Time to build a new system?

[Battledad]

Running an AMD x2 4400 cpu; raptor hd; 8800gts; 4 gig of ram on a wireless "N" network. Play mostly MMO's and XP Pro.

Thinking of an Intel 8400 Core 2; 4 gig ram; 640gig WD HD; either twin 4850's in X-Fire or a single 4850x2; 750w PS but Vista 64 Home for the OS.

Questions:

1) Worth spending the money to build this system over what I run now?

2) Which mobo?

3) Twin 4850's or single 4850x2?

What else?

 

[slomo4sho]

If your playing WoW then the upgrade will not net in a noticable improvement. In fact, for most of the MMO's currently out, the upgrade would be minimal performance boost at best.

The only possible bottleneck I would see would be the CPU, you might want to spend ~$90 to get a AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ if your motherboard can support it.

BTW, what size is your monitor?

 

[Battledad]

Using a 19" at 1280x1024 atm. Been having issues with WAR and battles.

 

[slomo4sho]

Your CPU is the bottleneck...

Any kind of crossfire just gives about a 10% performance increase. If you do decide to go with the Intel build, I would recommend going with a single 1gb 4870.

 

[aevm]

Your CPU is the bottleneck...

Any kind of crossfire just gives about a 10% performance increase. If you do decide to go with the Intel build, I would recommend going with a single 1gb 4870.

Where did you get that info?

Look at these benchmarks for FEAR at 1280x1024:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/12.html
9800GT 125 fps (that's pretty close to the 8800GTS)
HD 4850 161 fps
HD 4850 X2 270 fps

270 compared to 161 is a 67.7% increase, not 10%.

If he spends $200 on a 22" monitor and plays at 1680x1050 then the difference becomes 181 fps compared to 97 fps, i.e. 86%.

Or this one, for CoD4:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/6.html
9800GT 79 fps
HD 4850 91 fps
HD 4850 X2 120 fps
120 compared to 91 is a 32% increase.

Even in Crysis, probably the worst programmed game ever, the difference between HD 4850 and HD 4850 X2 is 37.1 to 42.4 i.e. 14%.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/9.html

OK, the HD 4870 X2 is not just HD 4850 Crossfire, it also has extra RAM. However, I don't think that extra RAM can explain these differences.

 

[ragsters]

Is your mobo a 939 socket?

 

[slomo4sho]

Guess maybe I should have said was that either a 4850x2 or a crossfired 4850 will only give about a 10% performance boost over a 1gb 4870...

Also at the same website as aevm linked, all in 1280x1024 resolution:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/10.html
In Quake Wars:
9800GT 134.9 fps
HD 4850 143.4 fps
HD 4850X2 163.0 fps
HD 4870 160.7 fps

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/18.html
Unreal Tourney 3:
9800GT 133.6 fps
HD 4850 133.3 fps
HD 4850X2 163.8 fps
HD 4870 141.6 fps

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4850_X2/9.html
Crysis:
9800GT 32.6 fps
HD 4850 37.1 fps
HD 4850X2 42.4 fps
HD 4870 47.5 fps

Bear in mind that in the comparison above the 4850x2 has 2 gigs of ram vs the 4870s 512mb of ram.

A 1gb 4870 will cost $100 less than a 4850x2 or 2x 1gb 4850s.

 

[Battledad]

I am indeed using a 939 socket so upgrading the cpu is not an option. That's why I assumed (but neglected to state in the original post...sorry) that upgrading might make sense.

I'm considering ther Corer 2 Duo rather than the Quad because nothing I deal with will use the quad. A good cpu that allows the video subset to work first rate seems to make more sense to me and thus the 4850x2 (2 cards or one) seems to make the most sense for the money spent.

 

[Battledad]

After we settle on the gpu which mobo for 2xq16 crossfire slots? I'm thinking that I should stick with an intel Core 2 Duo processor but is the Phenom quad going to do the job?

Am I best off spending my $$$ on a good amd cpu and crossfire mobo and go with the 4850 approach? Which direction is the best bang for the buck and will last 2 good years?

 

[aevm]

Read these articles:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1472/intel_p45_vs_x48_crossfire_performance/index.html
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=775&p=2

Let's say you're planning to get a HD 4870 1GB card now, and add a second one later.

With Intel, you'd need something like E8500 or Q6600 and an X48 motherboard. E.g. Q6600+GA-X48-DS4 = $180+$220 at Newegg, total $400
With AMD, a Phenom 9950/M3A79-T combo costs $170+$190 = $360. There's also the K9A2 Platinum, $130, and your total goes to $300.
Both combinations do Crossfire at full 16x+16x, avoiding bottlenecks. The Q6600 beats the Phenom 9950 in some benchmarks and loses in others.

Based on this, I'd say go with AMD.

However, there's a problem with this logic. That is, if you are quite sure you want Crossfire, and you have all the money right away, you can get a double card like the HD 4850 X2 or HD 4870 X2 or 9800GX2, which actually costs less than two HD 4870 cards together, and that removes the need for an expensive X48 too. You'd be able to get a $120 MB like the GA-EP45-UD3P for example, without worrying about bottlenecks.

 

[Battledad]

So if one went with single 4850x2 dual gpu card then which mobo to go with?

 

[Battledad]

So a quad core Intel cpu with a 4850x2 or a 4870x2 single card makes for a nice package....and one only needs to worry about a mobo with a single x16 slot. Hmmmm....now to search for the right mobo.

 

[Battledad]

4850x2 Original Price: $429.99 You Save: $20.00 $409.99 ($389.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate pdf )
at Newegg. Sapphire (the only 4850x2 I can find so far). Works out to $145 per 4850.

 

[aevm]

What do you want from a mobo? Pick a P45, but make sure it has the features you need. For example GA-EP45-DS3L is cheap, but has no RAID, no second PCI-E x16 slot, etc. The P5Q Pro has 8 SATA ports (useful if you want lots of hard disks).

A little warning here, if you get the HD 4850 X2 or two HD 4850 cards you better have good cooling. Have you picked a case yet?

 

[slomo4sho]

The 4850x2 has 2 gigs of ram which means 1 gig per core. Your comparing the 512mb 4850 price to that of double 1gb 4850s. The 1gb 4850 will run you around $180-200.

BTW, don't count on having Sapphire honor the MIR.

 

[Battledad]

Lets' see if I can answer the open questions:

1: How many HD's do I want? A single with enough space to game that won't hinder performance

2: RAID? Not needed

3: Case? I ahve an NZXT Apollo that's sitting here. Would need to add a 120mm fan in the front. It has one side and one rear + the PS fan. That would give me 3 120's

4: 4850x2 vs 2 single's: Good point about the RAM

So it, as always, boils down to AMD Phenom Quad or Intel DC or Quad + 1 or two cards and whether they are 4xxx for the NVidia 2xx series. If I go with a single 4850 to start and then add another if needed I keep flexibility, minimize up-front cost but keep my options open. That would likely mean going with an x48 mobo.

 

[aevm]

All right. Look at the Asus P5E Deluxe or the Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 then. For the PSU a PC Power & Cooling 610W ($70 at Newegg) would do, or a Corsair 650TX ($80).

 

[Battledad]

The Gigabyte mobo uses 1.1v memory. Most of the DDR2 appears to run around 2.1v. Wonder if there are any issues with using 2.1v? I assume one can crank it up in bios but any other issues?

 

[aevm]

What, the GA-X48-DS4? Here's a trick for you. Go to newegg's page and read the user reviews for the MB. When you find one with 5 eggs and it says which RAM they're using, it's most likely safe to buy the same RAM.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813128336

1.1V memory??? The JEDEC standard is 1.8V. DDR2 RAM is usually advertised between 1.8 and 2.2. I'm guessing that 1.1 is a typo...

 

[Battledad]

Meant 1.8v not 1.1.