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SSD vs 7200RPM for my application?

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April 9, 2010 3:21:12 AM

I've searched many forums and haven't been able to get an answer to my situation.

I'm considering buying a
WD SiliconEdge Blue SSC-D0064SC-2100 2.5" 64GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) for 199$

This drive has a LifeEst Methodoly (life-span) of 5 years at 10.5GB/Day.

I plan to use this drive to run my operating system (Windows 7) and whichever games I'm currently into (in this case Starcraft 2 and Dragon Origin's.) I have a separate 1TB drive in which I store my movies, music, etc so running out of space is not really an issue for me.

My questions:

1) How many GB/Hour does a computer write to the SSD while playing Starcraft 2? Or surfing the internet. Whichever is more.

2) Will the 3 year warranty replace my drive for going over the max write cycles in under a year?
April 9, 2010 3:34:13 AM

PS.

I run the pagefile on a separate HHD. Read an older arcticle that showed performance increases this way. Obviously the pagefile consists of a lot of writes to the disk. Should I disable it, keep it on separate HHD, or keep it on the SSD? How much will it affect the GB/hour written to the SSD.

What I'm trying to find out here really is how long will this drive last me.
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 6:38:08 AM

I don't use Starcraft so I can't comment on it - but I'd be surprised if it wrote a significant amount of data to the installation folders.

I have Windows, Adobe Web Premium CS4, MS Office 2007, MS Visual Studio 2008, and several other smaller applications installed on my SSD. My temporary internet file folders are also on the SSD for browsing speed.

I typically use my system 8-12 hours a day and over the last couple of months my measured write volume averages about 5GB per day.

I monitor disk activity continuously and there really isn't that much that gets written to the OS disk on a regular basis. I'm fairly sure that most of the 5GB/day that I'm seeing is due to memory being dumped to the drive when my system goes into "Sleep" mode.
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April 9, 2010 6:40:54 AM

sminlal said:
I don't use Starcraft so I can't comment on it - but I'd be surprised if it wrote a significant amount of data to the installation folders.

I have Windows, Adobe Web Premium CS4, MS Office 2007, MS Visual Studio 2008, and several other smaller applications installed on my SSD. My temporary internet file folders are also on the SSD for browsing speed.

I typically use my system 8-12 hours a day and over the last couple of months my measured write volume averages about 5GB per day.

I monitor disk activity continuously and there really isn't that much that gets written to the OS disk on a regular basis. I'm fairly sure that most of the 5GB/day that I'm seeing is due to memory being dumped to the drive when my system goes into "Sleep" mode.


What do you use to monitor the write volume to the SSD?

a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 7:11:26 AM

> What do you use to monitor the write volume to the SSD?

I wrote my own C# program...
April 9, 2010 7:35:35 AM

sminlal said:
> What do you use to monitor the write volume to the SSD?

I wrote my own C# program...


I want it too.
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 8:01:18 AM

It won't produce hourly totals as you've asked for in the other threads.

I got the 5GB/day figure by looking at the Intel drive's "SMART" data, not through the use of my program.
April 9, 2010 8:23:39 AM

sminlal said:
It won't produce hourly totals as you've asked for in the other threads.

I got the 5GB/day figure by looking at the Intel drive's "SMART" data, not through the use of my program.

Alright. To get me a step closer to what I'm trying to find. How do I check a drive's "SMART" data.

None of the progs or info I've seen so far can help me even ballpark the volume of Data Written in an hour or day.

Aside from the MAC Activity Monitor program that comes with OS X which for this purpose seems superior to microsofts Resource Monitor.
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 9:28:03 AM

You view SMART data using a utility like DiskCheckup:
http://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm

But I have to warn you that standard hard drives typically don't record the amount of data written. Intel SSDs do (and other SSDs may also) presumably because it's a significant factor in drive lifetime.
a b G Storage
April 9, 2010 2:19:29 PM

You have to remember that 10.5G is based on writes. Reading is free. Typically 80-90% of disk activity is reading.

And 10.5G of write data is every day. I swear, you will get a girl friend and you will not worry about stuff like this.

Being informed is one thing, trying to understand how you will use your computer for the next 5 years baffles me. Are you now going to worry every time you download something?

The point I am trying to make is understand what they are telling you, then go out and buy the drive that fits your budget and performance need. Do not get caught up in the micro details.

Enjoy what this drive will do for you.

And in 8 years, it will begin to tell you it is not doing so well and you can ask your wife of 7.5 years if you can buy a new one :) 
April 9, 2010 3:02:28 PM

sminlal said:
> What do you use to monitor the write volume to the SSD?

I wrote my own C# program...



Off-topic: Wow... what exactly does this c# prog do?

And can i have it too? [:lectrocrew:5]
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 5:30:22 PM

It just shows Task Manager-like graphs of a few stats for all of the disks on the system.
April 9, 2010 5:39:54 PM

You need to taech me how to do that someday. All i can do in c# is create a ''Hello World'' Prog :lol: 
April 9, 2010 10:43:55 PM

For anyone interested:

PF: Pagefile

Running Starcraft 2 (with PF on) there is 1GB/hour written to the drive. :ouch: 
Running Starcraft 2 (w/o PF on) there is 0.68GB/hour written to the drive.

Moderate surfing (no youtube, no P2P d/ls, no streams) with temp. internet files & PF on: 1GB/h
Moderate surfing (no youtube, no P2P d/ls, no streams) w/o temp. internet files & no PF: 0.55GB/h

Watching HD Starcraft 2 replays on youtube w/o temp. internet files & w/o pagefile: 6GB/hour :o 


Tests were done in a "real world environment" with AVG Anti-Virus, ATI Catalyst, and MSN Messenger running in the background. Running Windows 7 (32 bit) in a more clutter-free state then most. Keep in mind Win 7 can manage SSDs a little better to reduce data written.


Thx all for the help.
a b G Storage
April 9, 2010 11:21:09 PM

sminlal said:
> What do you use to monitor the write volume to the SSD?

I wrote my own C# program...

@OP:You can use HDTume Pro (trial) for 15 days to monitor and log this.

PS: Can you upload the C# project? I'm teaching my self C# currently (mainly due to XNA :lol:  ) and would like to see some things you can do with C#. For the most part from what I read C# is gaining quite a bit of popularity over VB. I already know Java quite well (teaching my self multi threading right now; working on a pet mergesort multi-threaded :D  ) and it isn't that hard to learn C# imo.
a b G Storage
April 9, 2010 11:29:09 PM

Bogdan said:
For anyone interested:

Running Starcraft 2 (with pagefile on) there is 1GB/hour written to the drive.
Running Starcraft 2 (w/o pagefile on) there is 0.68GB/hour written to the drive.

Moderate surfing (no youtube, no P2P d/ls, no streams) with temp. internet files & pagefile on: 1GB/h
Moderate surfing (no youtube, no P2P d/ls, no streams) w/o temp. internet files & no pagefile: 0.55GB/h

Tests were done in a "real world environment" with AVG Anti-Virus, ATI Catalyst, and MSN Messenger running in the background. Running Windows 7 (32 bit) in a more clutter-free state then most.

Good to know.

Anyways, I personally got rid of my pagefile (I got 12GB lol). I use a RAM disk for cache for Firefox and moved the location of my Windows TEMP variables to RAM disk also. I also use the RAM disk as a scratch disk for Photoshop, vid editing,etc. A 3-4GB RAM disk is plenty for me ;) .

To give you an idea:

That's faster than THE fastest SSD, including the OCZ PCIe "SSD".

Note: Use a RAM disk ONLY if you have plenty of RAM, a x64 OS, and need only a small disk for use as a scratch disk.
April 9, 2010 11:44:21 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Good to know.

Anyways, I personally got rid of my pagefile (I got 12GB lol). I use a RAM disk for cache for Firefox and moved the location of my Windows TEMP variables to RAM disk also. I also use the RAM disk as a scratch disk for Photoshop, vid editing,etc. A 3-4GB RAM disk is plenty for me ;) .

To give you an idea:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2802/4433346194_ea936d899b_o.png
That's faster than THE fastest SSD, including the OCZ PCIe "SSD".

Note: Use a RAM disk ONLY if you have plenty of RAM, a x64 OS, and need only a small disk for use as a scratch disk.


Why not just use the SSD with pagefile and cache everything to it. Then RMA it before warranty is out and then use no pagefile or cache on the new one.

Also I updated my tests results post. 6GB/hour watching HD vids on youtube. What is terrible is regardless which drive I save the internet temp. files to they are still first cached to the main drive.
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 11:49:13 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Can you upload the C# project? I'm teaching my self C# currently (mainly due to XNA :lol:  ) and would like to see some things you can do with C#. For the most part from what I read C# is gaining quite a bit of popularity over VB.


I'd prefer not to, it uses a bunch of my own library routines and wouldn't be useful without them. There are a lot of good examples on the various development sites to peruse.

It took me a long time to get on the .Net bandwagon, but now that I'm there I really appreciate how much easier it makes program development. And coming from a C/C++ background makes C# feels very natural to me. The key to developing in any .Net language is to have a reasonable knowledge of what all of the built-in Framework objects can do for you. Once you've got that in any one Framework language you're already most of the way there for the others.
a c 415 G Storage
April 9, 2010 11:53:19 PM

Bogdan said:
Why not just use the SSD with pagefile and cache everything to it. Then RMA it before warranty is out and then use no pagefile or cache on the new one.

Oh great, and the costs go up for all of us. :( 
April 10, 2010 12:00:36 AM

sminlal said:
Oh great, and the costs go up for all of us. :( 


Thing is gonna die before warranty is out with normal use as a regular HHD.

Don't give out long warranty if product is not meant to last.

Besides kind of sick of how companies are marketing SSDs always mentioning how much more reliable they are than HHDs. :non:  Many companies even jumped on the bandwagen to say SSDs have a longer life-span than a HHD :fou: 
a b G Storage
April 10, 2010 5:05:07 PM

Bogdan said:
Why not just use the SSD with pagefile and cache everything to it. Then RMA it before warranty is out and then use no pagefile or cache on the new one.

Also I updated my tests results post. 6GB/hour watching HD vids on youtube. What is terrible is regardless which drive I save the internet temp. files to they are still first cached to the main drive.

1. There really is no need for a page file now days with more than 4GB of RAM.

2. A good SSD with TRIM (ie X25-M ) shouldn't have much of a performance degradation and reliability compered to a HDD.

3. You can't really RMA a drive with out a problem. More than likely they will sand the same drive back to you.

4. I use the RAM drive because it is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than my X25-M G2 80GB for use as a scratch disk to hold video/photos while editing.
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