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Do I need corrosion blocker?

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a b K Overclocking
March 25, 2010 3:13:21 PM

I live in Canada I have limited places I can order from. I can't find any corrosion blocker, I can either use pre-mixed fluid or go with straight distilled or buy corrosion blocker and pay 4x the same amount for international shipping. I don't want pre-mixed solutions with UAV coloring and crap because it a pain to clean.

I am using only copper blocks. Galvanic corrosion shouldn't happen as I understand it since I am not mixing any metals.
Pure distilled water without any heavy metals that can encourage chemical reactions. So I should be fine right?
Are there other types of corrosion?

I know errosion is another thing but does corrosion blocker even reduce that. As I understand corrosion blockers, the chemical adhere to the metal surface preventing chemical reactions but errorsion is not a chemical reaction but the physical turbulence of water causing material to be swept away.
Is errosion even significant?
I can't imagine how bad it can be since I have aquariums and they have been running for years on hard water.

Does anyone know for sure?

More about : corrosion blocker

March 25, 2010 3:44:23 PM

You can get a good corrosion blocker at any auto parts store. Its called Water Wetter. Its like $7US per bottle.

As for galvanic corrosion, are you sure that you are safe? Do you have any plated fittings, or plated parts that could be aluminum or nickel? Such as a flow meter, or a temp coupler, etc. If so that could be the cause.

Erosion is nota big issue with liquid cooling loops. Mainly the issue is corrosion.

-ouch1
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a b K Overclocking
March 25, 2010 3:57:16 PM

My barbs are nickle plated but nickle doesn't react with copper.

I will look into automotive corrosion inhibitors.

After reading about water wetter it doesn't seem to even inhibit galvanic corrosion, it only says reduces cavitation corrosion which is caused by turbulence from collapsing bubbles. The pump in computer cooling loops aren't strong enough to generate bubbles.

I did a lot of research but I still don't have a difinitive answer.
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a b K Overclocking
March 25, 2010 6:57:11 PM

I was trying to avoid paying $30 for international shipping for $5 bottles of corrosion inhibitor which is why I asked can I do without it.

This is getting tough. I am getting mixed messages from people. One person said de-ionized water will corrode blocks due to lack of ions until the levels reach equilibrium. I was told this process will always occur despite additives.

I was also told galvanic corrosion shouldn't occur if I don't mix metals such as aluminium and I would be fine.

One person suggested that I add some AF because it lubricates the pump but someone also commented that liquid cooling pumps aren't really strong as automotive pumps and doesn't have much metal to metal contact thus errosion and frictional forces are insignificant and the pump can still run really long without lubrication.

This is getting confusing because I want to save $30 off shipping. Which is still a lot of money for a $5 of stuff.
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March 25, 2010 7:16:31 PM

I totally understand about the shipping. one of my friends is stationed in Alaska, and he has to pay through the nose for shipping. Where are you located? Sometimes other people know of good shops and websites to check out.

As for de-ionized water it can cause problems as people have told you. Distilled water is different as it already has free ions in it from the distillation process. Here is some info on it: Deionized vs distilled water

Also I recommend reading the following thread as it will give you more info and resources to go on. New to watercooling? Read here first!!!!!!!!!!

-ouch1
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a b K Overclocking
March 25, 2010 9:02:28 PM

Get some KillCoils or some PT Nuke.
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a c 86 K Overclocking
March 26, 2010 2:33:39 AM

ouch1 said:
I totally understand about the shipping. one of my friends is stationed in Alaska, and he has to pay through the nose for shipping. Where are you located? Sometimes other people know of good shops and websites to check out.

As for de-ionized water it can cause problems as people have told you. Distilled water is different as it already has free ions in it from the distillation process. Here is some info on it: Deionized vs distilled water

Also I recommend reading the following thread as it will give you more info and resources to go on. New to watercooling? Read here first!!!!!!!!!!

-ouch1



There is no difference between deionized and distilled for watercooling purposes. No matter what silly death, melting of a science lab killing 500 people, in PC watercooling either is just fine.

You read the silly stuf too deep ouch1. Many years of life will give you guidance on whats important and whats silly hype.

Toms all the way....
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March 26, 2010 3:19:26 PM

Conumdrum said:
There is no difference between deionized and distilled for watercooling purposes. No matter what silly death, melting of a science lab killing 500 people, in PC watercooling either is just fine.

You read the silly stuf too deep ouch1. Many years of life will give you guidance on whats important and whats silly hype.

Toms all the way....


Conumdrum,

Don't get me wrong I respect your views, but if you think I read to deeply then please keep it to yourself.

I took chemistry in college (almost 20 years ago), and remember quite well an experiment we did with deionized water. In order to show how much deionized water will pull ions from its enviroment we placed a steel wool pad in a 1 gallon beaker of deionized water, and then we placed the beaker in a sealed enviroment. After 2 days we removed the beaker and dried what was left of the steel wool using a hot plate. It seems that the steel wool lost 1/10th its weight in both rust and free ions. When we added the weight of the rust that we collected from the bottom of the container we determined that 1/25th of thesteel pad have been converted to ions in the water. That is 4% of the entire steel wool pad was converted to free ions in the water, and that is just a gallon of water. Remember that completely pure water actually has the properties of a mild solvent. That is it will leach salts and minerals from whatever it comes into contact with, and it will continue to do so until it reached equalibrium with its enviroment.

Where as distilled water has already absorbed free ions during the distillation process. It is less likely to cause issues in cooling loops such as the ones in cars, and liquid cooling loops in pc's.

Also I know that de-ionized is recommended to lead-acid car batteries that require maintenance and is not recommended for use in car coolant loops. As it will cause corrosion and rust in the coolant, but in a battery you want movement of free ions.

I hope that shows you what I am trying to point out.

-ouch1
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a b K Overclocking
March 26, 2010 3:31:33 PM

^ That was steel m8, not Copper. MANY people have been running deionized water for a LONG time and haven't had problems.
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March 26, 2010 4:22:35 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^ That was steel m8, not Copper. MANY people have been running deionized water for a LONG time and haven't had problems.


It will pull ions from all of its enviroment. That includes the air too. So I doubt copper will be immune to it : http://www.finishing.com/138/06.shtml

-ouch1
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a c 86 K Overclocking
March 27, 2010 2:06:16 AM

Sure ouch1. What I'm saying in a critical special environment, all lab stuff and such it matters.

But NOT in a watercooling loop. Ever have a email conversation with a world class overclocker from UK with more experiance than 10 of us? I have.

You haven't. I KNOW from my sources, mates who been watercooling for years, and it don't freaking matter.

You can buy a $600 meter and test it yourself as they have done. Some have run a identical loop for 6 months using $100 per 5 liters of lab water vs the standard battery water they get in the UK.

Works just the same. Loops look the same.

So, since I have connections and not 20 year old lab experiments, I win. I'm modern.

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a b K Overclocking
March 27, 2010 2:22:53 AM

Hmm I see your test is kinda biased compared to water cooling in practice.

Steel wool has much more surface area than a steel plate or a copper plate in this case. You said the test included 1 gallon of water. My water cooling loop has about 750ML of water. That is 18% of 1 gallon, equilibrium would be reached 5.5x faster as copper has different properties as well. Im sure it isn't as bad as it seems.

I will conduct a test of own to see. I would submerge a penny into de-ionized water lets see how much mass it looses in two days.
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a b K Overclocking
March 27, 2010 5:22:47 PM

Im Canadian, Pennies here up to 1996 are 95% copper. My 1989 and 1942 penny is sitting in this cup of water for about a day now. I don't see any change. I even scratched the surface of the two pennies to make sure new copper is exposed.
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a b K Overclocking
March 27, 2010 5:42:29 PM

^ Ahh... :lol:  damn you Canadians.... ;) 
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March 27, 2010 6:22:45 PM

Galvanic corrosion is only an issue if you have mixed metals in your loop (i.e., copper and aluminium). In most cases, you don't need to worry about it if you are careful in selecting the proper parts in your loop. It sounds like you did take some time to do this already.

The only thing you will want to add to your fluid is a biotic inhibitor and possibly an substance to reduce the shearing factor in the water to reduce the wear on your pump. Water wetter does an pretty good job on this front, as well several other products. When you do go to buy a product, make sure it does not have ethylene glycol alcohol in it. Propylene glycol is OK, but avoid the more toxic glycol alcohol.
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a b K Overclocking
March 28, 2010 1:10:47 AM

Ok my two pennies have been sumerged for two days. Nothing happened. They are still dark and dirty as ever. The deep scratches are still clean and shiny and didn't grow.

Maybe the process is way too slow or perhaps it reached equilibrium so fast nothing really happened.
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March 29, 2010 6:57:19 PM

rofl_my_waffle said:
Ok my two pennies have been sumerged for two days. Nothing happened. They are still dark and dirty as ever. The deep scratches are still clean and shiny and didn't grow.

Maybe the process is way too slow or perhaps it reached equilibrium so fast nothing really happened.


With copper the process is slower but it still happens none the less. If you want to see if happen leave the pennies in there for a few weeks to really see the difference.

-ouch1
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March 29, 2010 11:05:01 PM

Something to note. Unless you have a lot of time on your hands, or you are running a cooling loop with nitric or sulfuric acid, the chances of you seeing any copper parts oxidize at the operating temperatures for a computer water cooling loop is going to be worse than you chances of getting struck by lightning.

Copper(I) oxide and copper(II) oxide usually form at higher temperatures and in the presence of an oxidizing agent (i.e., an acid). Granted, water can act as an oxidizing agent if there are enough free ions, but most distilled water has very little of these, or so little that the amount is not significant. If you change the fluid in your loop once a year at worst, you won't see anything, in fact.

Galvanic corrosion, though, will occur if you have two different metals in the same loop. They will reduce against each other, using the fluid in your loop as the reducing medium. It won't happen fast, but it will happen, and you will notice this as the different metals form oxides, some of which will go into solution and discolor the loop, and other that will precipitate and form solid particles carried in the loop. But, at the temperatures we are talking about, it would take a number of months before you would notice anything.
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