System Builder Marathon, March 2010: System Value Compared
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Last response: in Reviews comments
Crashman
March 19, 2010 6:00:05 AM
Budget enhancements to this month’s SBM finally reflect last year’s price increases, allowing the return of liquid cooling at the high-end and Core i7 for the mid-priced systems. With big improvements to its bigger brothers, can the low-cost PC still win?
System Builder Marathon, March 2010: System Value Compared : Read more
System Builder Marathon, March 2010: System Value Compared : Read more
More about : system builder marathon march 2010 system compared
DearSX
March 19, 2010 6:09:36 AM
dirtmountain
March 19, 2010 6:30:04 AM
The performance of the $750 system is great for the price and i certainly agree with your statement "Yet the real winner is not the machine but its builder, as Paul Henningsen achieved a best value coup with AMD’s low-cost, overclockable, and unlockable Athlon II X3 435 processor."
A big +1 to Mr. Henningsen and the other builders.
A big +1 to Mr. Henningsen and the other builders.
Score
25
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shubham1401
March 19, 2010 7:04:27 AM
skora
March 19, 2010 8:33:40 AM
gkay09
March 19, 2010 8:47:52 AM
Outstanding results. I hope this helps kids who are building with Daddy's money understand that they don't need to waste it on a big edong. Furthermore, for all practical intents and purposes, FPS may be capped at 120Hz for 3D displays and 60Hz for the other 99.9+% of us, and higher [minimum] framerates ignored in the value comparisons as not being a visible improvement. Unlocking being partly a matter of luck though, it does still support the value of a quad-core processor, even in a budget build.
On the subject of AVG, I'd leave it in the benchmarks as a valid example of a program a lot of people use, making its results relevant even if they look a little odd.
On the subject of AVG, I'd leave it in the benchmarks as a valid example of a program a lot of people use, making its results relevant even if they look a little odd.
Score
4
axekick
March 19, 2010 10:57:25 AM
I built my first build last October using a very similar setup.
Antec 300 Illusion (same case)
Gygabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H (same motherboard)
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS
G.Skill (2x2GB) DDR3 1333
AMD Phenom II X3 720
Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon HD 5750 (recently added)
Corsair 450VX
Samsung SH-S223B DVD Burner
At the time it cost slightly less, without OS and including the recently added Radeon HD 5750 totals $737.55
I have very similar benchmarks, slightly better actually and am very satisfied with the system. I have successfully unlocked the fourth core of the BE 720 and ran benchmarks after overclocking the processor and video card. It's an outstanding system for the price, more than I need. Actually I have locked back down the fourth core and do not keep it over-clocked as I don't do a lot of gaming.
Antec 300 Illusion (same case)
Gygabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H (same motherboard)
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS
G.Skill (2x2GB) DDR3 1333
AMD Phenom II X3 720
Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon HD 5750 (recently added)
Corsair 450VX
Samsung SH-S223B DVD Burner
At the time it cost slightly less, without OS and including the recently added Radeon HD 5750 totals $737.55
I have very similar benchmarks, slightly better actually and am very satisfied with the system. I have successfully unlocked the fourth core of the BE 720 and ran benchmarks after overclocking the processor and video card. It's an outstanding system for the price, more than I need. Actually I have locked back down the fourth core and do not keep it over-clocked as I don't do a lot of gaming.
Score
-2
gilbertfh
March 19, 2010 11:07:46 AM
bustapr
March 19, 2010 11:34:59 AM
I hope u guys start selling PCs on Newegg. "THG SMB Gaming PCs", I would like to buy that $750 PC, already built at that price or similar. It would save me alot of trouble building and ordering parts and it will become an instant best seller. You guys can destroy cyberpower and alienware and others. Paul Henningson, you can get rich fast.
Score
10
jeverson
March 19, 2010 12:05:19 PM
I'm just a little curious though about the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. results. It says that the benchmark is using DX11. The $750 system is being evaluated there but is using HD4xxx video cards. How are you getting results for DX11 for that build? Anyway, great job as always guys! Although, I would have to say that to me the winning PC would be the $1500 OC as it was capable of staring down the $3k box and not flinch. Of course, I also say it because I have a 24" monitor and the $750 rig just doesn't cut it there unfortunately. Lastly, in one of the articles you guys asked if you should go back to the old $500/$1k/$2k builds. I think you guys are now in the new "sweet spots" for PC now. $750-$800/$1200-$1500/$2500-Obscene are good ranges these days. Hmm... maybe the "Obscene" should be a forth "bonus" build
Score
2
schwizer
March 19, 2010 12:22:10 PM
coldmast
March 19, 2010 1:01:17 PM
huron
March 19, 2010 1:54:13 PM
CBaca
March 19, 2010 2:12:45 PM
maydaynomore
March 19, 2010 2:22:30 PM
dlochinski
March 19, 2010 3:02:25 PM
Quote:
The rules for the giveaway state that you DO NOT get the assembled PC, but the parts instead. I wonder why that is. Can someone from Toms comment on this?Probably for shipping purposes. Shipping as is would be iffy, and plus, this is a SYSTEM BULDERS marathon, so it wouldn't make since to send the pc built already
Score
1
triculious
March 19, 2010 3:24:28 PM
Great marathon this time. While the most expensive builds have nearly never interested me due to budget constrains, this time the cheapest one is a hell of a machine!
Usually I set for the 'enthusiast' build, but this marathon brought up a real champion of the masses with the 750 build.
With a little budget Paul achieved what should be the core of the SBM series: the best performance on a given budget.
Mind you: not awesome synthetics that almost never translate into real world performance, not best bang/buck with cramped performance... real value where it really matters.
Grats to Paul and here's to waiting for the next SBM, you've set a really high bar here, mister.
Usually I set for the 'enthusiast' build, but this marathon brought up a real champion of the masses with the 750 build.
With a little budget Paul achieved what should be the core of the SBM series: the best performance on a given budget.
Mind you: not awesome synthetics that almost never translate into real world performance, not best bang/buck with cramped performance... real value where it really matters.
Grats to Paul and here's to waiting for the next SBM, you've set a really high bar here, mister.
Score
0
heartburnkid
March 19, 2010 3:56:38 PM
soulbro
March 19, 2010 4:51:34 PM
notty22
March 19, 2010 4:51:59 PM
I enjoyed the whole series. Heres MY solution for a ultimate bargain rig. Use the case,psu,gpu's,ddr3 from the 750 build. Replace with Intel i5 750, and GA-P55A-UD4P. That would raise your costs about 150.00 dollars. Not counting a possible combo savings.
Use your hsf money for a h50-1 corsair self contained water unit.
Build
Conquer
Relish and enjoy
Use your hsf money for a h50-1 corsair self contained water unit.
Build
Conquer
Relish and enjoy
Score
-4
I've entered, of course. If I had no other parts, I'd be happy with any of them as they are (although I'd probably only use one video card, since my games aren't extremely demanding). I have other parts though, including an Antec SG-650 which I could use in any of these (with one video card), and an Intel 80GB SSD, which I would use to retain TRIM support. Any extra video card, PSU, and/or 64GB SSD I would find a way to give away, I think to a non-USA person who would have been excluded from the contest (provided no law would be broken).
Score
-1
sojrner
March 19, 2010 5:38:18 PM
bustaprI hope u guys start selling PCs on Newegg. "THG SMB Gaming PCs", I would like to buy that $750 PC, already built at that price or similar. It would save me alot of trouble building and ordering parts and it will become an instant best seller. You guys can destroy cyberpower and alienware and others. Paul Henningson, you can get rich fast.
...he would not get rich selling that system for $750, that's for sure. You have wages and other overhead when you are building. Putting together a "Tom's SBM 750" build list on newegg is another thing. It would no longer be a $750 system if the did any more than sell us the parts. How easy would it be to sell a "Tom's $750" system for $1000 do you think? (have no idea what overhead and profit req's would need for a final price, but you get the idea)
Just letting you know man, nothing is for free. ;-)
Score
0
flyinfinni
March 19, 2010 5:46:06 PM
Wow- Absolutely FANTASTIC performance from the $750 machine. I just built a very similar machine for my wife only using my old 4870 instead of the 4850's, but was also able to unlock the 4th core no problem Absolutely fantastic value as I had a few leftover parts I could reuse, so I ended up paying about $350 for the whole machine. Heck of a value. I'm loving these cheap AMD processors- nothing Intel has can match the price/performance of the Athlon II's!
Score
0
Crashman
March 19, 2010 6:40:54 PM
JEVERSONI'm just a little curious though about the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. results. It says that the benchmark is using DX11.
DX11 was the default setting, which of course was unavailable in the older graphics cards of the $750 machine. It might not look increadibly better, but DX11 is actually one of the not-so-noticeable benefits of using a newer graphics card.maydaynomoreThe rules for the giveaway state that you DO NOT get the assembled PC, but the parts instead. I wonder why that is. Can someone from Toms comment on this?
The system's are either completey disassembled or partially disassembled to reduce the risk of damage during shippping. The fact that I can't tell you more should be telling in itself. Score
0
curnel_D
March 19, 2010 7:18:06 PM
Ok, this is just my opinion. Blatant Console ports such as MW2 should not be included in the benchmark suite. Games like this were built to run well on hardware such as a tri-core PPC procc, and 5 generation old video hardware. There's no point to 'testing' it on new PC's, we can already guess how they'll run.
Score
0
SpeedyVV
March 19, 2010 7:59:18 PM
masterasia
March 19, 2010 7:59:22 PM
The sweet spot right is around the $1500 mark. If you waste any more money than that, performance gains start to suck, especially if you start wasting it on water cooling. I'm a video and photo guy so my i7 920 is perfect for doing all my renderings. I'm not gonna pay another $1000 to gain a few extra seconds with the i7 980X. I have 2 GTX 260 in SLI for when I do play games, but I'm not gonna get the $700 GTX 480 if all my games are already running smooth. I would like the latest and greatest, but right now, I rather invest in my camera. It's got a higher resale value and doesn't depreciate as fast. $700 video cards are nothing when you're talking about $1500 just for a lens.
Score
0
majorgeek
March 19, 2010 8:03:35 PM
megamanx00
March 19, 2010 8:05:17 PM
I was very surprised by the 750 machine put together this time around. It's just too bad that the price of the 5750 isn't low enough to take the place of the two 4850s without increase the budget a little. True there are only a few DX11 games now, but they are coming. I guess it's a hard choice for a budget gamer to choose between a 5770 with eye infinity and DX11, or the superior performance of two 4850s in crossfire.
Anyway, good builds this time around. The $1500 PC proves to be a balanced machine and exceptional choice of components.
Anyway, good builds this time around. The $1500 PC proves to be a balanced machine and exceptional choice of components.
Score
0
quixoticism
March 19, 2010 8:46:55 PM
I always look forward to these system builder marathons. It's great to see what kind of performance you can get for your money these days.
There's one thing that I feel is missing that I was looking forward to seeing in this wrap-up.
The $3000 system was given a Raid-0 SSD array while the other two had regular hard drives.
I think that a quick overview of load times of the OS as well as the games and other benchmarks used for all the systems would be needed so that we can see the benefit and reason behind that choice in hardware selection.
There's one thing that I feel is missing that I was looking forward to seeing in this wrap-up.
The $3000 system was given a Raid-0 SSD array while the other two had regular hard drives.
I think that a quick overview of load times of the OS as well as the games and other benchmarks used for all the systems would be needed so that we can see the benefit and reason behind that choice in hardware selection.
Score
1
quixoticism
March 19, 2010 8:47:18 PM
noobie1
March 19, 2010 11:00:41 PM
Quote:
Wasting...you know without water cooling the expensive system would have probably been limited to performance roughly equal to the $1500 system right?Well yes, most of the extra money spent doesn't really help benchmarks, do they? Same processor and ram.
Blu-Ray +170 - no effect on benchmark
Case +90 - just a case no effect on benchmarks. maybe slightly better cooling??
SSD + 402 - little effect on benchmarks I think, at least not FPS but will affect load times.
That's 660 right there with little effect on benchmarks.
Then
Motherboard +190 - Maybe better overclocks, and extras like USB3.0 etc but big effect on performance?
PSU + 110 - once you meet the minimum power, performance is flat, but extra headway allows higher overclock. Can we have made do with less?
So we're up to 960 with the balance really on the GPU and watercooling.
+190 on the water cooling to allow higher overclocks is probably one of the better bang for buck with regard to the benchmarks.
To summarise, 1500 does seem to be the sweet spot. But you can't look at benchmarks only, the other extras have some value (albeit maybe not 1500 worth)
Score
0
Yuka
March 19, 2010 11:04:09 PM
Ok, impressive as usual, but there's one thing I find a little unfair here:
SSD's and RAID not being benchmarked and added to the final charts. The time they save you might also cost money (power, cost opportunity and maybe more) and should be added IMO. That's being biased to some "performance" metrics, a thing I don't like and Tom's don't like either
Great article non the less and keep up the awsome work!
Cheers!
SSD's and RAID not being benchmarked and added to the final charts. The time they save you might also cost money (power, cost opportunity and maybe more) and should be added IMO. That's being biased to some "performance" metrics, a thing I don't like and Tom's don't like either
Great article non the less and keep up the awsome work!
Cheers!
Score
0
Shin-san
March 19, 2010 11:06:01 PM
boletus
March 20, 2010 1:42:32 AM
Shin-sanI would love Tomshardware to try to tackle a way to make a $299 PC (no monitor, with and without an OS)
I too would like to see how low Tom's can go and still get a machine that could play some games, and maybe include a list of games that could not be played maybe. Or even just a general-purpose rig for internet, videos, etc. How cheap is too cheap? That is a question I've been asked.
I build only as a hobby, but I have been asked if I could build a machine as cheaply as the ultra-cheapo rigs you see advertised. My answer is, "probably not," or "You wouldn't want to own that PC anyway."
I do think the $750 minimum is realistic for a new gaming PC. If one's budget is much less than that, playing most modern titles could be disappointing, and games yet to come even more so.
But how low can we set the bar? I guess we must assume the machine will be capable of running Windows, with enough power left to run the most popular applications. Can a DIY'er build a functional PC for less than HP or emachines? Include monitor, keyboard, etc too, so we get the big picture.
This might be a genuine service to people that are on the borderline of being able to afford a PC. Include the man-hours spent, so we would know if it was really worth the effort.
Score
1
sojrner
March 20, 2010 2:33:41 PM
maydaynomoreThe rules for the giveaway state that you DO NOT get the assembled PC, but the parts instead. I wonder why that is. Can someone from Toms comment on this?
dlochinskiProbably for shipping purposes. Shipping as is would be iffy, and plus, this is a SYSTEM BULDERS marathon, so it wouldn't make since to send the pc built already
Bingo. That is why we even read these articles is to see what can be built, not what can be bought. Plus, newegg (the sponsor of these SBMs) is a parts seller, not a system seller.
Score
0
JohnnyLucky
March 20, 2010 3:50:28 PM
brennon7
March 20, 2010 5:46:23 PM
soliloquist
March 20, 2010 6:35:45 PM
Anonymous
March 20, 2010 11:57:49 PM
Crashman
March 21, 2010 12:42:16 AM
draknarThis $750 rig surprised me on how stood up to other systems.
That's right, and it's not for "not trying" on the other builders: The $1500 system used a very effective oversized CPU cooler, and the $3000 system was even pushed to 4.3 GHz. This just proves how relatively poor the value is for high-end computers.
Score
0
caamsa
March 21, 2010 5:56:33 PM
Crashman
March 21, 2010 8:28:30 PM
pauldh
March 21, 2010 9:13:15 PM
caamsaDid you guys experience any issues with the unlocked overclocked X3 435 during the testing? any at all? It was 100% stable the entire time?
Yup, as Thomas said, this is a must for our SBM OCs. We owe that to the readers and each other. Zero issues were encountered with the unlocked/OCed $750 PC. Otherwise you the readers would have heard about it and tests rerun with a less aggressive (fully stable) OC.
Score
0
billiardicus
March 22, 2010 3:00:57 PM
Tom's,
Great builds. You guys are really making me rethink my previous belief that 2 GPU's are a bad idea. The $750 system is an absolute beast and an unbelievable value. I'm also really impressed with the $1500 system. As usual, the $3000 system is a waste of money (sure would like to win it though haha).
Anyway, these articles again prove that high end PC gaming doesn't cost that much.
Great builds. You guys are really making me rethink my previous belief that 2 GPU's are a bad idea. The $750 system is an absolute beast and an unbelievable value. I'm also really impressed with the $1500 system. As usual, the $3000 system is a waste of money (sure would like to win it though haha).
Anyway, these articles again prove that high end PC gaming doesn't cost that much.
Score
0
jonpaul37
March 22, 2010 4:22:44 PM
BigFan
March 22, 2010 6:13:55 PM
Where is the love for Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the 16X AA, HBAO? Seems to me benchmarking anything but crysis, dirt2,heaven DX11, and BFBC2 test is a waste of time. Might as well bench mark COD4/COD5 too. Just on my modern war hate path. Great job as always, just want to see games that take these systems to it knees.
Score
0
BigFan
March 22, 2010 6:23:42 PM
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