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ATI or Nvidia

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December 21, 2008 10:48:46 AM

I'm looking into to upgrade my computer, I have 2 motherboards that are the same but different on board cards, both are biostars both are dual core and have ddr2. one has a ati hd2100 and the other has nvidia 8100, which is better to buy? and should I get a bigger power supply other than my coolmax 400watt?

More about : ati nvidia

a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2008 12:31:42 PM

Sorry dude, if you ever need a VGA, they are both going to let you down big time. If you don't intend to game, then it doesn't really matter which one you're going for. As for being dual core, i take it you mean they are compatible with dual core processors (which only means they aren't more then four years old). DDR2 and dual core is plain mainstream, any motherboard should do at least that much.
If you are on a low budget, I suggest you focus on your CPU (and VGA if you intend to game on this setup) instead of the motherboard. This way, you will have a decent machine and will be able to play games. The only use I can see for an onboard VGA is if you don't intend to play, or if you just want to use the machine until you can afford a real VGA.
December 21, 2008 12:42:34 PM

What kind of budget do you have?
Related resources
December 21, 2008 12:46:26 PM

LOL you name your thread ATI v Nvidia you'll get flamers:) 


We need details of ur system. Exact:) 

CPU
RAM
Motherboard
PSU name...the wattage doesn't say much
December 21, 2008 12:55:53 PM

ok I have a biostar windows xp pro sp3 Chipset : VIA P4M800CE a Processor : Intel Pentium 4 @ 2600 MHz 1.5 gig memory pc400, 250 gig sata hardrive, 160 usb hardrive usb2.0. ati powercolor x1650 pro ddr2 512mb agp video card version 3.5. direct x 10. from pc wizard its says this.

Mainboard : Unspecified P4M800CE-8237
Chipset : VIA P4M800CE
Processor : Intel Pentium 4 @ 2600 MHz
Physical Memory : 1536 MB
Video Card : Radeon X1650 Series
Hard Disk : WDC (250 GB)
Hard Disk : CBM (1 GB)
Hard Disk : WDC (160 GB)
DVD-Rom Drive : ATAPI DVD A DH20A4P
CD-Rom Drive : ATAPI-CD ROM-DRIVE-56MAX
DVD-Rom Drive : WDCF WTU3S5UFCXQ SCSI CdRom Device
DVD-Rom Drive : WDCF WTU3S5UFCXQ SCSI CdRom Device
DVD-Rom Drive : WDCF WTU3S5UFCXQ SCSI CdRom Device
DVD-Rom Drive : WDCF WTU3S5UFCXQ SCSI CdRom Device
Monitor Type : Hewlett Packard HP w17e - 17 inches
Network Card : VT82C570 MV IDE Controller VT6102 Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter
Operating System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3
DirectX : Version 10.00


December 21, 2008 12:58:37 PM

can only afford about 200 right now, should I just upgrade to a ati hd series? I have a hp w17e wid screen LCD monitor.
December 21, 2008 12:59:04 PM

well I'll stop u right there

AGP video card

The best card money can buy for the system is a ATI 3650. Even then I think the CPU might bottleneck it.

Compared to the PCI-express Cards out now...that card is bad, but compared to the X1650 you'll see a pretty decent improvement.

If possible and it fits your budget, I'd try for a new system. But if it doesnt, then the 3650 is the best you can go.

December 21, 2008 1:01:23 PM

Try to buy a new system, I mean even though that card will show you improvements, it won't be able to max out most of the recent games, and struggles even with Cod 4 maxxed.

So really it depends how much you game, if you want to play any of the recent ones, i'd say go higher.

Unless playing on Low doesn't bother you, and even then i think there might be a struggle.
December 21, 2008 1:14:31 PM

so dont bother on upgrading the motherboard? the motherboard is a mobo deal at 114 and 124. later on ill get a pcie card.
December 21, 2008 1:16:21 PM

I play games like dead space works ok but the sound repeats alot like echos, I have a sound blaster live pci card, I also play world at war, bit slow but its playable at medium/slow
December 21, 2008 1:22:06 PM

My suggestion would be upgrading your motherboard to atleast one that supports PCI express.

That way you have options for more video cards. You can find cheaper Pci-express cards that are alot better than the 3650.
December 21, 2008 1:26:17 PM

It takes alot of commitment, but it pays off in the end. I mean you might think it costs more than just buying the video card, but it pays off alot more for the price/performance in the end.

All you need is a decent CPU, video card and sensible ran with a 9800 GT (8800 GT) or w.e around the 100-150$ mark, and you've got a gaming system for current games.
December 21, 2008 1:46:25 PM

well let me ask you, I have the choice of either getting the mobo deal, biostar with a am+2 64x2 4400 with 2 pci 1 pci x and 1 pci expressx16 with 1 gig of pc800 with a nvidia 8100 chipset or the same with a ati HD2100 chip set, or get a HD3650 with the system I already have. what do you think would be best with my budget,Its not like I play alot of fancy games, but I want it to be able to play world at war and dead space.
December 21, 2008 1:55:04 PM

travismontana said:
can only afford about 200 right now, should I just upgrade to a ati hd series? I have a hp w17e wid screen LCD monitor.


Screw that, buy a bigger screen!!!
December 21, 2008 2:25:43 PM

Wtf is the point of buying a bigger screen if he doesn't have the graphic power to back it up? Do you think before u speak?:) 

ummm how much is he charging? you be alot better off than the current system you have.

You'll be able to play world at war with almost any card, but just not max on some. So make sure you kno what you want, eye candy or just playable.

So your budget is 200$ well, how much is he/she chargin for the gear you mentioned?
December 21, 2008 2:55:04 PM

L1qu1d said:
Wtf is the point of buying a bigger screen if he doesn't have the graphic power to back it up? Do you think before u speak?:) 

ummm how much is he charging? you be alot better off than the current system you have.

You'll be able to play world at war with almost any card, but just not max on some. So make sure you kno what you want, eye candy or just playable.

So your budget is 200$ well, how much is he/she chargin for the gear you mentioned?


You should chill and take your own advice. Of course he needs to upgrade his hardware but the equipment he mentioned will be overkill for the screen size he's using. A 17 inch screen, even a wide screen version does not need a 3650 video card. It's max resolution his screen is pushing is 1440x900. Hardly a difficult setting. The two main games he plays are already served with his current hardware. If anything he could use another gig of memory and a cheap AGP upgrade graphic card. So why not a bigger screen? That will serve him a lot longer and give him more enjoyment until he can save up to buy a full system upgrade.
December 21, 2008 3:01:37 PM

oh yeah ur right....I can barely run Crysis @ 1280x1024, and same with GTA 4, and I have 3 280s:) 

So really no it wouldn't be overkill. Far Cry2? 1280x1024 I get around 60 fps

No it wouldn't serve him, the 3650 is a weaker card than my 9700M GTS, alot weaker, and I can barely run COD4 @ around 40-50 fps with out AA.

and my resolution is 1440x900.
So really no, his primary thing would be to update his hardware... dual CPu, faster ram.

And as he mentioned he wants COD5, which is slightly more upgraded than COd4, even though its the same engine. Also if its dead for space that he wants to play, Nvidia is the better choice, since it can double the ATI choices

Honestly leave the screen for later. Upgrade the hardware and worry about screen size after you kno your computer's power.

3650?

Look at what the cheaper 9600 GT can do compared to it:



The 3650 still runs for 100+ here, while you can find the 9600 GT OC BFG for 90$ after MIR.

From reviews this card is bascially a 8600 GT...and that card flopped even in 2007...what will it do in 09?

Granted he needs a monitor soon, but theres no point if he is going to stay with a 3650, considering the card struggles 1280x1024.

Thats should do it.

Now to OP, see if you can increase your budget slightly, you can get X3 phenoms for around 100$ now, which are decent price. I think around 300$ you can do something decent enough, but it might not include the new video card.

I'm not really the low budget person lol, I save then spend:p  I'm sure there are more ppl on this forum that will agree with me and help you more with budget systems.
December 21, 2008 3:06:21 PM

ok so get a better video card and ram for now until I save up for a new rig? or should I buy the new motherboard combo that comes with a gig and a amd 64x2 core cpu? like i said I dont have alot of money right now but by march I will enough to get a new system like a bare bone kit from tigerdirect or gearxs.
December 21, 2008 3:10:28 PM

Look before things get all heated and puffed up the bottom line is that an upgraded is needed. You gave him one opinion and I gave him and alternate opinion, so we don't agree. So what? I didn't stomp all of your original suggestion like you did mine. You stated your case and I stated mine. I see your point in the graphic update but it really just all depends on if he's looking for the NOW or the LATER. Quick fix or overhaul?
December 21, 2008 3:10:35 PM

wait till march, prices will shift, and seeing as new cards will be released, and should force prices down... also with the release of the new CPus it should again drive prices down.

Prices will only keep going down:)  they can't really go up (it happens sometimes:p , but meh).
December 21, 2008 3:12:16 PM

thers a HD3850 for agp at tiger direct, $134
December 21, 2008 3:14:14 PM

mighty442 said:
Look before things get all heated and puffed up the bottom line is that an upgraded is needed. You gave him one opinion and I gave him and alternate opinion, so we don't agree. So what? I didn't stomp all of your original suggestion like you did mine. You stated your case and I stated mine. I see your point in the graphic update but it really just all depends on if he's looking for the NOW or the LATER. Quick fix or overhaul?


I'm not stomping on anything, your opinion upgrade the monitor is temporary faulty. Its like saying well put Steel on my car before I get the new 600 HP engine to back it up.

You stated your opinion but it has no logic. It would be completely different, if you said, well do the upgrade and then your ready for a bigger screen. But your making the poor guy update his Monitor to something the 3650 can't do properly...

Thats why I'm just venting.

So is yours a quick fix? No its a different route. You can't run before you walk.
December 21, 2008 3:15:54 PM

travismontana said:
ok so get a better video card and ram for now until I save up for a new rig? or should I buy the new motherboard combo that comes with a gig and a amd 64x2 core cpu? like i said I dont have alot of money right now but by march I will enough to get a new system like a bare bone kit from tigerdirect or gearxs.


Look before me and Liquid start to get all technical with our facts and geek **** the bottom line is the two choices you want to make. So your first choice of ram and video card would be my suggestion cause it would be the cheapest way to go and give you immediate results. Your second choice of motherboard/cpu/ram is better but will be more expensive since you'll have to get a video card. You should go the first route and then save up a bit and do the second route right with a good MB/CPU/RAM/Graphic combo that will fit your needs for now and the future. Plus hey, you can be able to get that bigger screen.
December 21, 2008 3:17:39 PM

someone just emailed me and said that the ati POWERCOLOR HD2600XT 512M AGP Radeon HD 2600XT 512MB is better and got a better bench mark rating than the hd 3650. I just want to be able to use my computer for some games and programs, nothing fancy just dont want to be running slow, I know the agp is old but it still runs the games pretty fast and smooth.
December 21, 2008 3:17:55 PM

travismontana said:
thers a HD3850 for agp at tiger direct, $134


See thats really exp, I've seen a 4850 512, for around 150$ after 20$ MIR which can alot more than double this card. Compared to the 4850.
December 21, 2008 3:19:53 PM

travismontana said:
someone just emailed me and said that the ati POWERCOLOR HD2600XT 512M AGP Radeon HD 2600XT 512MB is better and got a better bench mark rating than the hd 3650. I just want to be able to use my computer for some games and programs, nothing fancy just dont want to be running slow, I know the agp is old but it still runs the games pretty fast and smooth.


They exchange blows but, the 2600 XT can be found for 70$ if you look hard enough, that would be a good option. I personally would do upgrade, but if its just for 1 or 2 games, and you bare lowering graphics in certain cases then that card would do well.
December 21, 2008 3:22:13 PM

mighty442 said:
Look before me and Liquid start to get all technical with our facts and geek **** the bottom line is the two choices you want to make. So your first choice of ram and video card would be my suggestion cause it would be the cheapest way to go and give you immediate results. Your second choice of motherboard/cpu/ram is better but will be more expensive since you'll have to get a video card. You should go the first route and then save up a bit and do the second route right with a good MB/CPU/RAM/Graphic combo that will fit your needs for now and the future. Plus hey, you can be able to get that bigger screen.


Yes by all means cripple your gaming experience, for a couple of months...your saying as though monitors don't get cheaper. I'd like to point out that he doesn't have the 3650 or 2600 XT yet...upgrading the monitor will kill the COD experience...Like I said I have no AA on my laptop 9700M GTX and I can do 40 fps up to 80 fps...heavy action and big areas around 30 fps. 1440x900
December 21, 2008 3:26:34 PM

ok im just looking to see on some cards now newegg has a POWERCOLOR Radeon HD 3850 AG3850 512MD3-P Video Card for $81 but its a open box. only the card no adapters or anything. then theres a nvidia 7600gs for the same price, then th hd 3650 is 88, so im just looking to see, nvidia vs ati and whats the better card to get.since my power supply is only 400 watts
December 21, 2008 3:28:11 PM

no no just 3650 or 2600 XT, not the 7600 GS, my friend has that card...terrible card. If you want good graphics...well the best AGP graphics.
December 21, 2008 3:29:36 PM

L1qu1d said:
Yes by all means cripple your gaming experience, for a couple of months...your saying as though monitors don't get cheaper.


Wow dude, seriously, listen to what the OP is saying. He's not looking to do anything fancy. He just wants to up his stuff a bit. Everything gets freaking cheaper of course. You really got to chill dude, it's not a competition we both want to help the OP out. Oh and before you start going "wha, wha, wha, my opinon is better then yours". I'll just say "sure man" and just agree with you before you start deluding the thread with to much info.
December 21, 2008 3:39:48 PM

mighty442 said:
Wow dude, seriously, listen to what the OP is saying. He's not looking to do anything fancy. He just wants to up his stuff a bit. Everything gets freaking cheaper of course. You really got to chill dude, it's not a competition we both want to help the OP out. Oh and before you start going "wha, wha, wha, my opinon is better then yours". I'll just say "sure man" and just agree with you before you start deluding the thread with to much info.


Granted he doesn't want anything fancy, but he wants to upgrade his card....and he has a 17inch what do you think will happen on a bigger monitor? Seriously?

I'm not saying mine is better than yours...because your opinion makes no sense...so technically there is no opinion



Remember this is the DDR3 version which is faster.

Thats COd2 which is the early COD4 engine (same engine, but upgrade).

So now tell me why, upgrade to a monitor thats clearly going to be atleast 1680x1050 (or 1080) will cripple his current card...? Remember he doesn't have the 2600 XT or 3650 yet you kno

X1650 Pro DDR2....not even 3.

He needs a new card. Thats a definate.

Now please, if your goin to help the OP, don't talk out of your @ss.
December 21, 2008 3:59:10 PM

L1qu1d said:
Now please, if your goin to help the OP, don't talk out of your @ss.


I won't, I'll just let you talk out of yours. You seem to be really good at it.
December 21, 2008 4:01:40 PM

Good 1? Honestly you have nothing to say, don't say anything at all. You make about as much sense as your upgrade your monitor theory.

Think before you speak. Your advice would be helpful after he actually has something that can run it properly.

Good joke though, really fresh. I can tell that you thought of it before:) 

P.S

Look up the expression, Pulling things out of ur @ss. It means to present information out of nowhere. I believe I had evidence. So then the expression doesn't fit for me. And Please stay away from my @ss, ppl frown upon that:) 
December 21, 2008 4:11:55 PM

ok at newegg the powercolor hd2600xt is 60, and the 3650 is 88 and the 3850 is 82. now from ati site the hd3850 needs 550 watts or higher so I guess id I get the 2600xt this will boost from my x1650 I have.
a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2008 4:15:53 PM

For a TEMPORARY solution, itll do best using your current rig, without either investing more money which will be wasted later, or a better card, which also will be wasted later. I wouldnt get the open box.
December 21, 2008 4:20:57 PM

well The hd2600xt would be ok since I have 20 in credit with newegg and the wife is spending the rest on me for a xmas present so it wont break the bank at all. so I do appreciate all you guys have told me, this is the best site for answers. thank you so much, feb/march is when I will buy the combo or bare bones kit with dual core and ddr2 memory with pcie x16 2.0
December 21, 2008 4:21:36 PM

3850 is good too, if found cheap thats a really good card. I actually forgot about the 3850, thats a decent card, and would do you wonders for the COD series.
Like Jaydee said, if its Temporary the 2600 XT is amazing, but if you want to stay till around summer (give or take) or commit longer the 3850 would be better. and you found it pretty cheap, but needs a higher PSU:) 

Well i'm off to grab some last minute Christmas shopping (PS3 games :p ).

Jaydee has a ton of knowledge he can probably help you better than me for budget options.

Good luck.
a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2008 4:26:25 PM

Yea, agreed, a 3850 found cheap is THE best agp card ever made, low-mid compared to todays best, and at your res, would play most games with eye candy on. The 2600XT isnt the best, but for a cheap temporary solution, and being stuck on agp, itll at least do the job, tho you may have to sacrifice in game settings
December 21, 2008 4:31:06 PM

yeah but a power supply adds at least 30 ontop of the 88, I guess the 2600xt will have to do, and that card should be able to handle the games better than the x1650 pro since the 2600xt has 120 pipelines and the 1650 has 12
December 21, 2008 4:35:05 PM

You could wait and try to get $500 and then you'll be able to build a decent and complet rig.

this will include new cpu/mb/ram/video/psu and maybe case/hdd...

so you'll be able to get a decent c2d + 4gb of ram and a hd4830 for you current monitor and you'll have a very big improvement compare to what you have right now...
December 21, 2008 4:40:32 PM

ok found this for 44.00 Asus ATI Radeon HD3450 256MB DVI/VGA/TV-Out AGP Video Card
is this better than the 2600xt?
December 21, 2008 4:41:24 PM

this is the spec for the hd3450

Mfr Part Number: AH3450/HTP/256M
Chipset: Radeon HD 3650
Engine Clock: 600 MHz
Video Memory: 256MB DDR2
Memory Clock: 800 MHz
Memory Interface: 64-bit
Bus: AGP 8X
RAMDAC: 400 MHz
Max. DVI Resolution: 2048 x 1536
Connectors: VGA, DVI, TV-out (HDTV ready)
Thermal: Fansink
Support HDCP - High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection
Support Unified Video Decoder (UVD) for Blu-ray and HD DVD
Support Microsoft DirectX 10.1 Shader Model 4.1 and OpenGL 2.0
Package: Retail
December 21, 2008 4:55:20 PM

Im going to get a new rig in feb/march, but for now I just want to upgrade this rig becaus eitll be my wifes computer and hers will be our daughters computer.
December 21, 2008 4:55:59 PM

3450 is basically as strong as an integrated. My gf has the 3470 in her laptop, and its a terrible card. Don't do it.

it can barely do Source.

The 2600 XT is alot better.
December 21, 2008 4:58:43 PM

the 3450 is about the same as a x1600... so your x1650 is better...
December 21, 2008 6:24:35 PM

just to ask what is a low profile video card
December 21, 2008 6:32:54 PM

whats better the hd2600 xt or the hd 2600 pro?
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