Problem. Please Help!

[matic3060]

Ok, I just sold a computer on ebay for the first time. As always when I build a system for someone, I let it run for about a day straight, and installed a few programs just to make sure everything was working properly. Before I shipped it out, I uninstalled everything, did a disk cleanup and a defrag (though it wasn't needed). So the guy gets the computer, and now there's problems. He said it worked beautifully at first but then he installed FSX and after about 30 mins the system shut down. Now Windows XP fails to start most of the time. He said he got it to boot into Windows twice out of several attempts, only to have the pc shut down again. Any ideas what could be going on? I told him to try selecting "last known good configuration", but I'm not holding my breath on that one. The OS is Windowx XP Pro SP2 and the thought crossed my mind that maybe windows updated to sp3 and that may be the problem. But as i understand it, the whole AMD SP3 thing doesn't affect homebuilt systems. I offered no warranty on the pc, but I'm just trying to be a good seller. Any help would be appreciated.

Specs:

ASUS M2N-E
AMD Athlon x2 5000+ (Brisbane)
4gb G. Skill DDR2 800
eVGA Geforce 8800gts
320GB Western Digital SATA 300 HDD
Samsung Super WriteMaster
585W HEC PSU

 

[lunyone]

First off, your PSU might be the issue. I know HEC usually has good PSU's, but their low end PSU's are not made by HEC. The one listed on Newegg is made/labeled by X-factor (I'm assuming I'm looking at the right one).

This is the one that is package with the Compucase.

This is the PSU, if bought seperately from the Case/PSU package. I think th e Orion PSU's might be a tad better, but not sure.
IIRC, FSX is very demanding on the GPU/CPU. This would've probably put the maximum load on both parts (not that this is bad), but I'm not sure about the quality of the PSU's that is in the system. From some of the reviews that I've read, there seems to be a concensus that the PSU runs quite hot under normal loads. This tells me that the quality of the PSU is marginal and that the PSU is inefficient too!
I'd recommend getting a new PSU and see how that works. I'm betting that would be the best bet, but that is just assuming alot at this point.

P.S. What does a system like that go for these days??

 

[englandr753]

What version of FSX did he run? If its an old version there is known issues with the old versions even in Windows XP. I would ask him how old the game is. If its the new version then I would overlook this as a possibility.

I am also wondering about the psu. Did you load any games and really stress the system? If you loaded general programs it probably didnt get really stressed like FSX may do to it and it could be overloading the psu and shutting down the system.

Contact the buyer and ask him the version of FSX and any other games he may have installed.

 

[stoner133]

What is this new version of FSX you are talking about englandr753? There is nothing new. Acceleration Pack had been out for some time which is SP-1 and a couple new aircraft.

But I do agree with you on FSX may have really been the systems first real load, since FSX is a demanding sim on a CPU.

 

[matic3060]

First off, your PSU might be the issue. I know HEC usually has good PSU's, but their low end PSU's are not made by HEC. The one listed on Newegg is made/labeled by X-factor (I'm assuming I'm looking at the right one).
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-121-002-12.jpg
This is the one that is package with the Compucase.
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-339-012-06.jpg
This is the PSU, if bought seperately from the Case/PSU package. I think th e Orion PSU's might be a tad better, but not sure.
IIRC, FSX is very demanding on the GPU/CPU. This would've probably put the maximum load on both parts (not that this is bad), but I'm not sure about the quality of the PSU's that is in the system. From some of the reviews that I've read, there seems to be a concensus that the PSU runs quite hot under normal loads. This tells me that the quality of the PSU is marginal and that the PSU is inefficient too!
I'd recommend getting a new PSU and see how that works. I'm betting that would be the best bet, but that is just assuming alot at this point.

P.S. What does a system like that go for these days??

Yea, it is definitely the x-power one that is in the system. I did run Call of Duty 4 on max settings just to make sure it could handle it since I was billing it as a gaming pc. I did not however run it for very long, maybe a half hour tops. It makes sense to me that the pc would shut down due to a strain on the power supply since from what I have read, FSX is rather demanding. But still, that wouldn't cause Windows to fail to load after reboot, would it?

And to answer your question about how much a system like that goes for...$455 + shipping - tower only.

 

[lunyone]

Well if the system was running something and the system shut down, due to the PSU shutting things down, this is a possible problem. You might get a screwed up OS, depending on what was going on at the time of shutdown. I know that the OS doesn't liked to be shut down during high tasks, but not 100% sure if that is your problem. I'd say there is a high probability that it caused the OS to go bonkers, but that is just my opinion. If the system came with the OS than I'd just install the disk and do a repair on the install. Otherwise it would probably be a good idea to format and re-install the OS.

Did the price include Windows XP?

 

[matic3060]

What version of FSX did he run? If its an old version there is known issues with the old versions even in Windows XP. I would ask him how old the game is. If its the new version then I would overlook this as a possibility.

I am also wondering about the psu. Did you load any games and really stress the system? If you loaded general programs it probably didnt get really stressed like FSX may do to it and it could be overloading the psu and shutting down the system.

Contact the buyer and ask him the version of FSX and any other games he may have installed.

I did just read something about certain versions of FSX causing some problems in Windows XP. I will find out tomorrow which version he was running. But again, would that explain the problem of Windows failing to load after the initial shutdown? And if it is FSX that is ultimately the problem, that brings up another question: is it really my fault that it won't run FSX? I didn't advertise it as "will run FSX". But on the other hand, I don't want to do bad business and would like to be as helpful and cooperative as possible.

 

[matic3060]

Well if the system was running something and the system shut down, due to the PSU shutting things down, this is a possible problem. You might get a screwed up OS, depending on what was going on at the time of shutdown. I know that the OS doesn't liked to be shut down during high tasks, but not 100% sure if that is your problem. I'd say there is a high probability that it caused the OS to go bonkers, but that is just my opinion. If the system came with the OS than I'd just install the disk and do a repair on the install. Otherwise it would probably be a good idea to format and re-install the OS.

Did the price include Windows XP?

Ok, I see what you're saying. So I think what I may have him do is send the computer back to me and I'll do a clean install and then try to stress the system. What do you think would be a good tool for that? Prime95 or something along those lines? Not sure where I should go from there - I never said anything about the system being able to run FSX on ebay, I just simply listed the specs. Don't really want to have to put a new PSU in it out of my pocket, but I don't want unsatisfied customers either.

I did include Windows XP, but only because I got it for a ridiculously low price. PC's with much less impressive specs sell for a lot more than that on ebay every day.

 

[swifty_morgan]

Problem may or may not have been something the client did. Sometimes wires come loose in transit causing intermittent problems. Happened a couple of times to me. Suggest he push in all the connections.

 

[lunyone]

Yeah prime95 is good. I found Everest to be another good tool. I'd also run memtest86 also to verify that the memory is working correctly. It requires you to place the program on a cd and run it during boot up. Everest and prime95 should be all that you should need, but I mentioned the memtest86, incase you want to stress/test the memory seperately.
Newegg should be able to RMA your PSU for you, assuming that is the problem. Newegg has been very good to me, when I've had issues with parts. I'm not sure what kind of shipping costs that you'd incur, but normally the buyer has to pay for shipping back to the seller. Not sure if you have that kind of arrangement, but thought I'd mention it. You could offer to pay for 1/2 of costs, or whatever you feel is right.

 

[lunyone]

Problem may or may not have been something the client did. Sometimes wires come loose in transit causing intermittent problems. Happened a couple of times to me. Suggest he push in all the connections.

Yeah, a good idea there. I'm hoping that is it, but I'm afraid that it might not be. <praying for good outcome>

 

[matic3060]

Yeah prime95 is good. I found Everest to be another good tool. I'd also run memtest86 also to verify that the memory is working correctly. It requires you to place the program on a cd and run it during boot up. Everest and prime95 should be all that you should need, but I mentioned the memtest86, incase you want to stress/test the memory seperately.
Newegg should be able to RMA your PSU for you, assuming that is the problem. Newegg has been very good to me, when I've had issues with parts. I'm not sure what kind of shipping costs that you'd incur, but normally the buyer has to pay for shipping back to the seller. Not sure if you have that kind of arrangement, but thought I'd mention it. You could offer to pay for 1/2 of costs, or whatever you feel is right.

Well, the psu came with a case i purchased and then I took it out of that case and put it in a different one. Do you think they would rma just the psu even though it came with a case? Would be nice if i rma'd the x-power one and got the orion version as a replacement...haha. Yea, I figure I'll have him pay for the shipping back to me and then I'll pay for the shipping back out to him...only seems fair.

 

[marcellis22]

Stop thinking you're going to make money on eBay selling computers. I sell computers to friends and business associates because they know that's what I do in REAL LIFE. These people tell me what they want the computer to do, I make a list of parts and software and have THEM order through New Egg. That way, if there's a problem, they deal with it. I've built Intel and AMD systems for business and gaming, the motherboard and power supply are what I focus on. If you don't know what you're doing, get out of the kitchen!!

 

[bobbknight]

There is little margin in selling computers, esp. on ebay.
All the money is in fixing the things.

 

[lunyone]

Stop thinking you're going to make money on eBay selling computers. I sell computers to friends and business associates because they know that's what I do in REAL LIFE. These people tell me what they want the computer to do, I make a list of parts and software and have THEM order through New Egg. That way, if there's a problem, they deal with it. I've built Intel and AMD systems for business and gaming, the motherboard and power supply are what I focus on. If you don't know what you're doing, get out of the kitchen!!

I thought about selling on ebay, but like you say, there isn't enough margins in it. The only way that you could make some $ on ebay is if you could get the OS really cheap!!

 

[matic3060]

First of all, this is certainly not the first computer I've built. Granted, I haven't been doing this for very long but this is the first major bump in the road I've encountered. Seems like on almost every system I've built there is some minor technical difficulty, but I always get it resolved before the customer actually gets it. Sure, its much nicer to custom build for somebody that knows what they want, but I get tired of waiting for someone to want a PC. And I do think I can make money at this. If this issue hadn't come up, It would have been an easy 80 dollars for putting together a pretty basic system and installing an OS - I don't make much more than that when I custom build. I had to give it a shot when I see so called "gaming rigs" going for $700-800 and all they are is some real basic system with a geforce 8400 or 8500 and a pretty case with pretty lights and no OS. I'm in a real tough financial spot right now and this is what I love to do, so why not try to make some money at it? When I do have problems, I come here and learn how to fix it. I have to start somewhere, right? Thanks for all the help, will be getting the system back probably on Tuesday and I'll let everyone know what happens.

 

[lunyone]

Well good for you. I have been considering it myself too, but I don't have the $ to start doing it. I'm glad that your able to build systems and make some $ out of it. Sorry to hear that your going through tough times, I know I am too.

 

[matic3060]

Ok, thought I'd give you folks an update on my situation. Received the computer back from customer today. Hooked it up and powered it on, sure enough, it wouldn't boot to Windows - stuck on loading screen. So I went ahead and wiped the hard drive and proceeded to install XP. During installation, after the reboot, system would simply power off. I tried this about five times with the same results. Updated bios to latest version - same result. Was starting to think it was in fact the power supply, but then I read some things that made me think maybe it was the CPU. So I decided to just take the entire system apart and put it back together just to eliminate the possibility of something being improperly seated or a loose connection. After that I powered it back on and got a message at POST that a new CPU had been installed. So I went to the BIOS and checked over everything, exit and save, and what do you know, it works flawlessly now! At least so far. I've had prime95 running for about an hour now with no problems at all. One thing that strikes me as odd - in CoreTemp, it says each core of the CPU is only 5C on idle. Right now with prime95 running, 100% load, it says Core 0 is 24C and Core 1 is 25C. Isn't that extremely low? Doesn't seem like it could be right. I'll keep you guys updated if anything else changes.

 

[cmptrdude79]

Something definitely sounds amiss. I'd love to help further, but honestly, the most accurate temperature monitoring software I'm aware of is RealTemp, available at http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/. Download that and give it a shot, post back, and I'd be happy to help you further.

-J

 

[lunyone]

Well glad you got it figured out. I'm wondering if the CPU HSF got loose during shipping?? Nice to know that you didn't have to change out the PSU, I was a little worried about part. Hopefully you'll adjust your parts in the future, so you'll minimize your possible headaches.

 

[englandr753]

Good to hear. Check the temps in the BIOS, as thats the real mcoy. Id go with those readings before any software results.

I would still install a decent game and put the system under heavy load to BE SURE the system runs well in all circumstances.

You may want to evaluate the method you pack to ship your computers. Also, use red "caution fragile" tape to give the ups/fed-ex guys a little reminder to be nice to your shipment.

Good luck!!

 

[matic3060]

Yea, the temps in the BIOS were more what I would expect - low 30's. I failed to mention that when I was running CoreTemp, I had the case open. Open case + AS5 + Brisbane core = *very* low temps, I guess. With side panel on, it was again in the low 30's, low-mid 40's under max load. I think I will invest in some "fragile" tape for future shipments. The way I pack it is just with the original box that the case came in, polystyrene inserts and all. Plus an extra layer or two of bubble wrap where the inserts don't offer protection. I am very open to suggestions for a better method! Thanks to everyone for the help and quick replies! This is by far the best tech forum around.

 

[matic3060]

This just never ends. The guy got the computer back and now no display. 1 long 3 short beeps. Had him reseat video card...no joy. Now what?

 

[englandr753]

1 long, 3 short beeps Enhanced Graphics Adapter (EGA)


I am lead to believe that the video card is slightly loose. I would talk him thru taking off the door, removing the fastener and removing the card and reseating it. Im almost certain it would fix it.

I would also work on the packaging. What you are doing should be fine as long as you pick brands of pc cases that pack extremely well. Not much else you can do aside from spending your profit repackaging it...

(sorry wouldve replied sooner but was spending time with family today)

 

[matic3060]

1 long, 3 short beeps Enhanced Graphics Adapter (EGA)


I am lead to believe that the video card is slightly loose. I would talk him thru taking off the door, removing the fastener and removing the card and reseating it. Im almost certain it would fix it.

I would also work on the packaging. What you are doing should be fine as long as you pick brands of pc cases that pack extremely well. Not much else you can do aside from spending your profit repackaging it...

(sorry wouldve replied sooner but was spending time with family today)

Yea, I know that's what the beep code means. I had him reseat the card...he actually tried to a few times. Then I had him reseat the ram because I ran out of ideas...still nothing. I'm just going to refund him and get the computer back. I'm afraid that the video card may have gotten damaged. Will probably just fix it up and try to sell it locally to at least get my money back.