Die hard Amd Fan Machine :)

[reteP777]

Hi All, im new here, I and thought I would start-of with some questions about a new AMD computer system, that im about to build. I haven't actually built the machine yet, still waiting for the hardware components, which will arrive by mail in a couple of days

Since i have been away from the computer build, upgrade and overclocking scene, for some time now, i have some catching up to do.

I already have a Atx pc-tower, thermaltake armor, a 750W PSU and two older Hd's ; Western Digital Raptor 74 GB SATA 1.5Gb/s 10.000RPM I will keep these until I can afford something better. The hd's will be swapped with either a WD VelociRaptor® 300GB SATA 10000RPM, 16MB, 3 GB/s hd or a Crucial RealSSD C300 2,5" 256GB SATA 6 Gb/s, 355MB/215MB sec read/write ssd. When I can afford one that is, they are real expensive.. in fact the ssd will cost approx. the same as all the new hardware components put together

These are the new components I have ordered:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE, Gigabyte GA-790FXTA-UD5,Socket-AM3 ,Sapphire Radeon HD 5830 1GB GDDR5 and Corsair XMS3 DHX DDR3 1333MHz 4GB CL9 Kit w/2x 2GB XMS3 modules, CL9-9-9-24

"My mission" is non-other than to get rid'of all the bottlenecks in this system, so that I'll will run at it's Optimal peek of Performance speed possible.

The obvious bottlenecks will then be the graphics card and the Ram. I will not run it in Crossfire atfirst, since I only bought one card. I will eventually run it with 2 Graphics cards in 16 - 16( I guess identical graphics cards are the best way to go, correct me if i'm wrong) , since with 3 cards it will run 16-8-8. What graphics cards would best fit this mobo?, and the other hardware components i have specified above?

My mobo will be a Gigabyte GA-790FXTA-UD5, and I have read that its somewhat troublesome to get it to run in 1866mhz in OC. I picked the Ram mainly because it's speed is 10666, which is the "limmit" for this mobo,..or is it? Ive read that people use memory with speeds up to 12800, which is either 1600mhz or 1866mhz Ram, but in OC. As far as ive seen, many are having trouble getting it to run in 1866mhz, and have to clock it backwards, or make it run at it's specified speed, to make it work properly. So, back to my question, was it a mistake to buy this 1333mhz ram for this mobo? Should i have gone for something better like the 12800 speed ram at stock speed 1866mhz`? Is it possible clock the ram higher from 1333mhz to 1866mhz?, im guessing no.. The main reason for buying this Ram was that i couldn't afford any better.. but it looked decent enough.

If anybody have ANY ideas of elimenating ANY obvious bottlenecks on this system,or any bright ideas for making it run as fast as possible within the specs of THIS MOBO, and the other hardware(also if this means that I will have to buy new and better hardware components to make it, EXCEPT the Mobo and CPU, they stay :lol: ) without having it starting a fire and burning the house down , please do tell, any input is appreciated, Thx in advance

ps: no jokes about buying a Intel system please


Peter

 

[Lmeow]

1. Don't get a 300GB VelociRaptor. Just get a Samsung Spinpoint F3 instead, those things are really fast, and are a lot cheaper. Their performance is similar, and for 1TB, $89.99 is a bargain. SSDs are acceptable, those things are lightning fast compared to HDDs. Whether they're worth it or not, I wouldn't know, but I know that it's much better to get a F3 than a VR.

2. As for graphic cards, running any card in an 8x PCI-e lane, apart from the HD4870X2, HD4850X2, HD5970 and the GTX 295 will not suffer much bottlenecking at all, if any. I wouldn't get the HD 5830, I'd get the HD 5850 instead for $60 more, the performance increase is justified. The HD 5830 performs around the same as an HD 4890, but costs $40 more.

3. High RAM speeds aren't very noticeable compared to latencies. You're much better off with PC3-10666/1333MHz RAM and just simply lowering the latencies to for example, 6-6-6-18 or 7-7-7-19, rather than running it at 1866MHz 9-9-9-24. You can overclock RAM by a bit, but generally not by much because unlike processors, they are specified and or designed to operate at that speed, and won't go much further than that. Frankly, the difference between 1333MHz and 1866MHz can't really be seen unless you purposely benchmark it.

4. There aren't any major bottlenecks by looking at your system. However, if you do decide to run another HD 5850, your Phenom II X4 965 will hold the CrossFireX system back a bit, compared to an i7. I know you're not going to want an Intel system, but I just thought you might like to know.

 

[reteP777]

Thank you for your reply Lmeow, I really appreciated your input. So I guess that the graphics card would be the biggest drawback with this system then. I have already ordered the HD 5830, but its fully possible to return it again, within 14days, and perhaps go for a better graphics card like the Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0,"VAPOR-X", 2xDVI-I, HDMI, w/ DisplayPort, Full-Retail.
..But, do you also think that the latest AMD Cpu available, the Phenom II X4 965, will be to slow running two graphics cards in crossfireX. How about two HD 5870 in crossfirex, will this be an even worse strain for this Cpu, and that it can't keep up?? Because eventually I wanted a system I would be able to upgrade to at least two HD 5870 In crossfireX.

Best regards

Peter

 

[brennon7]

Ditch the 5830 and def get the 5850. If they won't let you return it, put it on ebay and cut your losses. The 5830 will be holding your whole system back.

 

[Lmeow]

Thank you for your reply Lmeow, I really appreciated your input. So I guess that the graphics card would be the biggest drawback with this system then. I have already ordered the HD 5830, but its fully possible to return it again, within 14days, and perhaps go for a better graphics card like the Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0,"VAPOR-X", 2xDVI-I, HDMI, w/ DisplayPort, Full-Retail.
..But, do you also think that the latest AMD Cpu available, the Phenom II X4 965, will be to slow running two graphics cards in crossfireX. How about two HD 5870 in crossfirex, will this be an even worse strain for this Cpu, and that it can't keep up?? Because eventually I wanted a system I would be able to upgrade to at least two HD 5870 In crossfireX.

Best regards

Peter

Two HD 5870s will be held back by an AMD Phenom II X4 965, compared to an i7 920 for example, but by how much depends on the game. Some games you will see a massive difference, others not so much. I definitely say return the HD 5830, and get the HD 5850, or HD 5870 if you have the money. (The HD 5850 is the best high-end bang for buck graphic card right now.) Two HD 5850s in CrossFireX will perform the same as an HD 5970, which would pretty much max nearly every game on a 1080p resolution.

 

[reteP777]

It won't be any problems returning it again, other than beeing without a Pc system for two weeks or so, and the shipping expenses of course.. Its the most expensive hardware component, compared to the other hardware im buying. If I return it, time will pass, and i would be able to afford the even better HD 5870. But my question would now be, will the Cpu; Phenom II X4 965, be to "slow"? and become the bottleneck in this system? If I run CrossfireX with two HD 5870?

 

[brennon7]

I think it might perform better than an i7 on some games. Your cpu shouldn't be a problem, if it is too slow, just overclock it. That board has two x16 slots for graphic cards so bottlenecking is not going to be a problem.

 

[reteP777]

Thx for all you help, i think i have no other choice now, than to return the HD5830 card, when i get it. The difference in price between the HD5830 and the HD5850 is next to nothing really. So its an good candidate.

I think perhaps the HD5870 would be better instead, its more expensive than the HD5850,but not that much. It could be worth it. But would two of these HD5870 in crossfireX, be a waste? because of the amd Cpu?

I don't mind comparing amd and intel systems, because i still want an amd system. Just wanted to get to know about the limmitations, and what would be a wase or not, if you understand my meaning.

 

[reteP777]

I will round of this "all nighter" with these last questions concerning the graphics card and Ram. Im still unsure if i also should try for better Ram as well. Especially now since ive decided to go for a better graphics card. It wont cost me anything extra, other than the differencial between the components, since i 've already decided to return the graphics card, I could also return the ram aswell if the preformance would benefit enough from it contra the price difference involved.

My question is; if im going for the HD5870, should I go for the Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0,"VAPOR-X", 2xDVI-I, HDMI, DisplayPort, Full-Retail

(this card has a clockspeed at 875 MHz, RAMDAC-clockspeed at 400 MHz and Memory Clock Speed at 1.25 GHz)

""Or""

XFX Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0, "XXX", 2xDVI-I, HDMI, DisplayPort, 875MHz

(This card also has a clockspeed at 875 MHz, could't find any RAMDAC-clockspeed measurements on this one, why is that?, the Memory Clock Speed is at whopping 5,2 GHz)?!

is this wrong? 1.25 vs 5.2Ghz, what happend to ramdac measurements on the xfx card? i feel like a noob again 4 asking ..


both cards cost approx the same, the xfx cost alittle more, but is it much better than the Sapphire modell? I get confused..
so to my next question; what kind of Ram would do nicely with this New package, taken in concideration the two graphics cards, from which I have to choose One. Or will still the Corsair XMS3 DHX DDR3 1333MHz 4GB Ram, be sufficiant..?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated

Now I really have to get to bed, ill check the forum first thing, when I wake. Thx for all help so far guys

I hope this information also will be of use for other Fans like myself

End transmission

 

[anonymousdude]

You won't need two 5870's unless you plan on playing at 2560x1600, otherwise at 1920x1080 and below its overkill and you'd be better off saving the money. I recommend you get the 5850 and OC it to get it to perform similarly to a 5870.

a stock 5870's memory clock is 1200mhz. That is then multiplied by four becasue of GDDR5 to get to 4.8. The xfx you listed has a minor 100mhz oc to the memory clock making it 5.2 effective.

 

[saaiello]

Id say ditch the biggest bottleneck you have the Phenom.

Nah just yanking your chain. :lol:

Like the others said no point in getting them raptors I used to have Raptors and I got the spinpoint F3s in Raid 0 and it quick as hell.

 

[cobot]

Don't worry about the RAMDAC, it's not relevant - almost always 400 Mhz on modern cards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAMDAC

 

[reteP777]

Thank you all for your insightful advice. Having read some reviews about the Samsung Spinpoint F3, this seems like a very good bargin. Im getting one This will be a good enough Hd for me, to start with. I find info about it supporting visa and windows 7, but how about win xp pro?, since I currently only have this Os available. This brings me to my next question. Will this system work without any major drawbacks, with a win xp pro sp3 as OS? Im getting windows 7 eventually.

With all the high specs hardware components today, I find myself loosing myself with desire for the best of the best. I almost forget why I did choose an AMD system in the first place, its because one gets alot of Bang for the buck.

 

[Shadow703793]

^ The F3s are good, but usually they are sold out. And yes, it will work with XP.

 

[reteP777]

Best answer selected by reteP777.