650 is definitely more powerful, but it's not a significant margin.
November 25, 2008 1:52:48 PM

whats NFS? PS and C? and I'll only be playing on a 17" CRT, goin to upgrade to a 22-24" LCD with the new gaming rig. I'm reluctant to build a new system just yet with the i7's brand new and over priced, and AMD's new cpu coming out in just over a month I'm wanting to wait. So i'm just trying to get my current rig able to run a bit better in the mean time.

so we all agreed, on my system, with my CPU and agp x4 the 3650 is best.

What if i got a new mobo with 8x AGP and able to overclock the CPU to a 333fsb (up from the current 266)? would that make much difference (only £30) and would it be good to get the new mobo and the 3850, or would the 3850 still be too bottlenecked by the CPU?
a b U Graphics card
November 25, 2008 1:54:26 PM

Before ordering a new card, I would make sure that it's compatible with that K7S5A motherboard.
November 25, 2008 2:03:00 PM

great now the 3650 is out of stock! and its £50 everywhere else!! grr, damn internet shops!

so looks like its the x1650pro!
November 25, 2008 2:06:28 PM

the x1650 will bottleneck your system anyway, the 3650 would have been a waste.
November 25, 2008 2:09:03 PM

would the x1650pro give me noticable improvements over my current GF4 Ti4200? it does have 4 times the memory at least. Am not expecting to play CoD 4 or crysis. just games like prey and Galactic Civ 2 smoothly. for the next few months.
November 25, 2008 2:12:17 PM

The memory isn't important here - memory factors into systems with large screens at ridiculous resolutions. Your CPU won't be able to keep up at 1280x1024. You'll see an improvement, but it won't be inordinately pronounced. I highly recommend you push your CPU to its limit on OC in order to get the most out of your card.

EDIT: don't get the fx5700. just...don't.
November 25, 2008 2:14:06 PM

i'd need a new bios to oc on my current mobo. max cpu is 266 which its running at. and i dunno where to get a new oc bios from for the k7s5a.

and boulard, am not in the US, cant get nice cheap AGP cards here. or anything cheap for that matter.
November 25, 2008 2:14:55 PM

thats what i told .. cant really find something good with Nvidia AGP
November 25, 2008 3:17:00 PM

evongugg said:
With that CPU, the 2600 XT is the best you'd want to get. Anything more will be very bottlenecked by the platform.
480W is plenty.

^+ quagillion

exactly what i was going to say. I used to have xp2500+ and anything more than 2600XT is overkill. I had 7800gs, it was overkill too. 1650xt or 2600xt would do, anything higher than that, your cpu would lagging the videocard.
November 25, 2008 3:39:56 PM

ok i cant find any 2600 XT, what bout a HD2600 pro? around £50 (only £15 more than the x1650 pro)
November 25, 2008 4:03:26 PM

pro is excellent.
November 25, 2008 4:07:37 PM

Isn't there a UK ebay? For your needs, getting a used agp x800 or 1600 would do the job, would it not. Even a cheap 9800 Pro would be a boon over a Ti4200, although i still remember the day my old Ti4200 first came in the mail.

And for your motherboard, messing with the fsb can be a pain. But leaving it at 133 and increasing your multiplier if your cpu is unlocked and the vcore on your cpu is easy using some small bent wires inside the socket of your cpu. If the multiplier is unloacked, getting a 2400+ to 2.25 GHz should be not too hard. VCore at 1.775 might be enough. I have made use of these wire mods several times, and on your exact motherboard.... no paint, no soddering, just placing some small 4mm wires in some cpu socket holes to change the multiplier and the vcore. If you want to try this, I will have some more advice on the subject. Reading up on it will help.

http://www.ocinside.de/index_e.html

and go to ocworkbench to find a forum where people have been obsessed with your motherboard. I would check into and use a Cheepoman bios, even if it does little things like make your default fsb to 133.9, etc.
a c 106 U Graphics card
November 25, 2008 4:08:50 PM

If your power supply has at least 18A on its 12v rail it should be able to support a 3850. Of course a 3850 will be severely limited by the rest of your system. A Radeon 3650 or 2600XT would be better options for you and should give you a decent improvement. Now it probably won't play Crysis, but at least you should be able to play something like UT3 as well as older less demanding titles.
November 25, 2008 4:24:34 PM

what are you wanting to run on your PC or is wrong with your PC that you want to upgrade anyway?
November 25, 2008 4:40:11 PM

well games like prey and doom 3 and galactic civ 2 and quake 4, just about run on this PC but not smoothly and only at low res. I think i'll get a 2600 pro but in a few bencmarks the 2600 is actually slower than the x1650 pro :S so am not sure. as for the overclocking, never been a huge fan of fiddling with the parts, but am open to suggestions.

The PC itself works fine, all parts are working and with the recent addition of some new fans it running fairly cool, CPU at 42C and system at around 30C. I've made do with the PC as it is cos i was planning to build a PC based on a Q6600 then on a phenom 9950, but now am waitin till beginning of next year to do that.
November 25, 2008 4:43:59 PM

Titanion said:
Isn't there a UK ebay? For your needs, getting a used agp x800 or 1600 would do the job, would it not. Even a cheap 9800 Pro would be a boon over a Ti4200, although i still remember the day my old Ti4200 first came in the mail.


I've looked on ebay but there isn't much on there and most of the decent cards cost more then they do from most etailers! so its a bit of a waste of time. there are no 2600xt's on there either.
November 25, 2008 4:44:25 PM

captaincharisma said:
what are you wanting to run on your PC or is wrong with your PC that you want to upgrade anyway?


How about the fact that he is currently running a geforce 3 ti 4200? (I had the same card, and it ran like a champ until the day the fan burned out, followed by the gpu itself)


to the OP: 3650 is the max you should consider for that machine
1650 or 2600 will also be noticeable upgrades
November 25, 2008 5:32:13 PM

Need for Speed: Carbon (2006)
Need for Speed: Prostreet (2007)

Whatever you can find among these will be fine:
7600GS/GT
X16x0Pro/XT
HD 2600Pro/XT
HD 3650

I agree with Titanion that you'll need to push your CPU to its upper limit to really get any kind of enjoyable experience (resolution, graphics settings, etc).
November 25, 2008 6:20:06 PM

is there any software that can bump up the speed of the CPU without any need to flash the bios or modify the mb circuitry?
November 25, 2008 6:57:12 PM

i found a site http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/465/5

has the 2600 pro/xt, 1650pro/xt and the 1950xt
and it seems the x1650 xt is better than the 2600 xt, and the 1650 pro is better than the 2600pro in most circumstances. but the 1950 xt is better by far unfortunately they're impossible to hold of in the UK. so think i'll get the x1650 pro for £32+vat and del. 2600 pro is £41+vat and del.
November 25, 2008 7:30:13 PM

It really doesn't matter which GPU you get - your CPU will cut them all down to the same level. I would just get the cheapest one (likely the x1600 series) and be happy. You won't see nearly the same deltas between cards that review sites get with that weak of a CPU.
November 25, 2008 10:03:41 PM

I know the cpu will limit it and wont give me the same performance at that site with their e8400, am not daft :p  but still the it seems the x1650 pro is actually the better at lower resolutions but higher graphics settings. so i'll get one, only £32. unfortunately I cant find any comparison between the gf4 and the x16xx. am assuming the jump will be noticable (if not staggering).
November 26, 2008 4:39:10 AM

mtyermom said:
How about the fact that he is currently running a geforce 3 ti 4200? (I had the same card, and it ran like a champ until the day the fan burned out, followed by the gpu itself)


to the OP: 3650 is the max you should consider for that machine
1650 or 2600 will also be noticeable upgrades



Geforce 4 Ti4200

Quote:
i found a site http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/465/5

has the 2600 pro/xt, 1650pro/xt and the 1950xt
and it seems the x1650 xt is better than the 2600 xt, and the 1650 pro is better than the 2600pro in most circumstances. but the 1950 xt is better by far unfortunately they're impossible to hold of in the UK. so think i'll get the x1650 pro for £32+vat and del. 2600 pro is £41+vat and del.


r we reading the same article? because from what i read, 2600xt is better than x1650.
November 26, 2008 5:02:45 AM

Ive got quite the similar rig as you actually, Intel P4 Northwood @ 2.2 ghz with 768mbs of RAM but ive also got an asus 7600gs @ 4X AGP and I can tell you that the 7600 is already enough as Im seeing my performance hit a wall due to my CPU, but nonetheless it is still pretty good for gaming like counter-strike source or battlefield 1942 and vietnam, also Rise of legends
November 26, 2008 2:46:12 PM

magicbullet said:

r we reading the same article? because from what i read, 2600xt is better than x1650.


if u look at a game, far cry for examply which i have - http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/465/9

the x1650 pro beats the hd2600 pro, at lower res but higher IQ.

and at DJC604.. rise of legends is one of the games i've bought but is currently sat in the shop bag as my system will barely play it, too jerky gets annoying. and given that the 2600 pro is like 40% more expensive than the x1650pro and they'll both bottle kneck anyway, i think the x1650pro is the better buy. just hope it makes the games more playble.

I dont bother looking at 3dmark scores anymore, too synthetic, never shows how much the cards will truly perform in games. Look at the latest cards, the GTX 2xx slaughter the HD 4xxx series in 3dmarks but in games there's almost no difference between comparible cards.
November 26, 2008 3:58:28 PM

baldinie said:
if u look at a game, far cry for examply which i have - http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/465/9

the x1650 pro beats the hd2600 pro, at lower res but higher IQ.


This indicates that he 2600 is the stronger card. I'll admit, its very finicky, but it plays games better at higher resolutions than it does on lower ones. My 2600 wasn't able to outperform my 1600 until I kicked all the games to 4xAA (which the 1600 couldn't take).
November 26, 2008 4:59:29 PM

my big querie is, does anyone know what sort of performance gain i can expect from jumping to a x1650 pro?

also, there's a powercolor and a sapphire, sapphire is £5 more. but the clocks are:
powercolor - core/mem 600/660MHz
Sapphire - core/mem 590/1380Mhz
which would everyone get? would the higher memory bangwidth of the sapphire be wasted on an AGPx4?
November 26, 2008 5:13:41 PM

yes, Rise of legends was playable to a certain point, its when you have hordes of 200 going on a seige that it gets to the point of slideshow effect. I would also say CPU would really help in those siuations
November 26, 2008 6:17:47 PM

well if not the bottleneck from the CPU your new AGP GPU will be crippled somewhat too sense the card will be AGP8x being placed in a AGP 4x slot so there is another small percent of performance gone too. you must be a hardcore gamer man if you want to do a small upgrade when you will soon do a big upgrade

@djc604: my last PC was similar but kind of slower than yours i had the 2.4Ghz P4 northwood with 512MB of ram and the "hairdryer" geforce FX5900 128MB and was still able to run half life 2 with a good framerate
November 26, 2008 7:17:18 PM

captaincharisma said:
my last PC was similar but kind of slower than yours i had the 2.4Ghz P4 northwood with 512MB of ram and the "hairdryer" geforce FX5900 128MB and was still able to run half life 2 with a good framerate


Valve games seem to be able to play even on the weaker systems thanks to the customizable config files that people or even you can create. I'm currently using casey's config for CS:Source and highly optimized it for my system which runs 60 fps without bumpmapping, shadows, specular lighting, but with high texture quality. autexec.cfg FTW !! :na: 
November 26, 2008 8:35:35 PM

thats also because valve take the time to streamline their code unlike other companies.

At Captaincharisma-
as with PCIe the older cards i doubt will need the full bandwidth. Taking the example of hd4850's in crossfire where they dont suffer to badly from p45 chipsets having 8x8x crossfire. Am guessin the x1650pro doesn't need all of the AGPx8 bandwidth. so wont perform at just 50% of potential.

and i used to be a very kean gamer till the games got too much for my PC, and i put off the new system waiting for the new i7/AM3. I have a lot of spare time at the mo, no job currently, if all goes well i'll be starting at the Met office in march (probably doesn't mean anything to anyone outside the UK) new job, more money, new system. and building it for Starcraft 2 and Empire total war.
!